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Author Topic: Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?  (Read 3127 times)

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Offline jmid

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Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
« on: September 25, 2013, 08:14:05 PM »
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  • http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/is-pope-francis-a-modernist/

    I have little doubt that the title to this piece pretty much guarantees that the majority of Cotton Candy Catholics won’t even bother to read it. You see, for those who prefer to dwell in that fairy tale version of Catholicland wherein nary a crisis endures, the very question alone is like a serial killer making a cameo appearance in a child’s bedtime story.
    Even so, it is an important, and eminently fair question for well-grounded Catholics to ask nonetheless.

    This, however, raises yet another crucially important question, to whom shall we turn for an answer?

    I can think of no more qualified authority than Pope St. Pius X and his magnificent Encyclical, Pascendi Dominici Gregis.

    We’ll begin with a look at the more “modernistic” public statements and acts of Pope Francis, and then from there, we will measure them against the timeless wisdom of Pope St. Pius X.

    While there are any number of topics one might examine in this effort, I’ve chosen to consider what is perhaps the most basic of all; namely, Pope Francis’ treatment of religion in general.

    On the first full day of his papacy, the Holy Father raised a very large red flag during his audience with some 6,000 journalists and their families in Paul VI Hall, at the conclusion to which he decided to refrain from offering his Apostolic Blessing by making the sign of the Cross over the attendees while invoking the Blessed Trinity.

    Why? In the pope’s own words, the Holy Father decided not to behave as Christ’s Vicar is expected to behave simply “out of respect for the consciences” of non-Catholics.

    With this being the case, no one should have been surprised when, during his first Apostolic visit outside of Rome (to Lampedusa) the Holy Father extended his best wishes to Muslims about to begin Ramadan, an observance prescribed in the Qur’an to “magnify” the false god, Allah, telling them, “I trust it will bear abundant spiritual fruit.”

    More recently, on August 7th, Pope Francis offered this gem as reported by CNS:

    “Do you need to convince the other to become Catholic? No, no, no! Go out and meet him, he is your brother. This is enough. Go out and help him and Jesus will do the rest.”
    On September 10th at the Jesuit refugee service in Rome, Pope Francis said to the diverse gathering of assorted heathens and heretics:

    Each of you, dear friends, carries a life story that speaks of drama and war, of conflict, often linked to international politics. But each of you carry above all a richness of humanity and religion, a richness to be welcomed, not feared. Many of you are Muslims, of other religions, and have come from different countries, from different situations. We must not be afraid of the differences! Fraternity makes us discover that they are a treasure, a gift for everyone! We live in fraternity!  (The original text is available in Italian on the Holy See’s website.)
    Let’s recap:

    From his very first day as Roman Pontiff, Pope Francis demonstrated that he is at great pains to avoid in any way offending the practitioners of the world’s many false religions, as if their version of “truth” is as of much dignity before the Lord as that which He entrusted to His Church.
    In addressing Muslims, who worship a false god, plainly rejecting Our Lord Jesus Christ, Pope Francis encouraged them to persist in their erroneous practices, and even went so far as to suggest that such would be blessed by the Lord whom he represents as Vicar.
    Pope Francis has made clear his belief that there is no need to call others to convert to the one true faith as it can be found in the Holy Catholic Church alone.
    Pope Francis maintains that religious diversity, with all of its contradictory and irreconcilable doctrines, is a gift to be celebrated. Though he stopped short of explicitly proclaiming from whence such “gifts” are bestowed, one can only presume that he imagines that these false religions spring from God Himself!
    Fortunately, even though Pope St. Pius X is a blessed member of the Church Triumphant, still he is able to evaluate and comment upon this situation through the timeless wisdom imparted in Pascendi Dominici Gregis.

    Following is but a small sampling of what this great Pontiff, whose papacy was dedicated to “restoring all things in Christ,” has to say:

    And with what right will Modernists deny the truth of an experience affirmed by a follower of Islam? With what right can they claim true experiences for Catholics alone? Indeed Modernists do not deny but actually admit, some confusedly, others in the most open manner, that all religions are true. That they cannot feel otherwise is clear. For on what ground, according to their theories, could falsity be predicated of any religion whatsoever? …  For they heap such praise and bestow such public honour on the teachers of these errors [false religions] as to give rise to the belief that their admiration is not meant merely for the persons, who are perhaps not devoid of a certain merit, but rather for the errors which these persons openly profess and which they do all in their power to propagate.
    So, back to our question: Is Pope Francis a modernist?

    The answer, according not to me, but to Pope St. Pius X, is yes.

    Now, while Pascendi states very well that modernism is “the synthesis of all heresies,” it is necessary to distinguish between material heresy and formal heresy.

    Material heresy concerns those who espouse, in ignorance, heretical propositions. Formal heresy concerns those who, aware of what must be believed, deliberately and with full knowledge openly deny said truths. Identifying the latter constitutes a subjective judgment; the former, simple observation of objective reality.

    For our part, we must content ourselves with the objective. In the present case, the only conclusion that one can reasonably draw is that Pope Francis is indeed a modernist.

    So, what shall we, members of the Household of God, do with this knowledge?

    Well, on an individual basis, I suppose that all depends on how “grown up” one is in the Faith.

    The little ones, who are not yet prepared for solid food, haven’t the wherewithal to even recognize that a problem exists. Others, who are somewhat more mature in the Faith, are so taken with the false idea that Daddy can never be wrong, that they will rush to defend him at every turn, regardless of how outrageous his behavior might be. Still others in the household are informed enough to see the problem, but are too weak to confront it, choosing instead to profess to “keeping their eye on the prize,” essentially sticking their fingers in their ears and humming “Amazing Grace” in the hope that it will all just go away.

    The smallest number of those among us, however, will look without fear at the bitter reality that papa is drunk on modernism, and his reckless behavior is so dangerous that it threatens not only those who dwell within the Household of God, but even those who wander in darkness beyond its walls.

    Among them, a relative few intrepid souls will do everything in their power to warn the others, both within and without, taking bullets and arrows and all manner of artillery simply for daring to proclaim the immutable truths of the Faith that alone can assure our salvation.

    It’s a thankless job, this, but someone has to do it.



    Offline pickoverthecliff

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 09:56:27 PM »
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  • Offline Ladislaus

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 09:48:26 AM »
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  • Does a bear poop in the woods?

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 09:54:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does a bear poop in the woods?


    I would normally reply with, "Is the Pope Catholic?" That would be ironic, though, wouldn't it? Maybe it should be changed to, "Is the putative Pope Catholic?"
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline OHCA

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 10:06:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does a bear poop in the woods?


    I would normally reply with, "Is the Pope Catholic?" That would be ironic, though, wouldn't it? Maybe it should be changed to, "Is the putative Pope Catholic?"


    But the appropriate reply would be.....  (Oops--I'm not in the crisis forum).


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 11:57:23 AM »
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  • I was thinking the same thing.  

    Is Pope Francis an outright heretic?

    Or is Pope Francis simply a full-fledged modernist?  

    I'm reading Pope St. Pius X's encyclical "On Modernism" and some passages seem to describe the post-Vatican II conciliarist church so clearly that some future "historian" is going to claim that the encyclical on modernism is a forgery written after the fact.  I'm particularly thinking of paragraph 38 (I don't have anything in front of me right now).  


    Offline claudel

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 12:27:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    … I would normally reply with, "Is the Pope Catholic?" …


    This is the greatest contribution to the intellectual wealth of nations of the half century of Vatican II conciliar catholicism: that "Is the pope Catholic?" has been transformed from a rhetorical question to a live one.

    Offline Boloki

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 01:02:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: claudel
    Quote from: Charlemagne
    … I would normally reply with, "Is the Pope Catholic?" …


    This is the greatest contribution to the intellectual wealth of nations of the half century of Vatican II conciliar catholicism: that "Is the pope Catholic?" has been transformed from a rhetorical question to a live one.


    I would like to see how someone like you, a (supposedly) intelligent person, who likes to write more "sophisticated" than usual and likes to parade his lexica around, answers when faced with the specter of sedevacantism.

    Let's see where all that "intelligence" and bravado goes.


    Offline claudel

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 03:29:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Boloki
    Quote from: claudel
    Quote from: Charlemagne
    … I would normally reply with, "Is the Pope Catholic?" …


    This is the greatest contribution to the intellectual wealth of nations of the half century of Vatican II conciliar catholicism: that "Is the pope Catholic?" has been transformed from a rhetorical question to a live one.


    I would like to see how someone like you, a (supposedly) intelligent person, who likes to write more "sophisticated" than usual and likes to parade his lexica around, answers when faced with the specter of sedevacantism.

    Let's see where all that "intelligence" and bravado goes.


    This comment of yours, which is compounded of ignorance and venom in equal parts, speaks far more eloquently than I ever could of how worthless have been your "contributions" to this site.

    Offline Matto

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 03:35:19 PM »
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  • Of course Pope Francis is a modernist. Of course Pope Francis is a heretic. All of the popes (or anti-popes if you prefer) since John XXIII were modernist heretics. This is nothing new.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 03:45:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    I was thinking the same thing.  

    Is Pope Francis an outright heretic?

    Or is Pope Francis simply a full-fledged modernist?  

    I'm reading Pope St. Pius X's encyclical "On Modernism" and some passages seem to describe the post-Vatican II conciliarist church so clearly that some future "historian" is going to claim that the encyclical on modernism is a forgery written after the fact.  I'm particularly thinking of paragraph 38 (I don't have anything in front of me right now).  



    This is something I have been contemplating as well.

    I thought the OP explained that being a modernist is heretical (in other words the question isn't the two you offered).  I think once we decide that Francis is a modernist, then the question we need to ask is Is he a formal or material heretic?  Is Francis intentionally heretical?  I tend to think that Francis is a product of Vatican II...moreso than all of the other conciliar popes as he was ordained under the New Rite.  He has drank the cool aid for way too long and although a material heretic, I would argue not a formal heretic.  The real heresy is Vatican II itself.  I think the formal heretics are those who created Vatican II.

    Not sure if that makes sense but it's just something I have been thinking about as well.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 03:52:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: jmid

    More recently, on August 7th, Pope Francis offered this gem as reported by CNS:

    “Do you need to convince the other to become Catholic? No, no, no! Go out and meet him, he is your brother. This is enough. Go out and help him and Jesus will do the rest.”



    First of all, great post OP.

    Second, how did I miss this quote?

    Third, as great as this post was it nauseated me.  I mean isn't it a slap in the face of those who did make the jump to Catholicism (not to mention those who DIED for the Faith)?

    Welp, I guess I didn't need to do it after all!  /sarcasm
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Boloki

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 04:32:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: claudel
    Quote from: Boloki
    Quote from: claudel
    Quote from: Charlemagne
    … I would normally reply with, "Is the Pope Catholic?" …


    This is the greatest contribution to the intellectual wealth of nations of the half century of Vatican II conciliar catholicism: that "Is the pope Catholic?" has been transformed from a rhetorical question to a live one.


    I would like to see how someone like you, a (supposedly) intelligent person, who likes to write more "sophisticated" than usual and likes to parade his lexica around, answers when faced with the specter of sedevacantism.

    Let's see where all that "intelligence" and bravado goes.


    This comment of yours, which is compounded of ignorance and venom in equal parts, speaks far more eloquently than I ever could of how worthless have been your "contributions" to this site.


    That's nice, but you didn't answer the question.

    Offline Kreuzritter1945

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 04:58:05 PM »
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  • Bergoglio isn't even pope. How can a pope be modernist?

    Offline duck2050

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    Is Pope Francis a Modernist ?
    « Reply #14 on: September 26, 2013, 06:54:19 PM »
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  • Is Pope Francis an outright heretic?

    Or is Pope Francis simply a full-fledged modernist?  




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