Hi everyone!

I've been debating a modernist who believes in evolution, claims Noah's Ark "is fake", and believes Genesis is allegorical. So far, I've shown that the Early Church Fathers did not hold Genesis to be allegorical, which he has refused to address. I haven't study this particular area (Galileo) before so, I'm hoping some members here who have can help me out.

Now, he has made a claim that:

"when Galileo discovered Jupiter's moons and realized the Earth was round,  the Church told him that was not the case. He showed them that Jupiter was a sphere through his telescope, and they said it was witchcraft."

Is anyone familiar with this claim?

Also, he has also stated:

"The Church fought heliocentrism because they believed the Bible said it was not true. The Church issued an edict to Galileo that stated the sun was not stationary, but revolved around the earth:

http://astro.wcupa.edu/mgagne/ess362...html#conreport

Again, this took me about 10 minutes to find on the internet.

"Assessment made at the Holy Office, Rome, Wednesday, 24 February 1616, in the presence of the Father Theologians signed below.

Proposition to be assessed:
(1) The sun is the center of the world and completely devoid of local motion.
Assessement: All said that this proposition is foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts many places the sense of Holy Scripture, according to the literal meaning of the words and according to the common interpretation and understanding of the Holy Fathers and the doctors of theology.
(2) The earth is not the center of the world, nor motionless, but it moves as a whole and also with diurnal motion. Assessment: All said that this proposition receives the same judgement in philosophy and that in regard to theological truth it is at least errouneous in faith."

One can still believe in God and realize that radiocarbon dating is real, Noah's Ark is a fake, and that the Church didn't believe in a heliocentric universe because the Bible said so.

I'm Catholic, and the Church has no problems with these beliefs. The Church funds a great deal of astronomical and scientific research."

Is anyone here familiar with these claims and knows how to refute them?

Thanks!

I love debating, but you are debating from a very tight spot.  How is the burden of proof established ? I can only see you shifting the burden of proof on him and allowing yourself some breathing room to see your beliefs respected.

The debate began when I posted a link to an article about the Vatican's recent plans to "celebrate Darwin", with him stating that "the early church always taught Genesis was allegorical" and that "there is ample proof for this". I asked him to cite this "ample proof" which he wouldn't do. I then cited ScriptureCatholic.com's page on evolution which has many quotes from the Early Church Fathers on Genesis as literal history, which again he refused to address.

But, I think this current subject of Galileo, is his example of how the Church can be wrong.

I also made a post over at Stormfront about 5 mos ago entitled Copernicus which basically contains the same info in the links above. Ciao

Just because the Sun is in motion does not necessarily mean that it is revolving around Earth; nowhere in the Bible does it say that specifically.