Author Topic: Insurance (Read 2748 times)

Dolores · « **on:** October 24, 2013, 10:57:12 AM »

I've recently learned that the Amish folk do not purchase insurance because they believe simply in trusting God with their future. I know they are Protestant heretics, but do you think they have something here? Would it be better to simply trust God, and have faith that whatever may come is of His will, rather than purchase insurance that does nothing more than protect what is of this world, and not what is of above?

What do you think?

Zeitun · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2013, 10:59:21 AM »

Why would a Catholic pay money to wealthy Jєωs for the health insurance Ponzi scheme?

Why do Catholics believe that Jєωιѕн health insurance is a better guarantee than the Holy Rosary?

Frances · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2013, 11:00:54 PM »

:confused1:
How does an individual Catholic get out of having even more of his income stolen by the U.S. govt. for failing to purchase insurance? Join the Amish?????? The U.S. bishops are no help. They've thrown the flock to the wolves. Sad to say, there has been no recent guidance from SSPX on this topic, either.

poche · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2013, 11:09:58 PM »

I agree with them. You should trust in God. But if god through His providence provides you with the opportunity to get afforddable insurance then maybe you take advantage of one of the blessings that god gives us.

Cantarella · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2013, 11:33:35 PM »

No insurance for me. I think that the whole insurance business is evil.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2013, 11:43:38 PM »

It's heartbreaking, but I fear going without insurance in the U.S. "healthcare system" is almost like ѕυιcιdє, because we KNOW our bodies are frail, accidents happen, earthquakes, &c. and we know the exorbitant rates just to see a doctor if you have a fever from a simple infection (Visit = $200; antibiotics = $50, best case scenario, one infection).

Jєωs and evil insurance and hospital corporations? Sure. But can we circuмvent it? I don't think so, at least not with a clear conscience. I've run the numbers, and saving even $10K/year (a joke for many of us), with current interest rates, compounded over ten years would pay for ONE artificial hip in 10 years, and that's all. Or it would make a dent in cancer care (but still leave you penniless). Insurance, on the other hand, leaves you with $5K/year in your pocket and at least covers doctor visits, tests we might need (thousands per test, usually), prescriptions, physical therapy, and catastrophic illnesses (stuff over 6 figures). Maybe even dental/ophthalmologist care if you get a good plan.

We have to provide for our family's health to the best of our ability, in whatever era we live in. Healthcare's basically a tax now, anyway, and even Our Lord paid the local tax.

Zeitun · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2013, 12:02:09 AM »

Quote from: Frances

:confused1:
How does an individual Catholic get out of having even more of his income stolen by the U.S. govt. for failing to purchase insurance? Join the Amish?????? The U.S. bishops are no help. They've thrown the flock to the wolves. Sad to say, there has been no recent guidance from SSPX on this topic, either.

The penalties (if they actually ever get enforced) will be withheld from income tax refunds.

Fr. Hewko talks a lot about this issue. Truth is one cannot be a remnant and live in the world. You have to go off grid.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2013, 12:54:56 AM »

We're members of a healthcare cost-sharing ministry. They're mostly Protestant, but since there isn't a Catholic option, it's better than traditional insurance, imo.

They don't cover routine expenses, though. A standard visit to the doctor you have to pay for yourself, but if you find yourself in the hospital for whatever reason, the ministry pays for it. There's a small part which is your "share" ($500), but you get credit for any discount the hospital agrees to give which is most often more than your "share". Coverage for a couple is $300 per month and a family is $450. They paid for the births of our last four children. (Which, incidentally, many an insurance company would not have paid for a birthcenter or homebirth.)

There are lots of other details which I won't go into, but it qualifies as insurance under Obamacare, so if you're looking for such a thing, you can read about it here: http://www.chministries.org

MaterDominici · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2013, 12:59:16 AM »

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

we know the exorbitant rates just to see a doctor if you have a fever from a simple infection (Visit = $200; antibiotics = $50, best case scenario, one infection).

I had strep throat last spring and it wasn't that bad of a hit to the wallet. The doc-in-a-box was $115 and my 2 prescriptions were $15 total. (Plus my random OTC med shopping while I was waiting which cost me another $15.

)

poche · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2013, 01:11:12 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
we know the exorbitant rates just to see a doctor if you have a fever from a simple infection (Visit = $200; antibiotics = $50, best case scenario, one infection).

I had strep throat last spring and it wasn't that bad of a hit to the wallet. The doc-in-a-box was $115 and my 2 perscriptions were $15 total. (Plus my random OTC med shopping while I was waiting which cost me another $15. )

Maybe $145 sin't alot to you but it can be devastating to people without a lot of money. I was with someone who had to have a perscription filled and we went to three pharmacies before we could find one who could fill that perscription. Another time they wanted $125 for a perscription.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2013, 01:17:11 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
we know the exorbitant rates just to see a doctor if you have a fever from a simple infection (Visit = $200; antibiotics = $50, best case scenario, one infection).

I had strep throat last spring and it wasn't that bad of a hit to the wallet. The doc-in-a-box was $115 and my 2 prescriptions were $15 total. (Plus my random OTC med shopping while I was waiting which cost me another $15. )

Maybe $145 sin't alot to you but it can be devastating to people without a lot of money. I was with someone who had to have a perscription filled and we went to three pharmacies before we could find one who could fill that perscription. Another time they wanted $125 for a perscription.

Oh, I know, prescriptions can be crazy. My only point was that the standard visit + antibiotics wasn't quite $250, yet. At least, not here.

Honestly, I "shopped around" for that doctor visit. (In retrospect, I should have let my fingers do the walking.) The first place I stopped was significantly cheaper, but wouldn't take a walk-in that late in the day. The next stop wanted something like $150 to see the doctor. I went to the next town over and was seen for the $115.

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2013, 01:43:18 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
we know the exorbitant rates just to see a doctor if you have a fever from a simple infection (Visit = $200; antibiotics = $50, best case scenario, one infection).

I had strep throat last spring and it wasn't that bad of a hit to the wallet. The doc-in-a-box was $115 and my 2 prescriptions were $15 total. (Plus my random OTC med shopping while I was waiting which cost me another $15. )

WOW! I'm impressed. We have Blue Cross, so out-of-pocket seems fairly cheap for us, too ($35 total, maybe?), but I've been looking at the bills lately, and I was floored how much the doc visit had increased in just five years! Doc blamed his insurance, and government requirements for updated facilities, but really, the doc barely spent 2 minutes with me, was triple-booked as usual. I think the visit was more than $200 because of labs, but couldn't remember exactly. The Z-Pak was cheap with insurance, and it's generic now so even full-price it's $40, but add that good cough syrup stuff (Tussionex? The good stuff) and I assume I'm underestimating costs to call the syrup $10 without insurance. For us, the costs have skyrocketed.

But I've never heard of a healthcare cost-sharing ministry! We're certainly insurance- and doctor-shopping now (since our deductibles became ridiculous last month, which our Blue Cross blamed on Obamacare). And we're looking for cheaper ways to medicate things like strep and the flu.

(I hope God doesn't mind "black market" Rxes and unlicensed doctors, because I can see things going that way real fast. For health care, not for drug-seeking opiate-users.)

StCeciliasGirl · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2013, 02:05:18 AM »

And that's another thing: labs. Labs are pricey, but has anyone else noticed the docs say they "have" to do a CBC for almost any complaint these days? I'm on thyroid stuff and have to have labs every month now

(I think that won't be happening

), but even before that, if I went in with a common condition (UTI, cold, ear ache), they needed labs. Sometimes x-rays. Our family has had 3 CT scans this year. All showed up negative, but two were just to "rule out" things. Like my daughter had the flu, and the docs wanted us to "rule out" a hidden tumor because she'd gone 10 days and was still exhausted. (No fever; just exhausted. You know, the flu.) Our co-pay was $3000. (Well, we hadn't met our deductible at all, so that didn't help matters.) My son got an injury playing sports: CT scan. My husband fell: CT scan. I don't even know that much about what a CT scan tells them, but they seem like 3-D x-rays to me; dangerous. I think you should be spouting blood or something really SERIOUS before the docs call "CT scan".

And what gets me is that for each of those three CT scans, we healed fine without any medical intervention (Tylenol for daughter). If you try to say 'no', they make you feel guilty.

Maybe docs have to protect themselves more now, but I think all these extra labs and tests are a rip-off. Not all of them, but these docs could dig deep and use some common sense and say, "Hey, your kid is recovering from the flu; just give her more electrolytes" or something. Especially when her labs and fever were fine. :really-mad2:

Maybe I'll look into an holistic doctor. Ours looks like a great swami, and is scary to behold, but I think he uses some common sense (as well as "auras" and weird stuff). Of course, insurance won't pay for him.

Ambrose · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2013, 03:42:16 AM »

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

And that's another thing: labs. Labs are pricey, but has anyone else noticed the docs say they "have" to do a CBC for almost any complaint these days? I'm on thyroid stuff and have to have labs every month now (I think that won't be happening ), but even before that, if I went in with a common condition (UTI, cold, ear ache), they needed labs. Sometimes x-rays. Our family has had 3 CT scans this year. All showed up negative, but two were just to "rule out" things. Like my daughter had the flu, and the docs wanted us to "rule out" a hidden tumor because she'd gone 10 days and was still exhausted. (No fever; just exhausted. You know, the flu.) Our co-pay was $3000. (Well, we hadn't met our deductible at all, so that didn't help matters.) My son got an injury playing sports: CT scan. My husband fell: CT scan. I don't even know that much about what a CT scan tells them, but they seem like 3-D x-rays to me; dangerous. I think you should be spouting blood or something really SERIOUS before the docs call "CT scan".

And what gets me is that for each of those three CT scans, we healed fine without any medical intervention (Tylenol for daughter). If you try to say 'no', they make you feel guilty.

Maybe docs have to protect themselves more now, but I think all these extra labs and tests are a rip-off. Not all of them, but these docs could dig deep and use some common sense and say, "Hey, your kid is recovering from the flu; just give her more electrolytes" or something. Especially when her labs and fever were fine. :really-mad2:

Maybe I'll look into an holistic doctor. Ours looks like a great swami, and is scary to behold, but I think he uses some common sense (as well as "auras" and weird stuff). Of course, insurance won't pay for him.

You are right in everything you have said in this thread. The cost of medical care is outrageous. It is not this way in other countries. These costs are bloated because the AMA has a stranglehold on the medical profession, through their powerful lobbying apparatus. State and federal laws are set up to maintain this system, with its endless requirements, all to insure the territory of the doctors and pharmaceutical industry.

It is a sad reality, but many who do not get decent insurance from their employers deliberately keep their income low enough to get on Medicaid. If they worked more, they would lose far more than whatever their salaries would pay them in health care costs.

This is the twisted world that we now live in.

Nadir · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2013, 03:51:56 AM »

My husband thinks like the Amish. We pay no insurance at all. For anything. So far everything is hunky dory!

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

And we're looking for cheaper ways to medicate things like strep and the flu...

Have you thought about garlic, ginger, etc. I rarely ever took my children to the doctor. ~~Maybe~~, um definitely, for a broken arm or something like that. But for so many things they can do no more for you than you can do for yourselves. I think people put too much trust in doctors for things that our parents and grandparents just used their common sense and traditional knowlege for.

Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

(I hope God doesn't mind "black market" Rxes and unlicensed doctors, because I can see things going that way real fast. For health care, not for drug-seeking opiate-users.)

I'm an unlicenced doctor. :wink: so I hope so too!

I thank God that I live in Australia, as far as our health system goes. As I am a pensioner, all my prescription medications come at the cost of $5.80 each (when in Italy I got them free) and our group surgery bulk-bills. That means we have our GP account charged up to the Government.

A visit to the hospital emergency department costs nothing, and as I only go for real emergencies like heart attacks or burst appendix I get to be seen almost immediately.

If I don't get seen to quick smart I do this: :dwarf: