Author Topic: Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...  (Read 1486 times)

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Offline Canuk the Lionheart

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Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
« on: November 07, 2011, 03:40:01 PM »
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  • Every year during the Christmas season the local Anglican Cathedral has numerous classical music groups and choirs in to sing carols and whatnot. To be clear, this isn't  Morning or Evenprayer, or any other Anglican service, just classical music which happens to take place in their Cathedral. Is it permissible to attend?

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #1 on: November 07, 2011, 03:46:47 PM »
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  • You shoud check that with a Traditional priest. If it were me I wouldn't attend, but again you should seek guidance from a Traditional priest on that.


    Offline Vladimir

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 09:19:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    You shoud check that with a Traditional priest. If it were me I wouldn't attend, but again you should seek guidance from a Traditional priest on that.


    This attitude is almost rabbinical. Very reminiscent of jews spitting every time they see a cross.

    Can you explain why you wouldn't attend?

    Edit:

    To answer Canuk's question, there is nothing wrong with attending. You do not need to ask a priest. Enjoy the music!



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #3 on: November 07, 2011, 09:22:48 PM »
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  • I don't owe you an explanation, not when you act like that. Your opinion that participating in Protestant services is innocence is ridiculous. I wouldn't attend because it's a Protestant church. But hey, if playing the organ for them is ok...

    Funny how three people agreed with me, so far you're the only one who doesn't. Why am I not surprised.

    Offline Alex

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 09:32:22 PM »
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  • Vladimir might have a point. It is just classical music that is being played - not their religious music. If we can't participate in hearing classical music with Protestants, then we could also say that we can't interact with Protestants at all in this world.

    But I must admit there is a bit of uneasiness that I would feel in the fact that the classical music is held in their church. But when one travels to England and visits all the Protestant cathedrals that are tourist destinations would that be wrong also.

    Logic tells me there is nothing wrong since you are participating in a non-religious activity in their church but my heart at the same time still makes me feel uneasy being in a place of worship of Protestants. A quick in and out would be different than sitting there for an hour or two.

    So, in summary - Maybe yes, maybe no. Ask a priest just in case.

    There is also the consideration of whether the money made from ticket sales to the classical concert will go to the Protestant church. If that is the case, then I would say don't attend because you are putting more money in their pocket to teach and spread their heresies.



    Offline s2srea

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 09:37:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    This attitude is almost rabbinical. Very reminiscent of jews spitting every time they see a cross.

    Can you explain why you wouldn't attend?

    Edit:

    To answer Canuk's question, there is nothing wrong with attending. You do not need to ask a priest. Enjoy the music!


    Vladimir- if Spiritus sounds 'rabbinical', you sound completely modernist. At least Spiritus advises seeking out a Traditional priest. You encourage him to 'just do it' and not seek out a priest... don't you see how that's not the best course of action?

    And likening him to jews who spit when seeing a cross is also very uncharitable. I don't think he said to show up only if he urinated on their building, or to throw feces at the crowd who would attend, did he?

    He simply stated like a good Catholic- "I'm not sure; I would personally err on the side of caution (for what would be wrong if he chose not to go); talk to a priest when in doubt."

    Its like all this stems from the one question you had here a few months back about having to play music at a protestant worship service. People here gave you sound advice,  and even quoted from pre-VII texts for you. You made a mistake (I believe) in going to a Vatican-II condoning FSSP priest. And that seems to be your greatest threat constantly on here. You support SSPX, yet it doesn't seem you have access to one (or at least not to a good one), and unlike Traditional Catholic pharisees, you're the opposite extreme. Its like the Neo-Trads at Fisheaters...

    Offline Vladimir

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #6 on: November 08, 2011, 08:52:11 AM »
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  • While consulting a priest in matters of faith is a good thing to do, the question that Canuk raised does not require a priest to settle. To ask a priest would simply be wasting his time.

    "SS" said that he wouldn't attend based on the grounds that the concert would be held in a Protestant building. You cannot become "infected" by Protestantism by sitting inside a building while listening to classical music. Heresy is not like a physically contagious disease. I wonder if "SS" would object to listening to Handel or Bach because you might get brainwashed by Protestantism?

    Of course, there is nothing wrong with avoiding Protestant churches, but to feel like one is being spiritually assaulted when one simply walks inside one without the intent to participate in their worship is just  pious paranoia.

    Indeed, if you look back a few years ago, I posted my own utter disgust at just having walked into a Protestant church...well skip forward a few years and who knows how many Protestant churches later and the reaction is quite different. It's just a building. Obviously, my attitude towards Protestantism has not changed.


    This is a "Traditional Catholic Forum". The posts of the members should form a picture of traditional Catholicism to at least some extent. However, "SpiritusSanctus"'s (and to SS - yes, sorry for putting your name in quotations once again) post is not an accurate picture - i.e., avoiding a concert simply because it is being held in a protestant church. There's no doubt he has purity of intention, and his zeal for souls is admirable. Unfortunately, this can be at times a misguided zeal.

    In the past, and possibly in the present, there have been underage posters on this forum whose parents harbor some suspicion against traditional Catholicism and have read the posts on this forum to form the basis of their assesment of it; whereupon the said poster(s) have been deprived of the sacraments because of the sometimes misguided, but I would like to believe well-intentioned, opinions of forum members.

    Edit:

    While the comparison to Fisheaters seems unwarranted, I will say in my own defense that I do not consider myself a "neo-trad" and that I believe you would be pressed to find any evidence to support that accusation. Also, because "SS" incessantly claims that I believe that active participation in Protestant worship is OK, I will say once more that I hold to the Church's teaching on this and do not presume to follow my own fancy in this matter.



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #7 on: November 08, 2011, 01:11:41 PM »
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  • Thank you, s2srea.

    Vladimir, no offense, but first of all I am fed up with your cheap shots at my screen-name. I started a thread a week or two ago to clarify why I chose the screen-name and have specifically stated numerous times that I did NOT choose it to imply I am equal to the Holy Ghost. I do not believe such a thing and would be in heresy if I did. How would you like it it I unfairly picked at your screen-name? For instance, instead of calling you Vladimir I could call you "Badimir" or "Bad Vlad" or "neo-Trad Vlad". Such a thing would not be charitable, would it? Precisely why you need to stop picking at my screen-name.

    As to your point, I am sorry to say that you act like a neo-Trad. Your opinion that playing the organ for heretics is ok is ridiculous first of all, because regardless of what you and that liberal-sounding FSSP priest say (yes, there can be and in fact are some liberal priests in the FSSP), playing the organ for Protestants is considered participating in their services. You also completely ignored what I and others here had to say when you asked if what you are doing is ok, only one or two people agreed with you.

    Your opinion that you need not atleast ask a Traditional priest if you are unsure concerns me, but again it comes as no surprise that you would hold such a neo-Trad position given your acceptance of providing Protestants the music they need for their heretical services. You are falling for a trap that many other modernists fall for, you feel what is right. Traditional Catholics listen to their conscience, and seek advice if need-be. They don't feel what is right. That is what non-Catholics (and many Novus Ordo Catholics) do.

    I have seen some troubling beliefs and remarks in your posts lately. Your opinion that labeling people as either Traditional, semi-Trad, Novus Ordo, etc. is wrong is a very alarming comment. It only shows that you're still caught up in Novus Ordo land, that you can be Catholic just by claiming to be and that there are no divisions. No Trads, no Novus Ordites, just Catholics. You will not find yourself labeled as the Trad you claim to be with those highly questionable beliefs.


    Offline LordPhan

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #8 on: November 08, 2011, 01:15:57 PM »
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  • To the OP:

    I think you should ask a good Priest.

    Listening to the music is fine, Listening with the Protestants is fine, the questionable acts would be:

    1)Is is scandalous to enter a Protestant church? Are you legitamizing them? Does it make others believe you are supporting them?

    2) Are you supporting them with money? Do they make money from you? Is your money going to be used to support their heresies?

    These are the questions that make myself and others recommend talking to a Priest, we would never be so bold as to affirm or deny it to you offhand.


    Offline Vladimir

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #9 on: November 08, 2011, 03:00:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    To the OP:

    I think you should ask a good Priest.

    Listening to the music is fine, Listening with the Protestants is fine, the questionable acts would be:

    1)Is is scandalous to enter a Protestant church? Are you legitamizing them? Does it make others believe you are supporting them?

    2) Are you supporting them with money? Do they make money from you? Is your money going to be used to support their heresies?

    These are the questions that make myself and others recommend talking to a Priest, we would never be so bold as to affirm or deny it to you offhand.



    1) While this may or may not be the case, many concerts are advertised as "open to the public" (if they are not, one would not hear of them!) and therefore there is no scandal. Does going to a concert on a college campus legitimize whatever is taught on campus?

    2) Even monetary support does not seem sinful on this occasion, since it is is payment to attend a public event. Is it sinful to pay for a movie ticket or for admission into a fair, etc?


    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus


    Your opinion that you need not atleast ask a Traditional priest if you are unsure concerns me....


    My point is that the question warrants no uncertainty, as its answer can be easily surmised through a brief exercise of common sense.

    Quote
    I have seen some troubling beliefs and remarks in your posts lately.  


     :wink:



    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 08:53:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    My point is that the question warrants no uncertainty, as its answer can be easily surmised through a brief exercise of common sense.


    You certainly aren't using any common sense if you think you should go ahead and do it without atleast checking it with a Traditional priest. I also notice you didn't respond to any of my other points. Typical....


    Offline Vladimir

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    « Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 09:22:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote from: Vladimir
    My point is that the question warrants no uncertainty, as its answer can be easily surmised through a brief exercise of common sense.


    You certainly aren't using any common sense if you think you should go ahead and do it without atleast checking it with a Traditional priest.


    SpiritusSanctus,

    Does one need to consult a priest to seek spiritual direction? Yes. Discernment of spirits? Yes. Marriage? Yes. Etc.

    Does one need to consult a priest to drive to work in the morning? To buy a sandwich at Subway for lunch? To attend a classical music concert?

    Quote
    I also notice you didn't respond to any of my other points. Typical....


    In the words of roscoe, the greatest CathInfo member:

    Ciao baby.



    Offline LordPhan

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    « Reply #12 on: November 08, 2011, 09:36:28 PM »
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  • Quote

    1) While this may or may not be the case, many concerts are advertised as "open to the public" (if they are not, one would not hear of them!) and therefore there is no scandal. Does going to a concert on a college campus legitimize whatever is taught on campus?


    It very well could, it depends on the place. The Church Militant pre-vatican 2 used to boycott places for any offense to God.

    Quote

    2) Even monetary support does not seem sinful on this occasion, since it is is payment to attend a public event. Is it sinful to pay for a movie ticket or for admission into a fair, etc?


    Once again it very well could, I doubt it's mortal, but we should avoid all sins, mortal and venial. Once again the Church Militant would boycott every movie in a theatre if they put even one scandalous movie up to watch. That dosn't mean they'd boycott the movie, they'd boycott EVERY movie at that place. That is why during the 50's most movie theatres would not show scandalous film and why the Church had a censor for movies up until V2.

    Think of how much better the world would be right now if that was still the case.

    John Vennari of Catholic Family News had a conference at my Chapel 7 or so months ago, where he gave 2 lectures, one of them was on the Church Militant pre-V2.




    Offline LordPhan

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    « Reply #13 on: November 08, 2011, 09:38:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vladimir
    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Quote from: Vladimir
    My point is that the question warrants no uncertainty, as its answer can be easily surmised through a brief exercise of common sense.


    You certainly aren't using any common sense if you think you should go ahead and do it without atleast checking it with a Traditional priest.


    SpiritusSanctus,

    Does one need to consult a priest to seek spiritual direction? Yes. Discernment of spirits? Yes. Marriage? Yes. Etc.

    Does one need to consult a priest to drive to work in the morning? To buy a sandwich at Subway for lunch? To attend a classical music concert?

    Quote
    I also notice you didn't respond to any of my other points. Typical....


    In the words of roscoe, the greatest CathInfo member:

    Ciao baby.


    Roscoe is a Sirinite Heretic, that remark gives me great doubts about you.


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    Is it ok to visit an Anglican Cathedral for...
    « Reply #14 on: November 08, 2011, 09:48:45 PM »
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  • Prior to the Vatican Two Revolution, the common Catholic practice was to avoid going into Protestant churches except for grave reasons.

    Of course communicatio in sacris is a mortal sin, no matter where it takes place, but that is an issue that is sometimes unrelated to the issue of entering Prot churches, because communicatio in sacris is mortally sinful no matter where it takes place.

     

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