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Author Topic: Hey how should I argue for the Faith?  (Read 2169 times)

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Offline SerpKerp

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Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
« on: August 27, 2014, 09:46:09 PM »
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  • I recently came out to my parents as a Traditionalist, and my parents then threatened me with being kicked out. They decided instead to have a family friend, the local Novus Ordo High School's head of the Theology department discuss Traditional Catholicism with me. What should I use to defend the Faith? I was thinking of writing a paper for myself with Vatican II and Pre Vatican II contradictions. Would that be good? Please share your thoughts.


    Offline Nadir

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 10:06:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: SerpKerp
    I recently came out to my parents as a Traditionalist, and my parents then threatened me with being kicked out. They decided instead to have a family friend, the local Novus Ordo High School's head of the Theology department discuss Traditional Catholicism with me. What should I use to defend the Faith? I was thinking of writing a paper for myself with Vatican II and Pre Vatican II contradictions. Would that be good? Please share your thoughts.


    Start with prayer and go on with common sense. If the guy is head of the Theology department of the local Novus Ordo High School you should be able to enlighten him. He might just be in the dark, poor soul.

    Of course it all depends on his attitude and yours, but I would not take for granted that he understans what the Faith is about.  
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline songbird

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 10:39:48 PM »
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  • You give a picture that your parents do not want to confront you.  Looks like they are dodging the issue.  Your parents can not answer to you, so they have someone else to speak for them?  Hm?  My mother and siblings just refuse to talk about the issues of the changes in the church.  They fight me, refuse to speak with me, no Christmas cards and etc.  Your parents don't know or they would answer you without someone else to do it for them.

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 10:50:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    You give a picture that your parents do not want to confront you.  Looks like they are dodging the issue.  Your parents can not answer to you, so they have someone else to speak for them?  Hm?  My mother and siblings just refuse to talk about the issues of the changes in the church.  They fight me, refuse to speak with me, no Christmas cards and etc.  Your parents don't know or they would answer you without someone else to do it for them.

    Yeah they don't want to talk about and personally avoid it. Also I'm sorry about your strained relationship with your family.

    Offline songbird

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 11:15:05 PM »
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  • My family live primarily in Indiana and we live in the Southwest.  My family have no traditional any where near them, very sad!  I tried so many times but it seems like all we can talk about is the weather or family matters.  I put it to prayer.  Then I met my niece and her family.  They are all ears to the traditional and they are still learning.  They want truth and they want more, so we mail to them(Scotland) many catholic books and they know they have a priest in Glasgow.  If you ever do speak with anyone of the faith, I highly recommend that you speak of the Precious Blood in all the sacraments.  Some will direct their attention to the liturgy and the changes, but there are mysteries that have been overlooked considering the Precious Blood.  I notice once in a conversation with a man, non-catholic, that when I asked where powers are coming from in his denomination, to thwart the devil, he said the Holy Ghost and I said, what about the Precious Blood and he went from nice to full anger!!!  I thought, hm, maybe there is a devil within him for such a reactions as that!  It is true, the devils hate the Precious Blood and the bible says that the sacrifice of the mass will end.  Chapter 12 of Daniel and Matthew mentions it.  The commentaries are to the point, the mass will end.  Now, it does not say how, but it will.  The enemy knows the powers and will have it destroyed and that is where we are.  Very close to this!


    Offline BTNYC

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 12:20:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: SerpKerp
    I recently came out to my parents as a Traditionalist,


    We really needn't and oughtn't to use a phrase like that...

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 12:39:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: BTNYC
    Quote from: SerpKerp
    I recently came out to my parents as a Traditionalist,


    We really needn't and oughtn't to use a phrase like that...


    sorrry lol

    Offline truthchaser

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 12:48:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    They are still learning.  They want truth and they want more, so we mail to them(Scotland) many catholic books and they know they have a priest in Glasgow.  If you ever do speak with anyone of the faith, I highly recommend that you speak of the Precious Blood in all the sacraments.  


    You will find the Editor of the Catholic Truth Scotland blog very sympathetic to the Precious Blood, and for your relatives in Scotland, the Catholic Truth Scotland blog is an excellent educational source through the very sound knowledge of its contributors.

    http://www.catholictruthblog.com/


    Offline songbird

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 02:07:25 PM »
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  • Thank you very much!

    Offline songbird

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #9 on: August 28, 2014, 02:14:59 PM »
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  • Truthchaser:  You are FSSP, that is indult and not valid.

    Offline songbird

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 02:32:12 PM »
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  • Truthchaser: who are you? Of the New Rite?  that is not the Precious Blood.  There was NO mention of Precious Blood on this site.


    Offline Mabel

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 05:40:20 PM »
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  • I came left the NO when I was 19.
    My family tried many silly emotional tricks and ploys to get me back. You would probably laugh if you saw them, one was a binder of newspaper clippings about JP2. "JP2 prayed in front of a statue, he is good."

    I just would advise you not to overly engage them at this point. The reason why is that early on in our zeal, many of us trads have tended to scandalize people and make them further set in their ways.

    I would politely state that such a meeting is not necessary. You have nothing to defend, do not put yourself in a defensive position. Also, I would advise you not to have a verbal meeting. Of they want to present you with "proof" deal with them in writing.

    If you are going to argue anything, do so from a state of grace and make it clear that your beef with the NO is about the NO, not about your parents or other Catholics. Sometimes parents and relatives personalize our opposition to the new rite, making it about them. It needs to be clear that it is not.

    If you are not in possession of older texts, such as a moral theology volume or commentaries, papal encyclicals, and scripture commentaries, make sure you have access to them.

    I really wish I had kept more quiet in the beginning and studied how to present these things better. I also could have done with a few more years of life experience and maturation to help me bring about my points in  a way that they would have been better received. I sincerely hope I am not fully culpable for making others dig in.

    I'm just telling you this to keep you from repeating my mistakes, I probably wouldn't have listened to present self if I were my younger self, either.  :wink:

    Always pray to the Holy Ghost before and during these confrontations! He will help you.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 05:48:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel


    I would politely state that such a meeting is not necessary. You have nothing to defend, do not put yourself in a defensive position. Also, I would advise you not to have a verbal meeting. Of they want to present you with "proof" deal with them in writing.



    I am wondering whether they are requiring this.  The OP stated that they were threatening to kick him out.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Judas Machabeus

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 06:16:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: SerpKerp
    What should I use to defend the Faith?


    Practice the corporal works of mercy.

    Practice all of the spiritual works of mercy, except for admonishing the sinner and instructing the ignorant.  Save those for later.

    Cultivate humility without making a show of it.

    Fulfill your duties of state.  Be a good son.  Help out around the house, as you're asked.  Again, without drama.

    Don't talk very much about the Faith or criticize the Novus Ordo.

    If the occasion presents itself, drop positive comments about how the traditional Mass helps you.  I tell people that it helps me to pray by bringing me to interior silence, and from my spiritual heart, a real communion with others.  You should share your own experience.  

    This is how I think you will most effectively defend the Faith.

    Offline Mabel

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    Hey how should I argue for the Faith?
    « Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 06:36:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Mabel


    I would politely state that such a meeting is not necessary. You have nothing to defend, do not put yourself in a defensive position. Also, I would advise you not to have a verbal meeting. Of they want to present you with "proof" deal with them in writing.



    I am wondering whether they are requiring this.  The OP stated that they were threatening to kick him out.


    I did read that. I just...read it yesterday and didn't get around to responding today.

    I don't think that it will matter whether he defends himself or not at such a meeting, if they are going to kick him out. Sounds like the outcome will be the same, either way. They could just be making emotional threats because they are taking it personally.

    So...I guess we need an update here. Is there going to be a meeting?