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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: hardly anyone should get married
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 12:36:36 PM »
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  • If you think "trad Catholic" marriages are immune to the world, then you are naïve. There are plenty of "trad Catholic" marriages that end up in infidelity and "divorce".
    You should know better by now than to say I am naïve. What you wrote is strawman, for I don't not think that anyone here ever said that "trad Catholic marriages are immune to the world". As a matter of fact I had just finished writing a new thread that is related to this "trad" marriage, before I saw this posting of yours. 

    See my thread:  Trad Young People Living in Brackish Waters
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 12:41:28 PM »
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    This land is a corpse that is still warm.  It is a wasteland.  The people here do not want to be saved.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink.  The people here are done.  We are ripe to be conquered and extinguished forever.  
    Laramie, resist the temptation to give into cynicism.  There's plenty of rejects that fit your description above (and most of those are from broken homes due to the baby boomer generation.  God can and has mended many families), but not all of america is doomed.  Still plenty of good people out there, you just probably don't meet them because they're busy working, at home raising their family, or at church.


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #32 on: March 20, 2018, 02:00:10 PM »
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  • Laramie, resist the temptation to give into cynicism.  There's plenty of rejects that fit your description above (and most of those are from broken homes due to the baby boomer generation.  God can and has mended many families), but not all of america is doomed.  Still plenty of good people out there, you just probably don't meet them because they're busy working, at home raising their family, or at church.
    My statement is not emotional cynicism, actually.  I truly see the fate of the United States to be a dark one.  For starters, the United States is an empire at this point, not a country.  It has evolved far beyond what it was originally designed to be.  You can't govern jackals with rules written for tigers.  

    I see two fates for Americans at this stage.  #1 This nation balkanizes and experiences a series of civil wars.  That's the best of the two.  #2 We become like Haiti or Rhodesia, in which the nation is overrun with barbarity and we become irrelevant.

    Our people are dying.  
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 02:24:27 PM »
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  • You'll find a few in the US, but they won't be American and probably not Catholic, either.  They will be the adult daughters of Asians, Arabs, Indians, Africans for whom culture dictates an unmarried daughter lives with her parents.  
    Personally, I'm glad I never married or had children.  I see what has happened to those of my age group, 55-65, all divorced, raising their grandkids of assorted unmarried children with multiple partners, all have lost the Faith, most follow no religion whatsoever, a chaotic, charityless mess.  I moved out at 18, female or not, it was expected. Wanted when young to be a teaching or medical sister, but by then, the convents were empty, just nuns in pantsuits with bad hair, into occultish trash or silly political causes.  I'm nearly 60, too late for sisterhood, fair health, working long hours to survive.  I'll be satisfied to die at any time, so long as I'm in a state of grace.  
    I can relate to a lot of what you say. I am disillusioned w/ the Church also.. deeply
    I also don't want to live much longer (paraphrase, I know). I have seen and experienced a lot of... just bad stuff
    I read somewhere (but have also had this thought myself) that people shouldn't have children bc most people end up in hell.. It is very easy to end up there... Soemtimes it doesn't seem like God helps people much, either... just saying... not accusing him..
    I mean, if enough people in your life do evil to you .. you start thinking God must not be so good.. so loving after all and yet that is illogical bc it isn't God doing it.. (just allowing it but that seems like the same deal)

    If there's anything I can do to help.. let me know

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #34 on: March 22, 2018, 03:16:58 PM »
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  • I know I should probably never marry

    for one thing, it seems marriage itself leads to... well, here's an example

    I knew, just KNEW that when Brad and Angie tied the knot, that was the beginning of the end, they were headed for divorce.

    How did i know that?

    there's just something about marriage.. it can feel like a trap and etc... and if there is no agape love there, no REAL commitment...

    and Jolie is supposed to be getting married again?? geez.. we see how these Hollywood folks value commitment 

    (not saying I am any better. But at least I know to stay single)


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 03:37:04 PM »
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    I see two fates for Americans at this stage.
    There's always more than 2 options.  Especially when we're talking about human beings and their souls, which God wants to save, and which He will perform miracles for, if hearts open up to grace.  Are we headed for rough waters, naturally speaking?  Absolutely.  Are these rough waters long lasting?  It depends on the collective American SPIRITUAL reaction to the coming NATURAL troubles.  God spared Ninevah because there were 10 SPIRITUALLY just men in the whole country.  God can spare America if those few of us continue to honor Him.  Keep praying.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 06:17:26 PM »
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  • There's always more than 2 options.  Especially when we're talking about human beings and their souls, which God wants to save, and which He will perform miracles for, if hearts open up to grace.  Are we headed for rough waters, naturally speaking?  Absolutely.  Are these rough waters long lasting?  It depends on the collective American SPIRITUAL reaction to the coming NATURAL troubles.  God spared Ninevah because there were 10 SPIRITUALLY just men in the whole country.  God can spare America if those few of us continue to honor Him.  Keep praying.
    Generalizations are generally correct.  We've seen the trend of how people behave in the world.  Don't be a silly Americanist, thinking that you are somehow an exception compared to the rest of mankind.  

    It's not a prediction I look forward to.  But it simply is.

    (I didn't downthumb you, for what it's worth.)
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #37 on: March 22, 2018, 07:17:20 PM »
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    Generalizations are generally correct.  We've seen the trend of how people behave in the world.
    Right, we are an immoral nation, in an immoral world, who's ripe for a chastisement (mostly of our own making).  Yet history proves that people generally turn to God when "all hell breaks loose".  So, as we both agree that things are bad morally, it follows that an immoral nation will self-destruct, again, which we both agree with.  The conclusion to the self-destruction is what we disagree on.  I tend to view the future calamities as an opportunity for a spiritual revival, wherein God will have mercy on the mess we've made, once He lets us realize that we can't fix it anymore and we need Him.  History proves this "yo yo" up-and-down moral change is normal, over several generations.  Scripture also proves this is what happened with the Israelites over and over again.  Human nature doesn't change; neither does God.


    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #38 on: March 22, 2018, 09:41:38 PM »
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  • Yet history proves that people generally turn to God when "all hell breaks loose".  

    Only very temporarily. Even the "period of peace" is only supposed to last something like 20 or 25 years following the "chastisement", if those private revelations are even true, before people turn away from God, again, and live in sin.

    Look how short-lived people's "conversions" were in the wake of 9/11. It was a joke.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #39 on: March 23, 2018, 05:47:00 AM »
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    Worldly people find improvement in their selection by going to a bookstore or concert instead of a bar. Traditional Catholics do not. The woman will still be wearing pants, feminist to some degree, not raised Catholic (huge obstacle to overcome, even if she's of good will and wants to convert).

    Most of trad Catholic females are "feminist to some degree" too...

    My two grandmothers are not trad Catholics and they are less feminist... They always obeyed their husbands and they did not dare contradict them.
    The baptism of desire and the baptism of blood are dogmas of faith and truths of natural reason: see the article of the New Advent Encyclopedia on baptism, and Catholic Essentials. Those who deny the baptism of desire, the baptism of blood,

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #40 on: March 24, 2018, 11:53:36 PM »
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    "But if a man has no wife, but a concubine instead of a wife, let him not be refused communion; only let him be content to be united with one woman, whether wife or concubine" (Can. "Is qui", dist. xxxiv; Mansi, III, col. 1001).
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)


    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #41 on: March 25, 2018, 12:49:00 AM »
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    Yet history proves that people generally turn to God when "all hell breaks loose".

    I do not think so because this would contradict the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ in John 15:16:

    Quote
    You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    I don't really think that people turn to God in such circumstances, if anything, most people die being final impenitent regardless of their miserable circumstances in life.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #42 on: March 25, 2018, 01:01:25 AM »
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    So, as we both agree that things are bad morally, it follows that an immoral nation will self-destruct, again, which we both agree with.

    It will self-destruct because these people will NOT reproduce. Winners will get to reproduce. Feminists, and losers will not reproduce, which is good. (of course, there are some who will not reproduce in present time and not only for that fact will be losers, - including religious vocations); but in general, I have high hopes for the next generation, because the depraved ones are for the most part, a dying generation via birth control, abortion, sodomy, single motherhood households, etc.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #43 on: March 25, 2018, 01:28:01 AM »
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  • This reminded me of something Fr. Feeney said about reproduction in one of his writings. This applies to all large families.

    Excerpt from Madonna in the Kitchen by Fr. Feeney:

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    It is amazing how Providence sees to it that the simple of heart reproduce their kind in great abundance. Nature is constantly at work sloughing off its skeptics and sophisticates by sterility or self-destruction, and by replenishing the world with those who have a sense of reverence and a sense of humor. It is good that this is so. It is good that the meek possess the land… Katie Boggiano has never heard the reasons advanced for the restriction of families, and would probably not comprehend them if they were explained to her. She knows it is hard enough to be poor and have children. She would think it unbearable to be poor and have none. Fidelity to nature’s laws has left her will unhampered by hesitancies, inhibitions and phobias.

    http://catholicism.org/downloads/mancipia-2018_1-2.pdf

    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: hardly anyone should get married
    « Reply #44 on: March 25, 2018, 12:33:08 PM »
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    You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go, and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
    This was Our Lord talking to the Apostles, which can also apply to priests/religious.  It has nothing to do with the situation I'm talking about - which is a catastrophe like a Hurricane, or an economic collapse where people are starving, or an earthquake which causes devastation.


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    I don't really think that people turn to God in such circumstances, if anything, most people die being final impenitent regardless of their miserable circumstances in life.
    This is quite the over-generalization.  Certainly there are those who harden their hearts against God in the midst of this (merciful) punishment, but there are many, many, many stories which show that people turn to God when devastation occurs and it deepens their Faith, because God shows them that He is there to help and that He allowed the devastation for a reason.  A great but very, very tiny example of this is the bridge which fell in florida last week.  There were 2-3 people who were quoted as saying that God helped them rescue this person or helped them do something else.  And this circumstance wasn't even that dire, compared to an earthquake or a flood or something bigger.

     

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