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Author Topic: Is it right to lay hands on daughter when they do wrong  (Read 6068 times)

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Offline sedevacantist3

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Is it right to lay hands on daughter when they do wrong
« on: January 23, 2020, 06:50:30 AM »
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  • I had a little scuffle with my 15 year old yesterday and am thinking if I should have reacted better. Basically the discussion was concerning a gαy colleague of my wife, I had made a derogatory comment, the word freak was mentioned in which my daughter argued I was being mean. After I explained how this lifestyle they lead is unacceptable to God she persisted in arguing with me in s disrespectful manner which for me crossed a line, I grabbed her by the neck for a second which made her cry, i kind of lost my cool for a bit


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 07:02:17 AM »
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  • I had a little scuffle with my 15 year old yesterday and am thinking if I should have reacted better. Basically the discussion was concerning a gαy colleague of my wife, I had made a derogatory comment, the word freak was mentioned in which my daughter argued I was being mean. After I explained how this lifestyle they lead is unacceptable to God she persisted in arguing with me in s disrespectful manner which for me crossed a line, I grabbed her by the neck for a second which made her cry, i kind of lost my cool for a bit

    Just one man's opinion (and coming from one who has made many parenting mistakes):

    Well it certainly was no mortal sin, if that's what you were worrying about.

    As for the appropriateness, well, I would say that strictly speaking, you have the parental right to do what you did.

    But at 15, it may not be the most productive reaction (or who knows: It could be that she will recall this episode and never speak that way to you again).

    I know that Fr. Beck (SSPX) gave a series of parenting classes which were videotaped and put onto DVD about 10-15 years ago, an
    d they were excellent.  One point he made was (paraphrasing from distant memory) corporal punishment should be rare -perfectly legit, but rare- and even then, only for toddlers.
    You seem to pass the "rare" test, as this was obviously our of character for you.

    But corporal punishment loses effectiveness on older children, because they fear it less than other types of punishment (particularly, losing privileges).

    Anyway, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it (if you were).  If your daughter is "daddy's little girl" most of the time, she secretly probably feels worse about the incident than you do.
    Keep in mind I could be wrong about everything I just said.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 08:07:21 AM »
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  • I grabbed her by the neck
    Your daughter will never forget her father grabbing her by the neck.  You have scared her for life.  Pray she doesn't marry someone who treats her thusly.

    Sean Johnson is a sick dude for thinking it's alright ("I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it"). He is absolutely dead wrong.  It is child abuse, no matter how you slice it.

    Teens can be a handful but parents are to be protectors, not aggressors.

    A 15 year old is a young lady.  She should be thought of and treated as such.

    I recommend you apologize to her and explain you were in the wrong to touch her in such a way and she should never accept anyone doing such to her in the future.

    Next time, send her to her room until you calm down and can talk with her in a reasonable tone.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 08:44:27 AM »
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  • Your daughter will never forget her father grabbing her by the neck.  You have scared her for life.  Pray she doesn't marry someone who treats her thusly.

    Sean Johnson is a sick dude for thinking it's alright ("I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it"). He is absolutely dead wrong.  It is child abuse, no matter how you slice it.

    Teens can be a handful but parents are to be protectors, not aggressors.

    A 15 year old is a young lady.  She should be thought of and treated as such.

    I recommend you apologize to her and explain you were in the wrong to touch her in such a way and she should never accept anyone doing such to her in the future.

    Next time, send her to her room until you calm down and can talk with her in a reasonable tone.
    Yes, you're absolutely right. OP's situation is not one to warrant that at all.

    There should absolutely, positively, not be a second time.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 08:57:59 AM »
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  • Your daughter will never forget her father grabbing her by the neck.  You have scared her for life.  Pray she doesn't marry someone who treats her thusly.

    Sean Johnson is a sick dude for thinking it's alright ("I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it"). He is absolutely dead wrong.  It is child abuse, no matter how you slice it.

    Teens can be a handful but parents are to be protectors, not aggressors.

    A 15 year old is a young lady.  She should be thought of and treated as such.

    I recommend you apologize to her and explain you were in the wrong to touch her in such a way and she should never accept anyone doing such to her in the future.

    Next time, send her to her room until you calm down and can talk with her in a reasonable tone.

    Talk about jumping to conclusions!

    All the OP said was that he grabbed her by the neck: He made no comments regarding whether he grabbed her from front or back of neck; squeezed or not; flung her around from this hold or not; etc).

    You seem to presume he grabbed her in a violent way.

    Heck, public school teachers grab kids by the neck (and the kids aren’t suffering trauma from it, and the parents aren’t suing for child abuse).

    For all we know, the OP calmly put his hand around the back of her neck, and exerting minimal pressure, told her in a low voice that she should not talk to him that way.

    You are presuming something much more extreme (rash judgment), and then impugning the character (me) of those giving the benefit of the doubt.

    You are very wrong to do so.

    Until you have more facts, you have no ability to judge rightly in this case (which is why my own response began and ended with “I could be very wrong”):

    I made the Catholic benefit of the doubt, whereas you jumped (with insufficient data) to “It was life-scarring child abuse.”

    I can understand this overreaction if you yourself have been the victim of child abuse, but if in fact the facts and circuмstances of the case were such as you presume them to be (ie., grabbing in a violent way), I presume the OP would not need to ask the question on a forum for something he would know was wrong.

    As an aside, if you re-read my post, you won’t find me saying that which you impute you me (ie., “Sean Johnson is a sick dude for thinking it’s alright.”), or if you disagree, please quote my words saying it’s alright!

    I just didn’t jump down his throat like you did; if the guy didn’t already feel bad about it, he wouldn’t have posted the thread in the first place.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 09:49:39 AM »
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  • Why does your wife have a gαy colleague in the first place?
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 10:42:19 AM »
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  • Sede3:
     "[She] crossed a line"
     "I grabbed her by the neck"
     " i kind of lost my cool for a bit"
     
     All these indicate child abuse. You, unfortunately, lost an ounce, or more, of respect in your daughter's eyes. A father is PROTECTOR, not abuser. She will marry what she sees in her father. Apologize and control yourself in the future.
     

     SJ:
     "...you have the parental right to do what you did."

    It doesn't matter where on the neck he grabbed her.  Grabbing any child by the neck is not corporal punishment.  It is child abuse.  No parent has the right to abuse their children.
     

     Bellatori:
     "My mother used to whoop my butt with a wooden spoon."

     See the key word here? Not child abuse.
     

     Banezian:
     Good question.
     Also, why is Sede3's wife working?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 11:00:14 AM »
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  • Quote
    "[She] crossed a line"
     "I grabbed her by the neck"
     " i kind of lost my cool for a bit"
     
     All these indicate child abuse.
    They don't indicate anything, except you have an overly-dramatic imagination. 


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 12:32:08 PM »
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  • I should point out that the title of this topic does not correspond with the opening post.  Your daughter most certainly did something wrong.  She was disrespectful to you, her father.  Her violation of the Fourth Commandment had to be dealt with severely.  I don't know, specifically, how you grabbed hold of your daughter and whether it was appropriate or not for the given situation since you did not explain it all very well, but I doubt very much that your wrong, that is, if you were wrong, outweighs her most grievous wrong.

    The questions you should be asking yourself is why your daughter would think arguing with you in a disrespectful manner could ever be acceptable and where she has gotten these perverted notions about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  If there has been any child abuse, it may be how and why these questions are answered, not the brief physical contact.  The people who have accused you of child abuse for that are, probably, themselves, child abusers who are probably leading their children to hell--quite literally.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 01:03:46 PM »
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  • The question isn't whether or not laying your hands on your children is wrong. You're trying to word this as if it's a debate on whether or not corporal punishment is acceptable. But that's not what happened. You did it out of anger, not as a thought out punishment or disciplinary measure. You lost control of your emotions and struck out, and going for the NECK of all places while doing it was very wrong. You should absolutely apologise.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 01:06:15 PM »
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  • Talk about jumping to conclusions!

    All the OP said was that he grabbed her by the neck: He made no comments regarding whether he grabbed her from front or back of neck; squeezed or not; flung her around from this hold or not; etc).

    You seem to presume he grabbed her in a violent way.
    You don't think grabbing someone by the neck in an argument is violent? Try it next time you're in an argument and tell me what happens.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 01:23:27 PM »
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  • Too much jumping to conclusions on this thread.

    1) is it intrinsically wrong for a father to lay hands on his daughter like this?  No.

    2) was it prudent to do so?  Nobody can judge based on what we little know.  It depends not only on the incident itself but also on the entire history of her behavior.  Someone opined, "she'll remember this for life."  Well, depending on how she is in general, maybe she SHOULD remember this for the rest of her life.  This particular comment tried to paint the girl in one-sided manner as a completely innocent victim who did not deserve anything like this.  If she was running her mouth with grave disrespect, some reaction is not only warranted, but it may even be required as the Father's duty.  We don't know the circuмstances.  As for acting out of anger, being angry does not NECESSARILY make something wrong.  I suspect that Our Lord was angry when he scourged the money-changers out of the temple.  Some behaviors are in right justly responded to with anger.

    Depending on the circuмstances involved, the history, etc. this action could range from venial sin ... to some degree of imperfection ... to nothing at all.  It would be hard to argue that it's praiseworthy, but unless it was accompanied by some gravely sinful thought, then it's unlikely to be a grave sin either.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 01:26:00 PM »
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  • You don't think grabbing someone by the neck in an argument is violent? Try it next time you're in an argument and tell me what happens.
     
    Any corporal punishment is violent.  Depending on what the insolent brat actually did and said, a certain degree of violence may in fact have been warranted.  It doesn't sound like she sustained any injuries from this.

    Let the man deal handle this with God and his confessor.

    Offline Ascetik

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 03:12:17 PM »
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  • Why does your wife have a gαy colleague in the first place?
    Asking the real questions here.

    1. Why does your wife have a gαy colleague?
    2. With the above information, it is reasonable to assume, why is your wife working?

    That is totally contrary to traditional Catholic morality unless it is some home-based business. Also, I think what you did would be maybe a venial sin of anger at most. But that's just my personal opinion. Your daughter should not be disrespecting you or defending sodomites.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Is it right to put hands on daughter when they do wrong
    « Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 03:42:30 PM »
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  • Asking the real questions here.

    2. With the above information, it is reasonable to assume, why is your wife working?

    That is totally contrary to traditional Catholic morality unless it is some home-based business

    The thing about people is that sometimes they want to eat (not to mention other expenses like going to the doctor or paying rent or taxes). I have learned a lot in my time as a traditional Catholic. I have learned that it is a sin for a woman to work and it is also a sin to accept government welfare so it would be best for the parents whose husband is not among the top ten percent of wage earners to have as many children as God sends them and allow them all to starve or die of diseases. This would be a good thing because as the children are baptized to let them starve would be to populate heaven since if they had eaten and grown to adulthood they probably would have sinned and been damned.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.