Author Topic: I had come here for a fight ! (Read 1349 times)

Vandaler · « **on:** October 28, 2006, 11:23:55 AM »

Hi all,

I admit, I had come here in a fighting spirit, combating what not so much what I view as errors, but rather how these "errors" are associated to my religion; Catholicism.

However, I'm quick to realize that there is not much to fight. Indeed, aside from pointing out the obvious; that noting of much of what is discussed is docuмented. But you already know that.

Also, when you get close to speaking the core of your belief, you stop short. In a way, I'm thankful of that since the damage to the image of he Church would be even further damaged if the key words where to be pickup by web crawlers and search engines.

All this to say, is that I can't fight what you won't discuss, nor even name or only talk peripherally so my purpose here is invalidated.

I just ask, that you guys keep an open mind, and perhaps you will tire at seeing events folding differently then you expect and without clear explanation. (other then THEY have changed their minds) Personally, when the world does not behave the way I expect it, I put in question wither I might have it wrong. I needed to do this a number of times in the past 15 years and now, I seem to have reached a point where I do begin to understand more. But I'm still flexible. I hope you guys are to.

Farewell

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2006, 12:20:23 PM »

You want a fight? Go to the SSPX vs Indult at FE, theres something worth debating!

I'm an SSPX supporter myself.

Vandaler · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2006, 12:40:11 PM »

Actually no, I'm shacky on those grounds.

I defy labels, I'm certainly not a "Trad" anyway... so I'm in no place to debate the various flavors.

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2006, 12:43:40 PM »

Ah, I see. I'm curious, what's your take on the Church Crisis? OR do you call it something else?

Vandaler · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2006, 01:36:10 PM »

In a nutshell,

I don't blame Vatican II explicetely if that what's your getting at.

VII aimed to react at social changes that where allready detected at the turn of the previous century. It is those powerfull social changes that caused the current situation not the Council. Also, VII brought a culture of change, that was not intended in the docuмent, that made the matters even worse with all kinds of abuse.

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2006, 01:47:53 PM »

One problem I have is that the Council didn't really define any Catholic truth, while at the same time it didn't reject any errors.

Another problem I have is the ambiguous notions, ambiguous statements or sentences. The wording of the docuмents leaves them open to interpretation, heretical or otherwise.

Another problem I have is that some Catholics think this Council was Dogmatic, which it wasn't.

Sure V2 isn't the only thing that caused some of our problems, but it is a big contributor.

You can blame the effects of the second world war as well. Even the cold war can share in the blame. But Vatican 2 is something that can be (with alot of effort) clarified to the world as something that needs to be reviewed in light of Tradition.

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2006, 01:48:51 PM »

Also, another thing I'm curious of, which issue or issues did you expect we would fight over? :scratchchin:

Vandaler · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2006, 02:08:27 PM »

You know what my battle horses are.
No different here then elsewhere.

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2006, 03:35:07 PM »

But specifically? I mean, we pretty much won the whole "the North American Union is coming" kinda thing, but it still remains to be proven wether or not there will be a fαℓѕє fℓαg terror attack as a pretext to attack Iran.

It may come or it may not, there's no way of knowing as long as members of occult groups are in the government.

Vandaler · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2006, 05:22:20 PM »

Quote from: CampeadorShin

But specifically? I mean, we pretty much won the whole "the North American Union is coming" kinda thing, but it still remains to be proven wether or not there will be a fαℓѕє fℓαg terror attack as a pretext to attack Iran.

It may come or it may not, there's no way of knowing as long as members of occult groups are in the government.

Really, who is we... and who did you debate on the North American Union ? I don't know that there is a debate to be had... It's a project, that's been sitting on a shelf, some support it, some disagree with. What did you win again ?

There will be no fαℓѕє fℓαg attack on Iran. There probably won't be a conflict either, unless one side misinterpret the other sides intentions. Where do you even get the idea that Iran wants nukes anyway? Do you think that a country who REALLY wants a nuclear weapon go about being so public about it ?? Go public to inaugurate a centrifuge like they did this week? The nuclear bluff is a bargaining chip, notably to get a strong Shi'ite governeemnt in Irak and prestige in the Arab world.

If you want to go nuclear, you do it like Isreal, India and Pakistan. Secretly.

But like I said, I leave you guys to your miserabilism and self-induced fear. I don't want part of it.

Matthew · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2006, 05:09:28 AM »

Quote from: Vandaler

You know what my battle horses are.
No different here then elsewhere.

Maybe Campy does, but I certainly don't.

I can only guess --

The role of science in a Catholic's life, Feeneyism, modernism, the existence of cօռspιʀαcιҽs, etc.

There are so many topics, but I really don't know which ones are important to you.

Matthew

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2006, 05:21:13 AM »

Quote from: Vandaler

I admit, I had come here in a fighting spirit, combating what not so much what I view as errors, but rather how these "errors" are associated to my religion; Catholicism.

However, I'm quick to realize that there is not much to fight. Indeed, aside from pointing out the obvious; that noting of much of what is discussed is docuмented. But you already know that.

Also, when you get close to speaking the core of your belief, you stop short. In a way, I'm thankful of that since the damage to the image of he Church would be even further damaged if the key words where to be pickup by web crawlers and search engines.

All this to say, is that I can't fight what you won't discuss, nor even name or only talk peripherally so my purpose here is invalidated.

Maybe it's a good thing that we're not squabbling about things that don't matter.

We're all just trying to keep the Faith here (and keeping each other informed as well). It's also nice to not feel so alone once in a while. Not everyone we meet is capable (or interested) in discussing certain important topics.

Compartively few Catholics are not tainted by modernism and/or liberalism. These errors are repulsive to those not yet tainted by them. Even some "traditional" Catholics have been swallowed whole by the "spirit of the world" and are not very interested in spiritual things.

Catholics who think that because they're not a priest or religious, they get to live like a neo-Pagan (who goes to Mass on Sunday) and be indistinguishable from any non-Catholic (or non-Christian) they work with, are sadly mistaken about what it means to be Catholic.

A Catholic layman should live much like a Catholic brother, priest, or monk. A married layman doesn't have to practice perfect chastity, but he DOES have to practice chastity. He may need certain materal things to live, but he shouldn't be OF the world -- but rather IN the world. He may not have to ask his superior for every little thing (vow of Obedience) but he DOES have to follow his priest. When his solidly Catholic priest tells him that TV is bad, he shouldn't dismiss it like he dismisses a wayward teenager's prank phone call.

Boards like Cathinfo.com, FishEaters, AngelQueen, Catholic.org, etc. serve a need, by allowing Catholics to speak to other like-minded Catholics.

God bless,

Matthew

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2006, 01:15:58 PM »

Quote

Really, who is we... and who did you debate on the North American Union ? I don't know that there is a debate to be had... It's a project, that's been sitting on a shelf, some support it, some disagree with. What did you win again ?

You weren't part of the crowd calling us loons when we said it was coming? Well then, I apologize.

Quote

There will be no fαℓѕє fℓαg attack on Iran.

Actually, Vandaler, a "fαℓѕє fℓαg" attack, means you attack your own people and tell them that the enemy did it. If you think there will be no fαℓѕє fℓαg attack, then I respect your opinon. I don't know if it will or won't happen. But I see nothing wrong with doing some research on my spare time.

Quote

There probably won't be a conflict either, unless one side misinterpret the other sides intentions. Where do you even get the idea that Iran wants nukes anyway?

Actually, I'm not one of the people that thinks Iran wants nukes. I'm one of the people who thinks Israel is making everyone think the Iranians want nukes.

I am aware that the Iranians want to destroy Israel and are in the middle of a three year plan to do so. But will they use nukes? I don't know. The Iranians said nuclear weapons contradict their religious beliefs, but then again, the Koran says you can lie to your enemy.

So I don't know what to think when it comes to the Iranians and nukes.

Quote

But like I said, I leave you guys to your miserabilism and self-induced fear. I don't want part of it.

Fear? Misery? But Christ told us to dance joyously when we were persecuted for Him. Just because things don't look good doesn't mean we're going to wet our pants and cry in a corner.

Where do you get these assumptions Vandaler? I can understand you not wanting to believe any conspiracy theories, but I can't understand why you think we are miserable and sad.

The only way I could imagine someone getting sad and miserable is if they took all of this information in a secular way. But taking in all this info in light of Christ, I don't see how one could get sad and miserable.

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2006, 12:46:52 PM »

Converting Sophia? Well, I'm not sure I did that on my own. There were many people posting about the North American Union, she and two others are usually there to debate anything like that.

But when I posted the video about the Texan running for office in order to stop the N. American Union Highway from being built, she posted a map of the planned Highways.