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Author Topic: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson  (Read 1697 times)

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Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2020, 11:48:11 PM »
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  • Quote
                                                             



    ^--------------------





    I guess for some here on CathInfo, their favorite song is “My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys Dead Protestants”

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 10:23:44 AM »
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  •                                                          
    Feeneyism is a heresy
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 10:37:09 AM »
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  • From the Catechism “My Catholic Faith”

    Q. How can persons who are not members of the Catholic Church be saved?
    A. Persons who are not members of the Catholic Church can be saved if, through no fault of their own they do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but they love God and try to do
    His will, for in this way they are connected with the Church by desire.
    1. God condemns no man except for grave sin. Therefore He will not condemn those who through no fault of their own are unaware of His command to belong to the True Church, provided they serve Him faithfully according to their conscience, have a sincere desire to do His will in all things, and therefore implicitly wish to become members of His Church. They are members of the Church, in desire.
    A baptized Protestant, of Protestant parents, lives all his life a Protestant without ever having a doubt that he is in the wrong. Before death he makes an act of perfect contrition for the sins he has committed. Such a man will be saved, for he dies in the state of grace.
    Salvation and the Catholic Church
    151
    "KNOW GOD BETTER TO LOVE HIM MORE”
    2. It is possible for one that has never even heard of Jesus Christ to be saved, for God “wishes all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim.
    2:4) and “Christ died for all” (2 Cor. 5:15). In order that such a one may be saved, it is required that he observe the natural law; with the help of God, everyone having the
    use of reason can do that.
    Whoever then obeys the natural law will be en- lightened by God”
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #18 on: January 23, 2020, 11:01:35 AM »
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  • Banz,

    You forgot about the infallible Papal teaching that to be in the Catholic Church, recognition and submission to the Pope is required.

    Your theoretical good Protestants, buddaheads and jew-boys will be making “imperfect” Acts of contrition until they reconcile that point.

    :incense:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 11:04:06 AM »
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  • Banz,

    You forgot about the infallible Papal teaching that to be in the Catholic Church, recognition and submission to the Pope is required.

    Your theoretical good Protestants, buddaheads and jew-boys will be making “imperfect” Acts of contrition until they reconcile that point.

    :incense:
    You have a simplistic understanding of Catholic teaching which is pretty common around here
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Matto

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 12:46:26 PM »
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  • Protestants go to heaven and Adam's parents were monkeys.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #21 on: January 24, 2020, 11:46:51 PM »
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  • There is a story that Jackson, when in the Mexican War, took time to talk to a priest at one of the Catholic churches there, and inquire about the Faith.

    He could not reconcile himself to the idea of the Pope and the Papacy, so he chose not to convert or inquire further.  

    It is not the custom to use the above prayer for those who do not die as Catholics and are not among the "faithful departed," such as Jackson.  






          
    None of us knows the whole story. There is a possibility that at the end he was saved. While he may have spoken to a priest, who knows what invisible roadblocks there were that prevented his conversion. In the meantime this is what the Baltimore Catechism has to say;
    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #22 on: January 25, 2020, 11:37:39 AM »
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  • Of course, Jackson's internal disposition prior to, and up to, his death is known only between him and God. But lo how some love to contort objective reality in an attempt to save all.  

    After being shot by his own men, Jackson was operated on by Dr. Hunter McGuire.  Because of his injuries, Dr. McGuire had to amputate Jackson's left arm.  Dr. McGuire was Jackson's attending physician until his death roughly a week after the amputation.  Jackson's death, as retold by Dr. McGuire himself:

    Quote
    About daylight on Sunday morning Mrs. Jackson informed him that his recovery was very doubtful, and that it was better that he should be prepared for the worst. He was silent for a moment, and then said: "It will be infinite gain to be translated to Heaven." He advised his wife, in the event of his death, to return to her father's house, and added: "You have a kind and good father, but there is no one so kind and good as your Heavenly Father." He still expressed a hope of his recovery, but requested her, if he should die, to have him buried in Lexington, in the Valley of Virginia. His exhaustion increased so rapidly that at 11 o'clock Mrs. Jackson knelt by his bed and told him that before the sun went down he would be with his Saviour. He replied: "Oh, no; you are frightened, my child; death is not so near; I may yet get well." She fell over upon the bed, weeping bitterly, and told him again that the physicians said there was no hope. After a moment's pause he asked her to call me. "Doctor, Anna informs me that you have told her that I am to die to-day; is it so?" When he was answered, he turned his eyes toward the ceiling and gazed for a moment or two as it in intense thought, then replied: "Very good, very good, it is all right." He then tried to comfort his almost heart-broken wife, and told her that be had a great deal to say to her, but he was too weak.

    Colonel Pendleton came into the room about 1 o'clock, and he asked him, "Who was preaching at headquarters to-day ?" When told that the whole army was praying for him, he replied: "Thank God, they are very kind." He said: "It is the Lord's Day; my wish is fulfilled. I have always desired to die on Sunday."


    His mind now began to fail and wander, and he frequently talked as if in command upon the field, giving orders in his old way; then the scene shifted and he was at the mess-table, in conversation with members of his staff; now with his wife and child; now at prayers with his military family. Occasional intervals of return of his mind would appear, and during one of them I offered him some brandy and water, but he declined it, saying, "It will only delay my departure, and do no good; I want to preserve my mind, if possible, to the last." About half-past one he was told that he had but two hours to live, and he answered again, feebly, but firmly, "Very good, it is all right."


    A few moments before he died he cried out in his delirium, "Order A. P. Hill to prepare for action ! Pass the infantry to the front rapidly! Tell Major Hawks ," then stopped, leaving the sentence unfinished. Presently a smile of ineffable sweetness spread itself over his pale face, and he cried quietly and with an expression as if of relief, "Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees "; and then, without pain or the least struggle, his spirit passed from earth to the God who gave it.

    From: https://americancivilwar.com/south/stonewall_jackson_death.html

    Based upon the foregoing, I see nothing that would suggest Jackson had a change of heart for conversion to the one, true Faith.  Nor do I see anything that would suggest remorse, sorrow or repentance for any mortal sin on his soul--which, as a Protestant, he sure would have been in an objective state of mortal sin for, at a minimum, rejecting the one, true Faith.    


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #23 on: January 25, 2020, 11:48:24 AM »
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  • Of course, Jackson's internal disposition prior to, and up to, his death is known only between him and God. But lo how some love to contort objective reality in an attempt to save all.  

    After being shot by his own men, Jackson was operated on by Dr. Hunter McGuire.  Because of his injuries, Dr. McGuire had to amputate Jackson's left arm.  Dr. McGuire was Jackson's attending physician until his death roughly a week after the amputation.  Jackson's death, as retold by Dr. McGuire himself:

    From: https://americancivilwar.com/south/stonewall_jackson_death.html

    Based upon the foregoing, I see nothing that would suggest Jackson had a change of heart for conversion to the one, true Faith.  Nor do I see anything that would suggest remorse, sorrow or repentance for any mortal sin on his soul--which, as a Protestant, he sure would have been in an objective state of mortal sin for, at a minimum, rejecting the one, true Faith.    
    Completely disagree. Everything from that account of his death seems to suggest that Christ was on his mind before death. We can hope that he made an Act of Contrition for his sins( which is what is necessary in the case of a non-Catholic before death) If he rejected Catholicism without understanding it and had no doubts about his beliefs, he would not be culpable for doing so
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #24 on: January 25, 2020, 12:13:58 PM »
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  • Completely disagree. Everything from that account of his death seems to suggest that Christ was on his mind before death.

    I'm sure Christ is on the mind of many a Protestant. For example, my Protestant buddy who attends a stadium-style mega-church is always talking about how much he loves Jesus; I suppose he's saved now, too.  I guess I'll curtail my efforts to bring him back to the Catholic church (which was where he was baptized). 

    You seem to be suggesting that it all it takes to become Catholic is to have Christ on one's mind.

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #25 on: January 25, 2020, 12:25:09 PM »
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  • I'm sure Christ is on the mind of many a Protestant. For example, my Protestant buddy who attends a stadium-style mega-church is always talking about how much he loves Jesus; I suppose he's saved now, too.  I guess I'll curtail my efforts to bring him back to the Catholic church (which was where he was baptized).  

    You seem to be suggesting that it all it takes to become Catholic is to have Christ on one's mind.
    No. I’d say most Prots today are probably damned because they don’t follow the natural law( with the contraception and LGBT) If a baptized Prot lives according to the natural law and makes an Act of Contrition with true sorrow for his sins before death( not knowing that the Catholic Church is the true Church and not having any doubts about his beliefs) he is a member of the Church by desire and will be saved.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Happy Birthday Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
    « Reply #26 on: January 25, 2020, 02:53:56 PM »
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  • This is a good exchange, comparing three theological positions.

    As usual, Poche preaches the newChurch doctrine, specifically the heresy of universal salvation, where sincerity is the key virtue for entry into Heaven.

    Banz uses a more qualified version to get misinformed Protestants in through the Heavenly gates.

    But like the “10 Virgins”, good intentions don’t cut it.

    Bonaventure speaks of the true, narrow path, which is belief in the Catholic Faith and water baptism, the words of Our Lord.

    Any quirky exception, would require the assistance of the “Gatekeeper of Heaven”, which is Our Lady.

    Calling upon her at the hour of one’s death is her special license, and then there is hope.  

    In reading General Jackson’s deathbed account, one can only feel sorrow.  He knew of Catholic Chaplains under his command.  Redemptorist Father James Sheeran rode to battle with him.

    His account of General Jackson can be found in: “The cινιℓ ωαr Diary of Father James Sheeran”.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi