Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Graham on June 07, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
-
As a former Anglican (and then briefly a NO Catholic), an SSPX priest determined a few months ago that I should officially abjure my old heretical beliefs. Which I’m only too eager to do. Then recently it was determined that I should also be conditionally baptised, because although the Anglicans use the trinitarian form, they can’t be certain that the rite was done properly.
It has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps my baptism wasn’t valid, and naturally it’s far better to be safe than sorry about it. But I can’t help feeling despondent and embarrassed about having to be conditionally baptised. Here I am having gone to confession and communion regularly for over a year, thinking I was a baptized Christian and a full Catholic. :sad: The good part is that now there will be absolutely no doubts and I'll be baptised by a traditional priest whom I respect in a beautiful old chapel.
-
As a former Anglican (and then briefly a NO Catholic), an SSPX priest determined a few months ago that I should officially abjure my old heretical beliefs. Which I’m only too eager to do. Then recently it was determined that I should also be conditionally baptised, because although the Anglicans use the trinitarian form, they can’t be certain that the rite was done properly.
It has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps my baptism wasn’t valid, and naturally it’s far better to be safe than sorry about it. But I can’t help feeling despondent and embarrassed about having to be conditionally baptised. Here I am having gone to confession and communion regularly for over a year, thinking I was a baptized Christian and a full Catholic. :sad: The good part is that now there will be absolutely no doubts and I'll be baptised by a traditional priest whom I respect in a beautiful old chapel.
Congratulations. There is nothing to be embarrassed about. There is a possibility that your Baptism was Valid - but the SSPX is being prudent to ensure that it is. We can only recieve Baptism once in our lifetimes - so either the original Baptism was good and you already have that Indelible mark on your soul and you are already a member of Christs Mystical Body or will be shortly. Rejoice and dont be embarrassed!
Pax
-
I was taught that as long as the trinitarian formula is used and the person has the intent to baptize, the baptism is valid. Even in emergencies a lay person can perform a baptism and the Church accepts it. It doesn't matter if the person was baptized as a Protestant. That is why the Church doesn't routinely re-baptize Protestants but accepts their baptisms as completely valid. The only time the Church performs a conditional baptism is when no record of baptism can be located or the person belonged to a questionable sect.
-
Graham, if you are going to be conditionally baptized, won't they have to conditionally confirm you as well?
-
This is another reason why Baptism of Desire is a necessary doctrine.
If it is possible for a malignant priest to invalidate a Baptism by internally refusing to intend to Baptize, it would make God's Judgement capricious.
-
This is another reason why Baptism of Desire is a necessary doctrine.
If it is possible for a malignant priest to invalidate a Baptism by internally refusing to intend to Baptize, it would make God's Judgement capricious.
So true, and I wonder what these souls who deny the teaching of baptism of desire would think of one of these enemy, freemasonic priest baptised them and witheld the intention, I can just picture it. Standing before God, and God says, your not even water baptised.
It is fearful to imagine. Yet this is what they believe.
-
As a former Anglican (and then briefly a NO Catholic), an SSPX priest determined a few months ago that I should officially abjure my old heretical beliefs. Which I’m only too eager to do. Then recently it was determined that I should also be conditionally baptised, because although the Anglicans use the trinitarian form, they can’t be certain that the rite was done properly.
It has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps my baptism wasn’t valid, and naturally it’s far better to be safe than sorry about it. But I can’t help feeling despondent and embarrassed about having to be conditionally baptised. Here I am having gone to confession and communion regularly for over a year, thinking I was a baptized Christian and a full Catholic. :sad: The good part is that now there will be absolutely no doubts and I'll be baptised by a traditional priest whom I respect in a beautiful old chapel.
Congratulations. There is nothing to be embarrassed about. There is a possibility that your Baptism was Valid - but the SSPX is being prudent to ensure that it is. We can only recieve Baptism once in our lifetimes - so either the original Baptism was good and you already have that Indelible mark on your soul and you are already a member of Christs Mystical Body or will be shortly. Rejoice and dont be embarrassed!
Pax
Your post is heartening - thank you.
-
Congrats, Graham. As others have said, nothing to be embarassed about, the SSPX is just ensuring that your Baptism is valid.
God Bless.
-
Dear Graham,
God Bless you, Graham.
Sunday will be a wonderful day for you.
Do not feel embarrassed. Any negative feelings are possibly just put into you by the devil.
Enjoy your special day.
I am happy for you.
God Bless you, Graham.
-
This is another reason why Baptism of Desire is a necessary doctrine.
If it is possible for a malignant priest to invalidate a Baptism by internally refusing to intend to Baptize, it would make God's Judgement capricious.
I never thought of that. Good point.
-
If anyone is uncertain about the validity of their Baptism,
then it is vital and urgent that they are conditionally Baptized.
If it is possible that you, or someone you know, might not be validly Baptized, then arrange a conditional Baptism.
It could mean the difference between either an eternity of happiness in Heaven, or the loss of that eternity of happiness in Heaven.
You do not want to risk losing your happiness in Heaven.
If it is lost and you die in that state, it is lost forever.
That dread and chilling word - forever.
Get yourself and your loved ones Baptized. Save your soul and theirs.
-
This is another reason why Baptism of Desire is a necessary doctrine.
If it is possible for a malignant priest to invalidate a Baptism by internally refusing to intend to Baptize, it would make God's Judgement capricious.
Not to mention:
A) No one would ever trust their infant baptism was valid, it would be too risky. You would want to see it and hear it done properly.
B) The scrupulous would probably get conditionally baptised 15 times throughout their lives.
-
Here is the Holy Office response on the validity of Protestant-Methodist baptisms in Central Oceania from 1872:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/4j9nif.jpg)
*Note, densum should be derisum.
Translation:
In certain places some of them (heretics) baptize with the proper matter and form applied simultaneously, but expressly warn the baptized they should not think the Baptism to have any effect on the soul; for they say that it is merely the external sign of uniting to their sect. So they often turn and laughed at Catholics about their belief in the effects of baptism, which they even call superstition. It is asked:
1. Whether the Baptism administered by those heretics is doubtful because of the defect of intention to do what Christ willed, if an express declaration has been made by the minister before he baptised that baptism had no effect on the soul?
2. Whether the Baptism so conferred is doubtful if the aforesaid declaration was not expressly made immediately before the conferring of Baptism, but had often been proclaimed by the minister, and the same doctrine was openly preached in that sect?
Reply to the first question: In the negative, because in spite of the error in regard to the effects of baptism, the intention of doing what the Church does is not excluded.
To the second question: The answer has been provided in the first.
-
This is another reason why Baptism of Desire is a necessary doctrine.
If it is possible for a malignant priest to invalidate a Baptism by internally refusing to intend to Baptize, it would make God's Judgement capricious.
Well said - Great point. There are so many ramifications when Catholic doctrine is willy nilly abandoned by groups of idealogues without forethought.
Pax
-
Here are a few photos from my conditional baptism.
First my abjuration where I formally renounced my past heresy and affirmed my ardent wish to be Catholic.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/steeple/Abjuration.jpg)
Now after the conditional baptism I am consecrating myself to the Virgin Mary.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/steeple/ConditionalBaptism.jpg)
This is me at what is perhaps my first communion:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/steeple/Conditional1stCommunion.jpg)
Here I am with my pious and very affable and conditional godfather, Mssr. Mathieu.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/steeple/WithConditionalGodfather.jpg)
-
Congratulations.
-
As a former Anglican (and then briefly a NO Catholic), an SSPX priest determined a few months ago that I should officially abjure my old heretical beliefs. Which I’m only too eager to do. Then recently it was determined that I should also be conditionally baptised, because although the Anglicans use the trinitarian form, they can’t be certain that the rite was done properly.
It has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps my baptism wasn’t valid, and naturally it’s far better to be safe than sorry about it. But I can’t help feeling despondent and embarrassed about having to be conditionally baptised. Here I am having gone to confession and communion regularly for over a year, thinking I was a baptized Christian and a full Catholic. :sad: The good part is that now there will be absolutely no doubts and I'll be baptised by a traditional priest whom I respect in a beautiful old chapel.
Congratulations, Grahm! What a tremendous grace to be truly baptized into the traditional Faith of our Fathers in this age!
May you treasure your faith, always learn and grow in appreciation of it, and always be faithful to prayer, especially the Rosary.
Attend mass faithfully, and receive Holy communion often.
:pray:
-
Congratulations! When I converted to a NO church, the priest said I didn't need to be baptized because I was baptized in a Southern Baptist church and they, obviously, took baptism seriously and used the proper formula "In the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." But I have always wondered. Actually, I wonder if my Confirmation was valid.
Graham you are probably the only person I've seen here to post a picture. I'm changing my avatar to my picture for a while too. I find it's easier to be charitable with others when you can put a human face on them.
-
Congratulations, Graham! May Our Blessed Lord, and Most Holy Virgin Mary keep you in Their Hearts, forever!!
-
Graham, may God Bless you! Thank you for sharing these wonderful pictures of this grace-filled moment in your life. Deo Gratias, and thanks be to Our Blessed Mother, Queen of Heaven!
-
Congratulations Graham!
That is a beautiful church, btw.
This brings up a good question for discussion. I recently read that if one was 'confirmed' in the N.O. then a 'conditional' confirmation is not valid. Their reason being that nothing can be 'half valid', so the whole confirmation must be done. What are some of your experiences and what requirements have you read with this regard.
I know I wasn't 'tested', even though I could have answered any test questions.
What say you?
-
Congratulations Graham!
That is a beautiful church, btw.
This brings up a good question for discussion. I recently read that if one was 'confirmed' in the N.O. then a 'conditional' confirmation is not valid. Their reason being that nothing can be 'half valid', so the whole confirmation must be done. What are some of your experiences and what requirements have you read with this regard.
I know I wasn't 'tested', even though I could have answered any test questions.
What say you?
At my (NO) confirmation, we were asked something like, "what brings you here?" and we all had to answer, "faith." Then other questions like that, I don't honestly remember. I am pretty sure we were never asked if we renounced satan and his works, which I thought was usually asked. Also, the parish priest did the confirmation, not the Archbishop. We did go to a chapel about an hour away to attend some ceremony with the Archbishop a few weeks prior, with other candidates from other parishes, but it wasn't a confirmation, as he never chrismated us. He did shake our hands though.
-
Congratulations!
I wonder if I will have to do something like this. I know that I was not quizzed for confirmation. I think we just were asked if we knew what it meant to be confirmed. We also had to do a special project. I did a Rosary project.
-
Congratulations Graham!
That is a beautiful church, btw.
This brings up a good question for discussion. I recently read that if one was 'confirmed' in the N.O. then a 'conditional' confirmation is not valid. Their reason being that nothing can be 'half valid', so the whole confirmation must be done. What are some of your experiences and what requirements have you read with this regard.
I know I wasn't 'tested', even though I could have answered any test questions.
What say you?
At my (NO) confirmation, we were asked something like, "what brings you here?" and we all had to answer, "faith." Then other questions like that, I don't honestly remember. I am pretty sure we were never asked if we renounced satan and his works, which I thought was usually asked. Also, the parish priest did the confirmation, not the Archbishop. We did go to a chapel about an hour away to attend some ceremony with the Archbishop a few weeks prior, with other candidates from other parishes, but it wasn't a confirmation, as he never chrismated us. He did shake our hands though.
Wow! I'd imagine everyone just got a huge case of the 'warm and fuzzies' surrounding all that! Would I be right? Well, the question of conditional confirmation is based, as you would guess, on the doubtful validity of the Bishop. Was he merely 'installed' or was he consecrated like +ABL did for the Four? My "bishop" had scandals circling him worse than an Olympic skater and all he did was make a 'squishy mess' with his thumb on our forehead. No questions, no 'slap' on the face, not even a 'get ought of here now'! I don't even remember him asking what Saints name we'd chosen or why- (maybe because he wouldn't have known about them anyway)....I know, not very 'CHAAARRRRITABLE'.... So, I still have this 'hang up' about whether or not Conditional makes any sense..as I've read it makes no sense. period.
-
Congratulations Graham!
That is a beautiful church, btw.
This brings up a good question for discussion. I recently read that if one was 'confirmed' in the N.O. then a 'conditional' confirmation is not valid. Their reason being that nothing can be 'half valid', so the whole confirmation must be done. What are some of your experiences and what requirements have you read with this regard.
I know I wasn't 'tested', even though I could have answered any test questions.
What say you?
At my (NO) confirmation, we were asked something like, "what brings you here?" and we all had to answer, "faith." Then other questions like that, I don't honestly remember. I am pretty sure we were never asked if we renounced satan and his works, which I thought was usually asked. Also, the parish priest did the confirmation, not the Archbishop. We did go to a chapel about an hour away to attend some ceremony with the Archbishop a few weeks prior, with other candidates from other parishes, but it wasn't a confirmation, as he never chrismated us. He did shake our hands though.
Wow! I'd imagine everyone just got a huge case of the 'warm and fuzzies' surrounding all that! Would I be right? Well, the question of conditional confirmation is based, as you would guess, on the doubtful validity of the Bishop. Was he merely 'installed' or was he consecrated like +ABL did for the Four? My "bishop" had scandals circling him worse than an Olympic skater and all he did was make a 'squishy mess' with his thumb on our forehead. No questions, no 'slap' on the face, not even a 'get ought of here now'! I don't even remember him asking what Saints name we'd chosen or why- (maybe because he wouldn't have known about them anyway)....I know, not very 'CHAAARRRRITABLE'.... So, I still have this 'hang up' about whether or not Conditional makes any sense..as I've read it makes no sense. period.
The archbishop here is incredibly liberal, if not scandalous. Dont really pay enough attention honestly.
What is telling to me is, what should have been the most joyous day of my life, when I became a Christian for real, and for the first time in my life received the Body of Our Lord- just three years later I hardly remember anything about. I was expecting life changing, not warm and fuzzy, and no, didnt even get that. At least the priest asked my confirmation saint's name though. Bonus!
I dont think such a thing as conditional Confirmation should exist if it does. One may confirm something several times, i would think. Though the fulness of the Spirit only comes once, I would say another Confirmation, even if the first was valid, is still OK as you are again renouncing evil and proclaiming the truth of the Church, which is never a bad thing.
-
Congratulations!
I wonder if I will have to do something like this. I know that I was not quizzed for confirmation. I think we just were asked if we knew what it meant to be confirmed. We also had to do a special project. I did a Rosary project.
I make Rosaries as a hobby, when I can find time. Making one is like praying one, only better because when finished you can have it blessed and give it away. I hand them sometimes to complete strangers and say, "here, I made this for you. God bless". They are often shocked but always express much gratitude at getting the gift. I hope that it will stir them to find out more about it if they don't know already. I always attach a Saint's medal or Miraculous medal to the chain just after the tenth Hail Mary on the decade part, between it and the Our Father, in hope that they will be interested in finding out more about said Saint or Our Lady.
-
Congratulations, Graham! Nice photos!
Graham you are probably the only person I've seen here to post a picture. I'm changing my avatar to my picture for a while too. I find it's easier to be charitable with others when you can put a human face on them.
That didn't last long!
There was a push for everyone to share video intros last summer. A few of us (like 7) did so. Historically, this board hasn't been much of a photo-sharing group.
-
Congratulations!
I wonder if I will have to do something like this. I know that I was not quizzed for confirmation. I think we just were asked if we knew what it meant to be confirmed. We also had to do a special project. I did a Rosary project.
I make Rosaries as a hobby, when I can find time. Making one is like praying one, only better because when finished you can have it blessed and give it away. I hand them sometimes to complete strangers and say, "here, I made this for you. God bless". They are often shocked but always express much gratitude at getting the gift. I hope that it will stir them to find out more about it if they don't know already. I always attach a Saint's medal or Miraculous medal to the chain just after the tenth Hail Mary on the decade part, between it and the Our Father, in hope that they will be interested in finding out more about said Saint or Our Lady.
Very neat! I should learn how to make them. My project was just organizing a donation drive and having them sent with missionaries out of the country to give away.
I also tried to implement rosary prayer before football games for the players/cheerleaders. That didn't work out too well in a very secularized NO Catholic high school. Maybe that was a good thing. Blessed Mother would have never approved of our cheer uniforms. :thinking:
-
If you crochet or learn to crochet you can make them from yarn.
-
Graham you are probably the only person I've seen here to post a picture. I'm changing my avatar to my picture for a while too. I find it's easier to be charitable with others when you can put a human face on them.
That didn't last long!
I didn't see it either, and I think I checked just a couple hours after he posted.
-
As a former Anglican (and then briefly a NO Catholic), an SSPX priest determined a few months ago that I should officially abjure my old heretical beliefs. Which I’m only too eager to do. Then recently it was determined that I should also be conditionally baptised, because although the Anglicans use the trinitarian form, they can’t be certain that the rite was done properly.
It has crossed my mind a few times that perhaps my baptism wasn’t valid, and naturally it’s far better to be safe than sorry about it. But I can’t help feeling despondent and embarrassed about having to be conditionally baptised. Here I am having gone to confession and communion regularly for over a year, thinking I was a baptized Christian and a full Catholic. :sad: The good part is that now there will be absolutely no doubts and I'll be baptised by a traditional priest whom I respect in a beautiful old chapel.
Congratulations, Grahm! What a tremendous grace to be truly baptized into the traditional Faith of our Fathers in this age!
May you treasure your faith, always learn and grow in appreciation of it, and always be faithful to prayer, especially the Rosary.
Attend mass faithfully, and receive Holy communion often. :pray:
Thank you. It is a tremendous grace indeed and it imparts an equally tremendous duty. Especially in times like these. Why was it given to me at all, and how was I worthy to receive it?
I attend mass as often as possible. Since moving into a new apartment this month I am close to my church.
-
Congratulations!
I wonder if I will have to do something like this. I know that I was not quizzed for confirmation. I think we just were asked if we knew what it meant to be confirmed. We also had to do a special project. I did a Rosary project.
I make Rosaries as a hobby, when I can find time. Making one is like praying one, only better because when finished you can have it blessed and give it away. I hand them sometimes to complete strangers and say, "here, I made this for you. God bless". They are often shocked but always express much gratitude at getting the gift. I hope that it will stir them to find out more about it if they don't know already. I always attach a Saint's medal or Miraculous medal to the chain just after the tenth Hail Mary on the decade part, between it and the Our Father, in hope that they will be interested in finding out more about said Saint or Our Lady.
That is a fantastic idea and worth emulating!
-
I've been making Rosaries for years and like theology101 I also give them away, along with a little leaflet how to pray it. I'm always pleasantly surprised how complete strangers gratefully accept the gift. I leave the rest up to Our Blessed Mother : )
-
Graham you are probably the only person I've seen here to post a picture. I'm changing my avatar to my picture for a while too. I find it's easier to be charitable with others when you can put a human face on them.
That didn't last long!
I didn't see it either, and I think I checked just a couple hours after he posted.
I had mine up for awhile but changed it back.
Believe it or not this board isn't private, lol.
-
Graham you are probably the only person I've seen here to post a picture. I'm changing my avatar to my picture for a while too. I find it's easier to be charitable with others when you can put a human face on them.
That didn't last long!
I didn't see it either, and I think I checked just a couple hours after he posted.
I had mine up for awhile but changed it back.
Believe it or not this board isn't private, lol.
Oh, I missed yours too. I've seen Telesphorus and Myrna, and I think that's all.
On principle I want to stand behind what I write. I can understand the benefits of anonymity, in some cases, but I don't have that need.
-
Congratulations, Graham.
I'm going to consult with a Priest and see if either of my sons should be confirmed (again - in the past I was N.O.).
-
Graham you are probably the only person I've seen here to post a picture. I'm changing my avatar to my picture for a while too. I find it's easier to be charitable with others when you can put a human face on them.
That didn't last long!
I didn't see it either, and I think I checked just a couple hours after he posted.
I had mine up for awhile but changed it back.
Believe it or not this board isn't private, lol.
Oh, I missed yours too. I've seen Telesphorus and Myrna, and I think that's all.
On principle I want to stand behind what I write. I can understand the benefits of anonymity, in some cases, but I don't have that need.
So true about the board not being private. It's good we protect ourselves as much as we can, especially those who might be more vulnerable. I think especially for the ladies, one can never be too safe or cautious. As a husband and a father of girls I would not want some stranger man on a forum looking at pictures of my wife or daughter, and it's good sense to be prudent.
-
Dear Graham,
God Bless you, Graham.
Congratulations!!!
It is really good that you have been conditionally Baptised.
That was one of the most important days of your life. Maybe it was THE most important day of your life.
You are striving to be a good Catholic.
You are a decent sort of chap.
You have Catholic ideas.
It is surprising that you only converted recently.
You understand things in the manner of someone who has been a Catholic for a long time.
Your consecration of yourself to Our Lady was very impressive as well.
Those are good photographs.
I’m happy for you Graham.
Congratulations again on your Baptism.
God Bless you, Graham.
Sede Catholic