Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty  (Read 3679 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DLaurentius

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Reputation: +49/-10
  • Gender: Male
  • Male
Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2018, 02:47:59 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on August 03, 2018, 01:38:47 PM
    His Holiness? Not even you believe that.
    The title "His Holiness" is a way of addressing the Holy Office of the Papacy, not necessarily the man himself. Popes are certainly capable of making mistakes and falling into mortal sin. I am certainly in no position to judge the soul of His Holiness Pope Francis, but his words and actions leave me with little doubt that he must be resisted.
    Logged
    "Nam, etsi ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis, non timebo mala, quoniam tu mecuм es. Virga tua, et baculus tuus, ipsa me consolata sunt." - Psalmi 22:4

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #16 on: August 03, 2018, 03:05:17 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DLaurentius on August 03, 2018, 11:23:45 AM
    As far as I know, His Holiness Pope Francis has not stated that capital punishment is intrinsically evil.

    But he did:

    Quote from: CCC, Francis
    Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”,[1] and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.

    Cited from the first link in the first entry of this thread.
    Logged
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Charlemagne

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1439
    • Reputation: +2103/-18
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #17 on: August 03, 2018, 03:33:33 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Struthio on August 03, 2018, 03:05:17 PM
    But he did:

    Cited from the first link in the first entry of this thread.
    Of course he did. "The Church [sic] teaches..." Yeah, right. More like, "The Gospel of Bergoglio teaches..." Francis has that Montiniesque habit of viewing Church teaching as his personal plaything, doctrines and dogmas be damned. And when he says "in light of the Gospel," he's stating that it's dogma (a doctrine solemnly proposed by the Church as formally revealed in Scripture or Tradition) that the death penalty is inadmissible. He's not fooling anyone - except the one billion nominal Catholics who follow this wolf.
    Logged
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #18 on: August 03, 2018, 04:12:12 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • His holiness is a heretic!  Tradition is truly in shambles, when it continues to raise the bar beyond all reason, to keep him from being called what he clearly is.  They have betrayed the faithful on so many levels, and they think that because they still provide a valid mass that it clears them of the responsibility for making excuses for this man's doctrinal doodlings and heretical explorations.  

    The sheep are at the mercy of the wolves!
    Logged

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7782
    • Reputation: +4577/-579
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #19 on: August 03, 2018, 07:03:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • All these contradictions to the traditional Magisterium of the Church (which has undoubtedly taught in favor of the Death Penalty for certain cases) are simply explained due to the fact that Bergolio is not the legitimate Successor of St. Peter; but an impostor freemason posing as "pope" at the Vatican headquarters.

    Therefore, instead of hearing the voice of the Head of the Catholic Church and the true Vicar of Christ on earth, all we are hearing is a puppet working for the interests of the global leftist Jєωry in charge.
    Logged
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7782
    • Reputation: +4577/-579
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #20 on: August 03, 2018, 07:07:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
    • See, this is the real situation of the Church and the reason for the apparent Magisterial contradictions:

    Logged
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #21 on: August 03, 2018, 07:17:56 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DLaurentius on August 03, 2018, 02:47:59 PM
    The title "His Holiness" is a way of addressing the Holy Office of the Papacy, not necessarily the man himself. Popes are certainly capable of making mistakes and falling into mortal sin. I am certainly in no position to judge the soul of His Holiness Pope Francis, but his words and actions leave me with little doubt that he must be resisted.
    Off topic, but how did you get by with no show of gender?!
    Logged

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #22 on: August 03, 2018, 08:50:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: DLaurentius on August 03, 2018, 02:47:59 PM
    The title "His Holiness" is a way of addressing the Holy Office of the Papacy, not necessarily the man himself. Popes are certainly capable of making mistakes and falling into mortal sin. I am certainly in no position to judge the soul of His Holiness Pope Francis, but his words and actions leave me with little doubt that he must be resisted.
    His Holiness for Francis sends the wrong message. If one is honest with themselves they would call him "Pope" Francis. 
    Logged
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #23 on: August 03, 2018, 09:07:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Cantarella on August 03, 2018, 07:03:27 PM
    All these contradictions to the traditional Magisterium of the Church (which has undoubtedly taught in favor of the Death Penalty for certain cases) are simply explained due to the fact that Bergolio is not the legitimate Successor of St. Peter; but an impostor freemason posing as "pope" at the Vatican headquarters.

    Therefore, instead of hearing the voice of the Head of the Catholic Church and the true Vicar of Christ on earth, all we are hearing is a puppet working for the interests of the global leftist Jєωry in charge.
    Indeed. People have forgotten what traditional and orthodox mean, they are satisfied with a bit of Brocade and a few whisps of smoke, while Shlomo is laughing at us.
    Logged

    Offline DLaurentius

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 71
    • Reputation: +49/-10
    • Gender: Male
    • Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #24 on: August 03, 2018, 10:18:06 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on August 03, 2018, 08:50:23 PM
    His Holiness for Francis sends the wrong message. If one is honest with themselves they would call him "Pope" Francis.
    I know it seems a bit eccentric to use honorific titles in the modern democratic age that we live in, but it was actually quite common in the old days, especially before the French Revolution. I use honorific titles as a way to show respect for holy offices, even though the people who hold them may be lacking in virtue.
     
    When God the Father spoke to St. Catherine of Sienna about the clergy, He told her, "[It] is my intention that they be held in due reverence, not for what they are in themselves, but for my sake, because of the authority I have given them. Therefore the virtuous must not lessen their reverence, even should these ministers fall short in virtue."
    Logged
    "Nam, etsi ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis, non timebo mala, quoniam tu mecuм es. Virga tua, et baculus tuus, ipsa me consolata sunt." - Psalmi 22:4

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #25 on: August 03, 2018, 10:32:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Honorific titles traditionally are not used for heretics illegitimately occupying offices.

    Paul IV decreed a different style of treatment for such heretics. We should rather grab their properties which are ours, if we reasonably could do that without collateral damage.
    Logged
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #26 on: August 03, 2018, 10:42:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • The following is the pre-Francis (JPII/Ratzinger) version of the CCC concerning death penalty:

    Quote
    2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

    Even that is a lie. Traditional teaching of the Church does not know the condition "if this is the only possible way ... " Also traditionally accepted practice did not generally conform to this condition.

    They're liars, heretics. And they think we're idiots.
    Logged
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10060
    • Reputation: +5256/-916
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #27 on: August 04, 2018, 07:21:20 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Struthio on August 03, 2018, 10:42:15 PM
    The following is the pre-Francis (JPII/Ratzinger) version of the CCC concerning death penalty:

    Even that is a lie. Traditional teaching of the Church does not know the condition "if this is the only possible way ... " Also traditionally accepted practice did not generally conform to this condition.

    They're liars, heretics. And they think we're idiots.
    Novus Ordo Watch does a good job of describing the evolution of the Novus Ordo teachings on the death penalty:
    https://novusordowatch.org/2018/08/francis-death-penalty-inadmissible/
    Logged
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #28 on: August 04, 2018, 09:35:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Struthio on August 03, 2018, 10:32:15 PM
    Honorific titles traditionally are not used for heretics illegitimately occupying offices.

    Paul IV decreed a different style of treatment for such heretics. We should rather grab their properties which are ours, if we reasonably could do that without collateral damage.
    Exactly.

    Moreover, he specifically asked to be called just Francis in his very first interview https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/chat-pope-francis

    Commonweal presents an unprecedented exclusive: Pope Francis’s first interview with a lay Catholic publication. The transcript of the editors’ conversation with the pope has been translated from the original Italian into Latin, then English, and then back into Italian, and then discarded and reconstructed from memory.

    Commonweal: Your Holiness—

    Pope Francis: Please, call me Francis.





    Logged
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline DLaurentius

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 71
    • Reputation: +49/-10
    • Gender: Male
    • Male
    Re: Francis Strikes (Out) Again -- the Death Penalty
    « Reply #29 on: August 04, 2018, 11:02:21 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!3
    • Quote from: Struthio on August 03, 2018, 10:32:15 PM
    Honorific titles traditionally are not used for heretics illegitimately occupying offices.

    Paul IV decreed a different style of treatment for such heretics. We should rather grab their properties which are ours, if we reasonably could do that without collateral damage.
    You are correct. It is highly inappropriate to use honorific titles for clerics who been formally declared heretics, schismatics, or apostates.

    However, no person currently on this Earth has the authority to declare His Holiness Pope Francis to be a formal heretic. If his statements on the death penalty are in fact heretical, he might only be a material heretic. A future Pope or council will have the authority, if necessary, to declare some former Popes to be formal heretics. Currently, I provisionally accept that His Holiness Pope Francis is a valid Pope and that he is not a formal heretic.
    Logged
    "Nam, etsi ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis, non timebo mala, quoniam tu mecuм es. Virga tua, et baculus tuus, ipsa me consolata sunt." - Psalmi 22:4
    Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
    « previous next »