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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: CatholicInAmerica on November 04, 2019, 11:35:18 AM

Title: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: CatholicInAmerica on November 04, 2019, 11:35:18 AM
I am a senior in high school and my school is novus ordo. Myself and a few of my friends who attend the sspv or SSPX are attempting to make our school trad. I am having difficulty doing this as: the “priests” were ordained in the new rite, they refuse to hold a Latin mass even with the true priest ordained in the old rite because they are “retired”, and the brothers are all typical 1970s modernists. 

I have attempted to spread the rosary and get the word out about the 15 promises, but the brothers say that I am “too rigid”. My sodality moderator even went as far as reading a book about prayer which was aimed for all religions, when I asked why not just tell the sodality to pray the rosary he told me “it is too difficult for them to understand”. My friends and I have been viewed as hardliners by the liberal religion teachers and they now refuse to let us voice our complaints: whenever I ask for the TLM to be said at school masses, the teacher says “oh yea sure we have been praising witches since the 1960s” to mock my dislike of the novus ordo. 

Earlier today I asked the newly “ordained” “priest” for a TLM and he said they dont have the resources and would possibly have to bring people in who knew it. Could I contact the SSPX for them to say a mass? 

It seems hopeless at this school. Please give me your advice. 

The school is mariantist for reference, you could PM me for the name of the school but I’m not that comfortable giving up the exact name to everyone because I am possibly the most outspoken trad at my school and could easily be identified by a modernist staff member who would like nit hung more than to see me silenced or disciplined. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: SimpleMan on November 04, 2019, 12:05:21 PM
What you describe is humanly impossible.  The school is not going to change and become traditionalist because a few students want it that way, not under these circuмstances, not from what you describe.  I hate to say it, but if the school administration hears enough of this, they'll squash you like a bug.


I would say to use prudent means to try and get a priest who will celebrate a TLM, but that probably won't work either.


My best advice is to get your high school education over and behind you, continue to study and attend the TLM when you can, and move forward from there.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: CatholicInAmerica on November 04, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
What you describe is humanly impossible.  The school is not going to change and become traditionalist because a few students want it that way, not under these circuмstances, not from what you describe.  I hate to say it, but if the school administration hears enough of this, they'll squash you like a bug.


I would say to use prudent means to try and get a priest who will celebrate a TLM, but that probably won't work either.


My best advice is to get your high school education over and behind you, continue to study and attend the TLM when you can, and move forward from there.
This is becoming more clear to me, so now the question would be: how do I get the students to tradition? How do I get my classmates to see the novus ordo sect for what it truly is: of the devil
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Nadir on November 04, 2019, 03:31:19 PM
Just ONE person at a time. That is how conversions happen. Be open, but not "inyaface". Be friendly and sensitive the the needs of your fellows, and pray and make sacrifices. God is on your side, and He will use you His way.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Jews Did 911 on November 04, 2019, 03:37:44 PM
Firstly, pray.


Secondly, fast if, or when, your state in life allows it. It could be diffiucalt being in high school.


Next, you have to use asymmetrical and covert methods to get your peers to hear you. Hand out info to trad websites that are a wealth of info on Church teachings. You don't have to agree with those sites 100% or even 80%, but they can still lead people to holy tradition and help them understand the pitfalls of the Novus Ordo. Make fliers and hand them out. Use sidewalk chalk to write down web adresses or to call attention to a Catholic or moral issue, or a thought-provoking short comment that clears their mind just for a moment so they will question the diabolical status quo. Write incredible but often censored facts on chalk/marker boards, and have the pull down projector screens blocking it, subsequently, when the teacher pulls it up - walla - a truth bomb for everyone to see and a commotion that briefly snaps some people out of their haze and might get them talking about it after class. Form a group.


The faculty and Newchurch roman collar-wearers are too far gone. They might even try to reprimand you. Don't waste your time on them.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Last Tradhican on November 04, 2019, 03:43:55 PM
This is becoming more clear to me, so now the question would be: how do I get the students to tradition? How do I get my classmates to see the novus ordo sect for what it truly is: of the devil
How did Christ do it? He was in the world for 33 years and hardly converted anyone. It took 300 years after his death for Catholics to be finally be freed from tortures from the Romans.  At it's peak, Catholicism had not touched but 15% of the world's population. It's a slow process. Start with those around you that have ears to hear and let God take care of the rest of the world.

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet". (Mat10:14)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 18, 2019, 11:31:10 PM
I am a senior in high school and my school is novus ordo. Myself and a few of my friends who attend the sspv or SSPX are attempting to make our school trad. I am having difficulty doing this as: the “priests” were ordained in the new rite, they refuse to hold a Latin mass even with the true priest ordained in the old rite because they are “retired”, and the brothers are all typical 1970s modernists.

I have attempted to spread the rosary and get the word out about the 15 promises, but the brothers say that I am “too rigid”. My sodality moderator even went as far as reading a book about prayer which was aimed for all religions, when I asked why not just tell the sodality to pray the rosary he told me “it is too difficult for them to understand”. My friends and I have been viewed as hardliners by the liberal religion teachers and they now refuse to let us voice our complaints: whenever I ask for the TLM to be said at school masses, the teacher says “oh yea sure we have been praising witches since the 1960s” to mock my dislike of the novus ordo.

Earlier today I asked the newly “ordained” “priest” for a TLM and he said they dont have the resources and would possibly have to bring people in who knew it. Could I contact the SSPX for them to say a mass?

It seems hopeless at this school. Please give me your advice.

The school is mariantist for reference, you could PM me for the name of the school but I’m not that comfortable giving up the exact name to everyone because I am possibly the most outspoken trad at my school and could easily be identified by a modernist staff member who would like nit hung more than to see me silenced or disciplined.
What you should do is to study Summorum Pontificuм. Then get a group of your fellow traditional Catholics together and make a formal request in writing for there to be a celebration of the TLM. If they refuse then go to your bishop. If he refuses then go to the Vatican. It is important that you be respectful toward all of the legitimate authorities. Keep copies of all of your correspondence.
I think you should think in terms of the long term. It may not happen while you are in school, but if there is enough of a demand then it will happen.
One thing that I think is important and will help your cause is that you should in no way say or do anything that would tell the priests of the Novus Ordo that you are in any way rejecting Vatican II. That will strengthen your position when/if you need to appeal any denial of your petitions for the TLM.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/docuмents/rc_com_ecclsdei_doc_20110430_istr-universae-ecclesiae_en.html
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on November 19, 2019, 06:41:27 PM
Quo Primum. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on November 19, 2019, 08:19:05 PM
Catholic in America,  are there any non Novus ordo pupils?



Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on November 19, 2019, 08:21:54 PM
Start up a traditional Catholic group. 


https://wdtprs.com/2014/07/traditional-young-catholics-groups-are-spreading-quickly/ (https://wdtprs.com/2014/07/traditional-young-catholics-groups-are-spreading-quickly/)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 21, 2019, 11:19:40 PM
It will very likely that you will be asked "Why do you want the TLM? or words to that effect. Your response should not be "I think that the Novus Ordo is heretical." or words to that effect. Instead you should focus on a desire for holiness, for learning, for authenticity, and for a greater communion with God.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on November 21, 2019, 11:52:34 PM
It will very likely that you will be asked "Why do you want the TLM? or words to that effect. Your response should not be "I think that the Novus Ordo is heretical." or words to that effect. Instead you should focus on a desire for holiness, for learning, for authenticity, and for a greater communion with God.  
So when asked a question, you counsel concealing certain motives. How revealing.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: ByzCat3000 on November 23, 2019, 03:58:28 PM
So when asked a question, you counsel concealing certain motives. How revealing.
I neg repped him, not because I mind his opinions but basically because the post is virtue signaling.  "I'm better than all these trads who are against the NO" lol
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 26, 2019, 10:46:54 PM
So when asked a question, you counsel concealing certain motives. How revealing.
Do you want them to eventually get the TLM or would you rather it remain banned from that place forever?
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 26, 2019, 10:48:15 PM
I neg repped him, not because I mind his opinions but basically because the post is virtue signaling.  "I'm better than all these trads who are against the NO" lol
In her autobiography St Teresa de Avila wrote that she had to use subterfuge in order to get her first reform convent started.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on November 26, 2019, 11:38:40 PM
And again you counsel lying. You are a willful, serial, habitual, unrepentant liar, a falsifier of Scripture.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 27, 2019, 02:28:30 AM
And again you counsel lying. You are a willful, serial, habitual, unrepentant liar, a falsifier of Scripture.
No, I am counseling discretion. No one is obligated to answer a question that they are not asked. No one is obligated to give information that the other person does not have the right to.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Meg on November 27, 2019, 07:44:19 AM
What you should do is to study Summorum Pontificuм. Then get a group of your fellow traditional Catholics together and make a formal request in writing for there to be a celebration of the TLM. If they refuse then go to your bishop. If he refuses then go to the Vatican. It is important that you be respectful toward all of the legitimate authorities. Keep copies of all of your correspondence.
I think you should think in terms of the long term. It may not happen while you are in school, but if there is enough of a demand then it will happen.
One thing that I think is important and will help your cause is that you should in no way say or do anything that would tell the priests of the Novus Ordo that you are in any way rejecting Vatican II. That will strengthen your position when/if you need to appeal any denial of your petitions for the TLM.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/docuмents/rc_com_ecclsdei_doc_20110430_istr-universae-ecclesiae_en.html

I agree that Summorum Pontificuм could be appealed to if a person wants a diocesan TLM at a novus Ordo high school. However, it would be wrong to say that he (the OP) is not rejecting Vatican ll, unless it's the truth (I hope it isn't). I have to agree with Mark 79 that it would be dishonest to say that Vll is not being rejected unless it is true. Lying isn't a good idea ever.

As for the OP, I agree with those who say that it's better to wait it out, and just make it through high school. The OP can just try to make a case for tradition and against Modernism with his Novus Ordo friends. Understanding the basic issues is an important start. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Pax Vobis on November 27, 2019, 08:55:39 AM
Quote
It seems hopeless at this school. Please give me your advice.
St Dominic was trying to convert heretics in his country.  He spent hours preparing a speech he was to give at a conference where he hoped to convince many heretics of their errors.  As he was preparing, he kept praying for guidance on what to say.  Our Lady appeared to him and told him not to preach about heresy, but to preach the on the rosary.  So he did just that.  St Dominic converted thousands in his life, by simply preaching about the wonders and greatness of the rosary.
.
In your case, if you cannot preach the rosary, then gather together those friends you have and say a group rosary for the school until you start seeing Our Lady make changes.  She can move the obstacles which you currently facing.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 27, 2019, 10:44:43 PM
I agree that Summorum Pontificuм could be appealed to if a person wants a diocesan TLM at a novus Ordo high school. However, it would be wrong to say that he (the OP) is not rejecting Vatican ll, unless it's the truth (I hope it isn't). I have to agree with Mark 79 that it would be dishonest to say that Vll is not being rejected unless it is true. Lying isn't a good idea ever.

As for the OP, I agree with those who say that it's better to wait it out, and just make it through high school. The OP can just try to make a case for tradition and against Modernism with his Novus Ordo friends. Understanding the basic issues is an important start.
IN this situation the OP is not required to answer any questions that he is not asked.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on November 27, 2019, 11:02:08 PM
Poche, you are a willful, serial, habitual, and unrepentant liar. You even falsified Scripture.


You willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. You substituted "you" for "it" to bolster your equally phony contention about Jorge.

Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301)
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301


Repeatedly you have partially quoted Pope St. Pius X to falsify his attitude toward the Jєωs. Representative examples: https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367) https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407 (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407) You willfully omitted:

"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jєωs from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)

You also lied when you claimed that Jorge "preached against the тαℓмυd" https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784) and that Jorge was "paraphrasing St. Paul" when Jorge said Jesus “made himself the devil.” https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082)

Your father is the father of lies and murder and you do his work.

You have claimed that Jorge has “the same view” on the Jєωs as Pope St. Pius X. https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367)  Directly to their faces Pope St. Pius X told the Jєωs of Jesus Christ and their need to convert. Jorge is the diametric opposite, not “the same.” Jorge confirms тαℓмυdic Jєωs in their Faith and teaches their heretical dogmas to Catholics. Several examples here: http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope (http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope)

You are Satan's lying sack of dirt… again and again.

Here is Jorge's full allocution: https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/ (https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/)

First, there is not one word about the тαℓмυd, not one stinking word.

Second, contrary to your assertion that Jorge preached "how Christianity is distinct from the Jєωιѕн religion," https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784) Jorge uses the metaphors of "the Open Door," "the common way," "synodality,"  Instead of making a distinction, Jorge proposes an indifferentist blend of Christ and Belial: "relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses."  The only "relation" recognized by the perennial and infallible Magisterium is that the Law of Moses died with Christ on the Cross—and, as expected, that dogma is entirely missing in Jorge's subversion.

Third, Jorge cannot bring himself to teach de fide supersessionism, that the Law of Moses is dead, so instead he infers тαℓмυdic Noahidism (http://judaism.is/noahide-deceit.html): "ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions." So Jorge did not "preach against the тαℓмυd" as you claimed. Jorge did the exact opposite; he preached тαℓмυdic Noahidism.

"Funny how you" constructed three lies in your one run-on sentence!

Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture. Get thee behind me, Satan!

Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on November 30, 2019, 04:49:19 AM
Poche, you are a willful, serial, habitual, and unrepentant liar. You even falsified Scripture.


You willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. You substituted "you" for "it" to bolster your equally phony contention about Jorge.

Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301)
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301


Repeatedly you have partially quoted Pope St. Pius X to falsify his attitude toward the Jєωs. Representative examples: https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367) https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407 (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407) You willfully omitted:

"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jєωs from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)

You also lied when you claimed that Jorge "preached against the тαℓмυd" https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784) and that Jorge was "paraphrasing St. Paul" when Jorge said Jesus “made himself the devil.” https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082)

Your father is the father of lies and murder and you do his work.

You have claimed that Jorge has “the same view” on the Jєωs as Pope St. Pius X. https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367)  Directly to their faces Pope St. Pius X told the Jєωs of Jesus Christ and their need to convert. Jorge is the diametric opposite, not “the same.” Jorge confirms тαℓмυdic Jєωs in their Faith and teaches their heretical dogmas to Catholics. Several examples here: http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope (http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope)

You are Satan's lying sack of dirt… again and again.

Here is Jorge's full allocution: https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/ (https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/)

First, there is not one word about the тαℓмυd, not one stinking word.

Second, contrary to your assertion that Jorge preached "how Christianity is distinct from the Jєωιѕн religion," https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784) Jorge uses the metaphors of "the Open Door," "the common way," "synodality,"  Instead of making a distinction, Jorge proposes an indifferentist blend of Christ and Belial: "relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses."  The only "relation" recognized by the perennial and infallible Magisterium is that the Law of Moses died with Christ on the Cross—and, as expected, that dogma is entirely missing in Jorge's subversion.

Third, Jorge cannot bring himself to teach de fide supersessionism, that the Law of Moses is dead, so instead he infers тαℓмυdic Noahidism (http://judaism.is/noahide-deceit.html): "ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions." So Jorge did not "preach against the тαℓмυd" as you claimed. Jorge did the exact opposite; he preached тαℓмυdic Noahidism.

"Funny how you" constructed three lies in your one run-on sentence!

Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture. Get thee behind me, Satan!
What does any of this have to do with introducing the TLM to a Novus Ordo high school?
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on November 30, 2019, 05:11:37 AM
You keep asking "why," but you have been repeatedly answered—because you are an unrepentant, willful, serial, habitual liar, nothing you say can be trusted, not even "a" and "the."
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Seraphina on November 30, 2019, 05:56:51 PM
Huh? I thought this was about a young man wanting to have his Novus ordo high school become more traditional.  But I see it's turned into a name calling contest between two guys. :fryingpan:
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 01, 2019, 11:29:51 PM
Huh? I thought this was about a young man wanting to have his Novus ordo high school become more traditional.  But I see it's turned into a name calling contest between two guys. :fryingpan:
I would sincerely like to help them in their efforts and I would be interested if you have anything to contribute toward this regard.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 01, 2019, 11:57:51 PM
Huh? I thought this was about a young man wanting to have his Novus ordo high school become more traditional.  But I see it's turned into a name calling contest between two guys. :fryingpan:
Here are the verifiable facts about the "name-calling."

Read what Poche said. Check his claimed source. Report back to us, especially if you enjoy having a serial liar among us.
Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture.
You willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. You substituted "you" for "it" to bolster your equally phony contention about Jorge. 
Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301
Repeatedly you have partially quoted Pope St. Pius X to falsify his attitude toward the Jєωs. Representative examples: https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407 You willfully omitted:
"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jєωs from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)
You also lied when you claimed that Jorge "preached against the тαℓмυd" https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 and that Jorge was "paraphrasing St. Paul" when Jorge said Jesus “made himself the devil.” https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082 
Your father is the father of lies and murder and you do his work.
You have claimed that Jorge has “the same view” on the Jєωs as Pope St. Pius X. https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367  Directly to their faces Pope St. Pius X told the Jєωs of Jesus Christ and their need to convert. Jorge is the diametric opposite, not “the same.” Jorge confirms тαℓмυdic Jєωs in their Faith and teaches their heretical dogmas to Catholics. Several examples here: http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope 
You are Satan's lying sack of dirt… again and again.
Here is Jorge's full allocution: https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/
First, there is not one word about the тαℓмυd, not one stinking word.
Second, contrary to your assertion that Jorge preached "how Christianity is distinct from the Jєωιѕн religion,"  https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784  Jorge uses the metaphors of "the Open Door," "the common way," "synodality,"  Instead of making a distinction, Jorge proposes an indifferentist blend of Christ and Belial: "relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses."  The only "relation" recognized by the perennial and infallible Magisterium is that the Law of Moses died with Christ on the Cross—and, as expected, that dogma is entirely missing in Jorge's subversion.
Third, Jorge cannot bring himself to teach de fide supersessionism, that the Law of Moses is dead, so instead he infers тαℓмυdic Noahidism: "ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions." So Jorge did not "preach against the тαℓмυd" as you claimed. Jorge did the exact opposite; he preached тαℓмυdic Noahidism.
"Funny how you" constructed three lies in your one run-on sentence!
Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture. Get thee behind me, Satan!
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 02, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
Here are the verifiable facts about the "name-calling."

Read what Poche said. Check his claimed source. Report back to us, especially if you enjoy having a serial liar among us.
Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture.
You willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. You substituted "you" for "it" to bolster your equally phony contention about Jorge.
Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301
Repeatedly you have partially quoted Pope St. Pius X to falsify his attitude toward the Jєωs. Representative examples: https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407 You willfully omitted:
"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jєωs from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)
You also lied when you claimed that Jorge "preached against the тαℓмυd" https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 and that Jorge was "paraphrasing St. Paul" when Jorge said Jesus “made himself the devil.” https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082
Your father is the father of lies and murder and you do his work.
You have claimed that Jorge has “the same view” on the Jєωs as Pope St. Pius X. https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367  Directly to their faces Pope St. Pius X told the Jєωs of Jesus Christ and their need to convert. Jorge is the diametric opposite, not “the same.” Jorge confirms тαℓмυdic Jєωs in their Faith and teaches their heretical dogmas to Catholics. Several examples here: http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope
You are Satan's lying sack of dirt… again and again.
Here is Jorge's full allocution: https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/
First, there is not one word about the тαℓмυd, not one stinking word.
Second, contrary to your assertion that Jorge preached "how Christianity is distinct from the Jєωιѕн religion,"  https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784  Jorge uses the metaphors of "the Open Door," "the common way," "synodality,"  Instead of making a distinction, Jorge proposes an indifferentist blend of Christ and Belial: "relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses."  The only "relation" recognized by the perennial and infallible Magisterium is that the Law of Moses died with Christ on the Cross—and, as expected, that dogma is entirely missing in Jorge's subversion.
Third, Jorge cannot bring himself to teach de fide supersessionism, that the Law of Moses is dead, so instead he infers тαℓмυdic Noahidism: "ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions." So Jorge did not "preach against the тαℓмυd" as you claimed. Jorge did the exact opposite; he preached тαℓмυdic Noahidism.
"Funny how you" constructed three lies in your one run-on sentence!
Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture. Get thee behind me, Satan!
I would ask that in this thread and others like it we set aside our disagreements so that we can strategize on the best manner of bringing the TLM to more people.   
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 03, 2019, 12:00:23 AM
I would ask that in this thread and others like it we set aside our disagreements so that we can strategize on the best manner of bringing the TLM to more people.  
Ask that AFTER you ABJURE, REPENT, MAKE REPARATION FOR, and DO NOT REPEAT your unrepented, willful, serial, habitual lies, including falsification of Scripture.

Until then nothing is set aside.

Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture. You are a lying sack of dirt.


You willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. You substituted "you" for "it" to bolster your equally phony contention about Jorge.

Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301)
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301


Repeatedly you have partially quoted Pope St. Pius X to falsify his attitude toward the Jєωs. Representative examples: https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367) https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407 (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/pius-xii-and-ww2-pius-the-liberal-and-roncalli-the-conservative/msg674407/#msg674407) You willfully omitted:

"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jєωs from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jєωs have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people.... If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". (Pope St. Pius X)

You also lied when you claimed that Jorge "preached against the тαℓмυd" https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784) and that Jorge was "paraphrasing St. Paul" when Jorge said Jesus “made himself the devil.” https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg671082/#msg671082)

Your father is the father of lies and murder and you do his work.

You have claimed that Jorge has “the same view” on the Jєωs as Pope St. Pius X. https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/another-gift-for-the-rabbi/msg675367/#msg675367)  Directly to their faces Pope St. Pius X told the Jєωs of Jesus Christ and their need to convert. Jorge is the diametric opposite, not “the same.” Jorge confirms тαℓмυdic Jєωs in their Faith and teaches their heretical dogmas to Catholics. Several examples here: http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope (http://judaism.is/st.-francis-on-francis.html#тαℓмυdicantipope)

You are Satan's lying sack of dirt… again and again.

Here is Jorge's full allocution: https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/ (https://zenit.org/articles/holy-father-continues-catecheses-on-acts-of-the-apostles/)

First, there is not one word about the тαℓмυd, not one stinking word.

Second, contrary to your assertion that Jorge preached "how Christianity is distinct from the Jєωιѕн religion," https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784 (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/pope-francis-said-51197/msg672784/#msg672784) Jorge uses the metaphors of "the Open Door," "the common way," "synodality,"  Instead of making a distinction, Jorge proposes an indifferentist blend of Christ and Belial: "relation between faith in Christ and the observance of the Law of Moses."  The only "relation" recognized by the perennial and infallible Magisterium is that the Law of Moses died with Christ on the Cross—and, as expected, that dogma is entirely missing in Jorge's subversion.

Third, Jorge cannot bring himself to teach de fide supersessionism, that the Law of Moses is dead, so instead he infers тαℓмυdic Noahidism (http://judaism.is/noahide-deceit.html): "ask them only to reject idolatry and all its expressions." So Jorge did not "preach against the тαℓмυd" as you claimed. Jorge did the exact opposite; he preached тαℓмυdic Noahidism.

"Funny how you" constructed three lies in your one run-on sentence!

Poche, you are a serial habitual liar, even a Falsifier of Scripture. Get thee behind me, Satan!

Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 03, 2019, 12:09:36 AM
On tonight's menu: False piety, Willful misrepresentation of St. Pius X, Distortion of Scripture, Feigned folksy simplicity, Kowtowing to the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan, and, for dessert, a Context-free copy-and-paste of Mit Brennender Sorge.

...all bathed in butter, and drenched in cheese sauce, of course.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 03, 2019, 02:37:43 AM
You keep asking "why," but you have been repeatedly answered—because you are an unrepentant, willful, serial, habitual liar, nothing you say can be trusted, not even "a" and "the."
My one wish is to promote the beauty and joy of the authentic Catholic Tradition.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Aleah on December 03, 2019, 05:06:05 AM


Mark79: Wow, you really can be an asshole... sheesh.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Meg on December 03, 2019, 05:14:36 AM
And again you counsel lying. You are a willful, serial, habitual, unrepentant liar, a falsifier of Scripture.

I can understand your frustration with Poche. But I'm fairly sure that we aren't supposed to post the same thing (as you do above) over and over and over again. There a forum rule against that. I think.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Bonaventure on December 03, 2019, 09:05:52 AM
I can understand your frustration with Poche. But I'm fairly sure that we aren't supposed to post the same thing (as you do above) over and over and over again. There a forum rule against that. I think.

Maybe I missed it, but where's the post where Poche not only admits that he falsified scripture, but apologizes for it? Or, alternatively, the post where he refutes such allegations? I haven't seen it.  If you know where it is, please post a link to it.

Otherwise, Poche has undoubtedly seen the allegation, as he's used it in non sequitur responses to it.  So what's the excuse?  If I were accused of having falsified scripture, I sure would want to either refute any such allegation, or apologize profusely for it; I've seen neither.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 03, 2019, 09:52:13 AM
Maybe I missed it, but where's the post where Poche not only admits that he falsified scripture, but apologizes for it? Or, alternatively, the post where he refutes such allegations? I haven't seen it.  If you know where it is, please post a link to it.

Otherwise, Poche has undoubtedly seen the allegation, as he's used it in non sequitur responses to it.  So what's the excuse?  If I were accused of having falsified scripture, I sure would want to either refute any such allegation, or apologize profusely for it; I've seen neither.
Truly so.
Similarly Meg has not abjured her Sede Tourette's anathemas.
She has made herself an accomplice of Poochie by defending his presence here, falsely insisting that the (sententia communis)  opinions of sedevacantists warrant the same damnation at Poochie's (propositio haeretica) Double Covenant heresy.
Meg has not abjured her sede anathemas even though she has repeatedly been rebutted by Ott's exposition of the grades of Theological Certitude.
(http://judaism.is/images/ott%20theological%20certainty1.jpg?crc=356325734) (http://judaism.is/images/ott%20theological%20certainty2.jpg?crc=4259809260) (http://judaism.is/images/ott%20theological%20certainty3.jpg?crc=3996388706)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 10:04:45 AM
If I were accused of having falsified scripture, I sure would want to either refute any such allegation, or apologize profusely for it; I've seen neither.

Agreed. Similarly, if any of us were publicly accused of the monstrous heresy of denying the very Divinity of Our Lord, I'm sure none of us would waste a second before loudly, publicly, explicitly denying that slander, and just as loudly, publicly, and explicitly affirming and proclaiming our belief in His Divinity. The putative "Bishop of Rome," however, apparently sees no such need.

So Poche is just following the Bergoglian example in his assent-giving silence.

"iHagan lio!"
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 10:11:13 AM

Mark79: Wow, you really can be an asshole... sheesh.


Well, that confirms my suspicions that in many a "Trad" woman there's a Sarah Silverman itching to get out.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Last Tradhican on December 03, 2019, 10:16:39 AM
I would ask that in this thread and others like it we set aside our disagreements so that we can strategize on the best manner of bringing the TLM to more people.  
The whole Catholic world went to the Latin Mass up to like 1970, and it did nothing for them. If bringing the Latin Mass to more people is your goal, then your standards are very low. The Latin Mass is not a magical end all be all. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 10:22:13 AM
I would ask that in this thread and others like it we set aside our disagreements so that we can strategize on the best manner of bringing the TLM to more people.  


With all this in mind, one understands how it is that the Modernists express astonishment when they are reprimanded or punished. What is imputed to them as a fault they regard as a sacred duty. They understand the needs of consciences better than anyone else, since they come into closer touch with them than does the ecclesiastical authority. Nay, they embody them, so to speak, in themselves. Hence, for them to speak and to write publicly is a bounden duty. Let authority rebuke them if it pleases — they have their own conscience on their side and an intimate experience which tells them with certainty that what they deserve is not blame but praise. Then they reflect that, after all, there is no progress without a battle and no battle without its victims; and victims they are willing to be like the prophets and Christ Himself. They have no bitterness in their hearts against the authority which uses them roughly, for after all they readily admit that it is only doing its duty as authority. Their sole grief is that it remains deaf to their warnings, for in this way it impedes the progress of souls, but the hour will most surely come when further delay will be impossible, for if the laws of evolution may be checked for a while they cannot be finally evaded. And thus they go their way, reprimands and condemnations not withstanding, masking an incredible audacity under a mock semblance of humility. While they make a pretense of bowing their heads, their minds and hands are more boldly intent than ever on carrying out their purposes. And this policy they follow willingly and wittingly, both because it is part of their system that authority is to be stimulated but not dethroned, and because it is necessary for them to remain within the ranks of the Church in order that they may gradually transform the collective conscience. And in saying this, they fail to perceive that they are avowing that the collective conscience is not with them, and that they have no right to claim to be its interpreters.

-St. Pius X, Pascendi Dominici Gregis
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: karambit on December 03, 2019, 10:43:49 AM
Quote
Aleah says:

Mark79, Wow, you really can be an asshole... sheesh.

Insulated by female privilege, will it be enough to stop the ban hammer for having violated the forum's rules not to insult other members? Or is the ban hammer only for men exhibiting "toxic masculinity"?
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: karambit on December 03, 2019, 11:16:18 AM
Quote
poche says:

My one wish is to promote the beauty and joy of the authentic Catholic Tradition.



(https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/020/944/888/small/d83371a04c1a8ff9.jpg?1575393341)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: forlorn on December 03, 2019, 01:01:03 PM
Insulated by female privilege, will it be enough to stop the ban hammer for having violated the forum's rules not to insult other members? Or is the ban hammer only for men exhibiting "toxic masculinity"?
When has a man EVER been banned for just calling someone an asshole? I suppose you'd have a harder time playing the perpetual victim if you ever stuck to the truth.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 01:51:38 PM

Edit.


 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=%2Furl%3Fsa%3Di%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dimages%26cd%3D%26ved%3D%26url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fknowyourmeme.com%252Fmemes%252Ftips-fedora%26psig%3DAOvVaw0t6NJHXDvYcVck6LFU-Gaj%26ust%3D1575489052357919&psig=AOvVaw0t6NJHXDvYcVck6LFU-Gaj&ust=1575489052357919)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Meg on December 03, 2019, 02:22:40 PM
Maybe I missed it, but where's the post where Poche not only admits that he falsified scripture, but apologizes for it? Or, alternatively, the post where he refutes such allegations? I haven't seen it.  If you know where it is, please post a link to it.

Otherwise, Poche has undoubtedly seen the allegation, as he's used it in non sequitur responses to it.  So what's the excuse?  If I were accused of having falsified scripture, I sure would want to either refute any such allegation, or apologize profusely for it; I've seen neither.

Poche is hardly the only forum member who will not admit that he (or she) is wrong; nor is he the only one who will not apologize for being wrong. The sedevacantists come to mind regarding this.

Don't think that I'm a fan of Poche. I am not. I've debated issues with him, and he never admits he's wrong - I know that. But he's not the only one who is guilty of this.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Meg on December 03, 2019, 02:32:14 PM

Mark79: Wow, you really can be an asshole... sheesh.

True. And yet if any of us females complain about his behavior, we will be criticized. But I expect that from the drooling gorillas that post on this forum - those who have a problem with women. It goes along with a certain extreme segment of the trad population (and they don't support the Resistance). One gets used to it after awhile.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Jaynek on December 03, 2019, 02:41:32 PM
True. And yet if any of us females complain about his behavior, we will be criticized. But I expect that from the drooling gorillas that post on this forum - those who have a problem with women. It goes along with a certain extreme segment of the trad population (and they don't support the Resistance). One gets used to it after awhile.
So now you are insulting men in addition to your ceaseless Sede bashing.  You aren't really in a position to be lecturing Mark on netiquette.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Nadir on December 03, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
So now you are insulting men in addition to your ceaseless Sede bashing.  You aren't really in a position to be lecturing Mark on netiquette.
Jayne, I've reached my1/5th of your total upvotes. You are being shortchanged!
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Jaynek on December 03, 2019, 03:22:57 PM
St Dominic was trying to convert heretics in his country.  He spent hours preparing a speech he was to give at a conference where he hoped to convince many heretics of their errors.  As he was preparing, he kept praying for guidance on what to say.  Our Lady appeared to him and told him not to preach about heresy, but to preach the on the rosary.  So he did just that.  St Dominic converted thousands in his life, by simply preaching about the wonders and greatness of the rosary.
.
In your case, if you cannot preach the rosary, then gather together those friends you have and say a group rosary for the school until you start seeing Our Lady make changes.  She can move the obstacles which you currently facing.
This is really good advice and far more achievable than trying to get the TLM said at a Novus Ordo school.  

I think that there is not much more to be said on the actual topic of this thread which makes it especially susceptible to the sort of off topic digressions that we are seeing.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
Poche is hardly the only forum member who will not admit that he (or she) is wrong; nor is he the only one who will not apologize for being wrong. The sedevacantists come to mind regarding this.

Don't think that I'm a fan of Poche. I am not. I've debated issues with him, and he never admits he's wrong - I know that. But he's not the only one who is guilty of this.

Poche is not merely "wrong" or obstinate. He is demonstrably a bad-willed liar and heretic shilling on behalf of Bergoglio and his cabal, and probably paid to do so.

I left the forum when it was made clear that Poche is unbannable and has some kind of protected status around here. However, the tireless - and, I daresay heroic - efforts of Mark79 to make Poche's stay here as uncomfortable as possible, in the hopes that he will (God willing) leave of his own accord, has inspired me to come back and join him in that laudable campaign.

Poche is not a "challenge" to us, any more than an actual conciliar AI spambot would be. He refuses to engage in any honest debate. He has demonstrated his devotion to Modernism, Religious Indifferentism, feminism, and multiculturalism more times than can be counted. He has openly blasphemed St. John Chrysostom. He twists and perverts the words of Popes, Saints, and Sacred Scripture to further the spread of error. So, as long as this forum counts among its members women and female-brained men capable of being swayed by Poche's perfunctory outbursts of false piety and false compassion (as is attested by the fact that Poche's "likes" count is higher than 0), then he most certainly be dismissed as "harmless" as he so often is.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 04:03:24 PM
True. And yet if any of us females complain about his behavior, we will be criticized. But I expect that from the drooling gorillas that post on this forum - those who have a problem with women.

As I said, itching to get out.

(https://img.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/sarah-screenshot-cropped.jpg) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Di%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dimages%26cd%3D%26ved%3D%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.elephantjournal.com%252F2014%252F01%252Fsarah-silverman-jesus-christ-together-at-last-explicit-video%252F%26psig%3DAOvVaw0a_IzrdxSn7BIBE9l54EG0%26ust%3D1575496754063989&psig=AOvVaw0a_IzrdxSn7BIBE9l54EG0&ust=1575496754063989)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Jaynek on December 03, 2019, 04:05:47 PM
I left the forum when it was made clear that Poche is unbannable and has some kind of protected status around here. However, the tireless - and, I daresay heroic - efforts of Mark79 to make Poche's stay here as uncomfortable as possible, in the hopes that he will (God willing) leave of his own accord, has inspired me to come back and join him in that laudable campaign.
Welcome back.  I have been appreciating your posts.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Bonaventure on December 03, 2019, 04:52:00 PM
Poche is hardly the only forum member who will not admit that he (or she) is wrong; nor is he the only one who will not apologize for being wrong. The sedevacantists come to mind regarding this.

Don't think that I'm a fan of Poche. I am not. I've debated issues with him, and he never admits he's wrong - I know that. But he's not the only one who is guilty of this.

Most of what you allude to deals with differences of opinion.  And these are on generally quite complicated matters, not simple, straight-forward black/white issues.

Poche clearly misquoted scripture in order to support his unsupportable position, which makes such misquote seem quite deliberate. It's not too hard to look up the chapter/verse.  And it would be a different story if the cited verse is one known to have different translations.  If he were using some other translation, then it would be a simple matter of simply citing the proper source.  But he hasn't.  Because he can't.  Which means he's a liar.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 03, 2019, 04:57:40 PM
Poche is hardly the only forum member who will not admit that he (or she) is wrong; nor is he the only one who will not apologize for being wrong. The sedevacantists come to mind regarding this.

Don't think that I'm a fan of Poche. I am not. I've debated issues with him, and he never admits he's wrong - I know that. But he's not the only one who is guilty of this.
In point of fact, YOU do what Poche does. YOU contradict settled doctrine (the degrees of theological certitude). You continue to conflate anathematized heresy with legitimate opinions. In the face of the evidence provided from Ott, YOU have not admitted you are wrong in that point. Whether or not you like it, there are theologians whose opinions differ from yours. Disagreement on unsettled matters is NOT heresy, Behar.

Further, as soon as QVD provided evidence that I was in error in saying that cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio had not been abrogated, I immediately publicly admitted and retracted my error. Also, I immediately corrected my website. cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio has been abrogated. I deal in evidence and truth. You deal in muddle-headed emotionalism.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 03, 2019, 05:15:00 PM
I’m not sure that Poche is dealing with a full deck of cards.  I’ve never seen him carry on any intelligent conversation; most of his posts are off-topic and confusing.  If he’s truly just a bit slow, then his errors are explainable even if he lacks the mental capacity to see them as wrong.  If he is a normal guy, then he’s a horrible liar and a modernist to the core.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 03, 2019, 08:02:39 PM
I do not see "slow" in a man who can parse a docuмent to pull partial quotes and bowdlerize full quotes to invert the actual meaning. No, that takes cunning and moral depravity.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 08:12:41 PM
I do not see "slow" in a man who can parse a docuмent to pull partial quotes and bowdlerize full quotes to invert the actual meaning. No, that takes cunning and moral depravity.

Agreed 100%.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 03, 2019, 08:24:37 PM
And cunning enough to conceal his intent in plain sight:

poche
n.   A Middle English form of poke, pouch.
An obsolete form of poach.

Yes, for 7 years the moral reprobate, habitual liar has been poking, poaching, and defecating in our family gathering.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 08:43:08 PM
And cunning enough to conceal his intent in plain sight:

poche
n. A Middle English form of poke, pouch.
An obsolete form of poach.

Yes, for 7 years the moral reprobate, habitual liar has been poking, poaching, and defecating in our family gathering.

Interesting. I had interpreted "poche" in the sense of the architectural term - i.e. the black spaces in a blueprint indicating areas hidden behind walls, pillars, and other solid structures. This seemed to me to be a wink and a nod at his subterfuge, hidden behind his false piety and feigned simplicity.

Either way, it seems clear to any with sight to see that that simplicity is feigned, and falling for the feint (as many here have) is just what Poche wants.

Dovelike innocence is admirable and good, but it's worth little if we ignore the other half of Our Lord's admonishment, and fail to pair it with serpentine wisdom. Snakes abound - here as everywhere - in the "hidden spaces."

Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: JezusDeKoning on December 03, 2019, 08:54:46 PM
My one wish is to promote the beauty and joy of the authentic Catholic Tradition.
You? Of all the people on this forum. You don't even know what "authentic Catholic tradition" is.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 03, 2019, 09:16:15 PM
You? Of all the people on this forum. You don't even know what "authentic Catholic tradition" is.

As the forum's resident Elie Wiesel-like "racist hunter," I don't see why you'd have such a problem with the forum's resident Mit Brennender Sorge copy-paste-bot.

This isn't the first time I recall you being "of two minds" on a subject, JdK - https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/a-priest-resists-evil/msg364226/#msg364226 (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/a-priest-resists-evil/msg364226/#msg364226). Your "cousin" doesn't still have your login information, does he?

Is this the "Jєωιѕн mitosis" I've heard so much about?


(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1532242089007.jpg) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.4plebs.org%2Fpol%2Fthread%2F181116842%2F&psig=AOvVaw0NzB_v_lTi4bxlGj28XK3Q&ust=1575514703488391) 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: JezusDeKoning on December 03, 2019, 10:08:59 PM
I'm very open to correction on the subject of race, being challenged and adopting a different viewpoint.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 03, 2019, 10:58:12 PM
As the forum's resident Elie Wiesel-like "racist hunter," I don't see why you'd have such a problem with the forum's resident Mit Brennender Sorge copy-paste-bot.

This isn't the first time I recall you being "of two minds" on a subject, JdK - https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/a-priest-resists-evil/msg364226/#msg364226 (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/a-priest-resists-evil/msg364226/#msg364226). Your "cousin" doesn't still have your login information, does he?

Is this the "Jєωιѕн mitosis" I've heard so much about?


(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1532242089007.jpg) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.4plebs.org%2Fpol%2Fthread%2F181116842%2F&psig=AOvVaw0NzB_v_lTi4bxlGj28XK3Q&ust=1575514703488391)
Mit Brennender Sorge is an encyclical which was promulgated by Pope Pius XI, a pope of Tradition. Not once did it ever occur to him that there would ever be a Novus Ordo mass. What he said in this encyclical is the truth which also applies to us today.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 03, 2019, 11:01:38 PM
Most of what you allude to deals with differences of opinion.  And these are on generally quite complicated matters, not simple, straight-forward black/white issues.

Poche clearly misquoted scripture in order to support his unsupportable position, which makes such misquote seem quite deliberate. It's not too hard to look up the chapter/verse.  And it would be a different story if the cited verse is one known to have different translations.  If he were using some other translation, then it would be a simple matter of simply citing the proper source.  But he hasn't.  Because he can't.  Which means he's a liar.  
Rather than letting this be about me, why don't we put our heads together to strategize in how we could help this student bring the holiness of Catholic Tradition to his school.  
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Last Tradhican on December 03, 2019, 11:13:02 PM

Mark79: Wow, you really can be an asshole... sheesh.
Using such gutter language is so common today that even Catholics use it as if it is nothing. You need to learn to rise above man's fallen nature.

As far as those that agree with the above quote, it is no surprise to me, just look at their reputation scores, they are all strongly negative. In a Catholic forum, they have strongly negative scores, that says everything. By their strongly negative reputation scores you shall know them.  
Poche Reputation: +723/-3171
Meg Reputation: +1585/-2552
karabit Reputation: +16/-43

On the other hand the strongly positives:

Mark 79 Reputation: +1323/-146
Jaynek Reputation: +1632/-944
Nadir Reputation: +3364/-206
BTNYC Reputation: +2772/-21
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 04, 2019, 12:26:14 AM


(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1532242089007.jpg) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.4plebs.org%2Fpol%2Fthread%2F181116842%2F&psig=AOvVaw0NzB_v_lTi4bxlGj28XK3Q&ust=1575514703488391)
That's a keeper! Now archived. Currently meme#303 of 304 here: http://judaism.is/memes.html (http://judaism.is/memes.html)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 04, 2019, 12:28:14 AM
Rather than letting this be about me, why don't we put our heads together to strategize in how we could help this student bring the holiness of Catholic Tradition to his school.  
You have been defecating in our family gathering for 7 years.  It is overdue to fix the problem.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: CatholicInAmerica on December 04, 2019, 10:31:47 AM
You have been defecating in our family gathering for 7 years.  It is overdue to fix the problem.
You need to chill out my friend. Your long comment which you constantly copy and paste took away the discussion of the original post. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Uncle Buck on December 04, 2019, 01:12:55 PM
Quote
Last Tradhican quote:
As far as those that agree with the above quote, it is no surprise to me, just look at their reputation scores, they are all strongly negative. In a Catholic forum, they have strongly negative scores, that says everything. By their strongly negative reputation scores you shall know them.

Karambit didn't agree with Aleah's insult to Mark79. He called her out for it. I suggest you take a remedial reading course to improve your comprehension. 

Regarding Karambit's negative score, it's mererly due to vindictive feminists such as Meg and effeminate-minded boys with sodomite tendencies and black skin such as JezusDeKoning, who rally to vote down comments by newcomers (such as Karambit) rightfully calling out female privilege and the uncivilized tendencies of people of color as reflected by the strong correlation between higher violent crime and people of color.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Meg on December 04, 2019, 01:59:01 PM
Karambit didn't agree with Aleah's insult to Mark79. He called her out for it. I suggest you take a remedial reading course to improve your comprehension.

Regarding Karambit's negative score, it's mererly due to vindictive feminists such as Meg and effeminate-minded boys with sodomite tendencies and black skin such as JezusDeKoning, who rally to vote down comments by newcomers (such as Karambit) rightfully calling out female privilege and the uncivilized tendencies of people of color as reflected by the strong correlation between higher violent crime and people of color.

Have you posted here before, under a different username?
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Uncle Buck on December 04, 2019, 04:54:13 PM
Quote
meg quote:
Have you posted here before, under a different username?

https://imgflip.com/i/3ifuoh (https://imgflip.com/i/3ifuoh)
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Meg on December 04, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
https://imgflip.com/i/3ifuoh (https://imgflip.com/i/3ifuoh)

So......does that mean that you posted under the username, 'Croix de Fer?'
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Bonaventure on December 04, 2019, 05:06:30 PM
Rather than letting this be about me...

Au contraire...  you want this to be precisely about you.  Hence why you provide doctored quotes from scripture, half-quotes and half-truths on other matters, and refuse to acknowledge the same when called out on it.  In that regard, it would appear that, like a narcissist, you enjoy the attention.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Uncle Buck on December 04, 2019, 05:08:07 PM
Quote
meg quote:

So......does that mean that you posted under the username, 'Croix de Fer?'

(https://i.imgflip.com/3ifuoh.jpg)

Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Seraphina on December 04, 2019, 05:11:32 PM


Oh, yuck!  I'm afraid the OP took one look and gave up on Tradition.   :fryingpan:
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 04, 2019, 07:11:13 PM
You need to chill out my friend. Your long comment which you constantly copy and paste took away the discussion of the original post.
Your OP was answered in post #2.
You accepted post #2's answer and posed a new question in post #3.
Your new question from post #3 was answered in post #s 4-10.
In post #11 PoochDouche suggested concealing certain motives for wanting the traditional Mass.
You had plenty of answers until PoochDouche did his usual drive-by defecation.
If you tolerate such deceivers, you are not "trad," but an accomplice.

As for "long" comments, PoochDouche has made 15,201 nightly defecations. Finally a few of us are volunteering as Night Janitors cleaning up the feces that PoochDouche leaves behind. Sometime a doggy needs to have his nose rubbed in his droppings more than once before (1) becoming house trained or (2) consigned to the outside.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 04, 2019, 08:29:35 PM

So when asked a question, you counsel concealing certain motives. How revealing.
Do you want them to eventually get the TLM or would you rather it remain banned from that place forever?





You see above how PoochDouche assuages his conscience for lying, bowdlerizing quotes, and falsifying scripture.

The end justifies the means. How abject and utterly anti-Catholic!
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 04, 2019, 10:53:39 PM




You see above how PoochDouche assuages his conscience for lying, bowdlerizing quotes, and falsifying scripture.

The end justifies the means. How abject and utterly anti-Catholic!
I am not recommending that any one lie. What I am recommending is what I believe to be a prudent mental reservation. That would be similar to one used by the great saint and father of the Church, Athanasius. When he was in Alexandria, he was being chased by the soldiers of the emperor. He ran onto a boat. The soldiers chased after him. One of them said to him words to this effect, "Old man, do you know where Athanasius is?"
Athanasius said, "He is on this boat."
Off they went running below the deck in search of St Athanasius.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 05, 2019, 12:01:11 AM
As if falsifying Scripture is "mental reservation"????

You willfully falsified the Matthew 16:18. You substituted "you" for "it" to bolster your equally phony contention about Jorge.

Quote from: poche on November 07, 2019, 04:55:39 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301)
"And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you" -Jesus to Peter
https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/is-francis-the-pope/msg674301/#msg674301
 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 05, 2019, 08:35:33 AM
Quote
What I am recommending is what I believe to be a prudent mental reservation.
Poche, one is only allowed to use mental reservations in EXTREME, life or death situations.  Your use of them on an internet site is totally dishonest.  What you did was simple - you falsified the truth.  You have no integrity.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: CatholicInAmerica on December 05, 2019, 10:30:25 AM

Oh, yuck!  I'm afraid the OP took one look and gave up on Tradition.   :fryingpan:
What? 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: CatholicInAmerica on December 05, 2019, 10:32:36 AM
Your OP was answered in post #2.
You accepted post #2's answer and posed a new question in post #3.
Your new question from post #3 was answered in post #s 4-10.
In post #11 PoochDouche suggested concealing certain motives for wanting the traditional Mass.
You had plenty of answers until PoochDouche did his usual drive-by defecation.
If you tolerate such deceivers, you are not "trad," but an accomplice.

As for "long" comments, PoochDouche has made 15,201 nightly defecations. Finally a few of us are volunteering as Night Janitors cleaning up the feces that PoochDouche leaves behind. Sometime a doggy needs to have his nose rubbed in his droppings more than once before (1) becoming house trained or (2) consigned to the outside.
I agree with everything you are saying. Poche is a modernist, I agree. All I was saying is that by posting that bug reply to every comment poche makes, it detracts from the content of the thread. You say my questions were already answered but others may want to add to it. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 05, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
I agree with everything you are saying. Poche is a modernist, I agree. All I was saying is that by posting that bug reply to every comment poche makes, it detracts from the content of the thread. You say my questions were already answered but others may want to add to it.
Almost every night Poche defecates in our family gathering.
Despite pleas from some of us, Matthew refuses to ban him.
I see no other solution than to have docuмentation of his lies follow him everywhere he goes.
If you have a better plan, I am all ears.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 05, 2019, 10:57:16 PM
Poche, one is only allowed to use mental reservations in EXTREME, life or death situations.  Your use of them on an internet site is totally dishonest.  What you did was simple - you falsified the truth.  You have no integrity.
The issue involving mental reservations involve questions where someone asks something of which they do not have the right to know. You are not obligated to answer the questions to someone who does not have the right to know something.
There used to be a saying "inquiring minds want to know." Well inquiring minds don't have to receive answers to what they do not have the right to know. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 05, 2019, 11:09:42 PM
Poche, you have not used "mental reservation," but LIED OUTRIGHT.

Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 06, 2019, 08:20:54 AM
Quote
The issue involving mental reservations involve questions where someone asks something of which they do not have the right to know. You are not obligated to answer the questions to someone who does not have the right to know something.
Poche, please give us an example of a scenario where someone asked you a question that they didn't have the right to know.  Then give us your reserved response. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 08, 2019, 11:23:13 PM
Poche, please give us an example of a scenario where someone asked you a question that they didn't have the right to know.  Then give us your reserved response.
Many years ago when I lived in a different country, one of the fathers left the country on a mission. Because his country had a very complicated immigration process for people of his country to enter, he just wasn't able to come and go as he pleased. We were instructed that if we were asked, "Where is Father XXX?" We were to answer, "He is not home at the moment."
     
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 08, 2019, 11:46:52 PM
Poche, please focus.  We’re talking about YOU, and we’re talking about THIS WEBSITE.  Please provide a situation that is morally acceptable for you to “bend the truth” on an anonymous website, regarding a topic which is, by definition, NOT personal, because no one has any idea who you are.  I can’t think of any instance which allows an anonymous person to “make a mental reservation” but I’ll give you one shot to explain. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 09, 2019, 12:03:18 AM
Many years ago when I lived in a different country, one of the fathers left the country on a mission. Because his country had a very complicated immigration process for people of his country to enter, he just wasn't able to come and go as he pleased. We were instructed that if we were asked, "Where is Father XXX?" We were to answer, "He is not home at the moment."
    

Poche, are you an ordained cleric?
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: ByzCat3000 on December 09, 2019, 12:10:55 AM
Poche, are you an ordained cleric?
He's probably Pope Francis, lol
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 09, 2019, 04:19:04 AM
Poche, are you an ordained cleric?
no
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 09, 2019, 04:21:47 AM
Poche, please focus.  We’re talking about YOU, and we’re talking about THIS WEBSITE.  Please provide a situation that is morally acceptable for you to “bend the truth” on an anonymous website, regarding a topic which is, by definition, NOT personal, because no one has any idea who you are.  I can’t think of any instance which allows an anonymous person to “make a mental reservation” but I’ll give you one shot to explain.
Here is one that was very common years ago. Before there was civil rights legislation it was no unheard of for a company to ask on an application form, "What church do you go to?" The idea was to exclude Catholics from the workforce. The nuns told the young people that the correct answer would be "I go to the First Christian Church of St Peter."
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Pax Vobis on December 09, 2019, 08:09:21 AM
Poche....you have yet again not answered the question, or you are dodging the question.  We're talking about an example ON THIS WEBSITE.  You said that you used a mental reservation on this website so I'm asking for an example of this. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 09, 2019, 09:03:04 AM
"Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do." John 14:13-14

Jesus, we beg you and, Father, we beg you in the Holy Name of Your Son, Jesus, that it is Your Will to drive Poche from this place forever. We offer our fasting, alms, suffering, good works, and happiness for this intention.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 09, 2019, 09:03:44 AM
"Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do." John 14:13-14

Jesus, we beg you and, Father, we beg you in the Holy Name of Your Son, Jesus, that it is Your Will to drive Poche from this place forever. We offer our fasting, alms, suffering, good works, and happiness for this intention.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 09, 2019, 09:05:39 AM
"Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do." John 14:13-14

Jesus, we beg you and, Father, we beg you in the Holy Name of Your Son, Jesus, that it is Your Will to drive Poche from this place forever. We offer our fasting, alms, suffering, good works, and happiness for this intention.
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: BTNYC on December 09, 2019, 01:58:50 PM
no

I appreciate your post's brevity, but your answer does fairly reek of "metal reservation."
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 09, 2019, 11:36:55 PM
Poche....you have yet again not answered the question, or you are dodging the question.  We're talking about an example ON THIS WEBSITE.  You said that you used a mental reservation on this website so I'm asking for an example of this.
I don't recall ever using any mental reservations on this website. I was referring to situations in the OP's school to assist him in strategizing in how he could introduce the TLM to his Novus Ordo school.     
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: poche on December 09, 2019, 11:37:35 PM
I appreciate your post's brevity, but your answer does fairly reek of "metal reservation."
It is not a mental reservation when I say that I am not an ordained cleric. 
Title: Re: How to turn my novus ordo high school trad
Post by: Mark 79 on December 10, 2019, 01:04:33 AM
"Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do." John 14:13-14

Jesus, we beg you and, Father, we beg you in the Holy Name of Your Son, Jesus, that it is Your Will to drive Poche from this place forever. We offer our Holy Communions, fasting, alms, suffering, good works, and happiness for this intention.