Author Topic: How few are the saved?  (Read 2693 times)

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Offline Jitpring

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How few are the saved?
« on: March 26, 2011, 08:13:28 PM »
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  • A friend and I just finished a discussion of the small number of the saved. What do you think? I maintain that approximately 99.99% of Novus Ordo attendees are damned to hell, about 95% of FSSP attendees are damned to hell, and that about 92% of SSPX attendees are damned to hell (assuming the validity of confessions to SSPX priests; if they're not valid, I say the number of the damned among SSPX attendees rises to 99.99%). I further maintain that I'm most likely to be numbered among those damned to hell.

    I say all of this on the basis of Matthew 7, of course, along with other Scriptural passages. I also appeal to writings such as:

    These two by Fr. Jean Croiset (spiritual director and confessor of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque):

    Croiset 1

    &

    Croiset 2

    St. Leonard:

    The Little Number of Those are Saved

    Blessed Newman:

    Many Called, Few Chosen

    St. Montfort:

    Letter to the Friends of the Cross

    From the latter:

    My dear brothers and sisters, there are two companies that appear before you each day: the followers of Christ and the followers of the world.

    Our dear Saviour's company is on the right, climbing up a narrow road, made all the narrower by the
    world's immorality. Our Master leads the way, barefooted, crowned with thorns, covered with blood, and laden with a heavy cross. Those who follow him, though most valiant, are only a handful, either because his quiet voice is not heard amid the tumult of the world, or because people lack the courage to follow him in his poverty, sufferings, humiliations and other crosses which his servants must carry all the days of their life....Their number is so small that we would be dumbfounded if we knew it. It is so small that there is scarcely one in ten thousand, as has been revealed to several saints, including St. Simon Stylites (as is related by Abbot Nilus), St. Basil, St. Ephrem and others. It is so small that, should it please God to gather them together, he would have to call them one by one as he did of old through his prophet, 'You will be gathered one by one;' one from this country, one from that province.

    On the left hand is the company of the world or of the devil. This is far more numerous, more imposing and more illustrious, at least in appearance. Most of the fashionable people run to join it, all crowded together, although the road is wide and is continually being made wider than ever by the crowds that pour along it like a torrent. It is strewn with flowers, bordered with all kinds of amusements and attractions, and paved with gold and silver.
     
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Jitpring

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 08:25:37 PM »
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  • That labeled Croiset 2 above is actually by Bishop Massillon.
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 08:36:46 PM »
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  • Many years ago I use to subscribe to Sunday Mass tapes,
    a collection that I still have. A Traditional Catholic
    congregation that no longer exists.
    There was one sermon that haunted me to this day. In
    the sermon, the Priest said to the congregation, that he
    is convinced that he is going to hell. And he said that a
    number of times in the same sermon. He died soon
    after.
    Today, the church where he preached at is now
    abandoned, and falling into disrepair.
    Only time will tell for all of us.
    Never say that you are going to hell, unless you want
    to.

    Offline Caraffa

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 08:51:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    A friend and I just finished a discussion of the small number of the saved. What do you think? I maintain that approximately 99.99% of Novus Ordo attendees are damned to hell, about 95% of FSSP attendees are damned to hell, and that about 92% of SSPX attendees are damned to hell (assuming the validity of confessions to SSPX priests; if they're not valid, I say the number of the damned among SSPX attendees rises to 99.99%). I further maintain that I'm most likely to be numbered among those damned to hell.
     


    I definitely believe in the fewness of the saved as taught throughout the church's tradition and history, and your NO % probably isn't that far off, but I don't think it will be as low as some of your numbers. For our days, around 2-3% of the worldwide (I know that number is nowhere near accurate in reality, but go with me here) Catholic population in my view, will be saved.  
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 09:35:38 PM »
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  • Your numbers aren't correct. 99% of the NO people going to hell is close enough I guess, though I would estimate a slightly lower number than that. But the number of people in the FSSP and especially the SSPX will most likely be rather low. In fact, they will probably make up 3 fourths of those who are saved as of the current time. Then again, God decides who is saved and who is not, not us.


    Offline Raoul76

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 09:47:28 PM »
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  • Way too harsh.

    I must admit, I disagree even with the famous sermon of the fewness of the saved by St. Leonard of Port-Maurice.  I think it puts a good scare into people, and that it's useful for that purpose, but I don't think the numbers are THAT few.  I've heard that the number of souls in heaven is literally countless by human standards.  

    I don't see how souls, even if slightly lukewarm, who avoid mortal sin will be damned.  They may not be in a high place in heaven, but I don't think God will damn those who obey Him.  

    I agree with Spiritus about today.  I'd go even farther -- I'd say pretty much all the trads will be saved.  Despite the errors of SSPX, a trad in SSPX is still a passionate Catholic compared to most in history, I'd say.  I fear more for the Feeneyites, because the pride is palpable.

    The scary aspect of today is that there are more people alive than ever before, by far, and most of them are just complete apostates.  Then again, this is the Great Apostasy.  It is impossible to overstate how terrifying it is.  I don't think the human mind can even comprehend it.  Just imagine all those dense, teeming cities, all over the world, and most people are lost.  In Catholic times, however, like the Middle Ages, I'd say that 35% were saved ( since even then, mortal sin was rampant ).

    How many in the Novus Ordo will be saved?  My guess is about 10-20%.  Since God is more merciful than we can guess, and many of these people are simply ignorant.


    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline Jitpring

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 10:04:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76


    How many in the Novus Ordo will be saved?  My guess is about 10-20%.  Since God is more merciful than we can guess, and many of these people are simply ignorant.




    On the basis of ignorance, yes, you might be right. But won't we be held to account not only for what we knew, but also for what we should have known?
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

    Offline Raoul76

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 10:06:43 PM »
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  • Yeah, that's why it's only at 10%-20%.  If you've ever talked to some of these people, it seems like they don't have the intellectual capacity, they aren't the type to do research and study.  The simple folk, the rustics from all over the world, are they really going to read about sedevacantism?
    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 10:07:39 PM »
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  • If God wanted us to know, He would have told us :)

    I 'control' the eternal fate of only ONE man -- myself.  Hope to see y'all in paradise...
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 10:16:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    A friend and I just finished a discussion of the small number of the saved. What do you think?


    I think you need new friends...and this...

    Quote
    I maintain that approximately 99.99% of Novus Ordo attendees are damned to hell, about 95% of FSSP attendees are damned to hell, and that about 92% of SSPX attendees are damned to hell (assuming the validity of confessions to SSPX priests; if they're not valid, I say the number of the damned among SSPX attendees rises to 99.99%).


    ...is completely cracked...because you have no idea and such detailed speculation serves no good purpose...

    This...

    Quote
    I further maintain that I'm most likely to be numbered among those damned to hell.


    PROVES you need to lose the "friend" with whom you spoke...and go have a drink, take a walk in a beautiful place, etc :)
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Caraffa

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 10:34:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Your numbers aren't correct. 99% of the NO people going to hell is close enough I guess, though I would estimate a slightly lower number than that. But the number of people in the FSSP and especially the SSPX will most likely be rather low. In fact, they will probably make up 3 fourths of those who are saved as of the current time. Then again, God decides who is saved and who is not, not us.


    Romano Amerio made this same point in Iota Unum:

    "The Church will continue to open itself up to the world and to conform itself to that world, that is, it will continue to undo its own nature; but its supernatural life will survive, restricted to a faithful remnant, and its supernatural end will continue to be pursued faithfully by that part of it which is left in the world. The misleading well-being of a Church that is dissolving itself in the world will be matched by the progressive contraction and wretchedness of a small number of people, a tiny minority that seems insignificant and doomed to die, but which in fact contains the concentration of God's elect, an indefectible witness to the true faith. The Church will be a handful of defeated men."
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 12:06:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jitpring
    Quote from: Raoul76


    How many in the Novus Ordo will be saved?  My guess is about 10-20%.  Since God is more merciful than we can guess, and many of these people are simply ignorant.




    On the basis of ignorance, yes, you might be right. But won't we be held to account not only for what we knew, but also for what we should have known?


    Just out of curiosity, Jitpring, why do you think so many FSSP and SSPX Traditional Catholics will go to hell?

    Offline Sigismund

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 05:47:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    If God wanted us to know, He would have told us :)

    I 'control' the eternal fate of only ONE man -- myself.  Hope to see y'all in paradise...


    A big hearty Baptist-sounding but really Catholic "AMEN" to this post from Gladius Veritatis and to the one immediately below it.  It is God's judgment that matters, and He has not chosen to tell us.  On my most arrogant day I am not going to tell Him what to do.  Jesus is merciful, His Mother prays for us, and all the saints intercede for us constantly.  And St. Pio said there was hardly anyone in hell.  Since he saw the place, that must count for something.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Sigismund

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 05:50:05 PM »
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  • Ah, I see you can't like your own post.  Well, I had to try.   :cool:
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Jitpring

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    How few are the saved?
    « Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 01:18:50 PM »
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  • Spiritus, not because of anything particular to those who go to FSSP or SSPX, but only because I believe that most are bound for hell - whether they're with the FSSP, SSPX, or any other group.
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**

     

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