I went to mass today (keep in mind I am at a Novus Ordo Church), and the priest gave a sermon about focusing on Jesus Christ instead of other things. I like most of what he had to say except one thing. He mentioned how times really have not changed since even 200 years ago, and that things have not gotten worse morally. I know some of you are going to immediately disagree with that based on your views of the post-Vatican II Church. Setting that aside, do you think things have gotten worse, stayed the same, or maybe even better in society as far as morality goes? I am going to argue that things have gotten worse, and that it is more difficult in this day and age to be a solid practicing Catholic. My presumption is based off of the prophecies of the Saints and Divine Revelation regarding the end times, and my own observation. Everything is pointing to us going into the End Times as we speak. The following prophecy predicted the sɛҳuąƖ revolution of the 1960's and how it has lead us into moral decline...

After the year 1900, toward the middle of the 20th century, the people of that time will become unrecognisable. When the time for the Advent of the Antichrist approaches, peoples minds will grow cloudy from carnal passions, and dishonour and lawlessness will grow stronger. Then the world will become unrecognisable. Peoples appearances will change, and it will be impossible to distinguish men from women due to there shamelessness in dress and style of hair. These people will be cruel and will be like wild animals because of the temptations of the Antichrist. There will be no respect for parents or elders, love will disappear, and Christian pastors, bishops, and priests will become vain men, completely failing to distinguish the right hand way from the left. At that time the morals and traditions of Christians and the Church will change. People will abandon modesty, and dissipation will reign. Falsehood and greed will attain great proportions, and woe to those who pile up treasures. Lust, adultery, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, secret deeds and murder will rule in society.
-- St. Nilus, 430 AD

I see these things that St. Nilus predicted in our society today. Even 200 years ago, I think there were more faithful, and not as many distractions that lead people astray. I also think that people did not commit adultery as often, nor did they fornicate as much, and communication's were more limited than today thus making things much more difficult for the wicked to conduct their dirty deeds. Granted, these things mentioned in St. Nilus's prophecy still existed in those days, but I think many more people refrained from doing them as much as possible. Nowadays, we have widespread liberalism that leads people to think that its ok or they are much more nonchalant about these things, and they end up doing them much more.

I think our media paints things to be much more chaotic and unorganized 200 years ago then what they really were. We see western movies where cowboys would have duels and firefights in the taverns and such. We see mobster movies where the Italians would be spraying down people, cars, etc. with their tommy guns. We also see women getting smacked around by their husbands. The list goes on. The media pumps out movies like this because these kinds of issues grab peoples attention. Plus they are trying to stir people up against each other. Anyways, people's views of the past have been warped to think that back in those days things were much more chaotic and negative than they are today. Yes those issues existed, but not on the level that people seem to think. In fact, morally, we have declined compared to those days. Thats what I think, what do you think?

Do you think anybody could have even imagined a world of 50 million abortions per year, "gαy marriage", "gαy" pride parades, nuclear/chemical/biological weapons etc 200 years ago?

I also go to a novus ordo church ( I have experience of the TLM and prefer TLM but that is not relevant) - and since I go to your kind of church I know you understand me when I say that the priests dodge the issue.
We have all heard them talk about the gospels, but they do so only up to a point. If they talk about the 10 commandments, why not go one step further and talk about people cheating on their spouses, or these interfaith conferences, "I am the Lord thy God" am I not? Saith He (through trads).

Things have morally gotten worse. I know lots of people older than me and they complain over what they see the young people doing. It did not happen in their day. They lived in more genuine and honest and innocent times, but we live in an age of extreme dominance of sin. There is no more shock to sinful events, it is considered normal, and only minor things are still a little shocking but there is a tolerance for them that was not there before.

Essentially the people are kept in fear by this society and so they act like animals and are afraid to practice virtue because those who want to socially engineer the state (to Marxism) will crack down on them. This is why there are scapegoat racists homophobes αnтι-ѕємιтєs every now and again. Its like we need to keep being reminded what the consequences are for holding any traditional kind of view, because the reds seek to annihilate tradition and reprogram all our brains.
(btw do not watch tv.)

Quote from: TCat

I also go to a novus ordo church ( I have experience of the TLM and prefer TLM but that is not relevant) -

Stop.
Experience of the TLM?
What is this, a spiritual retreat? A theme park? You watched the movie too?
A preference? The TLM is not an OPTION. Get that in your skull.
It is the Real Mass. It is not "Second best, optional, another venue, an experience.".
We offer to God the best. Not second best, not an option.  There is no option when it comes to the most Holy Sacrifice.

People say "Well, theologically the TLM is better, but I opt for the NO mass because blah blah blah".
That puerile, asinine thinking makes my blood boil.
Hypocritical people.

I agree with you Godwithus alex, BUT it is this simple: I don't live even remotely near a TLM, and besides there are only 4 TLMs in the whole country, so what am I supposed to do? Stay at home??

I don't like the novus ordo at all. But at the moment I believe that the priests are valid and that the novus ordo, undesireable as it is, is valid. It does the absolute minimum needed to be valid, but it is. I often think that in the early church the eucharist was not consecrated as elaborately as it is even in a novus ordo mass. Sometimes I hate the novus ordo mass, and if there was a TLM in this town I would not touch the novus ordo, but this is how it is. The new mass is almost universally everywhere. Only a select few places have the TLM, and even less have tridentine ordained priests.

I am still making up my mind on what position to take on the new church, whether it is just barely valid or not. But in my heart I am a trad. And I am always defending trad beliefs to the rest of the people who go to the novus ordo.

Point is, I believe in trying to change the new church from the inside, just like the freemasons have done. I think it can be salvaged. If you want to cut yourself off from it I understand why, but you are letting those who only have the novus ordo continue in their ignorance and perhaps even go to hell.

Quote from: GottmitunsAlex

Quote from: TCat

I also go to a novus ordo church ( I have experience of the TLM and prefer TLM but that is not relevant) -

Stop.
Experience of the TLM?
What is this, a spiritual retreat? A theme park? You watched the movie too?
A preference? The TLM is not an OPTION. Get that in your skull.
It is the Real Mass. It is not "Second best, optional, another venue, an experience.".
We offer to God the best. Not second best, not an option.  There is no option when it comes to the most Holy Sacrifice.

People say "Well, theologically the TLM is better, but I opt for the NO mass because blah blah blah".
That puerile, asinine thinking makes my blood boil.
Hypocritical people.

I agree with you Godwithus alex, BUT it is this simple: I don't live even remotely near a TLM, and besides there are only 4 TLMs in the whole country, so what am I supposed to do? Stay at home??

.... If you want to cut yourself off from it I understand why, but you are letting those who only have the novus ordo continue in their ignorance and perhaps even go to hell.

It seems you have acquired a tolerance (I hope it's immunity) for the NO mass.
I tell you this: If there is any ignorance that MAY lead souls to hell, it is coming from the pulpit @ the NO masses.  To knowingly subject a family member to this is..well, unmentionable.

To confect the Sacred Sacrament the priest needs: form, matter and intention. Some black masses have this. But it does not make it right.
I am not comparing the NO to a Black mass.
I am saying that not only the formula needs to be technically correct, but also the liturgy has to be correct. It has to be Christocentric and not homocentric.
 
2000 years of Catholic tradition has naturally given us the TLM.
3 years of ʝʊdɛօ-masonic laced with protestant ritual wanna-be's has given us  the NO Mass.

Please reconsider.
God bless.

I don't like the novus ordo at all. But at the moment I believe that the priests are valid and that the novus ordo, undesireable as it is, is valid. It does the absolute minimum needed to be valid, but it is. . .

Given your current beliefs, I understand what you do.  I believed that too up until relatively recently.  I felt like I had no excuse for missing Mass when NO was the only thing available.  But now my doubts about the validity of NO priests have become much stronger--I'm to the point now that I have virtually no doubt that they are NOT valid.

As for the NO "Mass," if the priests aren't valid, then there's not a valid Mass.  For NO priests old enough that they are valid (and IF the younger ones are valid), I have not studied enough to decide about the validity of NO Eucahrist.  But I am now fully convinced that IF it is valid, then participation in it is sacrilege.

Reading posts (and confirming info) here, as well as some other sources, as well has having the good fortune of finding a very good traditional priest who explained some things, helped me come to my conclusions.  BTW--Myrna is a very good and sincere person.  Reading her posts and some interaction with her was significant in prompting me to look deeper.  Myrna and I have not always agreed.  But any disrespect, if any, that I have ever tossed her way, I assure you was unintentional.  I saw you pounce on her quite abrasively personally (I don't think it was this thread) and I didn't like it.  Regardless of whether you agree with her or not, for countless reasons she is to be respected.

I am still making up my mind on what position to take on the new church, whether it is just barely valid or not. But in my heart I am a trad. And I am always defending trad beliefs to the rest of the people who go to the novus ordo.

I hope you're having more success than I had.  Most NOers are opposed to tradition, and the others don't care.  My experience it would seem that 0.5% - 2% would welcome a return to full tradition.

Point is, I believe in trying to change the new church from the inside, just like the freemasons have done. I think it can be salvaged. If you want to cut yourself off from it I understand why, but you are letting those who only have the novus ordo continue in their ignorance and perhaps even go to hell.

Changing it from the inside is naive.  Also, that would require covert un-Catholic infiltration actions as you've previously been advised elsewhere.  You're not going to beat the prots, Jєωs, masons, and devil at their own game.  As far as trying to keep those in the NO out of hell, I am very sympathetic to that.  But getting info to them (which I wish trads were better at doing) is one of he best things we can do.  I previously felt some bitterness about being stranded in the NO so long, yearning for tradition, and not finding it until I was in my late 30s.

I am sympathetic to your post here--sounds a lot like where I've passed through on my journey to true full tradition.  What about your statement in another tread about deacons hearing confession?  Where did that come from?

When the NO minister walks up the aisle, there is no sacrifice.  There might be a lady holding up the book, in the procession, but where is the sacrifice?

In the Mass that we know, the priest walks from the side altar with the sacrifice in his hands.

Which has the sacrifice?  Which has NO sacrifice?  Be it a valid or invalid ordination, it is still what it is- sacrifice or NO sacrifice.

If there is NO sacrifice, does this mean in the NO minds, that Christ came in vain?  Is His Sacrifice of purpose or not?  The Precious Blood of Christ has the power!  It is  the Power that the enemy wishes to do away with.  It is the Precious Blood that is in ALL the sacraments.  Without the Precious Blood in our veins, how are we to be of the Mystical Body of Christ.  We have no Life within us without the Precious Blood.  Matthew 24 and Chapter 12 of Daniel the prophet spells it out, that one there will be no sacrifice on the earth.  NO has no sacrifice.

Do you think anybody could have even imagined a world of 50 million abortions per year, "gαy marriage", "gαy" pride parades, nuclear/chemical/biological weapons etc 200 years ago?

200 years ago you could literally buy people at the slave market. Bishop Penlaver rebuked one of his priests in the 1790s because only 8 out of over 2000 parishoners made their Easter duty (that is they went to confession and holy communion once during the Easter season) I am not saying that things are better today but rather some of the issues have changed over the years.