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Author Topic: Hate the sin but love the sinner.  (Read 1491 times)

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Offline AJNC

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Hate the sin but love the sinner.
« on: July 18, 2017, 12:50:49 AM »
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    • The saying came from an Hindu, Mahatma Gandhi, in his 1929 autobiography.  I have heard priests make use of this quote .....


    Quotation #36366 from Classic Quotes:
    Hate the sin, love the sinner.Mahatma Gandhi
    Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)

    The Quotations Page: Quote from Mahatma Gandhi

    The Quotations Page: Quote from Mahatma Gandhi
    "Hate the sin, love the sinner."
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    [/font]


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    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 01:40:29 PM »
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    • Just because it is quoted in his biography does not mean he was the one to "coin the phrase".  I sincerely doubt he was the first to use it because the concept has been with us since Christ walked the earth.

    Hindus do not have the same concept of sin that Christians do, although they may use the word, they mean something different by it.
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    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 03:38:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Marlelar on July 18, 2017, 01:40:29 PM
    Just because it is quoted in his biography does not mean he was the one to "coin the phrase".  I sincerely doubt he was the first to use it because the concept has been with us since Christ walked the earth.

    Hindus do not have the same concept of sin that Christians do, although they may use the word, they mean something different by it.
    love others as you love yourself is essentially saying the same thing.
    after all, you are a sinner. If you love yourself, you are loving a sinner. then again, some people cannot get un-stuck from loving self. They love self and pretty much self only.. [sigh]
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    Offline AJNC

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 07:02:29 PM »
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    • I posted this item on the three forums that I belong simply because I had heard this saying before in church and I thought it came only from a Catholic source, and I felt that there be others like myself who were also under the same impression, as was a Traditional priest friend of mine.

    Some who replied have said that St Augustine said more or less the same thing in his time. Others have wondered what the fuss is all about as, even if were only Gandhi who came out with this, there is a Christian feel to it.

    I picked this information up from a Protestant website. The scholar who runs that has also commented on the St Augustine's saying, but I did not link to the site because it's owner is anti-Catholic.

    As an aside, I wonder how some Traditional Catholics would take to quotes from Escriva of Opus Dei and Mother Teresa?
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 10:43:08 PM »
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    • Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
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    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 01:23:29 PM »
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    • we are told to love others as we love ourselves. On the other hand we are told to stay away from those in serious (mortal) sin. 

    it is interesting that in one part of the Bible it says to remove the sinner from your midst or something like that, but then Jesus says let the weeds grow together w/ the wheat until Harvest Time. 

    I guess we can let the weeds be there, in the Church, but we do not have to be buddies w/ them 
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    Offline alaric

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #6 on: July 28, 2017, 04:05:57 PM »
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    • I think this is a bs phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner".

    Sin, is the actions of a man. A man is a compiliations of what he does.

    You, or you're character, or what you are, is a result of a compiliation of your actions. Your actions or "sins" is what or "who" you really are.

    How in the world can I "love" someone who conitinues, knowingly, of committing actions that are in direct oppostion of everything I believe in? I don't really know if this is Christian theology or ethic.

    The God in the OT said he "hated" certain actions or "sins". Hated them so much. he destroyed entire cities even the whole world because of these "sins". Nowhere, from what i've ever read, said he still "loved" these "sinners" in the towns or the world he destroyed.

    Jesus, is part of the Holy Trinity. How can he go against the commands of the Father?


    God hates sin. I just don't get where we have to " love" someone or something that commits it.

     Or something God "hates".

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    Offline jjr9

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #7 on: July 29, 2017, 08:08:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: AJNC on July 18, 2017, 12:50:49 AM
    The saying came from an Hindu, Mahatma Gandhi, in his 1929 autobiography.  I have heard priests make use of this quote .....


    Quotation #36366 from Classic Quotes:
    Hate the sin, love the sinner.Mahatma Gandhi
    Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)

    The Quotations Page: Quote from Mahatma Gandhi


    The Quotations Page: Quote from Mahatma Gandhi
    "Hate the sin, love the sinner."
    [font={defaultattr}]
    [/font]

    I believe this statement too vague to be useful and for the most part used by
    some to excuse behavior offensive to the Lord. I believe to "Hate the sin" to
    be an absolute Truth. I believe "Love the sinner" is not well defined. I believe
    Bishop Fulton Sheen enplanes how this can lead to a false compassion here:

    False Compassion(Part I):



    False Compassion(Part II):



    God bless
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    Offline Degrelle

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 11:06:57 AM »
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    • All truth belongs to the Catholic faith, regardless of who said it. If Ghandi said that the sky is blue, that would still be true. Likewise, if he said that we should hate the sin but love the sinner, this doesn't necessarily make it wrong. That said, it is true that many people (purposely or not) misconstrue or oversimplify this phrase. I did some searching and apparently the phrase was originally coined by St. Augustine in the context of a letter to some nuns concerning the merciful attitude that believers should have when the Church rebukes and corrects another believer’s sinful behavior:

    When convicted of the fault, it is her duty to submit to the corrective discipline which may be appointed by the prioress or the prior. If she refuse to submit to this, and does not go away from you of her own accord, let her be expelled from your society. For this is not done cruelly but mercifully, to protect very many from perishing through infection of the plague with which one has been stricken. Moreover, what I have now said in regard to abstaining from wanton looks should be carefully observed, with due love for the persons and hatred of the sin, in observing, forbidding, reporting, proving, and punishing of all other faults (St. Augustine’s Letter 211 written in a.D. 434).

    I think that the problem is that people today do not under stand love or judging.

    Keep in mind that when it comes to statements that are  "too vague to be useful and for the most part used by
    some to excuse behavior offensive to the Lord", this could equally be applied to words of Scripture, given how people apply "judge not lest ye be judged". Now is that the fault of Scripture or of people? I'd say of people. It's still a valid verse/quote, as is the "love the sinner, hate the sin", in my view.
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    Offline jjr9

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #9 on: July 29, 2017, 02:23:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Degrelle on July 29, 2017, 11:06:57 AM
    All truth belongs to the Catholic faith, regardless of who said it. If Ghandi said that the sky is blue, that would still be true. Likewise, if he said that we should hate the sin but love the sinner, this doesn't necessarily make it wrong. That said, it is true that many people (purposely or not) misconstrue or oversimplify this phrase. I did some searching and apparently the phrase was originally coined by St. Augustine in the context of a letter to some nuns concerning the merciful attitude that believers should have when the Church rebukes and corrects another believer’s sinful behavior:

    When convicted of the fault, it is her duty to submit to the corrective discipline which may be appointed by the prioress or the prior. If she refuse to submit to this, and does not go away from you of her own accord, let her be expelled from your society. For this is not done cruelly but mercifully, to protect very many from perishing through infection of the plague with which one has been stricken. Moreover, what I have now said in regard to abstaining from wanton looks should be carefully observed, with due love for the persons and hatred of the sin, in observing, forbidding, reporting, proving, and punishing of all other faults (St. Augustine’s Letter 211 written in a.D. 434).

    I think that the problem is that people today do not under stand love or judging.

    Keep in mind that when it comes to statements that are  "too vague to be useful and for the most part used by
    some to excuse behavior offensive to the Lord", this could equally be applied to words of Scripture, given how people apply "judge not lest ye be judged". Now is that the fault of Scripture or of people? I'd say of people. It's still a valid verse/quote, as is the "love the sinner, hate the sin", in my view.
    Please note St Augustine is not vague in his statement "with due love for the persons and hatred of the sin".
    Some might quibble that due is a small word but it does make a big difference here.

    What causes you to believe "judge not lest ye be judged" vague or unclear.
    I believe this is very clear.

    God bless

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    Offline Cato

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    Re: Hate the sin but love the sinner.
    « Reply #10 on: July 30, 2017, 08:22:36 PM »
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    • You think we'd take advice from a bald headed pagan?

    Enough tolerance already.  The world would benefit from burning sinners at the stake again.  That would motivate them to repent and be saved when they see the burning fires around them.

    Or, we can coddle them and allow our neighbors to end up in Hell.
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