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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Cera on March 23, 2020, 01:31:41 PM

Title: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Cera on March 23, 2020, 01:31:41 PM
Like many others here on CathInfo, we grow vegetables and fruit year round, but at this time it would be good for everyone to grow some of their food. I have been PMing a new gardener here on CathInfo and think it would be helpful if experienced gardeners assist those who are just starting out.

The more we reduce our dependence on the system, the better off we are.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 23, 2020, 03:37:03 PM
Great idea. 
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 23, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
be happy to help. 
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Cera on March 23, 2020, 06:06:41 PM
be happy to help.
Someone here who is starting a garden for the first time was wondering about the use of lime in the garden. Also, he was going to put down a layer of plastic first.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: St Ignatius on March 23, 2020, 06:42:38 PM
Just put in a big order for supplies for another 24X50 greenhouse... got the kids transplanting and starting new seeds like gang-busters right now! We live in cattle country and all the slaughter houses are empty of meat right now, might be living like rabbits here soon with what we can grow here in our garden.

I believe everybody should have a garden of some sort, it's been really relaxing, for me, with all the mayhem that's going on right now. :cowboy:
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on March 24, 2020, 10:22:25 AM
I am the neophyte suburban micro-farmer whom our friend Cera has been advising.  Thanks, Cera.

It is a very relaxing hobby and one that affords good, much-needed exercise, and time out in the fresh air and sun.  Digging a foot-deep sunken garden bed is more work than it sounds like it would be!  So far I have put out blackberry bushes, four tomato plants in a raised self-watering bed, and I have five more tomato plants (grown from seed, Rutgers variety) and seven cayenne pepper plants to put out.  I have 20 pounds of dry cat food that are sitting in my garage because our ever-vigilant HOA, that has never seen a functional, practical, enjoyable human activity they didn't want to stamp out, has put a fatwa on feeding feral animals.  I read online that it makes excellent fertilizer, so I am thinking of digging up another few square feet, laying plastic with holes cut in it (the soil is pure sand and water just percolates straight through it), laying the cat food, getting some more potting mix to cover it with, and planting more vegetables.  I even have four speaker boxes --- the speakers are very old and have died --- that I may retrofit into raised beds.

I feel like Oliver Douglas on Green Acres growing corn in flower pots on his Manhattan balcony.  Urban farming has come a long way since then.  I have nobody to make me "hotscakes", but on the other hand, I don't have a Mr Haney trying to mulct me of my pension.

A nice respite both from the theological wars and the posterior-over-teakettle that our society has become in these days of pestilence.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SoldierofCtK on March 24, 2020, 11:14:04 AM
One note about soil amendments, such as lime: Do a soil test first before adding anything. It's much cheaper than buying unnecessary or even damaging amendments. It's all about soil health and keeping the mycorrhizal fungi "happy."

There are some great YouTube channels to check out, too: EdibleAcres, Gary Pilarchik/The Ruster Garden, I AM ORGANIC GARDENING
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 24, 2020, 11:58:06 AM
Before he puts down plastic , he needs to test his garden to see if it needs lime.  It might not.  Before plastic, lime and fertilizer. 
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 24, 2020, 11:58:54 AM
One note about soil amendments, such as lime: Do a soil test first before adding anything. It's much cheaper than buying unnecessary or even damaging amendments. It's all about soil health and keeping the mycorrhizal fungi "happy."

There are some great YouTube channels to check out, too: EdibleAcres, Gary Pilarchik/The Ruster Garden, I AM ORGANIC GARDENING
You beat me to it. Lol
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Matthew on March 24, 2020, 01:22:25 PM
However much we've been prepping since 2006, I plan to "up our game" if the world gets through this Coronavirus epidemic and returns to normal.
Our main limitation is SPACE. 5 gallon buckets, TP, and canned goods take up space. And you can't just keep them in a shed (we've tried that). Too much heat and humidity in Texas. They only last a couple years that way. Another limitation is "eat what you store, store what you eat". For the parents at least, that would take a few freezers (for the meat and cheese) and a large garden. We're both on a low-carb diet for health reasons.

My family turns their nose up at almost everything that comes in a can -- kind of frustrating. I'm like, "Pick whatever you want THAT COMES IN A CAN and we'll stock up on that to be prepared." but they prefer fresh, homemade food. I guess we need to prep by getting a herd of cattle, a flock of chickens, and a huge garden and greenhouse?

But getting a garden in order -- that's doable. My latest technique is BACK TO EDEN gardening. Basically it's all about mulch. Between that and Permaculture, I'm learning some good techniques to grow stuff here in the virtual desert.  I finally got some local tree trimmers to keep dumping dump trucks of mulch on my property for free. I even sold my mid-range ($900) wood chipper, since I couldn't see myself using it anymore. Too busy now that I'm full-time employed. It takes hours to process a pile of branches, and you get very little mulch that way.

As an aside, I think we got 6 inches of rain total since Easter 2019. Seriously, we put in a front porch slab on our 2nd building last April, right in the path where runoff water wants to flow on our property. The slab on which the steps were built has a few pipes embedded in the concrete to let the runoff through the slab. I'm still waiting for a "good rain" to test it out! Amazing. Similar to this -- we have a huge man-made pond, which I pumped out last August to water our trees. The water had sat there for months after the rains filled it up Winter 2018/Spring 2019. It's still dry.

Only a few days ago we finally got a couple inches of rain. There's a BIT of water at the bottom of the pond now. Again, that's a serious drought! We're not even getting much rain during the wet "monsoon" season.

I also want to (finally) get a better chicken operation going. It has to be secure though; we have loose/feral dogs in the area. I've lost several flocks of chickens that way.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Matthew on March 24, 2020, 01:33:46 PM
One note about soil amendments, such as lime: Do a soil test first before adding anything. It's much cheaper than buying unnecessary or even damaging amendments. It's all about soil health and keeping the mycorrhizal fungi "happy."

There are some great YouTube channels to check out, too: EdibleAcres, Gary Pilarchik/The Ruster Garden, I AM ORGANIC GARDENING
That's one thing we don't need! Lime makes your soil more alkaline; we have extremely alkaline soil. So that's one thing we'll never be adding.
As an aside, adding compost is the magic solution to EVERY soil problem. It helps sandy soil retain moisture. It helps clay soil drain better. It helps all soil types by adding nutrients, minerals, and beneficial microorganisms. It's the magic bullet of gardening.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SoldierofCtK on March 24, 2020, 01:48:57 PM
As an aside, adding compost is the magic solution to EVERY soil problem.
One of the many "cans of worms" in gardening/farming, haha. Don't get me started on vermiculture...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZChqz9iiI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZChqz9iiI)
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Cera on March 24, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
Before he puts down plastic , he needs to test his garden to see if it needs lime.  It might not.  Before plastic, lime and fertilizer.
Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but when we used lime we were told it replaced any need for weed cloth or plastic. Is that wrong?
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Cera on March 24, 2020, 02:01:42 PM
I LOVE COMPOSTING! We have a barrel composter which we empty out prior to spring planting. For the coming few weeks I put fruit and veggie scraps into a blender with lots of water (nothing stringy like celery) and pour the goup into a little trench made by a hoe into the soil. It decomposes really quick that way. I do egg shells separately and put the egg grindings and coffee grounds around the tomatoes.

Let it Rot is the best book on composting.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 24, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
Cera,

No dumb question.  I had to ask my husband.

This from my husband:

Yes that’s wrong. lime Raises the pH which helps the fertilizer to work

Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 24, 2020, 02:46:55 PM
Tomatoes like desert. 
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on March 24, 2020, 02:53:45 PM
Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but when we used lime we were told it replaced any need for weed cloth or plastic. Is that wrong?
With our soil, you have to have some way to hold moisture.  It is basically nothing but sand, and water percolates straight through it.  The plants starve to death for lack of water, or if they do grow, their growth is severely stunted.  The soil is no good for growing anything, unless it would be peanuts or possibly potatoes.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on March 24, 2020, 02:57:42 PM
Tomatoes like desert.
Our land isn't "desert" --- trees, grass, and shrubs grow --- but my tomatoes didn't like it, last time I attempted gardening.  I used massive amounts of water, which almost all just kept on going down into the earth, and they were very meager and spindly.  The soil stinks for gardening.  Horrible stuff.  That's all there is to it.  You have to create what is basically one big buried planter with a bottom and no sides.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on March 24, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
I am the neophyte suburban micro-farmer whom our friend Cera has been advising.  Thanks, Cera.

It is a very relaxing hobby and one that affords good, much-needed exercise, and time out in the fresh air and sun.  Digging a foot-deep sunken garden bed is more work than it sounds like it would be!  So far I have put out blackberry bushes, four tomato plants in a raised self-watering bed, and I have five more tomato plants (grown from seed, Rutgers variety) and seven cayenne pepper plants to put out.  I have 20 pounds of dry cat food that are sitting in my garage because our ever-vigilant HOA, that has never seen a functional, practical, enjoyable human activity they didn't want to stamp out, has put a fatwa on feeding feral animals.  I read online that it makes excellent fertilizer, so I am thinking of digging up another few square feet, laying plastic with holes cut in it (the soil is pure sand and water just percolates straight through it), laying the cat food, getting some more potting mix to cover it with, and planting more vegetables.  I even have four speaker boxes --- the speakers are very old and have died --- that I may retrofit into raised beds.

I feel like Oliver Douglas on Green Acres growing corn in flower pots on his Manhattan balcony.  Urban farming has come a long way since then.  I have nobody to make me "hotscakes", but on the other hand, I don't have a Mr Haney trying to mulct me of my pension.

A nice respite both from the theological wars and the posterior-over-teakettle that our society has become in these days of pestilence.
That is cool
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Cera on March 24, 2020, 06:36:35 PM
Cera,

No dumb question.  I had to ask my husband.

This from my husband:

Yes that’s wrong. lime Raises the pH which helps the fertilizer to work
I have another question. What is the plastic used for?
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on March 24, 2020, 07:29:29 PM
I have another question. What is the plastic used for?
The plastic is underneath the layers of sand, lime, and potting mix, to keep water from completely percolating through these layers, and hitting soil that is pretty much pure sand.  The naturally occurring soil contains virtually no clay, silt, or humus.  Even when we have a torrential downpour, the ground is relatively dry within a few minutes.  I do have holes cut in the plastic (slits) to allow some percolation, so that the planting bed won't become one big bog.  I went out and mashed on the soil today, we've had rain all day, and it was very firm and solid.  Overall, the layers on top of the plastic are just shy of one foot deep.
Title: Sandy Soil/Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: AlligatorDicax on April 03, 2020, 02:00:04 AM

With our soil, you have to have some way to hold moisture.  It is basically nothing but sand, and water percolates straight through it.

Huh.  That's a good description of the soil here in Central Florida.  Is that where you live?   South Florida transitions to a veneer of sand over limestone (i.e., prehistoric reefs), whereas North Florida transitions to red clay.  I suppose you could be describing the U.S. Desert S.W., but I have no experience with such unpleasantly arid places.

I've found that oak leaves are a great raw material for mulch.  Either placed immediately on the top of the soil (or to top off plant-containers) to slow evaporation, or kept in bags for several months or more to decay into mulch.  My recollection is that a ca. 50-gal. bag of fresh leaves, after more-or-less full decay, yields 5--10 gal. of sand-ready mulch.

Early spring--not autumn--provides the greatest bounty of fallen oak leaves here.  Homeowners will rake them up, bag them, and set them by the curb for pick-up by local-gov't services.  Many of those same people will then drive off to Lowe's or Home Depot to spend money on, um, bagged mulch.  Duh!  The more sensible people will stop & grab bagged leaves on those curbs for their own gardens; clear bags are much preferred, so the prospective grabber can see whether whoever bagged them understands the concept of separating leaves from garbage.  Perhaps surprisingly, leaves are best when from scrubby lawns, not from lush green affluent neighborhoods.  Leaves from the latter might be operationally poisoned for potential gardening use, by application of products marketed as "weed-&-feed", which is a mixture of fertilizer and herbicide.  It's mostly the relatively affluent homeowners who are likely to spend money for that alleged convenience, either paying a lawn service to apply it, or doing it themselves.  When I was living in a small building surrounded by oaks, I had more than enough leaves for my needs, so I placed the excess in 10 or 12 big clear bags, waited until the weekend (so local-gov't services wouldn't collect them), and placed the bags on the curb, with a sign making my offer explicit: "Free leaves: take some; no ‘weed & feed’".  I watched the first drivers stopping and grabbing bags within the 1st hour; by the end of the weekend, all the bags were gone.

Lawn-mower clippings are worthwhile, too.  But if you take pleasure in mowing down weeds, you'd want to mulch those clippings for at least several months to kill the weed seeds.  I recommend removing weed plants manually; in this instance, your sandy soil can be an advantage, because sand prevents roots from getting much of a grip.  But beware that seeing obvious results might require a few seasons; I discarded them as garbage.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Nadir on April 03, 2020, 04:38:36 AM
Today I planted a passionfruit vine. The ground was already soaked and the worms were active, so I didn't even have to water it. Now I am hoping it will survive through our upcoming winter. I threw some rocket (rucola) seeds in a few weeks ago and they are up and we are eating the thinnings. It's a start.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: VO2 Max on April 03, 2020, 07:34:37 AM
Just wait, little goys and shiksas, the time will soon come when you'll need a permit to grow a garden in your own yard.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: VO2 Max on April 03, 2020, 07:48:42 AM
Quote
Just wait, little goys and shiksas, the time will soon come when you'll need a permit to grow a garden in your own yard.

And don't pay attention to the fact that a permit is when the government steals your rights away from you and then sells them back to you.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: josefamenendez on April 03, 2020, 08:28:16 AM
I like the Food Forest guy. He has a ton of videos and He makes it seem so simple. Every year I say I'm going to do a garden, but I'm always working and may and june pass without me doing it. I know how important a garden is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0E3Zk1BX_4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0E3Zk1BX_4)
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Meg on April 03, 2020, 08:37:35 AM
Tomatoes like desert.

Grapes too. Poor or sandy soil will cause them to put their energy into the fruit, rather than growing more leaves.  
Title: Re: Sandy Soil/Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on April 03, 2020, 10:23:24 AM
Huh.  That's a good description of the soil here in Central Florida.  Is that where you live?   South Florida transitions to a veneer of sand over limestone (i.e., prehistoric reefs), whereas North Florida transitions to red clay.  I suppose you could be describing the U.S. Desert S.W., but I have no experience with such unpleasantly arid places.
Southeastern United States, I'd rather not be any more specific than that.  The soil is very sandy.  I hadn't thought of the grapes.  I don't particularly care for grapes --- I don't hate them, they're just not something I buy.  I much prefer blackberries and blueberries, I like intensely flavored, iron-rich fruit.  Good with ice cream or to make cobblers.

It's too soon to tell about the in-ground "sunken raised bed" --- the peppers aren't all that vigorous, the tomatoes are doing a little bit better.  The potting soil, lime, and fertilizer in my raised bed box are acting like crack for the four tomato plants I have in the bed.  They are getting huge.  The sunken in-ground "bed" doesn't get all the sun I'd like --- part of the day it is within the shadow of the house and the shadow of a red maple tree (I was limited as to where I could put it), and I move the raised bed on a flat dolly, to get sun throughout the day.  I retrofitted old speaker boxes (took out the speakers and discarded them), shot .22 pointed air rifle rounds through the bottoms to provide drainage (easier than using a power drill), and the peppers are flourishing, they are positioned to get sun pretty much all day.
Title: Hot Peppers/Re: Sandy Soil/Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: AlligatorDicax on April 03, 2020, 02:00:02 PM

Southeastern United States, I'd rather not be any more specific than that.

Ah!  The secretive network, rarely mentioned even in whispers, that protects ecclesiastical whistle-blowers from the U.S. C."C."B. and the Vatican Mafiosi [†].  Please convey my best wishes to Abp. Vigano when you next see him.

I have seen what seemed to be a red maple growing as far south as Gainesville (Fla.), but maybe it escaped from an on-campus arboretum.  I suppose the S.E.-U.S. coastal plain could be predominately sandy, perhaps in a narrowing coastal strip,northward to at least the mouth of the Chesapeake.  Alas, in the Virginia suburbs of D.C., red clay seemed to dominate unimproved ground, and around the Beltway (I-495) in the Maryland suburbs, probably more of the same: Serious rainstorms caused impassable slow-draining flooding in road underpasses (i.e., those excavated to cross otherwise intersecting roads constructed at the average surface level).


Digging a foot-deep sunken garden bed is more work than it sounds like it would be!

I have a hazy recollection of digging in 2 stages:
1. Using a trenching shovel along the inside border, which significantly reduces the initial work, as measurable in the weight of sand that needs to be lifted & moved to reach the intended depth; then
2. using an ordinary flat-bottomed(-blade) shovel--or maybe 'twas a short-handled shovel on my knees--to scoop out the middle.


So far I have put out blackberry bushes, four tomato plants in a raised self-watering bed, and I have five more tomato plants (grown from seed, Rutgers variety) and seven cayenne pepper plants to put out. [....] I even have four speaker boxes---the speakers are very old and have died---that I may retrofit into raised beds.

Some cayenne pepper varieties are bred to be miniatures (e.g., for containers in bright kitchen windows).  That's undesirable for me, because they waste precious gardening area.  I prefer growing hot peppers that have a tall & thin (growth) habit.


It's too soon to tell about the in-ground "sunken raised bed"---the peppers aren't all that vigorous, the tomatoes are doing a little bit better. [....]  The sunken in-ground "bed" doesn't get all the sun I'd like---part of the day it is within the shadow of the house and the shadow of a red maple tree [...], and I move the raised bed on a flat dolly, to get sun throughout the day.

I confess confusion about what you mean by "sunken raised bed", and a mov[able] "raised bed"; such things strike me as nonsensical, and seemed not to be part of your original description [*].


The potting soil, lime, and fertilizer in my raised bed box are acting like crack for the four tomato plants I have in the bed.  They are getting huge. [....]  I retrofitted old speaker boxes [...], shot .22 pointed air rifle rounds through the bottoms to provide drainage [...], and the peppers are flourishing, they are positioned to get sun pretty much all day.

Altho' books written about growing hot peppers claim that sun "all day" is best, they're writing from experimentation and other experience in the arid climate of the Desert S.W. (notably New Mexico State U.'s experiment station in Los Cruces).   My experience is contrary: Shade can be your hot peppers' friend, limiting them to only a half day of sun is best in Florida, preferably sunrise to noon, not noon to sunset.  Habaneros under open sky seem especially unable to tolerate a full day of sun outdoors after the onset of the rainy season.  It's frustrating, because every year I tried to grow them that way, they'd looked quite happy until then.  Unless they're sheltered somehow from direct rainfall, e.g., under the eaves (i.e., of a roof), or on a roofed patio or porch.  Which pretty much limits them to being grown in containers, for which ca. 5 gal. capacity or more per plant would probably be a consensus recommendation.  In fact, I've had my greatest success with peppers, notably tabasco, in raised beds [#] or separate containers.  Their guaranteed drainage during the rainy season might've been the major reason for their superiority over ground-level beds.  I use approx. the same mulch, sand, and manure mix (1/3:1/3:1/3, as guesstimated) for all 3 configurations.

I assume that being in the Solanaceae (sp.?) family with peppers, tomatoes ought to benefit from much the same treatment.  But the 1 time I tried to grow a few, in similar-sized containers, insects pounced in startling numbers, and killed them before I could harvest even a handful of the sadly undersized tomatoes.  Rather than investigate & apply serious pesticides, I dumped them (to a garbage bin) to save my peppers from becoming the next victims.

Beware that at least in Florida, food-crop rotation can be important, because of our vigorous nematodes; they're also a reason for favoring container gardening.

Oh!  I almost forgot: I typically start with seedlings bought when ca. 6 in. tall, and avoid the ones prematurely forced into flower or fruiting (as done for marketing to naïve gardeners); I want the plants' energies to be focused on vegetative growth.  My exception is Florida-history cult-favorite datil peppers, which seem not to be available otherwise, and buyers need to be wary of being sold deliberate hybrids (e.g., "Super Datil") instead of the pure cultivar.  But after starting them from seed, I hate how quickly I run out of loving homes to accept the healthy seedlings for which I regrettably have no more room.

-------
Note †: Only if a reader were to believe that the rumored Mafia really exists.

Note *:  Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 10:22:25 (linked in top quote, above).

Note #: Raised ca. 10 in. high, defined as 1 concrete block + 1 brick high.  I've never tried the cut-in-half wood barrels, whose capacity is much more than 5 gal.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on April 03, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote
I confess confusion about what you mean by "sunken raised bed", and a mov[able] "raised bed"; such things strike me as nonsensical, and seemed not to be part of your original description [*].
"Sunken raised bed" --- probably not the best way to describe it.  A trench dug in the ground, about 9" deep, 3' wide and 6' long.  My son commented that it looked like I'd dug a shallow grave!  I lined the bottom of the trench with plastic scavenged from bags of potting soil, logo side down, white unprinted side up, slits cut in the plastic before I laid it, to allow some water to percolate through and go on down into the sand, yet retaining maybe 80% of the water.  Then I put down layers of sand, potting soil, lime, more potting soil, and fertilizer --- kind of like a thin layered cake --- with potting soil, and then the native sandy soil, on top.  So it's like a huge planter whose bottom is thin plastic baggage and whose sides are bare sandy soil.

"Movable raised bed" --- Patio Pickers brand, basically the same thing, if not the same thing, as this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EMSCO-GROUP-20-in-W-x-24-in-L-x-10-in-H-Earth-Brown-Resin-Raised-Garden-Bed/3341626

(https://www.lowes.com/pd/EMSCO-GROUP-20-in-W-x-24-in-L-x-10-in-H-Earth-Brown-Resin-Raised-Garden-Bed/3341626#)

I did not bother with putting the plastic sheet (included) over the soil.  It is free to the air.  They recommend no more than three tomato plants --- I took a walk on the wild side, and planted four.
Title: Re: Hot Peppers/Re: Sandy Soil/Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on April 03, 2020, 02:36:06 PM
I confess confusion about what you mean by "sunken raised bed", and a mov[able] "raised bed"; such things strike me as nonsensical, and seemed not to be part of your original description [*].
"Sunken raised bed" --- probably not the best way to describe it.  A trench dug in the ground, about 9" deep, 3' wide and 6' long.  My son commented that it looked like I'd dug a shallow grave!  I lined the bottom of the trench with plastic scavenged from bags of potting soil, logo side down, white unprinted side up, slits cut in the plastic before I laid it, to allow some water to percolate through and go on down into the sand, yet retaining maybe 80% of the water.  Then I put down layers of sand, potting soil, lime, more potting soil, and fertilizer --- kind of like a thin layered cake --- with potting soil, and then the native sandy soil, on top.  So it's like a huge planter whose bottom is thin plastic baggage and whose sides are bare sandy soil.

"Movable raised bed" --- Patio Pickers brand, basically the same thing, if not the same thing, as this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/EMSCO-GROUP-20-in-W-x-24-in-L-x-10-in-H-Earth-Brown-Resin-Raised-Garden-Bed/3341626

(https://www.lowes.com/pd/EMSCO-GROUP-20-in-W-x-24-in-L-x-10-in-H-Earth-Brown-Resin-Raised-Garden-Bed/3341626#)

I did not bother with putting the plastic sheet (included) over the soil.  It is free to the air.  They recommend no more than three tomato plants --- I took a walk on the wild side, and planted four.



Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Cera on April 03, 2020, 03:32:12 PM
Our land isn't "desert" --- trees, grass, and shrubs grow --- but my tomatoes didn't like it, last time I attempted gardening.  I used massive amounts of water, which almost all just kept on going down into the earth, and they were very meager and spindly.  The soil stinks for gardening.  Horrible stuff.  That's all there is to it.  You have to create what is basically one big buried planter with a bottom and no sides.
Tomatoes can be grown in pots, large pots for slicing tomatoes and some cherry tomatoes can takes smaller pots. That way you control the soil.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Matthew on April 03, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Google Back-to-Eden gardening. The secret weapon for crappy soil of any kind: MULCH and lots of it!

Find a way to get free mulch. There is a service "Chipdrop" which will drop off a load FREE as long as you live in one of their popular areas. I've been on the list for a year and still no mulch from them. However, a few tree-trimming contractors working with a local electric company have dropped off about 15 dump truck loads of mulch for me, so I'm set now. I even sold my mid-level ($1000) chipper since I don't have time to use it anymore anyhow.

Even a decent personal wood chipper can't compete with dump truck loads of mulch.

If I had it do over again (i.e., if I woke up tomorrow and found myself 24 years old and living in the city again), I would have made a SMALLER garden completely covered with plenty of hand-made (break a bunch of sticks by hand) and/or bags of mulch from the store (4 for $10 at a big box stores like Lowe's on sale). Mulch really is the holy grail of gardening. I would also bury larger sticks and logs in the ground for hugelkultur. Permaculture is also "where it's at" but it's not distinct from using mulch -- more like using mulch is PART of the broader technique called Permaculture.

I tested my first Back to Eden garden -- the shovel goes down into the ground like it's made of soft ice cream. This was hard clay soil, very poor, with no organic matter and wouldn't grow anything before. After just ONE YEAR not only is there a layer of rich compost, but even the original soil has been redeemed/broken down into usable soil!

Can't wait to see what I'll be able to do with this new garden --
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Matthew on April 03, 2020, 03:45:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rPPUmStKQ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rPPUmStKQ4)
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: SimpleMan on April 03, 2020, 06:08:53 PM
Google Back-to-Eden gardening. The secret weapon for crappy soil of any kind: MULCH and lots of it!

Find a way to get free mulch. There is a service "Chipdrop" which will drop off a load FREE as long as you live in one of their popular areas. I've been on the list for a year and still no mulch from them. However, a few tree-trimming contractors working with a local electric company have dropped off about 15 dump truck loads of mulch for me, so I'm set now. I even sold my mid-level ($1000) chipper since I don't have time to use it anymore anyhow.

Even a decent personal wood chipper can't compete with dump truck loads of mulch.

If I had it do over again (i.e., if I woke up tomorrow and found myself 24 years old and living in the city again), I would have made a SMALLER garden completely covered with plenty of hand-made (break a bunch of sticks by hand) and/or bags of mulch from the store (4 for $10 at a big box stores like Lowe's on sale). Mulch really is the holy grail of gardening. I would also bury larger sticks and logs in the ground for hugelkultur. Permaculture is also "where it's at" but it's not distinct from using mulch -- more like using mulch is PART of the broader technique called Permaculture.

I tested my first Back to Eden garden -- the shovel goes down into the ground like it's made of soft ice cream. This was hard clay soil, very poor, with no organic matter and wouldn't grow anything before. After just ONE YEAR not only is there a layer of rich compost, but even the original soil has been redeemed/broken down into usable soil!

Can't wait to see what I'll be able to do with this new garden --
All very good and potentially useful information.  I had never heard of Huegelkultur before.  Makes sense.  My yard is so small as to border on being a joke.  Many people have larger driveways.  These are zero-lot-line patio homes with the left wall being plain brick, no windows --- maximum privacy in minimum space.  Many of my neighbors have small in-ground pools and have basically sacrificed their entire yard to them.  I wouldn't do something like that.  I want a yard, no matter how small.  I would get major blowback from my family if I would dig up the whole yard for fruit and vegetable gardening --- they like a pretty lawn to look at.  They squawked enough about the "shallow grave" I made.  So I do what I can.  I am teaching myself basic gardening and expect to learn from my mistakes --- and I will make mistakes --- as well as things I can't do anything about, such as blight, temperature extremes, and so on.
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: josefamenendez on April 03, 2020, 07:14:52 PM
Seems simple for small spaces


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LH6-w57Slw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LH6-w57Slw)
Title: Re: Gardening seems like a great idea right now
Post by: Shrewd Operator on April 03, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
https://youtu.be/E2nUB_TFL0U

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