Author Topic: Friend left Catholic Church  (Read 6125 times)

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Offline jhfromsf68

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Friend left Catholic Church
« on: July 01, 2010, 11:55:55 PM »
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  • Hello forum,

     Recently my only traditional Catholic friend has left to Catholic Church  to become a Pentacostal. I really don't know how to deal with this, I'm trying to be nice and understanding and respect his decision on a personal level but on the other hand I realize what he has done is not very comendable, leaving the true church of Christ for a Protestant sect.

    I recently got together with him for dinner and he brought up all the anti catholic protestant arguements that I've heard before. I wont go into detail, because I'm sure you guys have heard them too.

    I really don't know what's going on with him inside his head, It's hard for me to understand how someone can go from attending mass at a sspx chapel and even going on ignation retreats too becoming a tongue talking pentacostal.

    Although I promised to get together , I've been avoiding him and I'm sure he thinks I'm some kind of flake now. I just don't want my own faith disturebed by listening to his ditribes against the Catholic Church.

    Has anyone here been though a situation like this and how did you handle it?

    God bless
    James

    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 12:53:04 AM »
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  • Going to an SSPX chapel doesn't necessarily mean the person has an iron grip on DOCTRINE, and that's the killer. Why do so many people loose their faith period? Often, it's because (or the excuse they have anyway is because) they had some question or problem with the faith, based on a misunderstanding or ignorance, that they didn't or couldn't clear up. Though the problem was with their understanding of the Faith and not the Faith itself, they nevertheless go flying out of the door (of the Church), firmly convinced it was all untrue.

    Now realistically, most people quit the faith for agnosticism or atheism, and not really because they had an intellectual misunderstanding, but because they didn't want the burden of having to behave themselves, but... that's another story. Even if you take their word for it, though, the fact is when you present the truth to them in a way they can understand it, they often still just blow it off, because whether they want to be right, or whether they want to be "free" (of any moral restraint), the truth you can tell them is something they often simply do not want.

    It's very difficult to reason with someone who has made up their minds against the truth. How do you explain truth to someone who has decided to hate it?

    But it is also very difficult to continue to spend time with someone who becomes a danger to your own faith. If it comes to that, you cannot willingly endanger your faith. If the person continues to try to "debunk" your Faith, you may need to stay away from them. But that's up to you. I guess you should try to get the information to debunk their errors into their hands and heads, but... there comes a point when you're fighting in vain, and just drowning in their poison. (They're spewing garbage at you, while dismissing everything you say.)

    Use prudence. Do what you can for the person, but if it comes to being a danger to your own faith, you have to protect your own faith first. We are not supposed to expose ourselves to unnecessary dangers on purpose, because we are only human, and since all of us are ignorant about SOME things, and subject to our own faults and flaws, all of us can be fooled or tricked at some point, if we just take in enough of the lies to twist our vision. All of us are capable of falling into error of some kind or other, under certain circumstances, simply because we are human and fallible.

    The biggest mistake we can make is thinking "my faith is too strong to loose to protestantism". If you put yourself in the poison, you can't expect it won't effect you sooner or later. It's happened to Catholics before, and I'm sure it will keep happening, wherever we Catholics think too much of our own strength. Don't make that mistake!

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    "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness..."


    If the person has a good will to know the truth, you can find information to refute what they say with the truth. But if they have their minds made up, and they are just blowing you off, and bent on them "being right", then you are probably just wasting your time, and just exposing yourself to unnecessary danger of hearing the slimy lies of protestantism repeated to you again and again.
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi


    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 07:00:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: jhfromsf68
    I'm trying to be nice and understanding and respect his decision on a personal level...


    Why would you give any respect to someone who has rejected the known truth and rejected Christ?

    Be nice to him, but don't give him any respect for the decision.  Don't avoid him either.  But reject his blasphemies against Christ.  He cannot return to the Church unless he wants to.  You may be the vehicle that helps him back, but don't let him defend his position to you.  His position is indefensible.

    Offline Matto

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    « Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010, 08:25:37 AM »
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  • Quote
    I recently got together with him for dinner and he brought up all the anti catholic protestant arguments that I've heard before. I wont go into detail, because I'm sure you guys have heard them too.

    Be very careful. You cannot be friends with someone who is constantly trying to murder your soul. You may try to convert him back to the faith, but he is just as likely to convert you to his sect or at least shake your faith. He is no longer your friend, as he became your enemy when he became an enemy of Christ.
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    I'm trying to be nice and understanding and respect his decision on a personal level

    Do not be nice to Heretics. Do not respesct his decision to become a heretic any more than you would respect the decision of a ѕυιcιdє to murder himself. You cannot respect sin, you have to hate sin.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010, 09:40:25 AM »
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  • There can be no respect for such a destructive decision, James.

    I can't offer any suggestions for debate; but on a practical level, you most certainly do not want that person praying in "tongues" for you.

    I hope you will consider us your new traditional Catholic friends, and I am so sorry you have lost your old friend.


    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010, 09:52:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: jhfromsf68
    It's hard for me to understand how someone can go from attending mass at a sspx chapel and even going on ignation retreats too becoming a tongue talking pentacostal.


    I can-first off, welcome to CI, please go to general sectio nand intro yourself if not already done so..

    some people get to wrapped up in what is wrong, they do not balance with what is right or what can be done to make things right they go off deep ends....seen it happen many times, they get madly searching and reading, get angrier and angrier and then start to drift too much...they start getting fed up and negative on everything...before too long, they say "why the hell bother" and either become home aloners on the couch, indifferent (most) or start to drift to Prot sects where at least some actively stand up for right morals and are willingly to fight something...

    My dad tells a story of a young 30-something he works with, that wa raised Catholic, now attends Nazarene sect....she likes nazarenes she said as they are ραƚɾισtic-they hear sermons on ραƚɾισtism and america, have USA flags front and center on the stage and do attack homos, abortion,etc...

    some have used abuse to either make that final break w/Church and many have gone Prot (as if there is no homos, pedophiles and adulterers there amongst their leaders! know there is from a Prot minister friend of mine..another friend went for 1 1/2 yrs to a Baptist seminary, stated a lot of sex and porno going on there)

    The Ross stages of dying can be used as a template for the Church today
    -disbelief
    -anger
    -resentment

    etc, anyone want to construct it? have not the time....you get the picture....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010, 10:05:29 AM »
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  • I know exactly how you feel.  Last night I attended a rosary for a friend who passed this week.  We both are members of a Traditional Catholic SV group.  A few years ago 15 of our nuns left our SV group, not to a SSPX or another traditional church but to novus ordo.  The person who passed, had a daughter that was one of these nuns that left.  She invited all her friends (the other 14 nuns) to the rosary.  It was very difficult to watch these nuns, praying the rosary with us.  Although they had a right to do so.  I also know with my inteligence that it was good for them to be there.  Yet at the same time my emotions had a difficult time seeing them.

    Your friend, although you may not have realized it, no doubt had issues with some belief that he just could not handle.  He won't admit this to you because he already made up  his mind and doesn't want to hear your advice.  

    After awhile he just gave up and rationalized that the SSPX was wrong.  If he left God then he is not worth keeping.  

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #7 on: July 02, 2010, 10:13:59 AM »
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  • Myrna, is there a organized push against these nuns? or just "they left, we are angry"??

    are there some agitating to shun them or mis-treat them?

    are they considered "unPersons"??

    yes-I am really enquiring, not trying to stir the pot....

    what about the deceased persons' daughter, you mentioned the other 14, but not her I beleive....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #8 on: July 02, 2010, 10:56:30 AM »
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  • I would guess it most often happens because of pharisaism that leaves a parishioner embittered.

    You don't need to "respect" the "decision" either.

    Offline Alexandria

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    « Reply #9 on: July 02, 2010, 12:29:34 PM »
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  • This "respecting" of people who make horrendous decisions is pure modern newspeak garbage.  Sounds like the Catholic Answers crowd..."I fully respect your right to dress like a woman even though you are a man."

    If your friend was, as you claim, a traditional catholic (whatever that means anymore - did he just prefer the old mass?  That doesn't make someone a traditional catholic), what he has done is called apostasy..  He has rejected the one, true Faith for a lie.

    St. John the Evangelist (the "little children, love one another" apostle) ran out of a bath-house rather than be under the same roof with a known heretic.  

    And I think it was St. Polycarp that called Simon Magus the "first born of satan."

    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #10 on: July 02, 2010, 12:36:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    This "respecting" of people who make horrendous decisions is pure modern newspeak garbage.  Sounds like the Catholic Answers crowd..."I fully respect your right to dress like a woman even though you are a man."

    If your friend was, as you claim, a traditional catholic (whatever that means anymore - did he just prefer the old mass?  That doesn't make someone a traditional catholic), what he has done is called apostasy..  He has rejected the one, true Faith for a lie.

    St. John the Evangelist (the "little children, love one another" apostle) ran out of a bath-house rather than be under the same roof with a known heretic.  

    And I think it was St. Polycarp that called Simon Magus the "first born of satan."


    true, many times a freind of mine used to bring up topics-the false left/right paradigm, religious indifference,etc,etc...he was told at CA,AQ he was being a pharisee, harsh, judgmental....all he was doing was quoting official teaching!! most time verbatim....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Caraffa

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    « Reply #11 on: July 02, 2010, 03:02:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: jhfromsf68
    Hello forum,

     Recently my only traditional Catholic friend has left to Catholic Church  to become a Pentacostal. I really don't know how to deal with this, I'm trying to be nice and understanding and respect his decision on a personal level but on the other hand I realize what he has done is not very comendable, leaving the true church of Christ for a Protestant sect.


    What do you think brought on your friend's formal apostasy? Was this person raised a Traditional Catholic, NO Catholic, convert/revert? Chances are if he is now a Pentecostal, his reasons were most likely not intellectual. "Feelings" may have had something to do with it.    

    Pray for me, always.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #12 on: July 02, 2010, 03:23:09 PM »
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  • Most often its a lifestyle, I once met a women on a train going to Chicago many years ago.  She and I had a long conversation about religion.  She and I were both Catholic.  Anyway she pointed out to me that most people instead of seeking the truth, seek a religion that suits their lifestyle.

    Later, months later,  I met another women who was complaining to me, a Protesant this time, she was complaining because she kept going from one church to another.  I asked her what she was looking for and she said, a church that fits my lifestyle.  

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #13 on: July 02, 2010, 10:01:37 PM »
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  • The devil can heal, if God allows it, but it won't last.  

    Sounds as if it would take a very special grace now to bring him back, but who knows what God has planned for all of us in this world right now.  Chastisement right around the corner.  Could be!

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #14 on: July 02, 2010, 10:09:15 PM »
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  • Yes, a demon can both cause a disease and also remove symptoms of diseases.  

    The warmth and emotionalism, the outward affection and drama, probably appealed to your friend.  As an artist, he wants to reach out and touch the hearts of people, and that is what may have seduced him.  The Pentecostals reached out and touched him.

    The art world is really decadent.  I was ordered to burn a whole bunch of huge canvases by my priest, who cared for my eternal soul. :cheers:







     

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