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Author Topic: Geocentrism?  (Read 4822 times)

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Offline Dylan

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Geocentrism?
« on: May 24, 2010, 04:53:47 PM »
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  • There are some Traditionalist circles which teach that Geocentrism an infallible Doctrine of the Church and that Heliocentrism was infallibly condemned by the Church and thus, a faithful Catholic may not accept it. For example:

    http://www.johnthebaptist.us/sbw/articles/rjmi%20catholic%20articles/ar16_earth_center_universe.htm
    Moderator: The above link is the work of a complete nut job. Please beware! Visit at your own risk.

    http://www.scripturecatholic.com/geocentrism.html

    Is this true? Must a Catholic accept Geocentrism? I'm not really well-read on this specific topic, theologically or scientifically, but I'm willing to consider the possibility of either Heliocentrism or Geocentrism and the arguments for either of them, so I'd like to read some of your answers and commentaries about it.

    Thanks.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #1 on: May 24, 2010, 04:59:55 PM »
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  • Quote
    Is this true? Must a Catholic accept Geocentrism?


    I hope not.


    Offline Dylan

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #2 on: May 24, 2010, 07:45:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    Is this true? Must a Catholic accept Geocentrism?


    I hope not.


    Those are my sentiments as well.

    Offline roscoe

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #3 on: May 24, 2010, 07:48:09 PM »
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  • I do not accept either heliocentrism or geocentrism.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Sigismund

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #4 on: May 24, 2010, 09:23:40 PM »
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  • It is really settled science, folks.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline roscoe

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #5 on: May 24, 2010, 09:24:20 PM »
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  • What is? Possibly my research on Galileo will be of interest.

    http://firstjesuits.wordpress.com
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Jamie

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #6 on: May 24, 2010, 09:24:56 PM »
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  • Neither is dogmatic nor could they be - even Aquinas admitted that geocentrism was merely the most probable system derived at the time.  Both systems merely try to put order to the stars by their motion in the skies - both do a good job of it though some think geocentrism does a better job and explains some of the problems that heliocentrism has.

    I tend towards geocentrism but not from a scientific perspective as I have too little knowledge of the subject - I do so out of respect for tradition and as it accords nicely with the scriptures.

    So ultimately we will not know the true system unless we are blessed to join in the beatific vision.

    I will say however, that we can certainly say that the universe has a center and an end point - that must be the case as the universe cannot be infinite.

    Offline roscoe

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #7 on: May 24, 2010, 09:36:11 PM »
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  • 'Certainly'?
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Dylan

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 12:24:41 AM »
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  • Offline Jamie

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 12:36:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    'Certainly'?


    Yes - it either has limited bounds or it is infinite.  It can't be infinite because then it would have neither beginning nor end and only God has neither beginning nor end.  For the universe to be infinite we would need an infinite causal regress which is impossible.

    Offline roscoe

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 12:59:53 AM »
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  • The verdict of INQ in 1633( which is what matters and is still true today) was that Copernicanism is a false astronomical doctrine. One part of that 3 part doctrine is none the less true-- the idea that E rev around S.

    I don't need an explanation for that Jamie. What about the center of the Universe? My understanding is that INQ decided that irrespective of the physical location of E, it is the center of U in a Spiritual sense above all else.

    There is nothing in the U that is fixed although it may appear E is if someone was writing in an age when there was no scientific evidence to the contrary.  We have all ridden on an escalator when it seems like everything else is moving except us.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 01:30:02 AM »
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  •   The greastest thing about the whole matter is that unlike what modernists say, the dignity of man lies in the fact that God has made him and died for him, not in his education degree.
      Even if you believe that the earth is a cube, or that the moon is the center it won't make you less human, or less loved loved by God...
     :rahrah: :rahrah:
     :applause: :applause:

    Offline Jamie

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 01:53:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: roscoe
    The verdict of INQ in 1633( which is what matters and is still true today) was that Copernicanism is a false astronomical doctrine. One part of that 3 part doctrine is none the less true-- the idea that E rev around S.

    I don't need an explanation for that Jamie. What about the center of the Universe? My understanding is that INQ decided that irrespective of the physical location of E, it is the center of U in a Spiritual sense above all else.

    There is nothing in the U that is fixed although it may appear E is if someone was writing in an age when there was no scientific evidence to the contrary.  We have all ridden on an escalator when it seems like everything else is moving except us.


    I understand that the universe is moving - panta rhei in the worlds of (I think) Thales.  But the fact remains, if the universe has an outer bound, it has a central point.  That makes no difference to either heliocentrism or geocentrism - it can be true under both systems.

    This also doesn't detract from the fact that the Earth is the spiritual center of the universe either - that is true regardless of any physical center.  But there is also no proof (and can't be in fact) that the earth is not also the physical center.

    Offline Dylan

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 01:12:09 PM »
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  • Offline roscoe

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    Geocentrism?
    « Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 01:42:05 PM »
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  • Acc to the above post by Jamie, St Thomas only thought geo-centrism probable- not a part of the magisterium that HAS  to be accepted. Having said that I do believe the Earth to be the center of the spiritual universe irrespective of it's physical location.

    Last night I posted my Real Galileo research in the Unexplained Forum of Space.com It was removed by the time I woke up this AM.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'