Author Topic: FSSP Priest Complains About Trad Behavior (Read 12413 times)

Augstine Baker · « **on:** March 22, 2012, 05:13:23 PM »

From some guy at FE:

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Fr Chad Ripperger FSSP presents a blunt and honest indictment of some of the serious problems, at least in his opinion, in the traditional Catholic movement. Most of the problems he mentions are ones which I can relate to myself or have observed around me. I'd be really interested to hear what people on this forum think of it.

http://www.sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/Tradition/Sermon10.mp3

Me:

Generally, criticisms on fisheaters where this was found, from Gerard and Ggreg are accurate.

Traditionalism isn't a movement. Trads don't have secret knowledge. If anyone relies on secret knowledge it's Fr. Ripperger who somehow knows that NO Catholics are less sinful than Catholics.

He also beats on that old dead horse about how Trads are supposed to be meaner than "normal" people.

Actually, to generalize, I have found that "Trads" are generally cheerful and friendly while NOs are generally mean-spirited and resentful whenever they see Catholics practicing the Catholicism as Traditionalists do.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:19:14 PM »

Predictably, Crox Clamatojuice had this disparaging tub of excrement to douse on people:

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Father nailed it. "Trads, in my experience, tend to drive away more than they attract, very often." [BS, there's no empirical justification this way or any way that you could prove it. You're just repeating a bromide, bcz that's what you do...] Yes, definitely. The angry snarking and ranting, [and this isn't snarking?] the lack of respect for the Holy Father, the pride, the apparent joy that some have at the idea of others burning in Hell because (some trads think) they're not aware of what the trad knows (by the grace of God!), all the while forgetting that it is Christ Who judges -- and that HE does so while knowing the hearts of men, their levels of knowledge and culpability, extentuating circuмstances that shape what they know, don't know, think, believe, and how they act [Right back atcha] -- all things we can't know... It's so incredibly sad. It harms souls, and harming souls hurts Christ. It keeps people away from Him, which undermines the very purpose of Creation and the Sacrifice He made to redeem it.

On a personal level, I hate to see examples on this forum of the things Father talked about because it undermines the whole purpose of the site.[You undermine the cause of Christ because you repeat the distortions and vicarious doubts conceived to discredit the practice of true religion] And most of the annoying stuff comes down to pride, anger, and/or a lack of prudence. I hope we all keep remembering that thousands [dozens, perhaps] of people read our posts here, many of them people just becoming interested in Catholicism or in the trad "movement" in particular. I pray that what they see here makes them want to come to Christ's Church, not become totally turned-off...
Logged

Turnoffs are the concerns of hippies and narcissistic boomers, aren't they?

s2srea · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:34:38 PM »

I didn't hear the entire sermon, but I think, in regards to being 'mean', he's generally right. Trads do have a reputation for being mean. I was speaking to a friend about this recently. His assessment, which I though was well put, was that Trads tend to focus on the some virtues over others; because of the very predicament we're in, we are forced into focus on Faith so much , for example, that we can tend to forget about Charity. He put it much better, but I think you get the gist of it.

I agree. Lots of trads, can be downright mean. I don't find that in the NO's I come accross. They can be retarded and make me mad by their downright ignorance, willful or not, but they are generally charitable and approachable. I don't find that as common among trads; when I do, I try to make friends- fast! Its nice to meet normal nice people, who I can still relate to on a Traditional level. Anyways, this has been my experience.

EDIT: I would like to end with the fact that though I have never posted there, based on my observations and research, you would find me far removed from the FE type. Lastly, the friend I mentioned above, has no patience for the FE people either, and is a Sedevecantist. I actually have a second sedevecantist friend, who I've also spoken to about this topic, and we are in complete harmony.

Jitpring · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:35:59 PM »

Unfortunately, Fr. Ripperger's words there aren't without truth. Satan wants discouragement and eventually despair. One way of achieving this is to make one focus on the rot - the rot outside of himself rather than within himself.

While rejecting any notion that Conciliarists are purer than traditionalists, the connection he makes between pride and impurity is sound. See this from Fr. Cajetan Mary da Bergamo's great Humility of Heart:

We read of many who, after being renowned for their holiness, fervent in the exercise of prayer, great penances and signal virtues, and who after being favored by God with the gifts of ecstasy, revelations and miracles, have nevertheless fallen into the hideous vice of impurity at the slightest approach of temptation. And when I consider it, I find that there is no sin that degrades the soul so much as this impure sin of the senses, because the soul, from being reasoning and spiritual, like the Angels, becomes thereby carnal, sensual and like brute beasts "who have no understanding." [Ps. xxxi, 9]

I am constrained to adore with fear the supreme judgments of God and also for my own warning to learn that pride was the reason of so great a fall; therefore we should all exclaim with the prophet, "And being exalted I have been humbled and troubled," [Ps. lxxxvii] and say to ourselves the words which he said to Lucifer after he had "meditated in his heart: 'I will ascend' "-----"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer." [Isa. xiv]

The soul is humbled according to the measure of its self-exaltation, and great must have been the pride which was followed by such a tremendous and abominable humiliation. Ah, how much more precious is one degree of humility in comparison with a thousand revelations or ecstasies! Of what use is it, says St. Augustine, to possess unsullied purity and chastity and virginity if pride dominates the heart? "Of what avail is continence to him who is dominated by pride?" [Serm. de Verb. Dom.]

It is a wise and just disposition of God to permit the fall of the proud into every sin and especially into that of wantonness, as being the most degrading, so that by so great a fall he should be ashamed, humbled and cured of his pride. O St. Thomas, how well hast thou said: "He who is fettered by pride and does not know it, falls into the sin of impurity which is manifestly of itself disgraceful, that through this sin he may rise humiliated from his confession." [22, qu. clxi, art. 6, ad 3] From this, the Saint continues, is shown the gravity of the sin of pride; and as a doctor often permits his patient to suffer from a minor ill so as to liberate him from a greater, so God permits the soul to fall into the sin of the senses, so that it may be cured of the vice of pride.

To whatever sublime height of sanctity we may have attained, a fall is always to be feared. For, as says St. Augustine, there is no holiness that cannot be lost through pride alone: "If there be holiness in you, fear lest you may lose it. How? Through pride." [Serm. 13 de Verb. Dom.]

Jitpring · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:41:44 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I didn't hear the entire sermon, but I think, in regards to being 'mean', he's generally right. Trads do have a reputation for being mean. I was speaking to a friend about this recently. His assessment, which I though was well put, was that Trads tend to focus on the some virtues over others; because of the very predicament we're in, we are forced into focus on Faith so much , for example, that we can tend to forget about Charity. He put it much better, but I think you get the gist of it.

I agree. Lots of trads, can be downright mean. I don't find that in the NO's I come accross. They can be retarded and make me mad by their downright ignorance, willful or not, but they are generally charitable and approachable. I don't find that as common among trads; when I do, I try to make friends- fast! Its nice to meet normal nice people, who I can still relate to on a Traditional level. Anyways, this has been my experience.

Additionally, the relation between Conciliarists and traditionalists can be likened to that between liberals and (genuine) conservatives. The former tend to focus on intentions while the latter focus on results.

The liberal/Conciliarist: "They meant well at Vatican II."

The (genuine) conservative/traditionalist: "But look at the poisonous fruits of Vatican II."

The liberal/Conciliarist: "But they meant well."

And so on. Of course this doesn't entirely hold up, as trads also look to the modernist intentions of the V2 vandals. But I think there's some truth in the comparison.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:48:19 PM »

Whatever can be gratuitously affirmed can also be gratuitously denied.

NOs are listless and zombielike, attired in sweats or what have you, schlepping their way out of church and back wherever their lair is. If you don't share their zombielike moral theology or demeanor, or get in their way, you could find yourself bowled over.

People have been saying that "Trads" are unfriendly for years, but why is that? Is it because they express Catholic truths and find hard hearts?

The Bishop of Chur, in Switzerland, has recently written a Lenten Lettr to be read in his Diocese that those couples who are married and divorced are not to present themselves for Communion.

Guess what he's being called? He's being called all kinds of mean names not only by the Austrian media, which you'd expect, but by his own priests, actually, that's sadly to be expected as well.
He's also being accused of being "mean".

Caraffa · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:50:03 PM »

If anything, I think the one of the top problems in Traditional Catholic parishes and circles, at least post-MP but probably even before, is the lack of Church discipline. Pop-Traditionalism doesn't help either.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:52:41 PM »

There are plenty of nice trads out there. The problem is that these trad groups form little social islands, and the people who want to be on top behave in nasty ways. I've heard from so many people about this that I really can't doubt it's true. Certainly here it's true.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:53:33 PM »

The worst among the NOs are the neo-cons, who are as heartless and ruthless in their glib criticisms of Traditional Catholics as you'd expect from the most ill-willed of atheists.

I'd cite Karl Keating, Mark Shea, Jimmy Fakin and a host of others who regularly engage in mean spirited attacks on real Catholics with an abandon you'd never see reserved for the most black hearted atheist.

And coincidentally, they're the first to cry fowl at the alleged meanness and mental illness of real Catholics.

Oh, and lest I forget, the forgetable "Wanderer" is horrible in that respect.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:54:34 PM »

Consider s2rea's story about the anglos walking out of church during a Spanish Language Sermon.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:57:31 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Consider s2rea's story about the anglos walking out of church during a Spanish Language Sermon.

Why?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:58:33 PM »

comments from Maizar:

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Not all SSPX parishes are like the one you describe, but yes, there are some Churches where the only reason I have gone is because there are valid sacraments. Otherwise I shudder at the thought of who I might end up meeting there.

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. . . .The problem the SSPX suffers from, in many parishes, is that they are dysfunctional because there is an over-representation of people with extreme personalities and an incomplete understanding of the Faith. It's tough for the priests, and easy for a less able priest to do a bad job of things. This is because we are talking about oases of the Faith in a spiritual wasteland. This is not how Catholicism is meant to be. Churches are meant to be attended by locals (all the locals), who are a community not merely on Sundays or at school, but throughout public life. And in the past these communities were not bombarded 24/7 by mass media which is specifically geared to undermine them.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2012, 06:00:04 PM »

Quote from: Augstine Baker

Quote from: Telesphorus
Consider s2rea's story about the anglos walking out of church during a Spanish Language Sermon.

Why?

It's over the top behavior. The laity throwing their weight around in an uncharitable way. Walking out of church because some language in Spanish is outrageous. That doesn't mean you have to approve of Spanish being spoken in an English language church - just that you don't walk out of church because of it.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2012, 06:00:18 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I didn't hear the entire sermon, but I think, in regards to being 'mean', he's generally right. Trads do have a reputation for being mean. I was speaking to a friend about this recently. His assessment, which I though was well put, was that Trads tend to focus on the some virtues over others; because of the very predicament we're in, we are forced into focus on Faith so much , for example, that we can tend to forget about Charity. He put it much better, but I think you get the gist of it.

I agree. Lots of trads, can be downright mean. I don't find that in the NO's I come accross. They can be retarded and make me mad by their downright ignorance, willful or not, but they are generally charitable and approachable. I don't find that as common among trads; when I do, I try to make friends- fast! Its nice to meet normal nice people, who I can still relate to on a Traditional level. Anyways, this has been my experience.

Doesn't your own prsonal experience in this respect not refute Fathher Ripperger's assertion? I think it does.

That's been my experience of Traditioonalists, for the most part...

Quote

EDIT: I would like to end with the fact that though I have never posted there, based on my observations and research, you would find me far removed from the FE type. Lastly, the friend I mentioned above, has no patience for the FE people either, and is a Sedevecantist. I actually have a second sedevecantist friend, who I've also spoken to about this topic, and we are in complete harmony.

Augstine Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2012, 06:01:43 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Augstine Baker
Quote from: Telesphorus
Consider s2rea's story about the anglos walking out of church during a Spanish Language Sermon.

Why?

It's over the top behavior. The laity throwing their weight around in an uncharitable way. Walking out of church because some language in Spanish is outrageous. That doesn't mean you have to approve of Spanish being spoken in an English language church - just that you don't walk out of church because of it.

I see worse things than that at almost every single NO service I've ever been to.