My Aunt went to a monastery for a week day mass in the early 70's and when she parked her car, she noticed hosts all over the parking lot.  She ran to tell the monk/priest and he told her,  "what do you want me to do?" She said, well only you can pick the up and he told her to pick them up herself, in a huff!

A friend of mine said she knelt down to receive Eucharist (New Order) and the priest told her to stand up. She put out her tongue and he dropped the host on the floor and told her to pick it up!  

I posted under songbird once before.  the change was so gradual.  It was my grandmother who said, "There goes the Church".  She knew.  We had a priest of the Precious Blood from 1905- 1944 and he kept the family in touch of what was coming down.  They knew! But it never bothered my mother who was born in 1931 and yet her sister, my aunt, was the only one who went from church to church trying to find the reverence due to Our Lord. She was the aunt who found the hosts in the parking lot.  She was shunned and made fun of.  No one looked up to her.  It was sad. I finally understood some of the crisis in the church and my aunt gave to me some family heirlooms.  She gave some to her daughter and her name was Sally, that was in 1996.  What happened later was a miracle!  I came home to Indiana, from AZ to visit my mom and (not) step dad, in 2000.  I asked my mom about Fr. Rudolph Stoltz (my great-great uncle).  I asked if there were pictures and info.  She gave me what she had and what the family had found on him.  I asked if we knew where he was buried. He was at Carthagenia  Ohio, buried at St. Charles Seminary, which is no longer.  They closed it in  1967.  Many seminarians in 1905 as many as 100 to 150 at a time.  So, I asked if we had pictures of the grave site, and if anyone has been there to see the seminary and all my questions were answered with no.  I asked my mom if she ever had a desire to go there. and she said, no.  But my (not) step dad said, let's go.  So, on a beautiful Saturday morning we drove there from South Whitley, IN and got to Carthagenia in 2 hours.  We found the grave site and took pictures and I was so excited!  St. Charles Seminary was on a very large acreage.  I started to walk around the campus and looked for anyone to come out of any building and the dorms were empty.  I saw another building and a doorbell, I thought, ah,modern and so I hit the doorbell and my mom was looking for me.  Well, I wanted to see it all, the chapel and just where ever Fr. Stoltz was.  The doorbell was answered by a nun in white. She was elderly.  I told her, that I and my mom/dad were here from Indiana on the behalf of Fr. Rudolph Stoltz.  She said, "Who?" and I repeated myself.  She said, I knew him.  I got all goose bumpy, you knew him!  He died in 1944 and it is the year 2000 and you knew him?!  Yes, she said, I was young and gave him blood when he was dying.  I yelled for my mom and I told her, she knew him, she knew him!!  We were invited in and we had lunch with her and other religious who were retired, staying on the campus.  After lunch a retired priest gave us a tour!  At this point, I thought, maybe this is a great time to convince my mom that the New Order destroyed the true Church.  So, on the tour, we walked the wooden floor hallways and painted pictures to kodak prints of the deans and such were framed on the walls.  We saw a bowling alley and indoor basketball rooms.  I was anxious to see the chapel.  We walked passed the statue of St. Gaspar the founder of the Precious Blood.  We made it to the chapel.  After the tour guide priest point features out, I thought, this is it.  I asked where is the main altar?  I was hoping to see the altar where Fr. Stotlz said Mass.  Oh, we got this beautiful mosaic from Germany on the wall and we have this, pointing to the table.  I said, oh, that is so sad! He said, no, it is a change and a good change.  I asked was there anything else that was originally here?  Yes, we had side altars.  I asked where are they?  He said, in the basement.  In the basement, I said with hurt, that's awful!  That this point my mom was staring at me to be quiet, behave.  I said, I would like to see the side altars.  So, we went to the damp, musky basement and the side altars were drab like bathroom stalls.  I said, this is awful, why did you put them here?!  The priest said, oh, it was a money issue.  I shook my head in disappointment.  It would take no money to just keep them in the chapel.  My mom was real mad with me at this point.  The tour was over and I knew was in for it!  When we got into the car I thought, I am alone on this trip and I will not go home for  another week.  When we were in the car, my mom blew up at me.  Why, why do you think you know its all!  Why couldn't you just keep your mouth shut.  I said, Mom, don't you see the destruction?  She said, "all I want to know, is why Fr. Stotlz wanted to be a priest or what got him to be one.  I thought oh, good, and I said to my mom, we will pray about it and we will get an answer. I prayed for a year and told Fr. Stoltz that his great niece ,my mom was putting him to the test.  And I told Fr. Stoltz, that in order to get an answer like that, it would have to come straight from the horses mouth. The next year, 2001, was my mom's 70th birthday.  Our family saved all year to travel home to Indiana.  We got our rental van and drove to mom's.  As soon as we got out of the van, my mom looked at me and said she had a surprise for me. I thought, this better be it!!  She sat me down.  Mom went to her bedroom and came into the living room and in her hand was old paper tearing at the folds.  I was shaking, crying and smiling all at the same time.  It was a letter dated May 28, 1905! (My mom's birth date is May 28) The letter had a sketch of St Charles seminary, and ink stamp of the picture of Sel. Gaspar.  I told my mom, a letter, from Fr. Stoltz, it's a miracle!!  I didn't know where to begin read the letter  and then ask questions. So, I read  his penmanship.  The letter was addressed to my mom's dad, Herman.  Dear Herman, as I read in my last letter, you will receive your 1st holy Eucharist next Sunday.(Herman was his nephew) No doubt you are anxious  by waiting for that happy day.  It is the happiest day in one's life.  Do all tht is in your power to receive your Lord and God with the  greatest devotion . Ask our dear Lord to enlighten you and direct you that you may know holy vocation.  It was on my first Holy Communion day that I received a strong inclination to study for the holy priesthood and I daily pray that God may give me the grace to carry out His divine will.  I will also pray for you that Jesus who will enter your heart for the first time, will give you all the graces you stand in need of. Remember me also in your prayers.  At the top corner of this letter you will notice our founder who was just recently beatified.  On the other side is a drawing of the chapel which is being built. The letter goes on to say hello to family members.  I was so excited! the letter answered mom's question and mine as well!  Oh, how happy I was.  I made copies of the letter for everyone in our family!  Did it change my mom? No.  Did it open eyes to any of my 8 siblings? No.  I asked my mom, "did you have this letter all this time?  No, she found it.  Well, how did you find it, mom?  I went to your cousin Sally's house (her mother, my aunt) looking for pictures of a model A ford car, that Uncle Raymond, my mom's brother, owned at one time.  A man who restores cars, wanted something to go by.  So, my mom found the folded up letter in the heirlooms that my aunt, Sally's mom, had given to Sally to care for.  Mom said she never knew the letter existed.  What a miracle!  I have the letter and Fr. Stoltz's picture on our buffet.  Whenever I need hope, I just look at him and his letter and smile.  There are miracles to have, and they can happen!!

I think this is a great question. Some of the answers presume that the knowledge and understanding we have today is the same as those that endured the beginning of VII. To believe it is such a simple thing to notice the changes going on and then doing something about it right then is arrogant of our generation. I'm tired of reading what seems to be this sense of superiority among some of newer generation Trads who are just aghast that our grandparents, parents just went along for the ride. Seemingly doing nothing. We did not walk in their shoes. We did not take their journey.

I present my in-laws for an example. They attended daily Mass since childhood in the 20's, 30's. Have been devout in saying their rosaries daily, prayers and in that time raising a family as they got older.

This question was posed to them "How did you react to the changes that were occurring with the implementation of VII?" They mentioned that the city they lived in at the time, Milwaukee- was one of the 'test cities' prior to full integration of the changes. So if there was a priest that was facing the congregation during Mass, or the introduction of the 'friendly priest and nun', etc it was first done in the Milwaukee area. My father in law has said that the change was so subtle, so small that it was not recognizable. He gives the example of the lobster in cold water and then slowly turning up the heat. Further, they were assured by their Bishop that this was fine, acceptable. Recall this is a time when believing a Bishop was perfectly fine, and no reason to question them.

By the time the late 80's rolled around they looked around them with open eyes and found themselves bereft of the Faith of their youth. They had a Bishop who was clearly (per my father in law) "either insane,  a fairy, or some wacko from a box of Cracker Jacks." (He's referring to Rembert Weakland).  They had no idea that there was something called Traditional Catholics. It was introduced to them by another family member who has identified themselves as sedevacantist. However, to my in-laws the SV ideas though very attractive was repugnant only because of the total rejection of the papacy since whatever Pope to them sounded very Protestant. This woke them up to other avenues within the Catholic Church. They finally found the SSPX and needless to say for a couple of old fogey's they were beyond thrilled to find that the Church they have known all their life did not die or go away.

Among the family, there are plenty of the N.O. Catholics. Many who have tried to convince the in-laws that going to a Trad chapel is just wrong, evil, stupid, crazy. Whatever negative nouns you can think of was thrown at them. They were ignored and patronized for following their faith. It has gotten to the point now that resolution of this impasse is simply ignore the elephant in the room as we're talking 8 siblings for one in-law and 12 for the other in-law. Too valuable to allow this to split the family. Each have said their peace, all have respectfully disagreed and then they have a glass of wine and play Cribbage.

"... wrong, evil, stupid, crazy. Whatever negative nouns ..."
 
Those aren't nouns, they're adjectives.

But Catholics, chapel, nouns, point, faith, resolution, impasse, elephant, room,
siblings, in-law, family, peace, glass, wine, and cribbage are all nouns.

To make them negative nouns, that would be non-Catholics, non-chapel,
pointless, unfaith, non-resolution, passe, non-elephant, non-room, non-siblings,
outlaw, not family, war, non-glass, non-wine, and non-cribbage.

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Quote from: Santo Subito

Maizar,

I have heard the implementation of VCII in Eastern Europe heralded as one of the success stories of VCII. Is this not true? They say the implementation did not go well in the West but it went very well in Africa and Eastern Europe. Thoughts?

That's a different topic - maybe you should start a new thread.

Santo Subito,

I want to also venture forth that anything that is proclaimed a success, particularly when we can't actually verify it, and coming from the Novus Ordites, well, we can probably chalk it up to a lie.

I'll rephrase my above paragraph just to clarify it.  When someone is telling you something that happened overseas and can't be verified with reliable information, you can hold that view as suspicious.  

One thing's for sure.  The novus ordites and the 2nd Vatican Council are people who do their business with just a touch of deception.

It's all part of liberalism, which is a sin. They promote their own agenda, and they
attempt to suppress anything they don't like. Modernists do it too. As is describes in
Pascendi, they make a circle around the person who they want to suppress, and
they fold their arms, turning their back to the one in the center. It's a graphic image
that sticks in your mind. That tactic doesn't work so well on the Internet, but it was
applicable to a simpler time before all the bells and whistles. Now, it is the goal of
liberals to control the Internet so as to get back some of the influence they had
before it came along.