Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: graceseeker on March 17, 2018, 01:25:34 PM
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hardly anyone should get married
We can see by the divorce rate how true that is
But then there are my experiences in life
I have not met anyone who was worthy.. plenty I THOUGHT were worthy... until I found out who the person really is (is not)...
so why all these marriages going on? I think people see unkosher things in the other just as I do.. but they marry anyway... NOT good.. (depending on how unkosher..)
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With the paltry education and brainwashing given in public schools, community colleges, and universities, is it surprising that both men and women are ill-prepared for marriage?
With sɛҳuąƖ immorality being taught in English classes and in sex education, is it surprising that most youth by the time they reach the tender age of 18 are no longer virgins and are incapable of being faithful? Is it surprising that many English teachers, especially those from California and Florida, are using risqué romance or coming to age novels as texts, and by doing so are tempting and even seducing the young men and women in their classrooms? Yes, it is best that our ill-prepared narcissistic youth not marry and destroy more lives through abortion and unfaithfulness.
We need to pray for our youth, and if we are parents, we need to watch our children carefully and home school them so that they may be pure and chaste.
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Brother Bernard of the silver city, NM, monastery: "wouldn't it be great if every one went into religious vocations?"
Me: "but then there would be no more people."
Brother: "what a way to go!!"
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I don't know where you were looking, but you were obviously looking in the wrong places. You need to look for your spouse at church, not at the bar.
I know, you probably don't go to bars. But still, looking at Barnes-and-Noble, the cafe, the park, or anywhere else "in the world" where the mix is 99.99% not Traditional Catholic is about the same as looking for a good Catholic spouse at a bar.
Worldly people find improvement in their selection by going to a bookstore or concert instead of a bar. Traditional Catholics do not. The woman will still be wearing pants, feminist to some degree, not raised Catholic (huge obstacle to overcome, even if she's of good will and wants to convert).
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In the US its common for people (non-Catholics) to raise other people's kids (not condemning that per se). But the reasons for this is that people lay down with each other and start a family out of wedlock and then later don't like that person and trade them in for someone else and the cycle continues. Seems to be a trend among my generation here.
I never saw that once living abroad. Never knew someone raising someone else's kids (step-dads etc).
So maybe it's not that people shouldn't marry. It's definitely a cultural thing. My wife was a 35 y/o virgin living with her parents her whole life when we got married (that's how they do it in other countries). You'd be lucky (blessed) to find one (a non-Catholic again) at 18 of such disposition here in the U.S., from what I understand.
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In the US its common for people (non-Catholics) to raise other people's kids (not condemning that per se). But the reasons for this is that people lay down with each other and start a family out of wedlock and then later don't like that person and trade them in for someone else and the cycle continues. Seems to be a trend among my generation here.
I never saw that once living abroad. Never knew someone raising someone else's kids (step-dads etc).
So maybe it's not that people shouldn't marry. It's definitely a cultural thing. My wife was a 35 y/o virgin living with her parents her whole life when we got married (that's how they do it in other countries). You'd be lucky (blessed) to find one (a non-Catholic again) at 18 of such disposition here in the U.S., from what I understand.
You'll find a few in the US, but they won't be American and probably not Catholic, either. They will be the adult daughters of Asians, Arabs, Indians, Africans for whom culture dictates an unmarried daughter lives with her parents.
Personally, I'm glad I never married or had children. I see what has happened to those of my age group, 55-65, all divorced, raising their grandkids of assorted unmarried children with multiple partners, all have lost the Faith, most follow no religion whatsoever, a chaotic, charityless mess. I moved out at 18, female or not, it was expected. Wanted when young to be a teaching or medical sister, but by then, the convents were empty, just nuns in pantsuits with bad hair, into occultish trash or silly political causes. I'm nearly 60, too late for sisterhood, fair health, working long hours to survive. I'll be satisfied to die at any time, so long as I'm in a state of grace.
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I see what has happened to those of my age group, 55-65, all divorced, raising their grandkids of assorted unmarried children with multiple partners, all have lost the Faith, most follow no religion whatsoever, a chaotic, charityless mess.
I see this going on too among the same age group. American society is a true mess. I'd hate to see what the next generations will bring.
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hardly anyone should get married
That was what Jesus' disciples said when he explained to them about the disolubility of marriage.
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I see this going on too among the same age group. American society is a true mess. I'd hate to see what the next generations will bring.
What country are you in? If you are in Central America, all the poor, 80% of the population, the women are living with a different man every 5 years, and the daughters have to leave the house at like 13 just to get away from the new step-father who is there for her more than for her worn out by all the men and child births mother. Then the daughter starts the same pattern.
Among the poor, the results of immorality are in the raw for everyone to see, because they do not have the money to cover it up with fancy houses, yachts, Mercedes Benz, plastic surgery, make-up, hairstyles, contraceptives, abortions........
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I moved out at 18, female or not, it was expected.
That's an American thing, it was not like that for the Southern Europeans who came to America, like the Italians. Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away, and let the children fend for themselves basically. In my culture, the daughters would remain in the home till they were married to a man that was appropriate in the eyes of the parents, specially the father. The sons were taught a business, how to make a living by the father.
In America they are both sent away from daycare to K-12, to College/work. They must fend for themselves.
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I'm nearly 60, too late for sisterhood, ...
Why? It shouldn't be.
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With the paltry education and brainwashing given in public schools, community colleges, and universities, is it surprising that both men and women are ill-prepared for marriage?
With sɛҳuąƖ immorality being taught in English classes and in sex education, is it surprising that most youth by the time they reach the tender age of 18 are no longer virgins and are incapable of being faithful? Is it surprising that many English teachers, especially those from California and Florida, are using risqué romance or coming to age novels as texts, and by doing so are tempting and even seducing the young men and women in their classrooms? Yes, it is best that our ill-prepared narcissistic youth not marry and destroy more lives through abortion and unfaithfulness.
We need to pray for our youth, and if we are parents, we need to watch our children carefully and home school them so that they may be pure and chaste.
so true.
no Christian should send kids to public schools... For that matter, neither should nonChristians
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I don't know where you were looking, but you were obviously looking in the wrong places. You need to look for your spouse at church, not at the bar.
ha ha... shows what u know
I was attracted to this one person years ago who was very involved with the Church, had been for YEARS. That person was a psychopath, literally
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hardly anyone should get married
That was what Jesus' disciples said when he explained to them about the disolubility of marriage.
The Word says it is better to stay single bc married people are concerned w/ pleasing spouse and not so focused on pleasing God
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If I do recall lucifer thought he was all that compared to his fellow angels. Anyone without patience and humility should not marry. Blessed be God for he is good.
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If I do recall lucifer thought he was all that compared to his fellow angels. Anyone without patience and humility should not marry. Blessed be God for he is good.
all what?
for crying out loud
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What a novel idea it would be nice to hear some crying out loud in are churches
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Let's look at the bright side. How many people here on CathInfo have found good spouses and are raising good Catholic Children? A lot, probably.
If you think your vocation is marriage, then the two most efficacious things you can do, imo, are to hope and to pray. Sure, do the practical things that would give you the best likelihood of finding a good spouse, but resign yourself to God's will and trust Him to find you a good spouse or to remain single.
While virginity seems to be less common these days, there are still many who hold out for their spouses. When I got married I was 29, and my husband was 34. Both still virgins, and not because we never had opportunities or were horribly unattractive, but because we had some sense. Neither of us were raised Catholic, either. Both of us lived in a small town with absolutely no prospects within many miles. And here we are. I always figured that if God could create the world in 6 days, doubting that he could find me a suitable spouse was just silly. Doubting that it's possible to raise good Catholic children is just silly as well. We can. God tells us to, so there must be way.
There are still men and women of good will out there. Don't lose heart!
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As Jen points out, grace is always there, we just have to cooperate. Marriage is a vocation, just like anything else. The family is under attack, so we need stronger families. The problem is not marriage, but sin. It's a janenistic idea to think that marriage is not pleasing to God or that one can't be holy in it. He's the one who created it.
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ha ha... shows what u know
I was attracted to this one person years ago who was very involved with the Church, had been for YEARS. That person was a psychopath, literally
When you say "Church" what you mean is the Novus Ordo. Matthew means that you should meet a Catholic woman in a Catholic Church, particularly one of the SSPX chapels or a Resistance Chapel. I would add a Sedevacantist Chapel to that mix.
Once you start attending the Traditional Catholic Mass you will understand what we are telling you.
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That's an American thing, it was not like that for the Southern Europeans who came to America, like the Italians. Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away, and let the children fend for themselves basically. In my culture, the daughters would remain in the home till they were married to a man that was appropriate in the eyes of the parents, specially the father. The sons were taught a business, how to make a living by the father.
In America they are both sent away from daycare to K-12, to College/work. They must fend for themselves.
Yes, it IS an American thing. As I said, no choice in the matter!
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Why? It shouldn't be.
Maybe not, but name a traditional order that wants a 60 year old in fair health, with no money, who will end up in the street if it doesn't work out? Perhaps there is an order whose mission is running a care home? I'd consider coming as a charity patient if it would secure me Last Rites, a Requiem Mass, and Catholic burial!
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If I do recall lucifer thought he was all that compared to his fellow angels. Anyone without patience and humility should not marry. Blessed be God for he is good.
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Any man who wants no part of raising children should not marry -- even if the prospective wife is past childbearing years.
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Reason is, such a man is not interested in caring for someone else, but is only interested in caring for himself, if that much.
I.e., he only wants to get married to have a woman to take care of HIM, like a waitress or a servant, whom he can TIP.
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hardly anyone should get married
We can see by the divorce rate how true that is
Absolutely correct when talking about America. This land is a corpse that is still warm. It is a wasteland. The people here do not want to be saved. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink. The people here are done. We are ripe to be conquered and extinguished forever.
At this point, it takes two decades for men to learn what it is to be a man. And even then, it is only a few who figure out what a good man is by the time they are in their mid to late thirties. But from their teens until their early thirties, the fruited plain is just one big gαy disco for them all. And by the time they realize how saturated in ignorance and filth they are, they find themselves pierced full of holes and covered in tattoos.
These people have no business raising children. Those who try--for the sake of having a "child accessory"--end up raising feral youths who could give a damn about anything. The previous generations have eaten all of the seed corn, spouting off a bullshit "live and let live" philosophy, all the while pushing their children off the farm and hiring foreign sharecroppers instead of handing down anything. They retire and leave nothing for their children except a legacy of devastation. In fact, these people ARE children, mentally and emotionally. And so what business does a child have raising a child?
Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away, and let the children fend for themselves basically.
This above quote is great. Collectively, I'd say, America needs to learn to wither away. Collectively, it was a rebellious teenager from the start. However, if I'm speaking to individuals...
You'll find a few in the US, but they won't be American and probably not Catholic, either. They will be the adult daughters of Asians, Arabs, Indians, Africans for whom culture dictates an unmarried daughter lives with her parents.
Yes. You will find better, more suitable marriage material outside of this timebomb-Logans-Run-of-a-country. Sure, there's folks who find others here in America. But exceptions are not the rule. Such cases, at this point, are outlier situations. Not the mainstream.
There is no "American family" any longer. It's been successfully destroyed. Who do I blame? Just this one tribe I keep hearing about:
We Jєωs, we, the destroyers, will remain the destroyers for ever. Nothing that you do will meet our needs and demands. We will destroy because we need a world of our own, a God-world, which it is not in your nature to build. Beyond all temporary alliances with this or that action lies the ultimate split in nature and destiny, the enmity between the Game and God.
- Maurice Samuels
The thing that makes Judaism dangerous to everybody, to every race, to every nation, to every idea, is that we smash things that aren’t true, we don’t believe in the boundaries of nation-state, we don’t believe in the ideas of these individual gods that protect individual groups of people; these are all artificial constructions and Judaism really teaches us how to see that. In a sense our detractors have us right, in that we are a corrosive force, we’re breaking down the false gods of all nations and all people because they’re not real and that’s very upsetting to people.
- Douglas Rushkoff
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If a man and woman get married, they should NEVER involve the State by getting a marriage license. You sign your rights over to the State when getting a license. Men, especially, sign their rights over to the State and, effectively, their wives, whom are favored upon by the State in times of marital conflict.
A true marriage is between the man, woman and God, anyway. Only God validates a marriage. The only material act that needs to take place is the marriage Sacrament presided by the priest. Damn the Antichrist State.
Also, parents should never have a State birth certificate of their children. Once you do that, you are compromising your rights as parents, and the sovereignty of the child, to the State, especially Marxist, anti-family agencies such as Department of Social Services, et al.
All you need to do is draft your own birth certificate and have witnesses sign it.
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If a man and woman get married, they should NEVER involve the State by getting a marriage license. You sign your rights over to the State when getting a license. Men, especially, sign their rights over to the State and, effectively, their wives, whom are favored upon by the State in times of marital conflict.
A true marriage is between the man, woman and God, anyway. Only God validates a marriage. The only material act that needs to take place is the marriage Sacrament presided by the priest. Damn the Antichrist State.
Also, parents should never have a State birth certificate of their children. Once you do that, you are compromising your rights as parents, and the sovereignty of the child, to the State, especially Marxist, anti-family agencies such as Department of Social Services, et al.
All you need to do is draft your own birth certificate and have witnesses sign it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrUNdh2zMqc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrUNdh2zMqc)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrUNdh2zMqc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrUNdh2zMqc)
As we like to say: "You need a black man to tell it like it is", 'cause no one else will.
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If you are a man of the world, you are nuts if you get married. There are millions of women for you to shack up with, and you can trade them in as soon as you find a better model.
If you are a real Catholic, it is different, for Catholic marriage is for life, and is totally different in every respect than the world's concept of marriage.
You can't mix the two worlds, for if you do, you will lose your soul or end up living the rest of your life celibate after your divorce.
Two different worlds.
I think the men posting here are mixing the two worlds up.
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If a man and woman get married, they should NEVER involve the State by getting a marriage license. You sign your rights over to the State when getting a license. Men, especially, sign their rights over to the State and, effectively, their wives, whom are favored upon by the State in times of marital conflict.
A true marriage is between the man, woman and God, anyway. Only God validates a marriage. The only material act that needs to take place is the marriage Sacrament presided by the priest. Damn the Antichrist State.
Also, parents should never have a State birth certificate of their children. Once you do that, you are compromising your rights as parents, and the sovereignty of the child, to the State, especially Marxist, anti-family agencies such as Department of Social Services, et al.
All you need to do is draft your own birth certificate and have witnesses sign it.
I had a feeling you were one of those useless sovereign citizen types.
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If you are a man of the world, you are nuts if you get married. There are millions of women for you to shack up with, and you can trade them in as soon as you find a better model.
If you are a real Catholic, it is different, for Catholic marriage is for life, and is totally different in every respect than the world's concept of marriage.
You can't mix the two worlds, for if you do, you will lose your soul or end up living the rest of your life celibate after your divorce.
Two different worlds.
I think the men posting here are mixing the two worlds up.
If you think "trad Catholic" marriages are immune to the world, then you are naïve. There are plenty of "trad Catholic" marriages that end up in infidelity and "divorce".
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If you think "trad Catholic" marriages are immune to the world, then you are naïve. There are plenty of "trad Catholic" marriages that end up in infidelity and "divorce".
You should know better by now than to say I am naïve. What you wrote is strawman, for I don't not think that anyone here ever said that "trad Catholic marriages are immune to the world". As a matter of fact I had just finished writing a new thread that is related to this "trad" marriage, before I saw this posting of yours.
See my thread: Trad Young People Living in Brackish Waters (https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/trad-young-people-living-in-brackish-waters/msg600534/#msg600534)
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This land is a corpse that is still warm. It is a wasteland. The people here do not want to be saved. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink. The people here are done. We are ripe to be conquered and extinguished forever.
Laramie, resist the temptation to give into cynicism. There's plenty of rejects that fit your description above (and most of those are from broken homes due to the baby boomer generation. God can and has mended many families), but not all of america is doomed. Still plenty of good people out there, you just probably don't meet them because they're busy working, at home raising their family, or at church.
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Laramie, resist the temptation to give into cynicism. There's plenty of rejects that fit your description above (and most of those are from broken homes due to the baby boomer generation. God can and has mended many families), but not all of america is doomed. Still plenty of good people out there, you just probably don't meet them because they're busy working, at home raising their family, or at church.
My statement is not emotional cynicism, actually. I truly see the fate of the United States to be a dark one. For starters, the United States is an empire at this point, not a country. It has evolved far beyond what it was originally designed to be. You can't govern jackals with rules written for tigers.
I see two fates for Americans at this stage. #1 This nation balkanizes and experiences a series of cινιℓ ωαrs. That's the best of the two. #2 We become like Haiti or Rhodesia, in which the nation is overrun with barbarity and we become irrelevant.
Our people are dying.
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You'll find a few in the US, but they won't be American and probably not Catholic, either. They will be the adult daughters of Asians, Arabs, Indians, Africans for whom culture dictates an unmarried daughter lives with her parents.
Personally, I'm glad I never married or had children. I see what has happened to those of my age group, 55-65, all divorced, raising their grandkids of assorted unmarried children with multiple partners, all have lost the Faith, most follow no religion whatsoever, a chaotic, charityless mess. I moved out at 18, female or not, it was expected. Wanted when young to be a teaching or medical sister, but by then, the convents were empty, just nuns in pantsuits with bad hair, into occultish trash or silly political causes. I'm nearly 60, too late for sisterhood, fair health, working long hours to survive. I'll be satisfied to die at any time, so long as I'm in a state of grace.
I can relate to a lot of what you say. I am disillusioned w/ the Church also.. deeply
I also don't want to live much longer (paraphrase, I know). I have seen and experienced a lot of... just bad stuff
I read somewhere (but have also had this thought myself) that people shouldn't have children bc most people end up in hell.. It is very easy to end up there... Soemtimes it doesn't seem like God helps people much, either... just saying... not accusing him..
I mean, if enough people in your life do evil to you .. you start thinking God must not be so good.. so loving after all and yet that is illogical bc it isn't God doing it.. (just allowing it but that seems like the same deal)
If there's anything I can do to help.. let me know
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I know I should probably never marry
for one thing, it seems marriage itself leads to... well, here's an example
I knew, just KNEW that when Brad and Angie tied the knot, that was the beginning of the end, they were headed for divorce.
How did i know that?
there's just something about marriage.. it can feel like a trap and etc... and if there is no agape love there, no REAL commitment...
and Jolie is supposed to be getting married again?? geez.. we see how these Hollywood folks value commitment
(not saying I am any better. But at least I know to stay single)
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I see two fates for Americans at this stage.
There's always more than 2 options. Especially when we're talking about human beings and their souls, which God wants to save, and which He will perform miracles for, if hearts open up to grace. Are we headed for rough waters, naturally speaking? Absolutely. Are these rough waters long lasting? It depends on the collective American SPIRITUAL reaction to the coming NATURAL troubles. God spared Ninevah because there were 10 SPIRITUALLY just men in the whole country. God can spare America if those few of us continue to honor Him. Keep praying.
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There's always more than 2 options. Especially when we're talking about human beings and their souls, which God wants to save, and which He will perform miracles for, if hearts open up to grace. Are we headed for rough waters, naturally speaking? Absolutely. Are these rough waters long lasting? It depends on the collective American SPIRITUAL reaction to the coming NATURAL troubles. God spared Ninevah because there were 10 SPIRITUALLY just men in the whole country. God can spare America if those few of us continue to honor Him. Keep praying.
Generalizations are generally correct. We've seen the trend of how people behave in the world. Don't be a silly Americanist, thinking that you are somehow an exception compared to the rest of mankind.
It's not a prediction I look forward to. But it simply is.
(I didn't downthumb you, for what it's worth.)
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Generalizations are generally correct. We've seen the trend of how people behave in the world.
Right, we are an immoral nation, in an immoral world, who's ripe for a chastisement (mostly of our own making). Yet history proves that people generally turn to God when "all hell breaks loose". So, as we both agree that things are bad morally, it follows that an immoral nation will self-destruct, again, which we both agree with. The conclusion to the self-destruction is what we disagree on. I tend to view the future calamities as an opportunity for a spiritual revival, wherein God will have mercy on the mess we've made, once He lets us realize that we can't fix it anymore and we need Him. History proves this "yo yo" up-and-down moral change is normal, over several generations. Scripture also proves this is what happened with the Israelites over and over again. Human nature doesn't change; neither does God.
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Yet history proves that people generally turn to God when "all hell breaks loose".
Only very temporarily. Even the "period of peace" is only supposed to last something like 20 or 25 years following the "chastisement", if those private revelations are even true, before people turn away from God, again, and live in sin.
Look how short-lived people's "conversions" were in the wake of 9/11. It was a joke.
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Worldly people find improvement in their selection by going to a bookstore or concert instead of a bar. Traditional Catholics do not. The woman will still be wearing pants, feminist to some degree, not raised Catholic (huge obstacle to overcome, even if she's of good will and wants to convert).
Most of trad Catholic females are "feminist to some degree" too...
My two grandmothers are not trad Catholics and they are less feminist... They always obeyed their husbands and they did not dare contradict them.
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"But if a man has no wife, but a concubine instead of a wife, let him not be refused communion; only let him be content to be united with one woman, whether wife or concubine" (Can. "Is qui", dist. xxxiv; Mansi, III, col. 1001).
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Yet history proves that people generally turn to God when "all hell breaks loose".
I do not think so because this would contradict the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ in John 15:16:
You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
I don't really think that people turn to God in such circuмstances, if anything, most people die being final impenitent regardless of their miserable circuмstances in life.
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So, as we both agree that things are bad morally, it follows that an immoral nation will self-destruct, again, which we both agree with.
It will self-destruct because these people will NOT reproduce. Winners will get to reproduce. Feminists, and losers will not reproduce, which is good. (of course, there are some who will not reproduce in present time and not only for that fact will be losers, - including religious vocations); but in general, I have high hopes for the next generation, because the depraved ones are for the most part, a dying generation via birth control, abortion, sodomy, single motherhood households, etc.
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This reminded me of something Fr. Feeney said about reproduction in one of his writings. This applies to all large families.
Excerpt from Madonna in the Kitchen by Fr. Feeney:
It is amazing how Providence sees to it that the simple of heart reproduce their kind in great abundance. Nature is constantly at work sloughing off its skeptics and sophisticates by sterility or self-destruction, and by replenishing the world with those who have a sense of reverence and a sense of humor. It is good that this is so. It is good that the meek possess the land… Katie Boggiano has never heard the reasons advanced for the restriction of families, and would probably not comprehend them if they were explained to her. She knows it is hard enough to be poor and have children. She would think it unbearable to be poor and have none. Fidelity to nature’s laws has left her will unhampered by hesitancies, inhibitions and phobias.
http://catholicism.org/downloads/mancipia-2018_1-2.pdf
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You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
This was Our Lord talking to the Apostles, which can also apply to priests/religious. It has nothing to do with the situation I'm talking about - which is a catastrophe like a Hurricane, or an economic collapse where people are starving, or an earthquake which causes devastation.
I don't really think that people turn to God in such circuмstances, if anything, most people die being final impenitent regardless of their miserable circuмstances in life.
This is quite the over-generalization. Certainly there are those who harden their hearts against God in the midst of this (merciful) punishment, but there are many, many, many stories which show that people turn to God when devastation occurs and it deepens their Faith, because God shows them that He is there to help and that He allowed the devastation for a reason. A great but very, very tiny example of this is the bridge which fell in florida last week. There were 2-3 people who were quoted as saying that God helped them rescue this person or helped them do something else. And this circuмstance wasn't even that dire, compared to an earthquake or a flood or something bigger.
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The Word says it is better to stay single bc married people are concerned w/ pleasing spouse and not so focused on pleasing God
If men and women were to marry to help each other become saints, as typified in the Eastern Catholic Mystery of Matrimony, then truly marriage would holy as it should be, and then a new domestic church would be born.
When I met my husband to be, I noticed that he was religious. This made me happy. He was a possibility.
When I talked with him at length, and he shared his desire to convert to Catholicism, this made me extremely happy, and my love for him grew.
When we took our first steps as man and wife while singing the song of Isaiah, I knew that our path was to be one of martyrdom, that we were to die to ourselves so that we could rise with Christ, and I was in tears of joy.
Our goal now is to help our son save his soul so he can lead his wife and children to Christ, so that we can all be together in Heaven. As husband and wife, we pray together daily that we will all be saved through the intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos.
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Yes, it IS an American thing. As I said, no choice in the matter!
I am American and it has not been my thing....what a sad thread.
Let us face reality...until women realize that the greatest job they can have is wife and motherhood, nothing changes. Not only the greatest job but the very hardest of jobs...raising children is a least desired position today, yet so crucial to raising up children of character and dignity.
Too many would rather the easy glamorous way out..a childless life. Indulging in every whim..but the whims lessen and the glamour fades along with age, and what are they left with? To die alone and unrewarded, unfulfilled, and to have done nothing for the betterment of humanity...sad...depressing...lonesome end.
No, I would advise marriage and devotion and family centering...do not abandon parents, parents do not abandon children...I despise the selfish baby boomer generation who have thrown their children out of the nest and selfishly designated their mid to later years as “our time”....nothing is more rewarding than remaining a close family and helping one another through life...multi-generational families will succeed, all others will not.
Yes, the baby boomers are, for the most part, left to themselves to gaze at the giant redwoods, dreaming of their youth, wondering why their children have abandoned them as they slowly fade away...having contributed nothing to the world, to humanity, to anything at all...and with a complete and utter disregard for their own progeny to come.
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If men and women were to marry to help each other become saints, as typified in the Eastern Catholic Mystery of Matrimony, then truly marriage would holy as it should be, and then a new domestic church would be born.
When I met my husband to be, I noticed that he was religious. This made me happy. He was a possibility.
When I talked with him at length, and he shared his desire to convert to Catholicism, this made me extremely happy, and my love for him grew.
When we took our first steps as man and wife while singing the song of Isaiah, I knew that our path was to be one of martyrdom, that we were to die to ourselves so that we could rise with Christ, and I was in tears of joy.
Our goal now is to help our son save his soul so he can lead his wife and children to Christ, so that we can all be together in Heaven. As husband and wife, we pray together daily that we will all be saved through the intercession of the Most Holy Theotokos.
great. But St Paul says it is better not to marry and I believe him. Maybe you are one of the very very few who should marry. Only God knows. But I just know how things go in this antichrist world, so... Relationships are just so awful these days.. but then maybe it always has been that way, human nature being what it is and all
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I am American and it has not been my thing....what a sad thread.
Let us face reality...until women realize that the greatest job they can have is wife and motherhood, nothing changes. Not only the greatest job but the very hardest of jobs...raising children is a least desired position today, yet so crucial to raising up children of character and dignity.
if parents do not plan on disciplining their children and raising them in the Church, they have no business having them. They are just providing Hell with more members
that sound radical and extreme to those in the world, but who cares what they think? And somewhere deep inside, they know at least some of The Truth - just don't want to live by it
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Marriage, like the Church as a Whole, is an instrument of Gods grace that perfects the flawed, a hospital for sinners as it where as opposed to country club for saints. It is a sacrament that over time and cooperation with it, takes the flawed and perfects it over time. As the sculptor takes a piece of stone and carves it into the creation of his minds eye, God uses the sacraments to make us as he ultimately sees us.
Stop being so cynical. As my daughter used to say when she was young and cute, "Pray!"
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Marriage, like the Church as a Whole, is an instrument of Gods grace that perfects the flawed, a hospital for sinners as it where as opposed to country club for saints. It is a sacrament that over time and cooperation with it, takes the flawed and perfects it over time. As the sculptor takes a piece of stone and carves it into the creation of his minds eye, God uses the sacraments to make us as he ultimately sees us.
Stop being so cynical.
you call it cynical
i call it reality
and facingreality
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Brother Bernard of the silver city, NM, monastery: "wouldn't it be great if every one went into religious vocations?"
Me: "but then there would be no more people."
Not necessarily. What prevents God from creating more humans* as He did Adam, out of the slime of the earth?
*(if He deems creating more humans necessary, which it seems it isn't, as the world is sufficiently populated, hence why polygamy is no longer legal in the New Law)
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hardly anyone should get married
That was what Jesus' disciples said when he explained to them about the disolubility of marriage.
God determines the % of people who should marry.
However, it's true that marriage is not "expedient" (συμφέρει (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?la=greek&l=%CF%83%CF%85%CE%BC%CF%86%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%B5%CE%B9)) (Mt. 19:10 (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drl&bk=47&ch=19&l=10-#x)).
(cf. 1Cor 6:12 (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drl&bk=53&ch=6&l=12-#x): "All things are lawful to me: but all things are not expedient.")
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Perhaps it's best that you not marry because you would be a poor spouse. Don't project that on to the rest of the world.
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Graceseeker you sound like you are on the verge of losing your Faith!
You have to put more trust in God and His Holy Mother!
God sends His grace to both the good and the bad, to all of these corrupt people!
All this sin need never affect you if you keep seeking Grace.
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I have not met anyone who was worthy.. plenty I THOUGHT were worthy... until I found out who the person really is (is not)...
Is Christ not sufficient for you?
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hardly anyone should get married
We can see by the divorce rate how true that is
But then there are my experiences in life
I have not met anyone who was worthy.. plenty I THOUGHT were worthy... until I found out who the person really is (is not)...
so why all these marriages going on? I think people see unkosher things in the other just as I do.. but they marry anyway... NOT good.. (depending on how unkosher..)
The Op says:
I have not met anyone who was worthy.
Does this mean not worthy of HIMSELF?
Someone so extraordinarily arrogant should not get married.
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The Op says:
I have not met anyone who was worthy.
Does this mean not worthy of HIMSELF?
Someone so extraordinarily arrogant should not get married.
The OP of this thread is a woman and made the post almost a year ago. She has since been banned.
https://www.cathinfo.com/computers-and-technology/graceseeker-banned/msg606794/#msg606794 (https://www.cathinfo.com/computers-and-technology/graceseeker-banned/msg606794/#msg606794)
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I married late in life. (age 30) That made it hard for me to have the flexibility of habits that the joining of two people need. It has been 25 years now. It is still work. But, I believe that it is God's Work, so I persevere. Very few have ever been called straight to the Monastery or Convent. Marriage is for the rest of us. God's commandment was to "Go Forth and Multiply".
So we do. Sometimes we don't do it well. Sometimes it is easy and fun. However it is what we are called to do.
I'm glad I married. I'd be lonely and alone if I had not, and in my case, my wife (and St Maximillian Kolbe) are the cause of my conversion to the faith. So without marriage, my soul would have been truly lost. For this alone, I am forever grateful.
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Women who do no want to be a stay at home mom and having their children as their number one priority, SHOULD NOT MARRY.
MEN who dont want to financially protect his wife so she could stay at home, SHOULD NOT MARRY
There are plenty of "trad" women working outside and they do not have financial problems. Sometimes encouraged by modern "trad" husbands who want to travel and have a good living standard.
This kind of people should be banned by priests...
I do know a lot of inmature "trads" who believe they are trads because they go to TLM or are against abortion, but agree to leave children at daycare system and live like a modern family.
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You'll find a few in the US, but they won't be American and probably not Catholic, either. They will be the adult daughters of Asians, Arabs, Indians, Africans for whom culture dictates an unmarried daughter lives with her parents.
Personally, I'm glad I never married or had children. I see what has happened to those of my age group, 55-65, all divorced, raising their grandkids of assorted unmarried children with multiple partners, all have lost the Faith, most follow no religion whatsoever, a chaotic, charityless mess. I moved out at 18, female or not, it was expected. Wanted when young to be a teaching or medical sister, but by then, the convents were empty, just nuns in pantsuits with bad hair, into occultish trash or silly political causes. I'm nearly 60, too late for sisterhood, fair health, working long hours to survive. I'll be satisfied to die at any time, so long as I'm in a state of grace.
Marriage isn't for everyone, and many who are married are married to the wrong person or in the wrong vocation. They never bothered to pray for guidance or they just told Our Lord what they thought they should do and went ahead and did it.
I envy you being unattached.
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I'm nearly 60, too late for sisterhood
Where there a will, there a way.
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I believe a 60 yo who is alone and has no family (or hid family isn't catholic) shoulf join a religious order. Maybe with other 60 yo or mature women.
The world is very dangerous to live without other christians.
Real catholics should live together according to their state of life.
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I married an Asian pagan. She by the grace of God converted to the Catholic faith. She has been praying the Rosary and attending Mass even before she got baptized.
Asians are less corrupted and more conservative, they are less prone to divorce. Why don't you try Asians?? Of course you also need to pray in the meantime.
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I believe a 60 yo who is alone and has no family (or hid family isn't catholic) shoulf join a religious order. Maybe with other 60 yo or mature women.
The world is very dangerous to live without other christians.
Real catholics should live together according to their state of life.
It sounds good, but where is this religious order that takes old lady novices? I’ve found one, in France. You need to speak fluent French and be debt free. It’s novus ordo, for me, an automatic deal breaker.
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It’s (convent) novus ordo, for me, an automatic deal breaker.
Chances are it's a nest of lesbians, too.
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Seraphina, maybe you can start a teaching order of sisters.
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Seraphina, maybe you can start a teaching order of sisters.
Not really possible. One needs a foundation, a superior—-I will not operate without one, money, and sisters. One also must have the requisite administrative, financial, and management skills, things for which I have zero aptitude.
There’s also the very serious problem of dealing with the civil authorities and of finding suitable students from truly Catholic homes. Although I am myself, a teacher, if I had children of my own, I would not ever send them to school, not even to a Catholic school. The influence of the few students from bad homes almost always ends up dragging the others down. When parents ask me which school I recommend, I always tell them to homeschool if at all possible.
I do not have the authority or physical health and stamina necessary to start a school.
Have you heard of the problems in New York and in the city in particular? If Cuomo gets his way, the public school administrations will, come September 30, be entering private and religious schools to determine if they are providing a “substantially equivalent curriculum” to that of the public schools. If they determine it is not, the state may shut the school and notify parents within 24 hours to make alternate arrangements for their children. The MSM has said nothing about this “law” concocted illegally by executive order. In NYC, like the state of NY, vaccines are mandatory in all schools for students and staff except by medical exemption. In the city, the exemption must be from a NYC DOE physician or from another physician who submits to the city physicians. They must be M.D.’s, not P.A.s, chiropractors, naturopaths, (not legal in NYS). The city is working to add HPV to the list of mandatory vaccines for children, age 9 and up. That will also include adults. My school has already lost eight very fine large families due to the vaccine issue. If HPV is added, it could very well result in our school closing down after operating since 1948. People like me will get no compensation. None of the younger teachers, although mainly Protestant, will accept the HPV shot, and the majority of parents, even if they accept some of the other shots, will consent to HPV. It’s based upon the premise that children become sɛҳuąƖly active at 10-12 years of age! Personally, I’m not concerned with vaccines since I’m old enough to have had the diseases, and the HPV is ineffective in post-menopausal women.
It has come to the tipping point where one must choose between God and a job. We Catholics already know the majority will compromise. I’ve come to the place in life where, although I don’t like it, I’d rather be homeless and found deceased somewhere than forfeit Heaven. I hope God has other plans, but if He doesn’t, it’s okay. Maybe some other soul can be saved in the process.
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Wow, Seraphina, that's awful.
I can see various ways that "the world" is putting things in place to have it be, "Accept this...or no that". More and more evidence every day towards an anti-Catholic culture.
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I believe a 60 yo who is alone and has no family (or hid family isn't catholic) shoulf join a religious order. Maybe with other 60 yo or mature women.
The world is very dangerous to live without other christians.
Real catholics should live together according to their state of life.
Maybe. Not everyone is called to that life, though. Some of the early saints were called to be hermits. Now, the age limit for joining a religious order is largely a practical one. Ideally, someone should be allowed to join at any age ... except that the costs of healthcare increase with age, and so it would be hard for an order to absorb a lot of older people as the grow closer to the end of their lives.
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Ideally, someone should be allowed to join at any age ... except that the costs of healthcare increase with age, and so it would be hard for an order to absorb a lot of older people as the grow closer to the end of their lives.
That shouldn't stop religious orders from accepting older people, nor should it stop an old single person from joining. If a person in the order faces a serious health issue, they should offer the pain from lack of medical assistance up to the Lord. Both order and prospective candidate should have that understanding before anyone joins.
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It sounds good, but where is this religious order that takes old lady novices? I’ve found one, in France. You need to speak fluent French and be debt free. It’s novus ordo, for me, an automatic deal breaker.
Dear Serafina
Maybe God is calling you to start a new order, I don't now.
But just think about it and talk with a good traditional priest.
Maybe in the past it wasn't common to enter to a religious order at 60 years old. But times have changed, catholics are isolated, the world is very dangerous than it was in the past.
I have read that there were widowers who took vows at mature age. Not the ideal for a single woman, but we don't live in 1940 when one could know at 18 if there was a religious vocation (people were raised catholic, attended Mass since childhood, it was more easy to know it).
Maybe Im wrong, but I believe catholics should live with other catholics.
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Seraphina, maybe you can start a teaching order of sisters.
:applause:
Great idea!
A lot of married women are troubled because they don't know a trad school to send their children...
A religious teaching order could also offer home schooling counseling via internet.
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That shouldn't stop religious orders from accepting older people, nor should it stop an old single person from joining. If a person in the order faces a serious health issue, they should offer the pain from lack of medical assistance up to the Lord. Both order and prospective candidate should have that understanding before anyone joins.
Copy your response out and read it when you are old and in pain.
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:applause:
Great idea!
A lot of married women are troubled because they don't know a trad school to send their children...
A religious teaching order could also offer home schooling counseling via internet.
Are you for real? :fryingpan: Do you really expect a bunch of older women to start a religious order, then a school and have the energy and physical stamina to operate both that would tax much younger people?
These women would be at the age when serious medical issues are showing up.
There is good reason for convents not accepting older women.
What the trad world really needs is a truly Catholic retirement home set up by younger catholics.
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Are you for real? :fryingpan: Do you really expect a bunch of older women to start a religious order, then a school and have the energy and physical stamina to operate both that would tax much younger people?
These women would be at the age when serious medical issues are showing up.
There is good reason for convents not accepting older women.
What the trad world really needs is a truly Catholic retirement home set up by younger catholics.
I dont know her.
I know 60 yo ladies with enough energy and otherd who lack it and need medical support.
Maybe she cant start the order or teach a bunch of 5 yo kids, but can offer schooling counseling to home schooling parents.
I agree about your last statement.
Ps. Yes, Im for real and you dont need to be so rude.
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Maybe. Not everyone is called to that life, though. Some of the early saints were called to be hermits. Now, the age limit for joining a religious order is largely a practical one. Ideally, someone should be allowed to join at any age ... except that the costs of healthcare increase with age, and so it would be hard for an order to absorb a lot of older people as the grow closer to the end of their lives.
Good point.
I dont know Seraphina so I dont know her real situation... and I apologize to her if I said something wrong.
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Copy your response out and read it when you are old and in pain.
!!! True, but go easy on him! He’s probably 30 or younger, unmarried, no children, and has been blessed with reasonably good health and healthcare.
What he’s calling for is heroic virtue, like saints who willingly underwent surgery without anesthesia. That’s an exceptional calling from God, not something one signs up for upon becoming a postulant.
Right now I need new glasses and need to get my teeth filled or pulled. Both will have to wait because I have medical bills from April. I got the flu—-the virulent Australian strain not covered by the vaccine and it went into pneumonia. On top of those two, my Fifth’s Disease flared up along with PVS myalgia and arthritis. They’re all viral. One can only treat symptoms and wait it out. The PVS I’m stuck with barring a miracle. When it flares up, you manage the symptoms and go on as best you can.
Mr. Troubled30 is either young, wealthy, on his parents’ good medical insurance, or from a country with socialized medicine. I have insurance, but it’s not very good and doesn’t cover many things like dental or optical care.
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I dont know her.
I know 60 yo ladies with enough energy and otherd who lack it and need medical support.
Maybe she cant start the order or teach a bunch of 5 yo kids, but can offer schooling counseling to home schooling parents.
I agree about your last statement.
Ps. Yes, Im for real and you dont need to be so rude.
Actually, I do teach a bunch of 5-8 year old kids. Most are 6 or will turn 6 before Jan. 1. I just received my class list of 16 mainly special needs/foreign students. I teach a combination and inclusion spec. ed/ESL first grade in a non-sectarian Christian school in New York City. I wrote a bit about it on this and a few other threads. We are one of very few non-publicly funded religious schools that accepts special needs students.
I find it very difficult due to health issues, so I’d appreciate all the prayer I can get! The way I manage is to pare away as many non-essentials from my life as possible. If I were married with kids and a husband at home, there’s no way I could do this job. During the school week, I rent a semi-furnished room with bath in a private condo two miles from school. I eat breakfast at work, usually a protein smoothie. I’m too busy and tense to eat during the school day, also, I’m in direct charge of children all but 30 minutes from 7:45 - 3:45. The children cannot be left unattended and I have no assistance. Due to scheduling problems, my “break” is over by 10:45, usually earlier and it is often not possible to use a restroom, so not eating or drinking much makes sense. I do planning, correcting, prep work until about 5:45. If I have outside errands, I do them before going home. I’ve arranged with ReadiFresh to drop off meals for the week, and I have my place deep-cleaned every two weeks by a high school girl who lives in the building. On Fridays I leave school and go directly to my parents’ home 80 miles away. I bring my laundry and do it along with my parents’ laundry. My Mom or Dad have a plate ready for me when I get in about 8:30. On Saturdays I do spot cleaning, minor household repairs, and my parents’ shopping for the week. They have a cleaner who comes weekly, and does mending and other small errands as needed. On Sunday, I sleep in. Recently, I’ve been watching Mass on line and praying the Rosary with Mom who doesn’t go out much. She’s on a walker at home, but uses a wheelchair otherwise. My Dad still drives locally during the day and can walk well with a cane, although, like me, he prefers a walking staff! I drive back to school on Monday morning, leaving by 4:30 in good weather, 3:40ish if there’s snow.
Every school day except Friday, I shower as soon as I get home, eat supper, pray the Rosary, and try to be in bed, lights out by 9:00. If I don’t get lots of sleep, my health gives way and my teaching suffers. I don’t have much of a social life or time for recreation. I do a little walking twice a day as I need to park my car a number of blocks away. I have several exercise balls, tension cords, and weights for stretching. I should do some cardio, but swimming is about the only cardio activity I’m able to do and the Y hours don’t suit my schedule. In the summer I do get to swim at my parents’ clubhouse a few times a week. It’s all old folks doing physical therapy in the pool, so there’s no temptation issue. I usually fall asleep meditating, doing spiritual reading, praying for students, or listening to a sermon or conference on line. The other place I pray a lot is in my car commuting the 3+ hours to and from my parents’ house on Friday evening and Monday morning. And that’s pretty much it. Exhausting by day, but fulfilling when the children learn or make progress with language or behavior issues. Otherwise, it’s not too exciting. I just try to keep going because I’m too young to retire, not impaired enough to get SSD, and I can’t afford to quit or work part time. (If I work part time, I get no health insurance at all.)
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What the trad world really needs is a truly Catholic retirement home set up by younger catholics.
The SSPX in the U.S. is planning such a thing (Sarto Village (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-retirement-village/)).
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Not really possible. One needs a foundation, a superior—-I will not operate without one, money, and sisters. One also must have the requisite administrative, financial, and management skills, things for which I have zero aptitude.
How about a pious union (https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35593)? I know of one comprising only about 5 women.
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No one needs to join a religious order or community or a pious union to save their soul. Masses, rosaries and good works are beneficial and necessary for every catholic, whatever their vocation. Those of you who are persuading mature adults into a such a scenario are 1) ignoring the competence of mature adults to make their own decisions and 2) putting your Middle Ages/idealistic fantasies ahead of reality.
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Mr. Troubled30 is either young, wealthy, on his parents’ good medical insurance, or from a country with socialized medicine. I have insurance, but it’s not very good and doesn’t cover many things like dental or optical care.
Dear Seraphina
I apologize , I didnt know about your medical situation.
Ps. Im a woman, I dont have socialized medicine (I have to pay it and I know its very hard). Please forget my last statements.
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Quote from: Miseremini August 30, 2019, 05:47:43 PM
Copy your response out and read it when you are old and in pain.
So you're saying you choose comfort over the Cross? You choose pain-killers over grace? You choose a temporary "fix" over Christ?
Copy your response and read it after you pray the rosary.
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That's an American thing, it was not like that for the Southern Europeans who came to America, like the Italians. Americans are like snakes, they lay their eggs and walk away, and let the children fend for themselves basically. In my culture, the daughters would remain in the home till they were married to a man that was appropriate in the eyes of the parents, specially the father. The sons were taught a business, how to make a living by the father.
In America they are both sent away from daycare to K-12, to College/work. They must fend for themselves.
I was born and raised in ny and nj and it is so true what you say. My family is of dominican and Puerto Rican decent but when they came here and assimilated all of what you speak was slowly driven out of our family. I strongly believe in having our daughters at home until they either marry with papa's consent or become a religious. Also boys must work and either learn a trade or start a business or take over family business. We here do not encourage college...mostly it is just a worldly indoctrination camp...that you pay for!
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I was born and raised in ny and nj and it is so true what you say. My family is of dominican and Puerto Rican decent but when they came here and assimilated all of what you speak was slowly driven out of our family. I strongly believe in having our daughters at home until they either marry with papa's consent or become a religious. Also boys must work and either learn a trade or start a business or take over family business. We here do not encourage college...mostly it is just a worldly indoctrination camp...that you pay for!
That was a traditional catholic family view.
Not allowing your 17yo daughters who go to another city to live as independent man.
Fathers who allow this would have to answer to God ....
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I was born and raised in ny and nj and it is so true what you say. My family is of dominican and Puerto Rican decent but when they came here and assimilated all of what you speak was slowly driven out of our family. I strongly believe in having our daughters at home until they either marry with papa's consent or become a religious. Also boys must work and either learn a trade or start a business or take over family business. We here do not encourage college...mostly it is just a worldly indoctrination camp...that you pay for!
In the late 1800's, the saying went: "Come to America, lose the Faith". Today, the whole world has lost the Faith.