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Offline Augustinus21

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 11:20:00 AM »
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  • Here’s the podcast of the episode
    https://podtail.com/en/podcast/what-catholics-believe/salvation-outside-christ-s-church-impossible/


    Father Jenkins is not convincing.

    At 10:20, Father explains that to qualify the proper "desire", the non-Catholic must have a love for God that supersedes anything.

    Supersedes: to replace in power, authority, effectiveness, acceptance, use, etc., as by another person or thing.

    That person Father Jenkins describes is just a straw-man.  



    The sobering reality as Father Feeney would remind us, is the incredibly low probability of such a soul.  And if there is such a longing soul, he/she would have been given the grace to receive a proper Baptism by water.

    Liberal minds utilize the fictitious straw man to carry their arguments.

    Example: The straw-man technique was used by the Clinton era late-term abortion advocates, who ginned up statistics of women dying from childbirth.  It helped their argument immensely.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 04:21:48 PM »
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  • I watched the first minutes where he says that the Catechism of Trent (COT) teaches baptism of desire, that's all I needed to here,  for nowhere does the Catechism of Trent mention the phrase baptism of desire, moreover, the quote that he mentions does not say that a person can be saved without baptism. The Catechism of Trent does clearly teach that one must be baptized to be saved and that there is no sanctifying grace to be had any other way than through the sacraments, and many other teachings that contradict the teachings of those that teach that Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews.... can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, what 99% of promoters of BOD really believe.



    The quote from the COT that Fr. Jenkins says teaches baptism of desire
    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Ordinarily They Are Not Baptized At Once, p. 179: “On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time.  The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.”


    Many other COT quotes that contradict the teachings of those that teach that Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews.... can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, what 99% of promoters of BOD really believe.

     
    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Tan Books, p. 243: “For the Eucharist is the end of all the Sacraments, and the symbol of unity and brotherhood in the Church, outside of which none can attain grace.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Tan Books, p. 320 The Sacrament of Holy Orders - Requirements in Candidates for Orders - Right Intention:  Thus they offer Sacrifice for themselves and for all the people; they explain God's law and exhort and form the faithful to observe it promptly and cheerfully; they administer the Sacraments of Christ our Lord by means of which all grace is conferred and increased; and, in a word, they are separated from the rest of the people to fill by far the greatest and noblest of all ministries.

                              
    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Comparisons among the Sacraments, p. 154: “Though all the Sacraments possess a divine and admirable efficacy, it is well worthy of special remark that all are not of equal necessity or of equal dignity, nor is the signification of all the same.     “Among them three are said to be necessary beyond the rest, although in all three this necessity is not of the same kind. The universal and absolute necessity of Baptism our Savior has declared in these words: Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5).”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, On Baptism – Necessity of Baptism, pp. 176-177: “If the knowledge of what has been hitherto explained be, as it is, of highest importance to the faithful, it is no less important to them to learn that THE LAW OF BAPTISM, AS ESTABLISHED BY OUR LORD, EXTENDS TO ALL, so that unless they are regenerated to God through the grace of Baptism, be their parents Christians or infidels, they are born to eternal misery and destruction.  Pastors, therefore, should often explain these words of the Gospel: Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5).”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Definition of Baptism, p. 163: “Unless, says our Lord, a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5); and, speaking of the Church, the Apostle says, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life (Eph. 5:26).  Thus it follows that Baptism may be rightly and accurately defined: The Sacrament of regeneration by water in the word.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, In Case of Necessity Adults May Be Baptized At Once, p. 180: “Sometimes, however, when there exists a just and necessary cause, as in the case of imminent danger of death, Baptism is not to be deferred, particularly if the person to be baptized is well instructed in the mysteries of faith.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Baptism made obligatory after Christ’s Resurrection, p. 171: “Holy writers are unanimous in saying that after the Resurrection of our Lord, when He gave His Apostles the command to go and teach all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, the law of Baptism became obligatory on all who were to be saved.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Matter of Baptism - Fitness, p. 165: “Upon this subject pastors can teach in the first place that water, which is always at hand and within the reach of all, was the fittest matter of a Sacrament which is necessary to all for salvation.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, On Baptism – Second Effect: Sacramental Character, p. 159: “In the character impressed by Baptism, both effects are exemplified.  By it we are qualified to receive the other Sacraments, and the Christian is distinguished from those who do not profess the faith.”
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 07:59:00 PM »
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  • Here’s the podcast of the episode
    https://podtail.com/en/podcast/what-catholics-believe/salvation-outside-christ-s-church-impossible/

    So, SeanJohson pseudo-account Augustinus21, you turn to yet another sedevacantist for your authority.  Since people would call you out for lameness in posting two spam threads, you create a fake alter-ego account.

    When SeanJohnson storms out of CI again because Matthew will not ban us "heretics", he'll carry on the fight through Augustinus21.  This way he doesn't have to pull the Anonymous Forum stunt again.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #4 on: August 10, 2019, 11:29:58 PM »
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  • So, SeanJohson pseudo-account Augustinus21, you turn to yet another sedevacantist for your authority.  Since people would call you out for lameness in posting two spam threads, you create a fake alter-ego account.

    When SeanJohnson storms out of CI again because Matthew will not ban us "heretics", he'll carry on the fight through Augustinus21.  This way he doesn't have to pull the Anonymous Forum stunt again.


    Do you think Sean went wild and violated the forum rules so?

    My impression of Augustinus21 is that of an early year SSPX seminarian.

     
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #5 on: August 14, 2019, 07:45:32 AM »
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  • Do you think Sean went wild and violated the forum rules so?

    My impression of Augustinus21 is that of an early year SSPX seminarian.

     
    I don't think this poster is Sean J.  However, he already has another account: X.  And I believe it has been allowed to continue.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #6 on: August 14, 2019, 07:57:39 AM »
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  • Oh, the frothy lather and rabid gnashing of teeth!

    :popcorn:
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #7 on: August 14, 2019, 07:59:57 AM »
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  • I watched the first minutes where he says that the Catechism of Trent (COT) teaches baptism of desire, that's all I needed to here,  for nowhere does the Catechism of Trent mention the phrase baptism of desire, moreover, the quote that he mentions does not say that a person can be saved without baptism. The Catechism of Trent does clearly teach that one must be baptized to be saved and that there is no sanctifying grace to be had any other way than through the sacraments, and many other teachings that contradict the teachings of those that teach that Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews.... can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, what 99% of promoters of BOD really believe.



    The quote from the COT that Fr. Jenkins says teaches baptism of desire
    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Ordinarily They Are Not Baptized At Once, p. 179: “On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time.  The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.”


    Many other COT quotes that contradict the teachings of those that teach that Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhist, Jews.... can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards, what 99% of promoters of BOD really believe.

     
    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Tan Books, p. 243: “For the Eucharist is the end of all the Sacraments, and the symbol of unity and brotherhood in the Church, outside of which none can attain grace.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Tan Books, p. 320 The Sacrament of Holy Orders - Requirements in Candidates for Orders - Right Intention:  Thus they offer Sacrifice for themselves and for all the people; they explain God's law and exhort and form the faithful to observe it promptly and cheerfully; they administer the Sacraments of Christ our Lord by means of which all grace is conferred and increased; and, in a word, they are separated from the rest of the people to fill by far the greatest and noblest of all ministries.

                              
    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Comparisons among the Sacraments, p. 154: “Though all the Sacraments possess a divine and admirable efficacy, it is well worthy of special remark that all are not of equal necessity or of equal dignity, nor is the signification of all the same.     “Among them three are said to be necessary beyond the rest, although in all three this necessity is not of the same kind. The universal and absolute necessity of Baptism our Savior has declared in these words: Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5).”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, On Baptism – Necessity of Baptism, pp. 176-177: “If the knowledge of what has been hitherto explained be, as it is, of highest importance to the faithful, it is no less important to them to learn that THE LAW OF BAPTISM, AS ESTABLISHED BY OUR LORD, EXTENDS TO ALL, so that unless they are regenerated to God through the grace of Baptism, be their parents Christians or infidels, they are born to eternal misery and destruction.  Pastors, therefore, should often explain these words of the Gospel: Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5).”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Definition of Baptism, p. 163: “Unless, says our Lord, a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5); and, speaking of the Church, the Apostle says, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life (Eph. 5:26).  Thus it follows that Baptism may be rightly and accurately defined: The Sacrament of regeneration by water in the word.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, In Case of Necessity Adults May Be Baptized At Once, p. 180: “Sometimes, however, when there exists a just and necessary cause, as in the case of imminent danger of death, Baptism is not to be deferred, particularly if the person to be baptized is well instructed in the mysteries of faith.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Baptism made obligatory after Christ’s Resurrection, p. 171: “Holy writers are unanimous in saying that after the Resurrection of our Lord, when He gave His Apostles the command to go and teach all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, the law of Baptism became obligatory on all who were to be saved.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Matter of Baptism - Fitness, p. 165: “Upon this subject pastors can teach in the first place that water, which is always at hand and within the reach of all, was the fittest matter of a Sacrament which is necessary to all for salvation.”

     

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, On Baptism – Second Effect: Sacramental Character, p. 159: “In the character impressed by Baptism, both effects are exemplified.  By it we are qualified to receive the other Sacraments, and the Christian is distinguished from those who do not profess the faith.”
    Only for a Feeneyite does Trent’s desire for baptism not equal baptism of desire!
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #8 on: August 14, 2019, 08:02:23 AM »
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  • So, SeanJohson pseudo-account Augustinus21, you turn to yet another sedevacantist for your authority.  Since people would call you out for lameness in posting two spam threads, you create a fake alter-ego account.

    When SeanJohnson storms out of CI again because Matthew will not ban us "heretics", he'll carry on the fight through Augustinus21.  This way he doesn't have to pull the Anonymous Forum stunt again.
    More schizophrenic paranoia from the Loudestmouth!
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #9 on: August 14, 2019, 12:57:06 PM »
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  • Do you think Sean went wild and violated the forum rules so?

    My impression of Augustinus21 is that of an early year SSPX seminarian.

     

    I found it interesting, for sure, that Augustinus21 disappeared for 3 days shortly after I made this accusation ... then just started posting again right around the time that Sean made his latest post.

    Augustinus21's posts are relatively short, so it's hard for me to read much into a writing/posting/thinking style.

    I would have expected a direct denial by Augustinus if that were not the case.  That's actually how I try to flush these fake accounts out.  USUALLY Traditional Catholics have a conscience with regard to lying.  So when they respond with various circumlocutions that savor of mental reservation, then you can usually be sure that it's true.

    No denial yet by Augustinus21 ... or, for that matter, by SeanJohnson.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #10 on: August 14, 2019, 12:58:49 PM »
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  • More schizophrenic paranoia from the Loudestmouth!

    So, SeanJohnson, I'll put the question to you directly.  Have you posted under the account "Augustinus21"?  Yes or no will suffice.  If you respond "no", then I'll take your word for it and drop the matter ... since I will presume that a Traditional Catholic would not lie.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #11 on: August 14, 2019, 01:36:02 PM »
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  • So, SeanJohnson, I'll put the question to you directly.  Have you posted under the account "Augustinus21"?  Yes or no will suffice.  If you respond "no", then I'll take your word for it and drop the matter ... since I will presume that a Traditional Catholic would not lie.
    No
    Matthew can verify
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fr. Jenkins refutes Feeneyism
    « Reply #12 on: August 15, 2019, 05:22:39 PM »
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  • No
    Matthew can verify

    No need.  I accept your No at your word.

    BTW, this thread is in the wrong forum.

     

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