Author Topic: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?  (Read 1374 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2019, 02:09:53 PM »
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  • I once wrote a very strong yet very well balanced email of protest to Bp. Fellay as well as to many other SSPX priests including as many SSPX superiors around the world as I could scour up email addresses for concerning the general abandonment by the SSPX of Bp. Williamson after his "Holocaust" interview.  I invited their response.  Not a single one of them ever responded.  I believe I blind copied the email to some members on this forum.

    That is a reflection of the SSPX's infallibility, impeccability, and universal jurisdiction.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #16 on: October 10, 2019, 04:04:19 PM »
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  • …but, but, but… isn't the SSPX infallible? all knowing? all just?
    HAHA!  New dogma:  SSPX infalliblity :P 


    Offline claudel

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #17 on: October 10, 2019, 04:10:59 PM »
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  • That person can no longer attend any SSPX mass anywhere … . [emphasis added]

    From the standpoint of practical enforcement alone, this claim beggars belief. To take just one example, consider the three SSPX sites in the New York City metro area with which I am familiar: none of them has a trace of video surveillance or even a guard posted at the entrance with a photo array or a list of Banned Baddies to be on the alert for. What is more, absent such close scrutiny or something similar, the masses at all of these sites (and a great many others) are simply too well attended to allow the person in question or indeed anyone else whose face isn't as recognizable as that of Tom Cruise or Hillary Clinton to be spotted and ejected. I'm assuming, of course, that we're talking about someone who has enough wits and discretion to wear something other than his Down with Fellay polo shirt to Mass.

    In short, the disgruntled claimant sounds like someone who sought for and found an excuse to become a home-aloner.

    As for the related matter of the unedifying rush to embrace this patent fiction, many commenters hereabouts seem to think that even the most rudimentary Catholic precepts of integrity and rationality are dispensable when they are invited to join a Two-Minute Hate aimed at the present-day SSPX. Denial of the sacraments for improper or insufficient cause is a very grave matter, and an accusation that such a thing has occurred should not be afforded virtually reflexive credence solely on the basis of an unsupported secondhand claim coming from a single member of this forum.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #18 on: October 10, 2019, 05:46:50 PM »
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  • From the standpoint of practical enforcement alone, this claim beggars belief. To take just one example, consider the three SSPX sites in the New York City metro area with which I am familiar: none of them has a trace of video surveillance or even a guard posted at the entrance with a photo array or a list of Banned Baddies to be on the alert for. What is more, absent such close scrutiny or something similar, the masses at all of these sites (and a great many others) are simply too well attended to allow the person in question or indeed anyone else whose face isn't as recognizable as that of Tom Cruise or Hillary Clinton to be spotted and ejected. I'm assuming, of course, that we're talking about someone who has enough wits and discretion to wear something other than his Down with Fellay polo shirt to Mass.

    In short, the disgruntled claimant sounds like someone who sought for and found an excuse to become a home-aloner.

    As for the related matter of the unedifying rush to embrace this patent fiction, many commenters hereabouts seem to think that even the most rudimentary Catholic precepts of integrity and rationality are dispensable when they are invited to join a Two-Minute Hate aimed at the present-day SSPX. Denial of the sacraments for improper or insufficient cause is a very grave matter, and an accusation that such a thing has occurred should not be afforded virtually reflexive credence solely on the basis of an unsupported secondhand claim coming from a single member of this forum.
    If he's going to Sedevacantist Latin Masses, he's not a Home Aloner.  Which at least was the original claim.

    Its possible that he was simply informed that he wasn't welcome, and that it isn't actually enforced. 

    I'm not commenting on whether the accusation *is* true, to be clear.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #19 on: October 10, 2019, 06:56:44 PM »
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  • To take just one example, consider the three SSPX sites in the New York City metro area with which I am familiar: none of them has a trace of video surveillance or even a guard posted at the entrance with a photo array or a list of Banned Baddies to be on the alert for. 
    On the other hand, New York, I think, would be the exception rather than the rule. Am I right in thinking that faithful Catholics have, overall, no other choice than SSPX, if they live outside large cities. For instance, if you attend an SSPX chapel in any rural area in almost any part of the world, you have a small (cliquey?) group where a newcomer, or any particular dissenter, stands out like a sore thumb.


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #20 on: October 10, 2019, 07:14:59 PM »
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  • If he's going to Sedevacantist Latin Masses, he's not a Home Aloner. ...

    A regular parishioner at a Sedevacantist chapel is definitely not a Home Aloner.


    Its possible that he was simply informed that he wasn't welcome, and that it isn't actually enforced. ..

    "Not welcome here" applies to those who are of the opinion that Francis is a heretic, and hence, not a valid pope.


    Priests do "gossip" or "contact other clergy" about such matters, especially regarding the upcoming union with the Vatican, so the "not welcome here" spread far and wide among the clergy. I'm not saying that any "seal of confession" was broken.
    See my comments above in blue font.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline claudel

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #21 on: October 10, 2019, 08:10:50 PM »
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  • On the other hand, New York, I think, would be the exception rather than the rule. Am I right in thinking that faithful Catholics have, overall, no other choice than SSPX, if they live outside large cities. For instance, if you attend an SSPX chapel in any rural area in almost any part of the world, you have a small (cliquey?) group where a newcomer, or any particular dissenter, stands out like a sore thumb.

    I think that the choices of faithful Catholics are to some extent dependent upon their circumstances, especially but not exclusively circumstances of age, health, geography, and domestic arrangements. But everything else being equal, Nadir, I would say that your suspicion is probably correct in the main. Nor would I be at all surprised at the presence of a cliquey spirit in certain places. Fortunate is the person who has never bitten his tongue to avoid saying, "Lord, I thank Thee that I am not like other men"!

    The primary point of my comment, however, was to induce others to join me in raising an eyebrow at the claim that the person Maria Regina cited could "no longer attend any SSPX mass anywhere." That last word, which I reset in boldface to draw readers' attention to it, covers a lot of ground, after all.

    Finally, at the risk of generating a good deal of ire, I shall say that I consider a decline into sedevacantism, whatever the circumstances, to be a catastrophe. Inasmuch as the sedevacantist outlook incorporates a claim to a virtually godlike degree of authoritative judgment about matters that no properly catechized layperson would ever publicly voice an opinion on, it may be said to be an almost exact equivalent on the theological plane of a gateway drug that, as like as not, will lead ere long to the heroin of home-aloneism.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #22 on: October 10, 2019, 11:23:09 PM »
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  • https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum20.htm

    Read Chapter 3.

    Does anyone here reject the Vatican Council ("Vatican 1")?

    How then can you "recognize and resist" the guy you claim is a true Pope?


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #23 on: October 11, 2019, 03:10:45 AM »
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  • Ha, ha!  All the above discussion of banning reminds me of that absolutely insanely ridiculous banning imposed by the infamous Cardinal Mahoney.  If you've never seen this here is a "blast" from the past.  The article quotes the Cardinal's bann verbatim including these statements: "In the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Williamson is hereby banned from entering any Catholic church, school or other facility, until he and his group comply fully and unequivocally with the Vatican's directives regarding the Holocaust.......Holocaust deniers like Williamson will find no sympathetic ear or place of refuge in the Catholic Church, of which he is not --- and may never become --- a member."  See: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal_mahony_bans_bishop_williamson_from_l.a._archdiocese

    P.S. Sounds like the bann would even prevent an "unrepentant" Bp. Williamson from being buried in any of the L.A. Archdiocese's cemeteries!

    P.P.S. What comes around goes around.  Cardinal Mahoney's successor banned Mahoney from any public ministry in the archdiocese!  See: https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/cardinal-mahony-barred-public-ministry-los-angeles

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #24 on: October 11, 2019, 09:40:08 AM »
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  • Wherever you stand on the Holocaust, it is an issue of history, not theology. To oust someone from the Church on the sole basis of any opinion about it is ludicrous

    Offline CatholicInAmerica

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #25 on: October 11, 2019, 09:42:46 AM »
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  • Wherever you stand on the Holocaust, it is an issue of history, not theology. To oust someone from the Church on the sole basis of any opinion about it is ludicrous
    You have to remember, these bishops won’t even say that Jews can’t go to heaven. They are cowards who fall to their knees at the Jew command.
    Jorge Bergoglio isn’t even a real priest.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #26 on: October 11, 2019, 10:31:08 AM »
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  • You have to remember, these bishops won’t even say that Jews can’t go to heaven. They are cowards who fall to their knees at the Jew command.
    Most trads, lefebvre included, believed that some individual Jews might go to heaven despite their false religion.  I realize that’s an unpopular opinion on this forum.
    But most bishops won’t even say it’s dangerous 

    Offline claudel

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #27 on: October 11, 2019, 04:24:20 PM »
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  • Wherever you stand on the Holocaust, it is an issue of history, not theology. To oust someone from the Church on the sole basis of any opinion about it is ludicrous.

    True enough, as far as it goes. Unfortunately, however, an appeal to factuality carries little weight for those that espouse the conciliar mind-set. Put otherwise, it is not merely the Jews who have theologized their Holohoax; the conciliar church has done likewise. In this regard, Judaism and the Vatican by Léon de Poncins is the primary text. For those who find reading books an unbearable chore, there is ample valuable material on Mark 79's website.

    Offline richard

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #28 on: October 11, 2019, 04:33:39 PM »
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  • True enough, as far as it goes. Unfortunately, however, an appeal to factuality carries little weight for those that espouse the conciliar mind-set. Put otherwise, it is not merely the Jews who have theologized their Holohoax; the conciliar church has done likewise. In this regard, Judaism and the Vatican by Léon de Poncins is the primary text. For those who find reading books an unbearable chore, there is ample valuable material on Mark 79's website.
    What website is that, where can I find it?

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Has anyone ever confronted +Fellay?
    « Reply #29 on: October 12, 2019, 09:54:37 PM »
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