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Author Topic: How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?  (Read 5212 times)

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Offline ardevain1

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How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
« on: July 22, 2013, 12:54:30 PM »
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  • In his first epistle to the Corinthians (ch. 14, v. 34) the Apostle Paul said:
    Mulíeres in ecclésiis táceant, non enim permíttitur eis loqui, sed súbditas esse, sicut et lex dicit.
    (Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.)
    The Church has always followed this in that women, as good as they may be -- and I am married to one of the best --  do not have ANY leadership roles or official duties in the Church itself.  They can teach in the schools, sing as part of the congregation, confess their sins, receive the Holy Eucharist, and, if they do things right, even get to heaven.

    This being said, I would ask your forbearance as I relate some things that have happened in our "parish" and ask if anyone else has experienced the same or similar.

    Back in early 2012 (or maybe it was late 2011), it was made known here that the Sisters of the SSPX were considering our "parish" for a new foundation, and that "we" were in competition with another location.  Our "pastor" advised us all that we should pray that the Sisters should choose us, because it would be so great to have traditional nuns among us.  Many of us did so.  And the Sisters did choose our location.  The following is my testimony:

    1- Upon their arrival, the local gentleman who had been the Sacristan for several years was relieved of his duties, and the Sacristy was given over to the community of Sisters.
    2- The Sisters Set up the Altar before Mass, with the removal of the vesperale, setting up cruets, Missal, Altar Cards; and they enter and leave the Sanctuary in a manner that some describe as "boldly".
    3- In the Sacristy the Sisters handle the Sacred Vessels with their bare hands, and the "pastor" allowed, and continues to allow this to happen.  When queried why they do this, one of the Sisters replied, "That's the way we've always done it."
    4- During the public recitation of the Daily Rosary, each of the Priests present will lead a decade of the Rosary, and then, before any of the HNS men present are allowed to take up the lead, one of the Sisters will lead the public in praying a decade. This is explained as "they have a rule that says they must do so." (I cannot understand how an order of traditional Nuns could have a "rule" that requires women to lead public prayer.)
    5- The Sisters have taken over as the Schola Cantarum, and they now sing the propers of any High Mass.  The men who had sung before, and are always willing to resume singing the Mass, are not only prevented from singing in the choir, but, because the Sisters have a "rule" that they are not allowed to sing in mixed choirs, the men have been totally excluded from it. The men are allowed, however, to sing the propers on the rare occasion that the Sisters permit it.
    6- A group of "gentlemen of the parish" called upon the "pastor" to voice their opposition to this scandalous stuff. The "pastor" yelled at them, called them "rebels" and told them to shut up because they had no say in the matter.
    7- The nuns acting like this have scandalized a number of "parishioners" and even a few people who visit the Church.  It is rare that visitors are seen again.

    I say that what the Sisters are doing here is against the tradition of the Church. They should have absolutely no assigned duties within the Church building at all. They should never be "east of the Altar Rail." To lead public prayer in the Church is not something that women, even these "Brides of Christ," should do.  And the Schola Cantorum[/u] should be only men, even though they may sing less "like angels."

    My question to TradCats in general is: Does this happen everywhere the SSPX Sisters go, and am I alone in thinking it wrong?  Saint Paul said that this is "The Law." Does this indicate a "direction" in which the SSPX is going?

    ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
    If you are a Catholic and still breathing air, you are a member of the Church Militant![/i] If you are not fighting under Jesus Christ's banner, remember there is a penalty for "dereliction of duty."


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #1 on: July 22, 2013, 01:06:01 PM »
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  • Does anyone in Spokane, WA with the CMRI or any SSPV chapel have any issues with nuns?  

    How about novur ordites?  

    I would imagine nuns taking over as sacristans and taking over the choir would be par for the course.  


    Offline Matto

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #2 on: July 22, 2013, 01:21:50 PM »
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  • At least they are not extraordinary ministers.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 01:27:04 PM »
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  • The SSPX behaves as though you're supposed to consider the ground priests and religious walk on hallowed.

    Until they stand up for what they believe.  Then they're out on their ears.

    It seems to me pride of place is very fundamental to SSPX culture -and this is a problem that is leading to their dissolution.  Of course feminism will take root in such a culture.

    Offline ardevain1

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 01:36:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    At least they are not extraordinary ministers.


    Small consolation.
    If you are a Catholic and still breathing air, you are a member of the Church Militant![/i] If you are not fighting under Jesus Christ's banner, remember there is a penalty for "dereliction of duty."


    Offline Matto

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 01:36:41 PM »
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  • I wonder if the nuns are sinning by acting the way you describe. One thing I don't like about my chapel is that they allow women to help setting up the altar and taking it down at the end of Mass in my hotel room chapel. I thought only men were supposed to touch the altar.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 01:46:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    I wonder if the nuns are sinning by acting the way you describe. One thing I don't like about my chapel is that they allow women to help setting up the altar and taking it down at the end of Mass in my hotel room chapel. I thought only men were supposed to touch the altar.


    Consult the priest about this practice.  If a hotel room is being set up for Mass, there may be emergency rules that you are unaware of.  

    I mentioned something to a CMRI priest regarding something I was unfamiliar with and he not only told me it was perfectly acceptable but agreed to show me the pre-Vatican II rulebook giving permission for this practice.  

    Offline Matto

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 01:50:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Consult the priest about this practice.  If a hotel room is being set up for Mass, there may be emergency rules that you are unaware of.



    Yes. I am sure my priest knows more about this than I do. Good advice.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline MyrnaM

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 01:56:15 PM »
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  • I am not familiar with what the nuns can do or what they can't do, the nuns at Mount St. Michael are very busy, some teach, some work in their convent, doing cooking, cleaning, laundry, but most of them as far as I know are known throughout as the Singing Nuns.  http://www.cmri.org/sisters-singingnuns.shtml

    Some of them visit the nursing homes in the area, pass out rosaries or scapulars, and sing to the people there.
     
    I can't ever remember seeing them on the altar or doing anything with the holy objects.  I have seen them decorate the Church for Christmas, the Christmas trees, nativity, that sort of work.

    I see them walking the grounds, with rosary in their hand.

    Running their gift store, taking and filling orders then getting them ready for mailing.  As I said, many of them teach, so they are always excited to get their class rooms in order.

    They also, a few of them run CMRI web sites.  

    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline ardevain1

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 02:07:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    At least they are not extraordinary ministers.


    I suspect that, if the "pastor" were to ask any of the Sisters to actually come into the Sanctuary and serve Mass (not that the "pastor" would EVER do such a thing), the response would not be "I'm sorry, Father, but that is against the Tradition of the Church, so I cannot do that." I think the very best one might get is "Well, Father, if you REALLY want me to, I will."

    ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
    If you are a Catholic and still breathing air, you are a member of the Church Militant![/i] If you are not fighting under Jesus Christ's banner, remember there is a penalty for "dereliction of duty."

    Offline ardevain1

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 02:14:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    I wonder if the nuns are sinning by acting the way you describe.


    I am not in the position to judge the state of anyone's soul.  I am assured by Faith that Jesus will be able to judge this much better than I would ever hope to be able to.
    If you are a Catholic and still breathing air, you are a member of the Church Militant![/i] If you are not fighting under Jesus Christ's banner, remember there is a penalty for "dereliction of duty."


    Offline Incredulous

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 09:01:05 PM »
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  • I would make a guess, that the boldness of the SSPX nuns started around the time Bp. Williamson was transferred out of the Winona seminary.

    After +W left, the seminarians' formation appears to have become softer, more "laid-back", so to say.

    The reciprocal response from the Sisters would be to fill the vacuum and become bolder in the sanctuary.

    There have been topics on CI which describe the changes in seminary classes since His Excellency's departure from that seminary in 2003.

    The jist of the changes are that the neoSSPX seminarians are more of a "yes men" than their predecessors.  This is by design, making it easier to integrate into newChurch, without many objections.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 09:56:04 PM »
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  • Weren't rabbis giving talks at sspx seminaries?   Yikes
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Rosemary

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #13 on: July 22, 2013, 10:03:49 PM »
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  • Saint Therese of Lisieux, the Little Flower, was a sacristan in her Carmelite convent.  
    Mariae Nunquam Servus Peribit

    Offline Frances

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    How widespread is this Traditional Catholic Feminism?
    « Reply #14 on: July 22, 2013, 10:03:52 PM »
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  •  :dancing-banana:-----"Hah-vah, Nah-gi-lah, Hah-vah, Nah-gi-lah...!"

    When Bishop Williamson was Rector of the SSPX Seminary in Ridgefield, CT, he had a rabbi come for a talk.  Rav whatever-was-his-name was there for a meal.  Not only did he bring his own (kosher) food, he ate at a separate table from everyone and brought his own place-setting, cutlery and napkins, lest he become defiled. That made more of an impression than anything he had to say.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.