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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Clemens68 on October 02, 2017, 02:59:23 PM

Title: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Clemens68 on October 02, 2017, 02:59:23 PM
So, after much reflection and prayer I've left the novus ordo church. Now I'm in the process of finding a place to go. A search has indicated two chapels near me claim to be "traditional Catholic" , I'm hoping some here may be familiar and offer their perspective.

1. St Mary the Virgin Chapel, Paulboro NJ.

2. Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul Hammonton Nj (I have visited this chapel), run by a "Archbishop Sherman Mosley "formerly (?) of the Old Roman Catholic Church.

Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Stubborn on October 02, 2017, 03:42:21 PM
I've never heard of either but I would avoid like the plague anything that ever had or has anything to do with Old Catholics.

I don't know your area but for trads, it's quite common to travel 20+ miles one way to get to Church, which might mean you'll need to expand your search area. 

Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Fanny on October 02, 2017, 04:04:19 PM
I've never heard of either but I would avoid like the plague anything that ever had or has anything to do with Old Catholics.

I don't know your area but for trads, it's quite common to travel 20+ miles one way to get to Church, which might mean you'll need to expand your search area.
Only 20 miles?  Lucky.
We have to go near 200 miles.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: DZ PLEASE on October 02, 2017, 05:27:51 PM
So, after much reflection and prayer I've left the novus ordo church. Now I'm in the process of finding a place to go. A search has indicated two chapels near me claim to be "traditional Catholic" , I'm hoping some here may be familiar and offer their perspective.

1. St Mary the Virgin Chapel, Paulboro NJ.

2. Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul Hammonton Nj (I have visited this chapel), run by a "Archbishop Sherman Mosley "formerly (?) of the Old Roman Catholic Church.

Any help is appreciated.
While you may be looking for more "do" than "don't", you'd better be sure things like that "formerly" are "currently" at the very least.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com , politics and butt-hurt aside, might know of some places and are roughly in that area.

Yeah yeah, blah blah....
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Clemens68 on October 02, 2017, 06:10:15 PM
I appreciate all the replies so far. 

I do try to research as much as possible and do have concerns about anything "Old Catholic". I'm willing to travel. Part of my past apprehension was a fear of what would be required of me, but Im ready, and I'm not looking to be told what I may selfishly want to hear.

I'm not above listening to any well researched ideas, I'm just trying to be as prayerful as possible while I reflect on these choices. I'm going to refrain from posting any personal opinions while asking for others.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: DZ PLEASE on October 02, 2017, 06:23:30 PM
I appreciate all the replies so far.

I do try to research as much as possible and do have concerns about anything "Old Catholic". I'm willing to travel. Part of my past apprehension was a fear of what would be required of me, but Im ready, and I'm not looking to be told what I may selfishly want to hear.

I'm not above listening to any well researched ideas, I'm just trying to be as prayerful as possible while I reflect on these choices. I'm going to refrain from posting any personal opinions while asking for others.
Quote
 "… heretics who call themselves 'Old Catholics'... schismatics and heretics... wicked sect... sons of darkness... wicked faction… deplorable sect…  overthrows the foundations of the Catholic religion, shamelessly rejects the dogmatic definitions of the Ecumenical Vatican Council, and devotes itself to the ruin of souls in so many ways.  We have decreed and declared in Our letter of 21 November 1873 that those unfortunate men who belong to, adhere to, and support that sect should be considered as schismatics and separated from communion with the Church."

23MAR00001875 "Graves ac diuturnae" nn. 1-4 Pope Pius IX

(emph. DZP)
If that doesn't put down your concerns and settle this particular, then "take care".
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Clemens68 on October 02, 2017, 06:33:28 PM
If that doesn't put down your concerns and settle this particular, then "take care".
Its does.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: DZ PLEASE on October 02, 2017, 06:54:09 PM
Its does.
I'm glad, however take a bit of ironic advice via dead enemies; "Trust, but verify."

First off if you haven't, then make it a habit of  going right to the source; don't accept someone else's quote(?) or translation(?) given a choice and really, really really really really digest and ponder every term, word, phrase etc.

We are told that we will answer for every idle word, but I don't see it said that they are necessarily ours.

Rough "transition", huh?
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Tradplorable on October 02, 2017, 08:38:50 PM
Look at the National Registry at this link, New Jersey on pages 53-54. Looks like 14 locations in NJ:

http://traditio.com/tradlib/masslat.pdf
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Fanny on October 02, 2017, 09:04:28 PM
Look at the National Registry at this link, New Jersey on pages 53-54. Looks like 14 locations in NJ:

http://traditio.com/tradlib/masslat.pdf
While traditio is a good place to start, caution.  
One listed with a smiley face near me has a lineage which is not Catholic.  When I asked traditio about it they said, "if it walks like a priest and talks like a priest, be grateful you have mass."
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: DZ PLEASE on October 02, 2017, 09:12:37 PM
While traditio is a good place to start, caution. 
One listed with a smiley face near me has a lineage which is not Catholic.  When I asked traditio about it they said, "if it walks like a priest and talks like a priest, be grateful you have mass."

Traditiono strikes again.

On the upside, some of those high church Anglicans "services" are pretty nice, and the "Orthodox" tend to be even better. Can't beat those "Feelz".

Hey, "if it walks like a priest..."

Some "priests" walk and talk like "Rue Paul", so you have a whole new world of "options" available now. Say "Hey gurrrl" to "Fr" Maybegay for us.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: TKGS on October 02, 2017, 09:29:17 PM
I, too, recommend against attending the chapel of an "archbishop" who was formerly part of the Old Catholics.  Their orders are questionable, and I have grave concerns about any bishop who would give himself the title of "archbishop".  By what right can he possibly adopt that title?

St. Mary the Virgin Chapel in Paulboro appears to be legitimate.  

Another good resource for Mass location is the CMRI website:  http://www.cmri.org/traditional-latin-mass-directory.shtml
(Yes, they are sedevacantist.  So no one needs to post the usual silly "warning".)



  
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Clemens68 on October 03, 2017, 04:42:45 AM
In regards to ArchBishop Sherman Mosley I want to share what I learned with you last night.
Mosley was active in the ORCC until 2009. In 2009 as the result of the death of an Arch Bishop, Mosley was advanced and would be the last allowed married Arch Bishop of the ORCC, upon his advancement he soon left the ORCC and founded the "Traditional Catholics" he swiftly ordained a Bishop, and began consecrating Priest in Africa, and South America. There is no evidence that due process was followed with an one the consecrations. He has also recently opened a seminary in his Church in Hammonton. It is also stated on his website (trcatholics) that his office is where all matters of authority be be brought. The individual I spoke to was adamant this was not a movement built of grace and goodwill, but rather a man who bided his time, collects indulgences, and is building a cult.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: TKGS on October 03, 2017, 06:09:26 AM
Yes.  That is what it sounds like.  The Old Catholics left the Church long ago and it doesn't sound like he's really abrogated the errors.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Clemens68 on October 03, 2017, 06:36:13 AM
Pulled directly from his bio on his website:
"Unlike many Traditionalist groups we do not engaged in debates, or arguments concerning Validity of Orders. Such arguments cause further wounds to the body of Christ and are not conducive to the practice of the true religion"
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: DZ PLEASE on October 03, 2017, 06:50:15 AM
Pulled directly from his bio on his website:
"Unlike many Traditionalist groups we do not engaged in debates, or arguments concerning Validity of Orders. Such arguments cause further wounds to the body of Christ and are not conducive to the practice of the true religion"

What I'm hearing: "I don't want anyone asking too many questions."

Alright, perhaps that's not the most "charitable" take, but it certainly seems a prudent possibility.

"Valid, schmalid! C'mon in and play, 'Is He here?'"

I'm sorry, but in this day and age and esp. in "trad" circles, if someone doesn't make with their lineage, then walk away.
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Stubborn on October 03, 2017, 08:19:41 AM
Pulled directly from his bio on his website:
"Unlike many Traditionalist groups we do not engaged in debates, or arguments concerning Validity of Orders. Such arguments cause further wounds to the body of Christ and are not conducive to the practice of the true religion"
Definitely just move along - there's nothing to see there!
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: Stubborn on October 03, 2017, 08:40:50 AM
Definitely just move along - there's nothing to see there!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdFl__NlOpA
Title: Re: Help chosing a chapel
Post by: TKGS on October 03, 2017, 09:30:32 AM
Pulled directly from his bio on his website:
"Unlike many Traditionalist groups we do not engaged in debates, or arguments concerning Validity of Orders. Such arguments cause further wounds to the body of Christ and are not conducive to the practice of the true religion"
Wow!  :o