Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: grace of God vs brainwashing  (Read 1405 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline spouse of Jesus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1903
  • Reputation: +336/-4
  • Gender: Female
grace of God vs brainwashing
« on: September 18, 2009, 04:09:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   I heard that a preganant woman was among a selfbombing group. I really wondered how could someone conquer her mothering instinct for the sake of a socalled future reward?
      My dad said that it was result of brianwashing. But still I have some problem....

      I believe in God, I believe in The Beatific Vision, yet I can't prevent myself from eating an extra amount of chocolate. I try to convince myself not to eat it:"God will be displeased, you will be less dear to Him" nevertheless I end in eating all of it!
      How is it that a silly love for a fake future reward can make someone forget her own child (and kill him), while my desire for seeing God in heaven can't keep me from overeating????


    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 07:59:29 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    I believe in God, I believe in The Beatific Vision, yet I can't prevent myself from eating an extra amount of chocolate. I try to convince myself not to eat it:"God will be displeased, you will be less dear to Him"


    Remember first of all that all of us, excluding a miracle ability, must eat.

    Now it is natural for us to eat good food, and very hard for us to only eat plain and especially disgusting food.  So naturally there is a very strong inclination to eat chocolate, and that can be come disordered into an excessive desire for it.

    I have a problem with coffee.  I was able to stop drinking after a couple of days of headaches, then I started drinking again, and haven't been able to stop.  The problem I think, is that I still think I must have it to energize myself.

    My confessor told me something very important, he said:

    "We can do nothing good without God."

    We cannot overcome inclinations towards evil without grace.  Now, in order not to eat chocolate, you must put yourself in a position where there is none available.  When I run out of coffee beans, I will not buy any more, that is part of my plan to quit drinking coffee.  To quit smoking or drinking, the most important thing was to get rid of the tobacco and the liquor.

    Secondly, you must develop good habits.  Every day you should only eat at fixed times, and develop a good idea of what you will eat at each meal.  First set a goal for each meal.  If you find it is not sufficient, you may adjust slightly the amount you eat at each meal.  Hopefully you will be able to develop the habit of only eating what you should eat.  Every day must be practice.  Try to fast when you are able.  This will help to build discipline.  And pray for grace, because without grace it is impossible to do anything good.





    Offline Telesphorus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 12713
    • Reputation: +22/-13
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 08:08:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Another thing to remember is that ѕυιcιdє is committed by people who have despaired of life.  That despair is a powerful force from evil spirits, if the person tempted does not resist their temptations, but is convinced by the demons they can escape life into bliss, and take their child with them, it is something they might have a hard time resisting.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1903
    • Reputation: +336/-4
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 10:39:21 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   a very logical answer...
    Thank you!

    Offline Jehanne

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2561
    • Reputation: +459/-11
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 10:44:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have only heard about this story in passing (it is very depressing, and I do not want the particulars.)  Not brainwashing, I think, but both despair and hope.  Despair with this life, but hope in the next, in this case, the Islamic afterlife.  I suppose that the recent ѕυιcιdє bombings are like the mass ѕυιcιdє of Jєωs at Masada.  Instead of inevitable defeat at the hands of the Romans, those Jєωs choose the afterlife, and creatively killed themselves to achieve their goal:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masada

    Perhaps some similar is going on here.  I hope and pray that these individuals receive salutatory repentance.


    Offline Jehanne

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2561
    • Reputation: +459/-11
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 10:46:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I wish that I could edit my posts!!  Ugh!!

    those Jєωs chose the aftelife...

    Perhaps something similar is going on here...

    Offline CM

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2726
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 09:03:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Those Jєωs and the Muslims both are choosing hell.  I also hope they receive salutary repentance and CONVERSION to the true Faith of Jesus Christ, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation.

    Offline Elizabeth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4845
    • Reputation: +2194/-15
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #7 on: September 18, 2009, 09:56:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I am wondering if it is easier to sacrifice for a false religion than to mortify oneself for the love of Christ?

    Could that be true?  Because sometimes mortification by our own means is really hard, as opposed to the things that God gives us to bear.

    Does anyone remember what St. John Vianney said about ѕυιcιdє?


    Offline spouse of Jesus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1903
    • Reputation: +336/-4
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #8 on: September 19, 2009, 01:18:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   It is strange that they can sacrifice their lives, babies, money etc. for the love of a false religion, while I can't make a little sacrifice of "not sleeping too much" for the love of Christ.
      Maybe... I am devoid of charity...

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #9 on: September 19, 2009, 03:23:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus


      I believe in God, I believe in The Beatific Vision, yet I can't prevent myself from eating an extra amount of chocolate. I try to convince myself not to eat it:"God will be displeased, you will be less dear to Him" nevertheless I end in eating all of it!
      How is it that .....my desire for seeing God in heaven can't keep me from overeating????


    Alas, I have the very same problem with chocolate and overeating. I would be willing to be jailed rather than offend God by telling a small lie but, when it comes to overeating on foods I enjoy (especially chocolate), I easily turn my back on God - I am thinking about God and how I am offending Him all the while committing the sin of overindulgence. It's funny that you should bring this up because I was just thinking about this weakness of mine today and trying to understand the "why?" myself.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1903
    • Reputation: +336/-4
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #10 on: September 19, 2009, 03:41:10 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •   Overeating is bad. But there are also other things....
    Sometimes I want to oversleep, it is useless to tell myself to wake up for 6 am to say the Angelus. I try to imagine how much Jesus will smile if I just jump out of bed to say this short prayer, but not only I don't jump out of bed, but I sleep till 10:30 am! It is very disgusting if you consider that even abusive parents do wake up early to work or to care for their children... It seems that I love Jesus less than a bad parent loves his/her child!


    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #11 on: September 19, 2009, 03:51:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     Overeating is bad. But there are also other things....
    Sometimes I want to oversleep, it is useless to tell myself to wake up for 6 am to say the Angelus. I try to imagine how much Jesus will smile if I just jump out of bed to say this short prayer, but not only I don't jump out of bed, but I sleep till 10:30 am! It is very disgusting if you consider that even abusive parents do wake up early to work or to care for their children... It seems that I love Jesus less than a bad parent loves his/her child!


    People's bodies cope differently. Some people can go on little sleep while others cannot. It does not mean that if you are unable to wake up for Angelus that you are sinning or love God less. God sees your desire. It is not your fault if your body can not handle little sleep.

    Offline Alex

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1407
    • Reputation: +265/-4
    • Gender: Female
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #12 on: September 19, 2009, 03:53:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • By the way, I was dealing with the same guilty feelings a few years ago - except it wasn't to wake up to say the Angelus but to go to daily Mass.

    Offline CM

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2726
    • Reputation: +1/-0
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #13 on: September 19, 2009, 05:52:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    Maybe... I am devoid of charity...


    Do you mean divine charity?  Of course you are.  You are not baptized.  All you have is some prevenient grace that calls you to repentence of your sins, belief in the mysteries and baptism.

    Until you are baptized you have not Faith, Hope or Charity.

    Learn and profess the true Faith, and GET BAPTIZED EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU!!!

    Quote from: Trent, on Justification,
    ...the instrumental cause (of Justification) is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified; lastly, the alone formal cause is the justice of God, not that whereby He Himself is just, but that whereby He maketh us just, that, to wit, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and we are not only reputed, but are truly called, and are, just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to every one as He wills, and according to each one's proper disposition and co-operation. For, although no one can be just, but he to whom the merits of the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet is this done in the said justification of the impious, when by the merit of that same most holy Passion, the charity of God is poured forth, by the Holy Spirit, in the hearts of those that are justified, and is inherent therein: whence, man, through Jesus Christ, in whom he is ingrafted, receives, in the said justification, together with the remission of sins, all these (gifts) infused at once, faith, hope, and charity.


    How can you have charity, while unbaptized, if they are all infused at one with the remission of sins at baptism?  You can't.

    If you listen to heretics who believe in baptism of desire, they will have you believing that you can be justified right now as you are.

    They might say "Oh she seems so nice, certainly she is not on the road to hell"

    If you allow these thought to get the better of you, then you are being deceived by the evil spirit who hopes you never get baptized.

    Offline Jehanne

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2561
    • Reputation: +459/-11
    • Gender: Male
    grace of God vs brainwashing
    « Reply #14 on: September 19, 2009, 07:26:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Those Jєωs and the Muslims both are choosing hell.  I also hope they receive salutary repentance and CONVERSION to the true Faith of Jesus Christ, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation.


    Another word that I have been spelling wrong!  Ugh!!  So, you believe in salutary repentance , that is, repentance at the moment of death, of course, which means that Baptism is not available?!