They like to take charge of things in parishes too.  The better to keep informed and to stay in control of everything.  

The problem is getting others to listen to you.

Yes.

I wonder how many of these are actual conscious infiltrators (and what their actual agendas might be) and how many are just sociopaths.  I've noticed very strange people flocking to not only sede and SSPX chapels, but also to Indult Masses.  There's something about the Traditional Mass that attracts not only the devout, pious, and conservative but also imbalanced people or downright weirdos (and, I'm afraid, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as well).

I'm also convinced that the SSPX seminaries have been infiltrated.  I'm not hereby taking a shot at the SSPX.  It just stands to reason.  Enemies of the Church have spent centuries trying to infiltrate the hierarchy, and so now they have absolutely mastered the art.  They could infiltrate the SSPX so fast that our heads would spin.  If they considered the SSPX to be a threat, which I am certain they do, then you can be morally that they have already infiltrated.  You just get a smart polyglot in there and that person when ordained would be practically guaranteed  a leadership position.  And I'm afraid that Archbishop Lefebvre was not always the best judge of character.

This is very distressful and ever mindful of our complete dependence on heaven I am praying my rosary for you, your shepherds and this situation.  I wonder...what would Our Lady do in your position.

I also attend Mass in Spokane, and am familiar with the shepherd there, I have no doubt he probably spoke to this person who was wearing pants in private.  

I must have missed the event Emerentiana is speaking about since I can't imagine who it could be.

I've seen a few women doing yard work in the grotto outside wearing pants, and once in awhile someone painting outside, a project wearing pants, but haven't noticed anyone wearing them inside the church, except for visitors.

 We get many visitors, especially on the weekend, I like to talk to them and encourage them to come back.  One time we had this guy, who was full of tattoos come and visit the chapel on a Saturday while I was cleaning. He started asking me questions about the Christmas Eve Mass schedule so I saw father walking by and put the two together.  

We have this one couple who were not raised Catholic, but they are members of our Church now, the man told me his story. It seems he had this re-occuring dream that he walked into a church.  

Well this one day he and his wife saw the Mount in the distance and wondered what it was, because it looks like a castle in the sky from a distance.  They came up there and wandered into the gift shop, then were invited into the chapel, and when they walked in, he almost passed out because he said, this is exactly the picture in his dream.  Needless to say, they are both Catholic today.  

Sorry I got off topic.

I've met more weirdos in the novus ordo church than any other place I've been.  

Ladislaus,

I have also wondered how much is conscious, organized infiltration versus personality disorders. Maybe it's a combination.

Whatever it is, I do believe this is an important topic because we need to keep our eyes open. For people with children in the home, it is more complex, because you have to make the decision whether to leave or to stay, and which choice will be less disruptive to your children's formation. People with children in traditional schools have a very tough decision. Oftentimes, though, the decision is made for them as they're shown the door.

A few years ago, a new neo-con type of priest suddenly appeared in our chapel, and things changed so quickly it was as if someone had flipped a switch. It took a while to catch on that it was a whole new order, but it was. For years, everyone had gotten along really well, until this priest arrived. Our family had no choice but to leave.

So you are talking about infiltrators that hail from the local Masonic lodge, or what?

I'm serious -- who do these people work for? What is their goal?

Or are they just human beings, frail, with weaknesses like all of us (including Pride, Vainglory, Jealousy, etc.)

Perhaps the "demonic intelligence" you see at work is just that -- demonic in origin. It might not be a human conspiracy/infiltration at all. It might just be petty bad men doing their thing, inspired by the devil, who is the puppeteer.

Matthew

I wonder how many of these are actual conscious infiltrators (and what their actual agendas might be) and how many are just sociopaths.  I've noticed very strange people flocking to not only sede and SSPX chapels, but also to Indult Masses.  There's something about the Traditional Mass that attracts not only the devout, pious, and conservative but also imbalanced people or downright weirdos (and, I'm afraid, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs as well).

I'm also convinced that the SSPX seminaries have been infiltrated.  I'm not hereby taking a shot at the SSPX.  It just stands to reason.  Enemies of the Church have spent centuries trying to infiltrate the hierarchy, and so now they have absolutely mastered the art.  They could infiltrate the SSPX so fast that our heads would spin.  If they considered the SSPX to be a threat, which I am certain they do, then you can be morally that they have already infiltrated.  You just get a smart polyglot in there and that person when ordained would be practically guaranteed  a leadership position.  And I'm afraid that Archbishop Lefebvre was not always the best judge of character.

 I wholeheartedly agree, Lad.  I tried to say the same but couldn't manage it.   :cheers:

Talented, veteran shrinks who work with criminals will admit that although they can usually spot the sociopaths, even they can be deceived.  

I think the dynamic is that the active, conscious infiltrators and the sociopaths naturally combine forces.  The ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs will naturally gravitate to the inner circle of a dysfunctional chapel where secrets are kept, and where there is an excess of ambition and superiority.

I don't know if Abp. LeFebvre was a poor judge of character or if he was honestly hoodwinked by The Nine and The Guru.  People have insisted that good people tried to warn the Archbishop but he could not be convinced.  Is there truth to that?