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Author Topic: Hypothesis for discussion, Number One  (Read 571 times)

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Offline Stephen Francis

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Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
« on: September 01, 2013, 08:12:35 AM »
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    • "It doesn't matter if someone is Protestant or Catholic or Pentecostal or whatever; God looks at the heart. Even if somebody believes wrong things, that doesn't mean they're not a Christian. What matters is that you're sincere and your heart is right with Jesus."

    Discuss.

    (And, no, I don't mean shut the discussion down with one- or two-line statements like "how stupid" or "that's just heresy". I'd like to hear how people would refute such a statement above by the use of Holy Scripture, the Fathers, etc.)
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    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Matto

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    Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
    « Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 03:10:20 PM »
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    • Who is that a quote from?
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    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
    « Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 03:22:31 PM »
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    • Who is that a quote from?

    Hundreds, if not thousands of people I've known or spoken to, and probably millions of so-called 'evangelicals'.

    It's a very common opinion in the self-deterministic world of private interpretation of Scripture.
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    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
    « Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 03:29:04 PM »
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    • I think the error here is exposed by showing a faulty understanding of 'with Jesus.'  It is true that God will judge our hearts (how odd for a protestant to acknowledge this, which is only a step away from admitting that our works contribute to our salvation) but where they go wrong is assuming that simply because someone has a 'Christian' heart, that they are with Jesus.

    Our Lord said 'if you love me, keep my commandments.'  

    Protestants fail in the most basic ways in loving Christ, because they fail to follow His commandments which are memorialized and incarnated in His Church.

    So, the real error here is the idea that someone can be 'with Jesus' in a meaningful way and still be outside of His Church.  



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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
    « Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 03:40:09 PM »
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    • Yes, but what does one say when the protestant replies,

    "Our works don't matter because Jesus died once for all so past, present and future sins don't apply. We are sinners covered by the righteousness of Jesus and all we have to do is accept that."

    Tricky, isn't it? It's not a correct formula but it sure is comprehensive. Theres an excuse for everything.
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    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
    « Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 03:51:01 PM »
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    • It's tricky because it's dishonest.  There are TONS of scriptural references to the necessity of works.  I mean TONS.

    You should probably head here if you haven't already: http://scripturecatholic.com/justification.html

    Probably the best resource for dealing with Protestants.  Even if it doesn't convert them, it will at least cause them to shut up.  :p
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Marlelar

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    Hypothesis for discussion, Number One
    « Reply #6 on: September 01, 2013, 04:11:15 PM »
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    • More from John Salza on Salvation: here

    Saved by faith alone?  episode here

    Marsha
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