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Author Topic: Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire  (Read 3458 times)

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Offline RomanCatholic1953

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Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2014, 02:02:36 PM »
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  • I remember in reading about Lucy of Fatima asking the Blessed Mother
    about a friend that just died. She was told that the friend is in purgatory
    until the ending of time.
    A child can commit sins deserving purgatory until the end of time,
    and that must be the pain of fire.
    In an another spiritual reading, our Lord allowed a Holy Nun tour hell, and
    she came by a child of ten that was damned for reading bad books,
    and a priest that was damned for taking to many liberties in
    celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
    Real fire was described according to the degree of sin in which the
    soul was damned at the time of death.

    Offline modofac

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #16 on: September 23, 2014, 10:18:38 AM »
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  • Many disputes are semantical ones.  This is one.

    What is 'literal fire'?  If 'literal fire' is the exothermic rapid chemical chain-oxidation of a fuel supply...then for there to be literal fire in Hell, there would need to be material fuel and an oxygen atmosphere.

    I'm not aware that anyone ever intimated that Hell had a wood supply, or air to breathe.  


    So, it would seem that the fire is more akin to the fire that did not consume the burning bush.  It that were 'literal fire', then by definition the bush would have been consumed.  So, better to describe it as 'miraculous fire' which is not subject to the same rules.  

    So be careful tossing around the word 'literal'.


     


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #17 on: September 23, 2014, 11:46:12 AM »
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  • By George, Yes there is a literal Hell And you do not want to go there.
    I would not want to dispute this matter. Nor this conversation up for
    dispute. Case Closed.

    Offline MrYeZe

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #18 on: September 23, 2014, 08:52:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    By George, Yes there is a literal Hell And you do not want to go there.
    I would not want to dispute this matter. Nor this conversation up for
    dispute. Case Closed.


    I never said there wasn't a literal Hell, just that it isn't filled with literal, burning fire that burns your flesh.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV

    Offline modofac

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #19 on: September 23, 2014, 09:25:40 PM »
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  • And I never said there wasn't fire. I wondered if we could call it 'literal' fire if it wasn't consuming fuel.

    Somebody is over-reacting.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #20 on: September 23, 2014, 09:35:11 PM »
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  • It has long been accepted that hell is in the center of the Earth, probably from scripture  "and every knee shall bend in Heaven on earth and under the earth" and purgatory is a suburb of hell (without devils)

    If that is true, the molten lava would cause anything it touches to burst into flame.
    This might also explain the "lake of fire"  As for needing oxygen to burn......well the easrth is full of holes (volcanoes) that could supply it with oxygen.

    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #21 on: September 24, 2014, 02:39:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: modofac
    Many disputes are semantical ones.  This is one.

    What is 'literal fire'?  If 'literal fire' is the exothermic rapid chemical chain-oxidation of a fuel supply...then for there to be literal fire in Hell, there would need to be material fuel and an oxygen atmosphere.


    ^THIS.

    Quote from: modofac
    I'm not aware that anyone ever intimated that Hell had a wood supply, or air to breathe.  

    So, it would seem that the fire is more akin to the fire that did not consume the burning bush.  It that were 'literal fire', then by definition the bush would have been consumed.  So, better to describe it as 'miraculous fire' which is not subject to the same rules.  

    So be careful tossing around the word 'literal'.


    Finally some sense.  Whatever this "fire" is, we know that those who are currently in hell are being tormented by it.  Yet we know that there are no physical bodies in hell ... not until the resurrection.  Consequently, it's probably not the same combustion fire that we know here on earth.  Rather, it's something that can directly afflict and torment the sensible part of the soul, rather than through the intermediary of the body, thereby making it more painful than any fire could be on earth as it burns through the body.  It is clearly, based on Scripture, not just a metaphorical fire caused by spiritual pain, but rather something that causes pain of sense, but in order to directly afflict the sensible part of the soul, it has to be something more or something different in quality from the fire that we have here on earth.  Just as Our Lord's glorified body had different qualities than an ordinary non-risen body, hellfire most likely has some incorporeal aspect to it as well.

    So, I agree that using the term "literal" is problematic.

    No, it's not metaphorical in the sense that purely spiritual pain is referred to as "fire"; it's a true poena sensus (pain of sense) but it must be of some nature as to be able to directly afflict the sensible part of the soul (which is on its own immaterial when separated from the body).

    Offline MrYeZe

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #22 on: September 24, 2014, 05:47:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: modofac
    And I never said there wasn't fire. I wondered if we could call it 'literal' fire if it wasn't consuming fuel.

    Somebody is over-reacting.


    Alright, I mean 'literal' in the sense that it's a substance that constantly burns you, not that it consumes fuel or requires oxygen.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

       -Thomas Aquinas

    "Even if my own father were a heretic, I would gather the wood to burn him"

    -Pope Paul IV


    Offline modofac

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    Is It Really Heresy to Teach that Hell is Not Filled With Literal Fire
    « Reply #23 on: September 24, 2014, 07:24:32 PM »
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  • As Ladislaus points out above, the damned have no bodies as of now, so there is nothing to literally be burned.