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Offline AMDGJMJ

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For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
« on: April 06, 2015, 09:26:15 AM »
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  • Introduction

    Here is some of the most helpful advice I have come across for girls and women who are trying to determine whether God wishes them to enter the holy state of matrimony or not. (From Fr. Lasance’s book A Catholic Girl’s Guide)

    Ought I to Marry? (LXVIII)

    “Of the three paths before you when you stand at the parting of the ways one leads straight onward; it is the shortest, most direct way to heaven, and is known as the Religious life.  The second trends away t the right; it also leads to the same bright, eternal goal, by a slightly circuitous route; it is the state of the unmarried in the world.  The third road leads away to the left, into a hilly region; there are many pleasures and joys to be met with on that way, and also much toil and many sorrows; that is the married state.  All these three states, I repeat most emphatically, are ordained by God; but any state is not fitted for any individual.  Neither is it a matter of indifference to almighty God which state in life we choose for ourselves.

    We will now consider each of these three states in turn in order to aid you in making a wise choice.  The reason why I speak first of the married state is simply because a great majority of mankind is called to this state, and therefore is suggests itself first to our consideration.  Now, the decisive question presents itself: Are you called to the married state? Ought you to marry?  Let me suggest to you a few serious thoughts.

    The answer to the question, “Ought you to marry?” depends upon another question: Do you think yourself capable of fulfilling the duties of the married state?  In order to answer this question you must learn what these duties really are; and I will now proceed briefly to set them before you.
    One of the chief among these duties requires that husband and wife should live together in concord, love, and conjugal fidelity until death.  They must remain together, since marriage is indissoluble.  Only when it pleases almighty God to sever the bond by taking the husband or wife out of this world may the survivor marry again.

    How should married people live together?  First of all in peace and harmony.  They should aim at, and strive after, one and the same things; they should seek to lead a Christian life, serving God faithfully and helping each other on the way to heaven.  For this end they must be united, avoiding anger, quarreling and dissension; otherwise they will embitter their life and make it a sort of hell upon earth.  Nor can they escape hell in the world to come unless they repent and amend.

    The following apposite anecdote may be related here.  Two married persons who lived unhappily together carried their dispute one day so far as to come to blows.  A neighbor who hear what was going on suddenly shouted: “Fire!  Fire!”  The quarrel was forgotten; husband and wife eagerly inquired where the fire was burning.  “In hell,” was the unexpected reply, “and thither married people must go who persist in living in enmity, anger, and dissension.”

    Married people should live together in love, not in strife and in quarreling.  They should endeavor to please each other, they should pray for each other, have patience and bear with each other’s faults.  When some grievance presents itself they should not complain to others, but mutually forgive and become reconciled.

    And they should live in conjugal fidelity, keeping the promises they solemnly made at the altar.  The wife must not fix her affections on any other man; the husband must not seek after any other woman; else will they be in danger of committing one of the most grievous and terrible of sins, a sin which God punishes very severely.

    Another important duty is that of mutual edification.  Husband and wife should set each other a good example, seeking each to sanctify the other, and walk together on the heavenward road.  Such is the highest aim and object of a union which a sacrament has rendered holy.  Christ loved His own unto the end, and, moreover, in such a manner that they should attain their own final salvation.  So must the wife love her husband, and the husband his wife–in such a way that they may both attain their final end, eternal blessedness.  They should therefore unite in prayer, attend divine worship together, and receive the sacraments at the same time.  If they do this the blessing of God will assuredly rest upon them.

    Difficult and important as are those duties of married people which we have already considered, the most difficult, and at the same time the most important of all, is doubtless that of bringing up their children in the fear of God.  When the Last Judgment comes we who are priest and confessors shall not be judged in the same ways as ordinary individuals; we shall not only have to answer for what we have personally done of left undone, but we shall have further to give account of the souls committed to our care.  In precisely the same manner shall fathers and mothers be judged; not merely in regard to what their own lives have been, but as to the manner in which they have brought up their children.  If these latter are doomed to perdition through the bad education they have received from their parents, they shall hang like millstones round the neck of their father or mother, sinking them yet deeper into the abyss of hell.

    This difficult duty of the education of children, and the heavy responsibility attaching to it, is sufficient of itself to make you, Christian maiden, seriously reflect before answering the question “Ought I to marry?” in the affirmative.

    If this duty of education is so difficult and burdensome for the father, it is doubly and trebly so for the mother.  For the physical and spiritual training of children depends, in their earliest years at least, almost exclusively upon her.  How great a load of trouble and anxiety, grief and suffering, must rest upon a mother until her four, six, eight, or even more children can feed and dress themselves, until they are to a certain extent independent of her!  Since the day when God said to the mother of the human race: “In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power,” the life of every wife and mother has been a life of constant sacrifice and renunciation, full of sorrows and trials.

    My dear daughter, “Ought you to marry?”  To sum up everything in a few words, I would say to you:  If you have courage to make great sacrifices, if you are very fond of children, if you feel that you could readily submit to the will of another, if you are sound and healthy in both mind and body, if you are sufficiently versed in household matter, and have attained the proper age (I would say the age of twenty), then you may marry if you consider yourself called to the wedded state rather than to an unmarried life in the world.  May God enlighten, guide, and bless you!  And may the words of Solomon be exemplified in your case: “She hath looked well to the paths of her house, and hath not eaten her bread idle.  Her children rose up, and called her blessed; her husband and he praised her.”
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


    Online Ladislaus

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    For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
    « Reply #1 on: April 06, 2015, 10:28:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    For this end they must be united, avoiding anger, quarreling and dissension; otherwise they will embitter their life and make it a sort of hell upon earth.
    ...
    Married people should live together in love, not in strife and in quarreling.


    But how?  Father Lasance and EVERY SINGLE CATHOLIC AUTHOR in modern times REFUSES to explain how.  Why do they refuse?  Because none of them have the courage to stand up against the feminists.  There WILL be disagreements between husband and wife on certain matters.  This cannot be avoided.  So then how will the anger, dissension, and quarreling be avoided?  Only if one party gives way.  Which party needs to give way?  Answer:  the wife must concede to the wishes of her husband, and she must do so completely without holding a grudge or resentment but with perfect peace and happiness.  How can she do this?  By recognizing her VOW OF OBEDIENCE to her husband in her marriage vows.  And in realizing that obedience to her husband = obedience to God and pleases God and sanctifies her ... just as it sanctifies religious in a state of obedience.

    In the modern feminist era, the vow of obedience is completely underemphasized (on purpose) to the point that it's little more than some token phrase in the marriage vows (and the Novus Ordo has removed it entirely).  That vow of obedience is a REAL VOW and not just some sort of romantic phrase.  It's every bit as real as the vow of obedience that a professed religious makes to a religious superior.  And the wife is bound to obedience to no less a degree than a religious.  And the wife can disobey her husband only under the same conditions that a religious might be allowed to and sometimes obliged to disobey a superior.

    That needs to be absolutely driven home to couples planning on marriage, and I have never met a Traditional priest even who has the fortitude to do so.  If I were a priest, I would ask the wives to sign a vow of obedience and would refuse to marry the couple if she didn't.

    Of course the "authority" of the husband is not given to him to exercise tyranically to serve his own interests and to subject everyone to him.  No, it's to be exercised in the manner of a SERVANT who is attempting to use the authority to lead his family to heaven and in the service of God.  Just as Our Lord explained the nature of authority to the Apostles when He washed their feet before ordaining them to the priesthood.  Any abuse of this authority on the part of the husband in order to subject his family to his whims and to please himself is sinful.  Though that does not invalidate the authority unless it countermands the authority of God and the authority of the Church, and if the commands are unjust (according to the criteria laid out by St. Thomas, they need not be obeyed).  Now we understand why the corollary to St. Paul's "wives obey your husbands" is "husbands love your wives".  It's not some sort of romantic mush ... as it's been reduced to today.

    If wives humbly submit to the authority of their husbands, there will be no quarreling and dissension when disagreements arise (as they inevitably will).  And only the most wicked and barbaric men could fail to love dearly a woman who defers in this way to their authority.

    And if this is brought to a couple's mind, then the young ladies will use better judgment in selecting husbands.  Is this a man that I could obey like this?  Is this a man who will use his authority in love to serve me and the children?  In this way, it will not be various hormonal/romantic idiotic notions that drive her to select a husband.


    Online Ladislaus

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    For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
    « Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 10:36:05 AM »
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  • In addition, if this structure of obedience is there in the family, the children will also be more inclined to obey their parents, as they would see their mother modeling obedience to their father.  And the father in turn must completely obey the Church (in the form of his pastor) as well as civil authorities, in other to demonstrate how this hierarchy of obedience leads all the way up to God.  If the husband abuses his authority to subject his wife and children to himself rather than as an intermediary towards bringing them into a state of subjection to God, then he'll do nothing but make himself an occasion of sin against this divinely ordained structure.  So, for instance, if I have a military officer whom I must obey in the armed forces, but that military officer refuses to obey his superiors, then the chain of command is broken and the military officer makes it difficult for his subordinates to obey his commands.  That chain of command must remain unbroken all the way down.

    Online Ladislaus

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    For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
    « Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 10:38:28 AM »
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  • Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
    « Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 12:27:28 PM »
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  • It's really frightening when you think about how far Catholics have fallen.  Now, I know that the married folk in the St Louis SSPX Chapel are devout and faithful but your average novus ordite would think that Ladislaus has flipped his lid and is ready for the men in white to come and collect him before he does himself or anyone else any harm.

    The novus ordo is now pretty much accepting divorced and remarried on the fly without it actually being written down anywhere and in the novus ordo obedience is the punchline of a joke (except when they are condeming Traditional Catholics).

    The married life should be entered only after much prayer, contemplation and the advice of a good priest.  Any other method is a recipe for spiritual disaster.





    Offline lauraelizabeth

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    For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
    « Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 12:32:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.



    Obedience is a virtue mentioned many, many times throughout this beautiful book. I really haven't read anything that has even closely matched this book in preparing me for marriage. Thank God for it !

    Online Ladislaus

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    « Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 12:44:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: lauraelizabeth
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.



    Obedience is a virtue mentioned many, many times throughout this beautiful book. I really haven't read anything that has even closely matched this book in preparing me for marriage. Thank God for it !


    That may be well and good, but he completely fails to mention it in terms of his summary of the married state and in the context of discernment.

    #1 rule of discernment needs to be whether the woman is willing to submit in obedience to her husband.  If not, she needs to stay away from the married state.

    He lists all the duties of a woman in the married state methodically but absolutely fails to mention the duty of obedience to her husband.  It's a complete travesty.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    For Women Discerning a Calling to the Married State...
    « Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 06:40:24 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.


    You may not have realized but did indicate obedience and submission when he said in the summary paragraph of this chapter:

    "My dear daughter, “Ought you to marry?” To sum up everything in a few words, I would say to you: If you have courage to make great sacrifices, if you are very fond of children, if you feel that you could readily submit to the will of another, if you are sound and healthy in both mind and body, if you are sufficiently versed in household matter, and have attained the proper age (I would say the age of twenty), then you may marry if you consider yourself called to the wedded state rather than to an unmarried life in the world. May God enlighten, guide, and bless you! And may the words of Solomon be exemplified in your case: “She hath looked well to the paths of her house, and hath not eaten her bread idle. Her children rose up, and called her blessed; her husband and he praised her.”


    I think that you will find that any solid traditional Catholic priest always expects women to be submissive to their husband.  Fr. Lasance just did not mention it in full since this chapter was about how to discern a vocation; not how to live it afterwards.  That would be in another chapter.  :-)
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    « Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 06:44:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: lauraelizabeth
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.



    Obedience is a virtue mentioned many, many times throughout this beautiful book. I really haven't read anything that has even closely matched this book in preparing me for marriage. Thank God for it !


    I know!  This book is one of the best!  

    It has helped me SO MUCH to become a better "Catholic girl"!  
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline shin

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    « Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 08:01:27 AM »
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  • The apostle Paul speaks most explicitly of the obedience due from a wife. In his Epistle to the Ephesians he says: "Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord: Because the husband is the head of the wife; as Christ is the head of the Church."

    In the household, therefore, the husband is lord and master; his wife, his children, the men servants and the maids are subject to him. Would that women knew how much wiser it is to rest content with the position God has assigned to them! How much dissension, how much vexation, how many disagreeable scenes in family life would thus be avoided!

    - The Catholic Girl's Guide

    The second essential in home-training consists in accustoming children to obedience from the outset. A little boy was asked: "Tell me, my child, do you obey your mother or does she obey you?" "I obey her when she is angry," he replied pertly, "but when she is not angry, she obeys me!" It was very plain that he had never been taught to obey.

    Yet it is quite possible to accustom even little children to obey. This is proved by the fact that irrational animals can be trained to a certain kind of obedience. Why, for instance, do not dogs and cats jump upon the dinner table when dishes containing food are placed upon it, as their natural instincts would prompt them to do? Simply because they have learned to obey.

    But there are teachers and mothers who in their foolish fondness themselves obey a child. The little creature has only to scream, and they hasten to do whatever the young gentleman wishes! If a child is not taught to obey from infancy, the lesson of obedience will prove very hard to implant later on and never perhaps be thoroughly grounded.

    5. Just as it is often necessary when tying up young trees to use a certain amount of force to straighten what is crooked, so strictness is required in accustoming children to obedience; they must be reproved, and punished also. For the words of Scripture cannot but be true: "He that spareth the rod, hateth his son." It is clear that this saying holds good in the present day;

    - The Catholic Girl's Guide

    I include the latter quote because girls who are not accustomed to obedience as children to be less suitable marriage partners, no?
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Online Ladislaus

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    « Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 08:53:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    "My dear daughter, “Ought you to marry?” To sum up everything in a few words, I would say to you: If you have courage to make great sacrifices, if you are very fond of children, if you feel that you could readily submit to the will of another, if you are sound and healthy in both mind and body, if you are sufficiently versed in household matter, and have attained the proper age (I would say the age of twenty), then you may marry if you consider yourself called to the wedded state rather than to an unmarried life in the world. May God enlighten, guide, and bless you! And may the words of Solomon be exemplified in your case: “She hath looked well to the paths of her house, and hath not eaten her bread idle. Her children rose up, and called her blessed; her husband and he praised her.”


    I think that you will find that any solid traditional Catholic priest always expects women to be submissive to their husband.  Fr. Lasance just did not mention it in full since this chapter was about how to discern a vocation; not how to live it afterwards.  That would be in another chapter.  :-)


    No, I'm sorry, but that can mean anything, and most likely refers to the notion of mutual submission of will that many even Traditional priests preach today ... and does not speak explicitly to the unilateral duty of submission and obedience by the wife to the husband.

    Too many Traditional Catholics assume that anything written before Vatican II comes from a "solid Traditional Catholic priest"; that's a grave mistake.  I've seen lots of modernist nonsense in the St. Andrew's Missal.



    Online Ladislaus

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    « Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 08:55:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: shin
    Would that women knew how much wiser it is to rest content with the position God has assigned to them! How much dissension, how much vexation, how many disagreeable scenes in family life would thus be avoided!


    No, it's not just wiser; it is a strict obligation.

    Online Ladislaus

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    « Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 09:02:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    Quote from: lauraelizabeth
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.



    Obedience is a virtue mentioned many, many times throughout this beautiful book. I really haven't read anything that has even closely matched this book in preparing me for marriage. Thank God for it !


    I know!  This book is one of the best!  

    It has helped me SO MUCH to become a better "Catholic girl"!  


    I'm not saying that there's nothing good in this book.  What I'm saying is that there's an underemphasis on the duties related to the vow of obedience.  I'm saying that it's therefore lacking by privation.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    « Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 11:52:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: AMDGJMJ
    Quote from: lauraelizabeth
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Does Father Lasance mention to the duty of obedience even ONCE in this entire thing?  It's a unilateral duty of wife towards husband, with the corollary duty of love from husband towards wife (in the understanding that he must use his authority to serve his wife and children).  Father talks about "mutual" this and "mutual" that but never these corresponding unilateral and complimentary duties as taught by the Holy Spirit through St. Paul.



    Obedience is a virtue mentioned many, many times throughout this beautiful book. I really haven't read anything that has even closely matched this book in preparing me for marriage. Thank God for it !


    I know!  This book is one of the best!  

    It has helped me SO MUCH to become a better "Catholic girl"!  


    I'm not saying that there's nothing good in this book.  What I'm saying is that there's an underemphasis on the duties related to the vow of obedience.  I'm saying that it's therefore lacking by privation.


    We must remember that this written merely to help women discern whether they had a vocation...

    Also, back in the days he wrote this women's obedience to their husbands was taken more for granted and not as much contested anyhow.  

    I agree that this is definitely a problem in marriages these days though.  :-)
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline Jaynek

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    « Reply #14 on: April 07, 2015, 05:21:26 PM »
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  • Do those who have read this book think it would be helpful for me to read in my situation?  I am not a girl, but an old married woman.  However, I am a convert and I have had some very bad formation once I became Catholic. I am trying to learn now what I should have learned years ago.