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Author Topic: History of the World in Book of Enoch  (Read 1126 times)

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Offline LaramieHirsch

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History of the World in Book of Enoch
« on: January 11, 2017, 01:16:37 AM »
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  • This is more of a note for me than anything else. However, I'm sure some among you might find this fascinating.  

    Presently, I am researching some stuff.  I'm currently taking a gander at the ancient Book of Enoch.  Did you know that Chapters 83-90 are an allegorical re-telling of the history and future prophecies for the world?

    Get a load of this scene, of the three sons of Noah getting out of the Ark and going out into the world to repopulate it:

    "Then the water began to run down into these, till the earth became visible; but that vessel settled on the earth, and the darkness retired and light appeared. But that white bull which had become a man came out of that vessel, and the three bulls with him, and one of those three was white like that bull, and one of them was red as blood, and one black: and that white bull departed from them."

    Book of Enoch here:

    http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2126

    Good commentary of chapter 85-90 here:

    https://readingacts.com/2016/06/22/the-animal-apocalypse-part-1-1-enoch-85-90/
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 01:25:55 AM »
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  • This guy tries to make heads or tails of it.  Interesting read if you have time:

    http://illuminate10.tripod.com/Visionsofenoch.htm
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline MyrnaM

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #2 on: January 12, 2017, 10:26:45 AM »
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  • As a Catholic I wonder if we should put much into the Book of Enoch, I believe there is some truth in it, but why was it not inspired by God, or should I say why was it not put into the Bible which is the inspired word of God?
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 09:13:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    As a Catholic I wonder if we should put much into the Book of Enoch


    Well,

    1. there's other books in the world besides the Bible.
    2. There's few original sources from antiquity that survived the burning of the Library of Alexandria.  We are fortunate to have recovered this treasure
    3. The Book of Enoch was popular among the early Christians, and many in those early days were well read when it came down to it
    4. Jesus Christ quotes from it in Jude


    Quote
    I believe there is some truth in it, but why was it not inspired by God, or should I say why was it not put into the Bible which is the inspired word of God?


    One argument I hears was that the fathers at the Council of Nicea, when putting the Bible together, decided against putting Enoch in because it was too difficult to understand.  Or some such thing.  

    The Apocalypse of John also almost didn't make it.  

    Plus, there were many little books in the Bible at first that were taken out shortly after.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Lighthouse

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 09:17:59 PM »
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  • Hard to understand why someone would  refer a Catholic forum to a bunch of heretics and their musings.


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 10:00:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lighthouse
    Hard to understand why someone would  refer a Catholic forum to a bunch of heretics and their musings.


    Because

    1. I live in the world, even though I try not to be of it
    2. I'm literate, and I read books
    3. I'm capable of objectively reading profane stuff in a detached fashion, I can differentiate such work from good holy works, and I assume other adults in the group are capable of doing the same.
    4. The book of Enoch is not a work of heretics.  It is apocryphal, and in the post before yours, I even tell you that Jesus Christ quotes the Book of Enoch in Jude.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Lighthouse

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 10:57:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: LaramieHirsch
    Quote from: Lighthouse
    Hard to understand why someone would  refer a Catholic forum to a bunch of heretics and their musings.


    Because

    1. I live in the world, even though I try not to be of it
    2. I'm literate, and I read books
    3. I'm capable of objectively reading profane stuff in a detached fashion, I can differentiate such work from good holy works, and I assume other adults in the group are capable of doing the same.
    4. The book of Enoch is not a work of heretics.  It is apocryphal, and in the post before yours, I even tell you that Jesus Christ quotes the Book of Enoch in Jude.  


    1. Yes, as do we all, but it seems that you are more "of it" than many of the rest of us feel comfortable with.

    2. Yes literate, or so you say. There are a lot of people reading books. Some stick to a more orthodox list.  Are you OK with having forbidden books, or do you have a personal, special exemption?

    3. Then why not spend your valuable time on the Holy works?

    4. "I'm capable of objectively reading profane stuff in a detached fashion, I can differentiate such work from good holy works, and I assume other adults in the group are capable of doing the same."  Woooeee! You are the bee's knees. Pride goeth before the fall. Do you read pornography and claim that you remain detached, and are just making a coolly intellectual assessment?  The best way to start believing lies is start reading lies.

    5. I was referring to the Methodist website you were pointing to for us to go for guidance.  But don't worry, after Martin Luther gets rehabilitated we'll be working on John Wesley next.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #7 on: January 13, 2017, 08:18:34 AM »
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  • You should burn me.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline Lighthouse

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #8 on: January 13, 2017, 02:03:46 PM »
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  •  :heretic:

    Consider yourself burnt.  Now straighten up and fly right.

    Offline Lighthouse

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #9 on: January 13, 2017, 02:07:38 PM »
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  • Wow, two critics. These Methodists are everywhere.    
     :furtive:

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #10 on: January 13, 2017, 03:50:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lighthouse
    :heretic:

    Consider yourself burnt.  Now straighten up and fly right.


    Indeed.  Same goes to our Lord, Jesus Christ, for daring to quote from this same book.

    You tell 'em, Lighthouse.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline Lighthouse

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    History of the World in Book of Enoch
    « Reply #11 on: January 14, 2017, 05:16:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: LaramieHirsch
    Quote from: Lighthouse
    :heretic:

    Consider yourself burnt.  Now straighten up and fly right.


    Indeed.  Same goes to our Lord, Jesus Christ, for daring to quote from this same book.

    You tell 'em, Lighthouse.


    Aahh, Now I see you are out on a ledge, hanging by your fingernails. In my reply above I mistrusted the fact that you are referring us to heretics (Wesleyans and the like).  The epistle of Jude is a different playing field. I'm not sure where you found a quote directly from Jesus Christ unless you are going in very round about way. Your path can only be the recognition that the work of Jude is true, all truth is from God, thus the statements, of Jude are the direct quote of Jesus. If not, please explain.  Jude seems to be a direct inspiration from the Holy Ghost to the author, but I don't see an actual all out quote.