Author Topic: Got a Letter from SSPX Society (Read 1091 times)

trickster · « **on:** July 14, 2014, 05:02:09 PM »

Hi all. There is a SSPX parish about 10 miles away and I have been in touch with them to start understanding within an archdiocesan level what our relationships are and whether or not I can recieve communion in a TC mass.

While respecting privacy of the letter I an say that the main points are as follows;

1. That the SSPX society considers itself in communion with Rome and Catholics in good standing BUT are being prosecuted.

2. That the SSPX accepts all the dogma's of the church and that the current pope is the legitimate successor of Peter

3. That the SSPX is willing to obey "legitimate" commands but not conform to any desires, etc., that might be destructive to the church (and isnt that what all Catholics including N.O. Catholics are called to?)

So given this official response to my question about my participating with my brothers and sisters of the SSPX order in Langley, I am encouraged to continue and ask questions in order to learn. If the above statements are broadly held by the SSPX society why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

This encourages me as well to understand better what the position of SSPX so that - not only do I not become one of those N.O. prosecutors, but one who can reason with my own community about what Traditional Catholicism is about. From what I can see, there is that much difference; some take views in a narrow far more extreme than mine, but that is not a fair reflection on Traditional catholics because N.O. Catholics also have a problem with my progressive tendencies :)

Anyways, I be interested in learning your thoughts.

Bruce Ferguson

Trickster

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2014, 05:43:13 PM »

As far as I understand, this is essentially the official SSPX concept of itself. It is also, as far as I understand the SSPX Resistance concept of itself.

I don't understand your question:

Quote

Why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

From where are you getting feedback and what is the connection you're talking about?

And did you mean there's NOT that much difference or there is a lot of difference? And difference between what?

MyrnaM · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2014, 05:53:00 PM »

Quote from: trickster

So given this official response to my question about my participating with my brothers and sisters of the SSPX order in Langley, I am encouraged to continue and ask questions in order to learn. If the above statements are broadly held by the SSPX society why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

This encourages me as well to understand better what the position of SSPX so that - not only do I not become one of those N.O. prosecutors, but one who can reason with my own community about what Traditional Catholicism is about. From what I can see, there is that much difference; some take views in a narrow far more extreme than mine, but that is not a fair reflection on Traditional catholics because N.O. Catholics also have a problem with my progressive tendencies :)

Anyways, I be interested in learning your thoughts.

Bruce Ferguson

Trickster

God forgive me if I am wrong, and I hope I am, but why is it all your notes here seem so sinister, maybe you are just too polite. I hope that is it.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2014, 06:10:44 PM »

Quote from: trickster

Hi all. There is a SSPX parish about 10 miles away and I have been in touch with them to start understanding within an archdiocesan level what our relationships are and whether or not I can recieve communion in a TC mass.

While respecting privacy of the letter I an say that the main points are as follows;

1. That the SSPX society considers itself in communion with Rome and Catholics in good standing BUT are being prosecuted.

2. That the SSPX accepts all the dogma's of the church and that the current pope is the legitimate successor of Peter

3. That the SSPX is willing to obey "legitimate" commands but not conform to any desires, etc., that might be destructive to the church (and isnt that what all Catholics including N.O. Catholics are called to?)

So given this official response to my question about my participating with my brothers and sisters of the SSPX order in Langley, I am encouraged to continue and ask questions in order to learn. If the above statements are broadly held by the SSPX society why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

This encourages me as well to understand better what the position of SSPX so that - not only do I not become one of those N.O. prosecutors, but one who can reason with my own community about what Traditional Catholicism is about. From what I can see, there is that much difference; some take views in a narrow far more extreme than mine, but that is not a fair reflection on Traditional catholics because N.O. Catholics also have a problem with my progressive tendencies :)

Anyways, I be interested in learning your thoughts.

Bruce Ferguson

Trickster

For starters, if you try to have a debate with someone from the N.O. about the SSPX they are not going to take you very seriously.

Frances · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2014, 06:12:20 PM »

:dancing-banana:
I think you mean "persecuted" not "prosecuted."

trickster · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2014, 07:51:24 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

As far as I understand, this is essentially the official SSPX concept of itself. It is also, as far as I understand the SSPX Resistance concept of itself.

I don't understand your question:
Quote
Why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

From where are you getting feedback and what is the connection you're talking about?

And did you mean there's NOT that much difference or there is a lot of difference? And difference between what?

Many of the posters on Catholic Answers and CathInfo say that they do not accept the Novus Ordo Mass which of course is the ordinary form of Mass for the conciliar church, yet the SSPX letter says they are in communion, so that would imply an acceptance of the Novus Ordo mass, would it not? In any case, I am beginning to sense that the traditional catholic community is a diverse community and the position fo SSPX is just one positing in the range of positions...that was more or less what the question was pointing at.

Traditional Catholics are labeled by Conservative catholics in catholic Answers as not Catholic cause the TC doesn't accept our popes and then the TC says that going to a Novus Ordo Mass if not a sin, is pretty close to one....so that is the difference that I am talking about..

Hope that clarifies it for yah TKGS.

Bruce

trickster · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2014, 07:55:03 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Quote from: trickster

So given this official response to my question about my participating with my brothers and sisters of the SSPX order in Langley, I am encouraged to continue and ask questions in order to learn. If the above statements are broadly held by the SSPX society why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

This encourages me as well to understand better what the position of SSPX so that - not only do I not become one of those N.O. prosecutors, but one who can reason with my own community about what Traditional Catholicism is about. From what I can see, there is that much difference; some take views in a narrow far more extreme than mine, but that is not a fair reflection on Traditional catholics because N.O. Catholics also have a problem with my progressive tendencies :)

Anyways, I be interested in learning your thoughts.

Bruce Ferguson

Trickster

God forgive me if I am wrong, and I hope I am, but why is it all your notes here seem so sinister, maybe you are just too polite. I hope that is it.

MyrnaM I am not sure why you would be interpreting my writing as sinister...it might be helpful if you give me a few examples of my writing that you find sinister. That would be very helpful to me, because if I can minimize giving people the wrong impression by being sensitive to how my words are coming across...well "I'm in".... The misunderstanding could be as simple as how I construct my sentences.

Bruce

trickster · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2014, 07:59:43 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: trickster
Hi all. There is a SSPX parish about 10 miles away and I have been in touch with them to start understanding within an archdiocesan level what our relationships are and whether or not I can recieve communion in a TC mass.

While respecting privacy of the letter I an say that the main points are as follows;

1. That the SSPX society considers itself in communion with Rome and Catholics in good standing BUT are being prosecuted.

2. That the SSPX accepts all the dogma's of the church and that the current pope is the legitimate successor of Peter

3. That the SSPX is willing to obey "legitimate" commands but not conform to any desires, etc., that might be destructive to the church (and isnt that what all Catholics including N.O. Catholics are called to?)

So given this official response to my question about my participating with my brothers and sisters of the SSPX order in Langley, I am encouraged to continue and ask questions in order to learn. If the above statements are broadly held by the SSPX society why am I getting the feedback that there is no connection?

This encourages me as well to understand better what the position of SSPX so that - not only do I not become one of those N.O. prosecutors, but one who can reason with my own community about what Traditional Catholicism is about. From what I can see, there is that much difference; some take views in a narrow far more extreme than mine, but that is not a fair reflection on Traditional catholics because N.O. Catholics also have a problem with my progressive tendencies :)

Anyways, I be interested in learning your thoughts.

Bruce Ferguson

Trickster

For starters, if you try to have a debate with someone from the N.O. about the SSPX they are not going to take you very seriously.

I am not sure if you can simply sweep away a lot of thinking people in the N.O and T.C communities, there are a lot of great thinkers in both. Secondly we share 1500 years together and only 50 or so in this latest haze. So the conversation must go on. It is essential that we bury some differences (i.e. who can hear confession or give last rites) when - because of necessity - a person's soul is at risk...we owe it to these people and souls to get our act together as a church and check our bagage of pride out at the door..

As a N.O. person myself I am taking TC very serioiusly and I am not sure if they are used to an authentic interest...as by many of the posts you can almost wear the suspicion TC people have of you as a N.O. in this CathInfo forum...so you have at least one N.O. person interested and taking T.C very seriously...there are more... of course.

Bruce

Nadir · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2014, 03:44:03 AM »

Quote from: trickster

Quote from: TKGS
As far as I understand, this is essentially the official SSPX concept of itself. It is also, as far as I understand the SSPX Resistance concept of itself.

Many of the posters on Catholic Answers and CathInfo say that they do not accept the Novus Ordo Mass which of course is the ordinary form of Mass for the conciliar church, yet the SSPX letter says they are in communion, so that would imply an acceptance of the Novus Ordo mass, would it not? In any case, I am beginning to sense that the traditional catholic community is a diverse community and the position fo SSPX is just one positing in the range of positions...that was more or less what the question was pointing at.

Traditional Catholics are labeled by Conservative catholics in catholic Answers as not Catholic cause the TC doesn't accept our popes and then the TC says that going to a Novus Ordo Mass if not a sin, is pretty close to one....so that is the difference that I am talking about..

Hope that clarifies it for yah TKGS.

Bruce

If SSPX does a deal with Rome, as they have been working on for a few years now, they will have to accept the Novus Ordo. This is why a breakaway or expelled group of priests by the popular name of "the resistance", as TGKS has mentioned, are now operating independemtly of the SSPX. The heads of the SSPX have not remained faithful to the original intent of Abp LeFebvre and his purposes in setting up the organisation.

Officially the SSPX are not in communion with apostate Rome, but behind the scenes they are continuing to make inroads into the destruction of tradition.

Still you should attend the SSPX chapel 10 miles from you, if only to experience the beauty of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Yes, indeed, there are many variations of people who call themselves traditional. There are those who go for aesthietic reasons (smells and bells) without understanding that tradtition is not an optional extra but an essential part of the practice of the Faith.

2 Thessalonians 2:14
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Nadir · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2014, 03:49:14 AM »

Bruce, what is this

Quote

Secondly we share 1500 years together

The Novus ordo and the newchurch did not exist until the 1960's at the earliest, so how was it possible to "share" 1500 years with a non-existent sect? Also why did you say 1500 instead of 1900? Was that a typo?

trickster · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2014, 11:36:30 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Bruce, what is this
Quote
Secondly we share 1500 years together

The Novus ordo and the newchurch did not exist until the 1960's at the earliest, so how was it possible to "share" 1500 years with a non-existent sect? Also why did you say 1500 instead of 1900? Was that a typo?

Oops, your right. . I was never good at math!

Bruce :cheers:

trickster · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2014, 11:44:23 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: trickster
Quote from: TKGS
As far as I understand, this is essentially the official SSPX concept of itself. It is also, as far as I understand the SSPX Resistance concept of itself.

Many of the posters on Catholic Answers and CathInfo say that they do not accept the Novus Ordo Mass which of course is the ordinary form of Mass for the conciliar church, yet the SSPX letter says they are in communion, so that would imply an acceptance of the Novus Ordo mass, would it not? In any case, I am beginning to sense that the traditional catholic community is a diverse community and the position fo SSPX is just one positing in the range of positions...that was more or less what the question was pointing at.

Traditional Catholics are labeled by Conservative catholics in catholic Answers as not Catholic cause the TC doesn't accept our popes and then the TC says that going to a Novus Ordo Mass if not a sin, is pretty close to one....so that is the difference that I am talking about..

Hope that clarifies it for yah TKGS.

Bruce

If SSPX does a deal with Rome, as they have been working on for a few years now, they will have to accept the Novus Ordo. This is why a breakaway or expelled group of priests by the popular name of "the resistance", as TGKS has mentioned, are now operating independemtly of the SSPX. The heads of the SSPX have not remained faithful to the original intent of Abp LeFebvre and his purposes in setting up the organisation.

Officially the SSPX are not in communion with apostate Rome, but behind the scenes they are continuing to make inroads into the destruction of tradition.

Still you should attend the SSPX chapel 10 miles from you, if only to experience the beauty of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Yes, indeed, there are many variations of people who call themselves traditional. There are those who go for aesthietic reasons (smells and bells) without understanding that tradtition is not an optional extra but an essential part of the practice of the Faith.

2 Thessalonians 2:14
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Hello Nadir. Two things come to mind; (1) OK, now the resistance makes sense, I did not know the politics developing within the TC community, I remember the successor to Lefebre (spelling) saw some possibilities to articulate how the SSPX could better express their unity as was sought so strongly by Benedict and (2) I do remember the traditional mass, it did not change until I was about 9 or 10 years old, with changes to how we recieve communion coming much later.

You are right though, just because I remember the old mass I haven't participated in it for a good 45+ years, so I have forgotten some of it...my memory of whether confession or communion came first, it was pretty blurry in my memory...and that is natural when something is not in practice for sometimes.

I agree with you that there is an inconsistency or unquestioned concerns that arise out of the inconsistency of trying to fit the traditional mass into a non-traditional setting, if that indeed is the case...whether the church is new or a continuation of the church that is a very key question in my mind. I personally believe we are one and the same church, I don't believe we have been abandonned by the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, as always it is good to hear your perspectives and I promise to connect with our local SSPX family in town.

Bruce Ferguson
trickster