Author Topic: Chastity in non-Catholics  (Read 2437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline poche

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13508
  • Reputation: +468/-894
  • Gender: Male
Chastity in non-Catholics
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2015, 11:14:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Malleus
    It is a basic teaching that no one can be chaste if he does not ask it of God, and that no one can maintain himself chaste unless he prays at the moment he is being tempted etc.

    So what are we to think of all those non-Catholics who are apparently chaste but never ask for it or who don't even pray? What about Buddhists even? Supposedly they despise all pleasures and are chaste, and yet they don't even believe in the true God.

    Are we to believe Buddhists for example, are not chaste even though they may claim to be?

    Buddhism is an example of a natural religion. It is a religioin that follows the natural law. If God had not revealed himself to Abraham and Jesus had not founded the Catholic Faith then Buddhism might be a good religion to follow.

    Offline Malleus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 318
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 11:54:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    Buddhism is an example of a natural religion. It is a religioin that follows the natural law. If God had not revealed himself to Abraham and Jesus had not founded the Catholic Faith then Buddhism might be a good religion to follow.


    Buddhism is idolatry. Are suicide and abortion, things which Buddhism endorses, part of the natural law as well?

    Straight out of Vatican 2, what you said.


    Offline shin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1489
    • Reputation: +753/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #17 on: February 11, 2015, 12:17:19 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • A truly diabolical statement Poche.
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4961
    • Reputation: +2775/-94
    • Gender: Female
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 12:34:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Buddhism is not a religion at all. It is a philosophy and a diabolical one at that.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 13508
    • Reputation: +468/-894
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 12:52:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Malleus
    Quote from: poche
    Buddhism is an example of a natural religion. It is a religioin that follows the natural law. If God had not revealed himself to Abraham and Jesus had not founded the Catholic Faith then Buddhism might be a good religion to follow.


    Buddhism is idolatry. Are suicide and abortion, things which Buddhism endorses, part of the natural law as well?

    Straight out of Vatican 2, what you said.

    Buddhism is a religion without Christ. I do not endorse suicide and I do not endorse abortion. We know these are wrong because the Divine revelation tell us that they are wrong. Buddhism is a philosophy without a divine revelation. Natural law is general however without the light of Divine Revelation it is clouded because of our concupisience. The darkness of our concupiscience makes its application obscure. Only with the light of divine revelation and the magisterial teaching of the Catholic Faith  


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 13508
    • Reputation: +468/-894
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #20 on: February 11, 2015, 12:58:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: shin
    A truly diabolical statement Poche.

    That is what life without the revelation of Christ is.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 13508
    • Reputation: +468/-894
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #21 on: February 11, 2015, 01:03:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nadir
    Buddhism is not a religion at all. It is a philosophy and a diabolical one at that.

    The original post was about chastity in non Christians. Buddhists living chaste lives was given as an example. It is not intended as an endorsement of the religion itself.    

    Offline Nadir

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4961
    • Reputation: +2775/-94
    • Gender: Female
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #22 on: February 11, 2015, 01:16:16 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Nadir
    Buddhism is not a religion at all. It is a philosophy and a diabolical one at that.

    The original post was about chastity in non Christians. Buddhists living chaste lives was given as an example. It is not intended as an endorsement of the religion itself.    


    I can read. I know what is the subject of this thread. But that post of yours must be one of the most stupid (to give you the benefit of the doubt - you mean well!) that I have ever read on this forum.


    Online JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2174
    • Reputation: +700/-354
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #23 on: February 11, 2015, 11:36:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Malleus
    It is a basic teaching that no one can be chaste if he does not ask it of God, and that no one can maintain himself chaste unless he prays at the moment he is being tempted etc.

    So what are we to think of all those non-Catholics who are apparently chaste but never ask for it or who don't even pray? What about Buddhists even? Supposedly they despise all pleasures and are chaste, and yet they don't even believe in the true God.

    Are we to believe Buddhists for example, are not chaste even though they may claim to be?

    Buddhism is an example of a natural religion. It is a religioin that follows the natural law. If God had not revealed himself to Abraham and Jesus had not founded the Catholic Faith then Buddhism might be a good religion to follow.


    Most religions and people outside the Catholic faith are capable of following the natural law. We can give them that.

    That does not make the other religions good to follow, though. Absolutely not. You are a Catholic, poche, not Karol Wojtyla. You know better.
    There is a God, but there probably is no Pope Francis.

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6682
    • Reputation: +4120/-516
    • Gender: Female
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #24 on: February 11, 2015, 12:21:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Malleus
    It is a basic teaching that no one can be chaste if he does not ask it of God, and that no one can maintain himself chaste unless he prays at the moment he is being tempted etc.

    So what are we to think of all those non-Catholics who are apparently chaste but never ask for it or who don't even pray? What about Buddhists even? Supposedly they despise all pleasures and are chaste, and yet they don't even believe in the true God.

    Are we to believe Buddhists for example, are not chaste even though they may claim to be?

    Buddhism is an example of a natural religion. It is a religioin that follows the natural law. If God had not revealed himself to Abraham and Jesus had not founded the Catholic Faith then Buddhism might be a good religion to follow.


    Not to derail this thread but no human is ever saved by Natural Law. If Christ has not come to earth and founded the Catholic religion, then humans would still be damned forever without the possibility of redemption. Buddhism had not ever been able to save us.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Dolores

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1049
    • Reputation: +529/-25
    • Gender: Female
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #25 on: February 11, 2015, 03:56:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Not to derail this thread but no human is ever saved by Natural Law. If Christ has not come to earth and founded the Catholic religion, then humans would still be damned forever without the possibility of redemption. Buddhism had not ever been able to save us.


    Not everyone who died before Christ came to earth was "damned forever without the possibility of redemption."  Before Christ's death and resurrection, the righteous did not enter Heaven, but rather the Limbo of the Fathers (i.e., the "Bosom of Abraham"), where they stayed until the Harrowing of Hell on Holy Saturday.

    If we lived in a time before the Incarnation, presumably the same would still occur.


    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6682
    • Reputation: +4120/-516
    • Gender: Female
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #26 on: February 11, 2015, 04:17:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Dolores
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Not to derail this thread but no human is ever saved by Natural Law. If Christ has not come to earth and founded the Catholic religion, then humans would still be damned forever without the possibility of redemption. Buddhism had not ever been able to save us.


    Not everyone who died before Christ came to earth was "damned forever without the possibility of redemption."  Before Christ's death and resurrection, the righteous did not enter Heaven, but rather the Limbo of the Fathers (i.e., the "Bosom of Abraham"), where they stayed until the Harrowing of Hell on Holy Saturday.

    If we lived in a time before the Incarnation, presumably the same would still occur.


    Well, yes, there was the Limbo of the Just but that was still Hell. The point being made is that it was only Jesus who finally opened the gates of Heaven for us. Jesus is God and only savior. Budha could not have done it.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 13508
    • Reputation: +468/-894
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #27 on: February 11, 2015, 10:59:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Since we are talking about Buddhism here is something that may be of interest. It is a rough translation from a French language forum;

    Monk Athet Pyan Shinthaw Paulu saw the Buddha in Hell


     The remarkable testimony of a Buddhist monk in Myanmar (Burma) who came back to life, transformed! These events occurred in 1998. Translated by Asian Minorities Outreach from a tape)

    INTRODUCTION

     The following story is simply the translation of testimony on tape of a man whose life has been transformed. This is not an interview or biography, but simply the words of this man.

    MY YEARS YOUNG

     Hi! My name is Athet Pyan Shinthaw Paulu. I am from Myanmar.

     I would like to share the testimony of what happened to me, but first, let me give you a brief overview of my life. I was born in 1958 in the town of Bogale in the delta Irraounddi region in southern Myanmar (former Burma). My parents, who were devout Buddhists like most people in Myanmar, called me Thitpin (which means "tree"). Our lives were very simple where I grew up. At the age of 13 I left school and started working on a fishing boat. We fished for fish and shrimp in the many rivers and streams in the region of Irraounddi. At the age of 16, I became the head of the boat. At that time I was living in the island of Mainmahlagyon (which means "the island of beautiful woman"), is just north of Bogale where I was born. This place is about 100 miles southwest of Yangoun (formerly Rangoon), our capital.
     One day when I was 17, we caught a lot of fish in our nets, a large crocodile was attracted to us. He followed our boat and tried to attack us. We were terrified and we rowed towards the banks of the river as fast as we could. The crocodile followed us and smashed our boat with its tail. Although no one died in this incident, the attack greatly affected my life. We had to go back to our village in a passenger ship. Soon after, my father's employers have transferred to Yangoun. At the age of 18 I was sent to a Buddhist monastery to be a novice monk. Most parents in Myanmar try to send their son into a Buddhist monastery, at least for a time, because it is a great honor to have a son serving in this way. We observed this custom for many hundreds of years.
    A DISCIPLE ZELE BUDDHA

     When I was 19 years and 3 months (in 1977), I became a normal monk. The senior monk at my monastery gave me a new Buddhist name, which is the custom in our country. I was now called U Nata Pannita Ashinthuriya (10). When you become a monk, you will not use the name that was given to you by your parents you were born. The name of the monastery where I lived is called Mandalay Kyaikasan Kyaing. The name of the senior monk was Zadila U Kyar Ni Kan Sayadaw (U Zadila is its title). He was the most famous Buddhist monk in Myanmar at the time. Everyone knew who he was. He was greatly honored by the people and respected as a great teacher. I say "was" because in 1983 he died in a car accident. His death shocked everyone. At that time I was a monk for 6 years. I was trying hard to be the best that I could be a monk and follow the precepts of Buddhism. At one time, I moved to a cemetery where I lived and meditated continually. Some monks who really want to know the truths of Buddha do things like me. Some deep into the forests where they live a life of poverty and denial. I tried to deny my selfish thoughts and desires, to escape from sickness and suffering and to set me free from the cycle of this world. In this cemetery I was not afraid of ghosts. I tried to attain such inner peace and self-realization that even when a mosquito landed on my arm, I let him bite me rather than hunt! For years I tried to be the best that I could be a monk and not to harm any living being. I studied the holy Buddhist teachings as my forefathers had done before me. My life has been like a monk until I am very, very sick. I was in Mandalay at the time and I had to be taken to hospital for treatment. The doctors did some tests on me and told me that I had yellow fever and malaria at the same time! After spending a month in the hospital, my condition worsened. The doctors told me that I had no chance to heal and they sent me to prepare to die. This is a brief description of my past. I will now tell you the most remarkable thing ever happened to me after this period.
     
    VISION THAT CHANGED MY LIFE FOREVER

     After being discharged from the hospital, I returned to the monastery where other monks cared for me. I was becoming weaker and I lost consciousness. I later learned that I was dead for three days. My body was decomposed and reeked of death, and my heart had stopped beating. My body was prepared for cremation and underwent traditional Buddhist purification rites. Although my body wasted away, I remember that my intelligence and my mind was completely awake. I was in a very storm, very powerful. A terrible wind swept across the landscape until there remains no trees or anything standing just a flat plain.I quickly market in this plain for some time. There was nobody, I was all alone. After some time I crossed a river. In Buddhism we do not have the concept of a place like this. First, I was troubled, and I did not know it was hell until I saw Yama, the king of Hell (Yama is the name given to the King of Hell in many cultures throughout Asia. his face resembled that of a lion, his body was like a lion, but his legs were those of a naga (snake mind). It was a lot of horns on his head. his face was very fierce, and I was extremely afraid. trembling, I asked him his name. He replied, "I am the king of hell, the Destroyer."

    TERRIBLE LAKE FIRE

     The king of hell told me to look into the lake of fire. On the other side of the river, I saw a terrible lake of fire. I looked and I saw the saffron robes that Buddhist monks wear in Myanmar. I looked closer and saw the shaven head of a man. When I saw his face, I recognized U Kyar Ni Kan Sayadaw Zadila (the famous monk who had died in a car accident in 1983). I asked the king of hell why my former leader was confined to this torment lake. I say "Why is he in this lake of fire it was a very good teacher. He even recorded a teaching called" Are you a man or a dog? "Has helped thousands of people understand their value as man was much greater than that of animals. "The king of hell replied, "Yes, it was a good teacher but he did not believe in Jesus Christ. That's why he is in hell." He told me to look at another person who was in the fire. I saw a man with very long hair wrapped on the right side of the head. He also wore a dress. I asked the king of hell, "Who is this man?".He replied, "This is the one you worship Gautama (Buddha)". I was very disturbed to see Gautama in hell. I protested, "Gautama had good moral character, why there are suffering in this lake of fire?" The king of hell replied "It does not matter how good you are. It is in this place because he did not believe in the Lord God." Then I saw another man who seemed to wear a military uniform. He had a large wound on his chest. I asked, "Who is this man?" The king of hell told me "This is Aung San, the revolutionary leader of Myanmar." He told me, "Aung San is here because he persecuted and killed many Christians, but mostly because he did not believe in Jesus Christ."In Myanmar, people have a common phrase that says "soldiers never die, they continue to live." I learned that the legions of hell saying "Soldiers never die, but they go to hell forever." I looked and saw another man in the lake of fire. He was very tall and dressed in military armor. He also wore a sword and shield. This man had a wound on his forehead. This man was the greatest I've ever seen. The king of hell says "the name of this man is Goliath. He is in hell because he blasphemed the Lord God and his servant David." I was confused because I did not know who David and Goliath. The king of hell said, "Goliath is mentioned in the Bible. You do not know it now, but when you will become a Christian you will know who he is." Then I was taken to a place where I saw all the rich and the poor prepare their evening meal. I asked "Who prepared the meal of these people?" The king of hell replied, "The poor have to prepare their food, but the rich are preparing their meals by others. When the meal is ready rich, they sit down to eat. As soon as they start a thick smoke rises.The rich also eat fast as they can to ease their conscience (?). They are struggling to breathe because of the smoke. They have to eat fast because they are afraid of losing money. Money is their god. Then another king of hell came to see me. I also saw a creature whose job is to stoke the fires beneath the lake to keep it hot. This creature asked me "Are you also going into the lake of fire?" I said, "No! I'm only here to observe!" The appearance of this creature was stirring the fire was really frightening. He had ten horns on his head and a spear in his hand that had seven sharp blades at the end. The creature said "You're right. You came here just to observe. I can not find your name here." He says, "You must leave now and go back to where you came from." He pointed to the desolate plain that I had to cross before reaching the lake of fire.

    ROUTE OF DECISION & A LOOK IN PARADISE

     I walked a long time, until I bled. I was very hot and very badly. Finally, after walking for three hours I came to a wide road. I walked along this road for a while until a crossroads. A road going left, was wide. A smaller road going to the right. There was a sign in the intersection indicating that the road to the left was for those who did not believe in Jesus Christ. The smaller road to the right was for those who believed in Jesus. I was curious to see where the highway driving as I began to borrow. There were two men in front of me about 300 meters. I tried to catch up to walk with them, but few as were my efforts to get there, I have not been able to catch up, so I went back to the intersection. I continued to watch these two men as they walked away down the road. When they reached the end of the road they were suddenly stabbed. These two men were screaming in pain! I also cried when I saw what happened to them! I realized that most road ended in great danger for those who borrowed.

    I started to walk along the road of believers. After walking for about an hour to the road surface has become pure gold. It was so pure that when I looked at the ground I could see my own reflection perfectly. Then I saw a man standing before me. He wore a white dress. I also heard beautiful singing. Oh, it was so beautiful and pure! It was much better and more meaningful than the praise that we have in churches on earth. The man in the white robe asked me to walk with him. I asked him "What is your name?" But he did not answer. After I had asked him his name six times the man answered ""I am the one who holds the keys of heaven. Heaven is a very beautiful place. You can not enter now, but if you follow Jesus Christ you can go there when your life is complete on earth." The man appelaitPierre. Then Peter asked me to sit down and showed me a place to the north. Peter said, "Look to the north and see God create man." I saw the Eternal God from a distance. God spoke to an angel, "Let us make man." The angel begged God and said, "Please do not do man. He will do it wrong and it will upset you (literally in Burmese" It will make you lose face "God created a man anyway . He blew on man and the man came to life and gave him the name Adam. (Note:. Buddhists do not believe in the creation of the universe and of man, so this experience was a significant impact on the monk.)

    MADE WITH A NEW NAME

     Then Peter said, "Now get up and go back to you where you came from. Talk to the people who worship Buddha and who worship idols. Tell them that they will go to hell if they do not change. Those who build temples and idols also go to hell. those who give offerings to the monks to earn rewards for themselves, go to hell. All those who pray to the monks and call them "Pra" (a respectful title for monks) will go to hell. those who worship and "give life" to idols will go to hell. those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will go to hell. "Peter told me to return to earth and testify of the things I've seen. He also told me "You should speak with your new name. From now on your name Athet Pyan Shinthaw Paulu (Paul who came back to life) I did not come back. I wanted to go to heaven.Angels opened a book. They looked at first my birth name (Thitpin) in the book, but they did not find. Then they looked at the name that was given to me as I entered the monastery but it was not written in the book. Then Peter said, "Your name is not written here, you must return and testify about Jesus to the Buddhist people." I turned on the golden road. Again I heard beautiful singing, the kind I have never heard before or since. Peter walked with me until I return to earth. He showed me a ladder coming down from heaven in the sky. The ladder did not reach the ground, but stopped in the air. On the scale I saw many angels, some going to heaven and others down the ladder. They were very busy. I asked Peter "Who?" Peter answered, "These are God's messengers. They just bring to heaven the names of those who believe in Jesus Christ and those who do not believe." Then Peter said it was time to return.

    .It A GHOST!

     The first thing I remember was the sound of crying. I heard my mother scream, "My son, why did you leave us now?" I also heard other people crying. I realized that I was lying in a box. I started to move. My mother and father started yelling, "He's alive! He's alive!" Others who were a little further did not believe my parents. I then put my hands on the edge of the box and I sat down. Many people were struck with terror. they Were shouting "it's a ghost!" And left power as fast as their legs could carry them. Those who remained were speechless and trembling. I noticed that I was sitting in a smelly liquid, enough to fill three cups and a half. It was out of my stomach and my belly while I was lying in the coffin. This is why people knew I was dead. Inside the coffin there was a type of plastic sheet fixed to the wood. This sheet is placed there to contain the body fluids of the deceased. I learned later that I was about to be cremated in the flames. In Myanmar, people are put in a coffin, the lid is nailed, and the whole coffin is burned. When I came back to life, my father and my mother had been allowed to look at me one last time. A moment later, we would have sealed the lid and have cremated me! I immediately started to explain the things I had seen and heard. The people were amazed. I told them about the man I had seen in the lake of fire, and I tell them that only the Christians know the truth, that we and our ancestors, we had been deceived for thousands of years! I told them everything we believe is a lie. The people were astonished because they knew what kind of a monk I had been and how I was zealous for the teachings of Buddha. In Myanmar when a person dies their name and age is written on the sides of the coffin. When a monk dies, his name, age and number of years he served, are on the sides of the coffin. I was already registered as dead but as you can see, now I am alive!

    http://ephata.actifforum.com/t5477-un-moine-a-vu-bouddha-en-enfer

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6682
    • Reputation: +4120/-516
    • Gender: Female
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #28 on: February 11, 2015, 11:18:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Poche

    Since we are talking about Buddhism here is something that may be of interest. It is a rough translation from a French language forum;

     Monk Athet Pyan Shinthaw Paulu saw the Buddha in Hell



    Very interesting story. Thanks for sharing.

    All true Catholics know that Budha, just all other false gods, are really demons. Just as st. Paul says "All the gods of the gentiles are devils". Gentiles in this context understood as the non - Christians.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline shin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1489
    • Reputation: +753/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Chastity in non-Catholics
    « Reply #29 on: February 12, 2015, 07:22:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • 'Before holy baptism, grace encourages the soul towards good from the outside, while Satan lurks in its depths, trying to block all the intellect's ways of approach to the divine. But from the moment that we are reborn through baptism, the demon is outside, grace is within.

    Thus, whereas before baptism error ruled the soul, after baptism truth rules it.

    Nevertheless, even after baptism Satan still acts on the soul, often, indeed, to a greater degree than before. This is not because he is present in the soul together with grace; on the contrary, it is because he uses the body's humors to befog the intellect with the delight of mindless pleasures. God allows him to do this, so that a man, after passing through a trial of storm and fire, may come in the end to the full enjoyment of divine blessings. For it is written: "We went through fire and water, and Thou hast brought us out into a place where the soul is refreshed" (Ps. 66.12).'

    St. Diadochos of Photiki

    'Without sanctifying grace it is not possible to refrain long from mortal sin.'

    St. Thomas Aquinas
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16