Author Topic: French Translation (Read 882 times)

Caminus · « **on:** July 09, 2011, 04:13:07 PM »

cet esprit d’imprudence et d’erreur de la chute des rois funeste avant-coureur.

I have "the spirit of recklessness (imprudence) and error...not sure on the last, something about the forerunner of the fall of kings?

Raoul76 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2011, 05:26:24 PM »

Give the whole sentence. But I don't think that will make grammatical sense no matter what the context.

The first part is "the spirit of recklessness and error of the fall of kings, which makes little sense since the "fall of kings" isn't a spirit, the desire for the fall of kings is a spirit. "Funeste avant-coureur" is "grim foreshadowing," but the sentence seems to need a comma before that phrase, since it appears to describe whatever the subject of the sentence is and which you didn't provide.

Did Joseph Ratzinger write this?

Caminus · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:05:02 PM »

Still, if Mgr. Keane will permit us to express our humble opinion about this project of an Italian edition of the Life of Father Hecker, we will tell him plainly that the design is inspired by cet esprit d’imprudence et d’erreur de la chute des rois funeste avant-coureur (the spirit of recklessness and error……………..)

wallflower · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2011, 03:14:26 PM »

It seems like a strange sentence to me too, like it's missing something. How did you decide to word it?

Raoul76 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2011, 05:42:50 PM »

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Still, if Mgr. Keane will permit us to express our humble opinion about this project of an Italian edition of the Life of Father Hecker, we will tell him plainly that the design is inspired by cet esprit d’imprudence et d’erreur de la chute des rois funeste avant-coureur (the spirit of recklessness and error……………..)

I thought this was a French translation... I don't speak Greek :ready-to-eat:

So Father Hecker was an Americanist, if I'm not mistaken, and therefore the author is lamenting the idea of translating a bio of his life into Italian, which to him is an idea that shares the same Masonic spirit as the one that led to the fall of kings... But there is something that is wrong with the grammar, as pointed out above.

Here is the literal English version, just so people can see how little sense this makes: "Still, if Mgr. Keane will permit us to express our humble opinion about this project of an Italian edition of the Life of Father Hecker, we will tell him plainly that his design is inspired by the spirit of recklessness and error of the fall of kings an ill-omen." Does that make sense to you? Because it is no more grammatically-sound in French. That is exactly how it sounds in French.

( 1 ) The "fall of kings" cannot have a "spirit." Would you say in English "the spirit of the fall of kings" or would you say "the anti-monarchical spirit" or "the spirit of revolution" or something like that? The latter, obviously. Well, it's the same in French. The fall of kings is the effect of the spirit of revolution, which is the cause.

( 2 ) It's impossible to figure out what the ill-omen ( funeste avant-coureur ) is supposed to refer to. It makes even less sense with the context you just gave, since the bio either ( a ) Was published after the fall of kings in question or ( b ) If it precedes the fall of kings, then you still have to explain how the "fall of kings" can have a spirit.

The sentence would mostly make sense if, instead of "fall of kings," it said "revolutionary spirit" ( esprit de révolution ), and then there was a comma, and then it said "funeste avant-coureur DE LA CHUTE DES ROIS" ( a bad omen of the fall of kings ). The book, in other words, breathes a spirit of revolution that is a bad omen of the fall of kings... I think that is what must really be going on here but somehow it is all garbled.

Can you just write out the whole paragraph in French? Caminus, why is it that everything with you is difficult? Seriously, this is like a Vatican II sentence.

Caminus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2011, 04:28:48 PM »

I didn't write it so I can't take the blame. The French phrase was left untranslated in an English work; I took the fact that it was untranslated as some kind of indication that it was a popular saying in French; it was even off-set, standing alone in the text. That's it, just that one line, everything else is in English.

Quote

The sentence would mostly make sense if, instead of "fall of kings," it said "revolutionary spirit" ( esprit de révolution ), and then there was a comma, and then it said "funeste avant-coureur DE LA CHUTE DES ROIS" ( a bad omen of the fall of kings ). The book, in other words, breathes a spirit of revolution that is a bad omen of the fall of kings... I think that is what must really be going on here but somehow it is all garbled.

I think this is probably accurate given it is an anti-Americanist, anti-Revolutionist work.

I'll take a look at it again and see if I missed a comma or something.