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Offline Malleus 01

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For Tele
« on: May 22, 2012, 02:39:50 PM »
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  • In reading I stumbled across the following and just had to share it with Tele



    "Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community -- however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things -- whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.

    Beware, Venerable Brethren, of that growing abuse, in speech as in writing, of the name of God as though it were a meaningless label, to be affixed to any creation, more or less arbitrary, of human speculation. Use your influence on the Faithful, that they refuse to yield to this aberration. Our God is the Personal God, supernatural, omnipotent, infinitely perfect, one in the Trinity of Persons, tri-personal in the unity of divine essence, the Creator of all existence. Lord, King and ultimate Consummator of the history of the world, who will not, and cannot, tolerate a rival God by His side.

    This God, this Sovereign Master, has issued commandments whose value is independent of time and space, country and race. As God's sun shines on every human face so His law knows neither privilege nor exception. Rulers and subjects, crowned and uncrowned, rich and poor are equally subject to His word. From the fullness of the Creators' right there naturally arises the fullness of His right to be obeyed by individuals and communities, whoever they are. This obedience permeates all branches of activity in which moral values claim harmony with the law of God, and pervades all integration of the ever-changing laws of man into the immutable laws of God.

    None but superficial minds could stumble into concepts of a national God, of a national religion; or attempt to lock within the frontiers of a single people, within the narrow limits of a single race, God, the Creator of the universe, King and Legislator of all nations before whose immensity they are "as a drop of a bucket" (Isaiah xI, 15). (Pope Pius XI, Mit Brennender Sorge, March 17, 1937.)

    Pax


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 02:41:20 PM »
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  • Here's the critical line:

    however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things

    The fact is those who deny race has any necessary or honorable function and accuse those believe that it does of being "heretics" are in reality liberals and are trying to impose a liberal and politically correct view on Catholicism.


    Offline Malleus 01

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    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 02:48:35 PM »
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  • But isnt it likewise true that the Mother of GOD replaced those souls lost to the Protestant Reformation (Overwhelmingly Caucasian) person for person in number with Mexicans - after ther Apparition to Juan Diego?

    So much for that theory

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 02:51:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: Malleus 01
    But isnt it likewise true that the Mother of GOD replaced those souls lost to the Protestant Reformation (Overwhelmingly Caucasian) person for person in number with Mexicans - after ther Apparition to Juan Diego?


    I do not know if "person for person" is true - I've never heard that theory.

    I think you should consider that like many natural goods, people have a right to consider and value their race.

    Quote
    So much for that theory


    There is no logic in this conclusion.

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 03:03:44 PM »
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  • It's always the same all or nothing argument coming from "the left:"  either you think race is nothing or you think it is god.  The wonderful thing about Catholicism, that Protestants lack, is a conception of degrees of sin.  This concept should reflect in their respective cultures and intellectual thinking.  So, when somebody seems incapable of not overgeneralizing, in other words, incapable of discriminating between making a god of something and just honoring the god who created it, then it makes me wonder or even conclude, that the culture and "professors" that breed that kind of thinking in people, must be revolutionary and hence, "dangerous."  





    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 03:38:06 PM »
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  • Just look at the communion of saints.  You have to be able to discriminate, between making a god of something and honoring something that God made, in order to practice that catholic teaching, without engaging in idolatry.  

    Maybe for a cradle catholic or married into it convert, it's just something they live and breath or don't really think about, but for a convert who comes to catholicism, from protestantism, then I think you'd need to understand that.  It's actually a part of catholic apologetics.

    And isn't protestantism, guided by/a return to judaism, really the "traditional"  source of revolution in the west.

    I mean, how can a unitarian church, for example, be seen as anything but judaizing.  A bunch of "christians" who decide they don't believe in the trinity anymore.  Sounds like Jєωs to me!  

    What's a de-evolved christian?  A Jєω or perhaps, a pagan.  But the real root, is Jєωs.  I mean, if you just obliterate Christ, then you sit around waiting for "the messiah" to come and of course, you're back to knowing what you should do, but it's "too hard," because you're a slave to "the law of sin."  You can't die with Christ and be reborn anymore, because you don't believe He's arrived yet.






























    Offline Ethelred

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    « Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 02:19:19 AM »
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  • Most clever thread name in days. Congratulations!

    Luckily our good Telesphorus is not as clever, otherwise he would have replied in a new thread named "For Malle", isn't it?

    Offline Malleus 01

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    « Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 08:20:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: Malleus 01
    But isnt it likewise true that the Mother of GOD replaced those souls lost to the Protestant Reformation (Overwhelmingly Caucasian) person for person in number with Mexicans - after ther Apparition to Juan Diego?


    I do not know if "person for person" is true - I've never heard that theory.

    I think you should consider that like many natural goods, people have a right to consider and value their race.

    Quote
    So much for that theory


    There is no logic in this conclusion.


    to quote Dr Drolesky in To Advocate Christ the King, Nothing Else
    by Thomas A. Droleskey

    " As Catholics, my friends, we know that God does not judge us on the basis of the race or ethnicity. Our immortal souls is made unto His own very image and likeness in that we have a rational soul with an intellect to know Him and a will to choose with which to love and to serve Him. Human beings do not love God as "blacks" or as "whites" or as "Latinos or Latinas" or as "Orientals" or as "Native Americans" or as "Italians" or as "Croatians" or as "French" or as "Americans" but as creatures whose immortal souls have been redeemed by the shedding of every single drop of the Most Precious Blood of the Divine Redeemer, Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Human beings are called upon to love God as He has revealed Himself to them through His true Church, the Catholic Church, and to love their own immortal souls as they have been redeemed at so great a cost. Our principal identity as human beings is as members of the Catholic Church. Everything else about us (race, ethnicity, nationality, gender), although occurring certainly within the Providence of God, is secondary.

    As I tried to explain to students during my days as a college professor, Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ embraced all of the legitimate joys and sorrows of this passing, mortal vale of tears as He underwent His fearful Passion and Death. We suffer or experience joy as human beings, as redeemed creatures, not as mere animals identifiable by external characteristics. There are no such things as "black" tears or "white" tears or "Indian" tears. There is no such thing as "white" joy or "black" joy" or "Latino" joy. The use of the "race" or "ethnicity" or "gender" card is the refuge of cowardly scoundrels who seek privilege and/or to indemnify slothful or corrupt behavior."

    who goes on to write :

    " Just as Our Lady sought out new members for Holy Mother Church in Mexico after the loss of around nine million of her children in Europe in the immediate aftermath of the Protestant Revolutions, replacing those lost to the Faith in Europe almost person for person in Mexico and elsewhere in the Americas within a short time of her apparitions to Juan Diego, I believe that Our Lady means to use the hard working people from Mexico elsewhere in the Americas to help convert a land that is steeped in one error after another. Our Lady still loves the Americas, and I believe that she wants to use the people from Mexico and other parts of Latin America to be a means convert this land to the true Faith. It matters not to God whether the majority of people in this country are "white" or "brown" or "black" or turquoise. What matters if that whoever is here practices the Holy Faith and seeks, despite their own sins and failings, to know, love, and serve Him as He has revealed Himself to us through His true Church."


    Offline Malleus 01

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    « Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 08:33:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marcelino
    Just look at the communion of saints.  You have to be able to discriminate, between making a god of something and honoring something that God made, in order to practice that catholic teaching, without engaging in idolatry.  

    Maybe for a cradle catholic or married into it convert, it's just something they live and breath or don't really think about, but for a convert who comes to catholicism, from protestantism, then I think you'd need to understand that.  It's actually a part of catholic apologetics.

    And isn't protestantism, guided by/a return to judaism, really the "traditional"  source of revolution in the west.

    I mean, how can a unitarian church, for example, be seen as anything but judaizing.  A bunch of "christians" who decide they don't believe in the trinity anymore.  Sounds like Jєωs to me!  

    What's a de-evolved christian?  A Jєω or perhaps, a pagan.  But the real root, is Jєωs.  I mean, if you just obliterate Christ, then you sit around waiting for "the messiah" to come and of course, you're back to knowing what you should do, but it's "too hard," because you're a slave to "the law of sin."  You can't die with Christ and be reborn anymore, because you don't believe He's arrived yet.


    But Pluralism isnt Catholic.

    Being Americans - we have been raised on the myth - Once Again Dr Drolesky

    " The errors of pluralism divide people needlessly into warring camps as a permanently-established political class, composed of competing sets of naturalists, each of which believes that the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity in the Virginal and Immaculate Womb of His Most Blessed Mother by the power of God the Holy Ghost at the Annunciation is, at best, a matter of complete indifference to personal and social order. So many Americans live from election to election, always believing that "change," whether it be in the direction of "progress" for naturalists of the "left" or in the direction of "constitutionalism" or "liberty" or "limited government" for naturalists of the "right." Although divisions on some matters will always occur until the General Judgment of the Living and the Dead on the Last Day at the Second Coming of Our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, it is also true that men today have been needlessly divided about matters pertaining to First and Last Things, oblivious to the fact that they have been given a spotless mother, Holy Mother Church, to serve as their mater and magister (mother and teacher) in this passing, mortal vale of tears. Most men today believe that they are automatons, either independent of any concept of God or "free" from the "dictates" of a hierarchical church.

    Personal and social disaster cannot but be the result of such a brew of error. Men resort more and more to violence today because they do not know of the tender mercies of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus. They do not know that they have a Blessed Mother who made possible their salvation by her perfect fiat to the will of God the father at the Annunciation. They do not realize that the supernatural helps they need to overcome all sin in their lives and to pray for the conversion of those who are promoting evil in society flow through the loving hands of that same Blessed Mother, who gave the Rosary with her own blessed hands to Saint Dominic de Guzman so that we could be more closely united to her Divine Son, Christ the King, through the mysteries contained in her psalter, the Rosary.

    Most men today do not realize that there is nothing that any of us can suffer, whether personally or socially, that is equal of what one of our least Venial Sins caused Our Lord to suffer in His Sacred Humanity on the wood of the Holy Cross and that caused those Seven Swords to be thrust through and through the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary. They tend, therefore, to dwell on their own pain, whether real or imagined, and to stew in their own juices as they conjure up hatred for their fellow human beings, each of whom is made in the image and likeness of the Most Blessed Trinity and for whose salvation we must pray fervently as one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy.

    Living in a world that has been deprived of a superabundance of Sanctifying and Actual Graces as a result of the barren liturgical rites of the counterfeit church of conciliarism, most men today are "catechized" by television or the internet or what passes for "entertainment" in popular culture. They are tossed about from one thing to another without having any clear, coherent understanding of they identity as redeemed creatures and that each of us will have to make an accounting of our lives at the moment of our Particular Judgments. Men who lack the Catholic Faith, you see, must descend more and more into a coarseness of life and culture that produces a class of neo-barbarians who are not only at the gates but who are well inside of the fort of the city."





























    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 02:16:10 PM »
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  • "... Many had hoped that immigration from the Catholic countries of Latin America might reinforce traditional values.  That hope appears forlorn...
     .... Traditional values have been dying in Latin America as they have in the United States.  Though Mexico is nominally Catholic and restrictive on abortion, Mexican women now have more abortions than American women."  

    "The Myth of The Redemptive Hispanic," pg. 136, chapter four, "The End of White America," from the book, "ѕυιcιdє of a Superpower," by Patrick J. Buchanan.


    "Mexico’s 2006 abortion rate (33 per 1,000 women) was more than 40% higher than the abortion rate in the United States (19.4 per 1,000 women), where abortion is broadly legal and available."

    http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2009/02/02/index.html

    U.S. hispanics now have extremely high rates of illegitimate births (over 50%).

    As far as conservatism goes, they score higher than any other racial groups on a progressive cultural index, according to the center for american progress.

    Forget it.  Hispanics are not going to save American morality.  They have become part of the problem.


    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 02:39:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Malleus 01


    But Pluralism isnt Catholic.

    Being Americans - we have been raised on the myth -


    What do you think religious pluralism has to do with this topic?  You should be able to answer that question in your own words.  If you aren't, you should try anyway and in the process develop a new communication skill.  

    Here's a reference for you to help you understand the various usages of the term religious pluralism in the west

    THE DIVERSITY OF THE MEANING OF THE TERM "RELIGIOUS PLURALISM"

    Quotes showing different meanings of "religious pluralism"

       It means religious inclusivism: "... the worldview according to which one's religion is not the sole and exclusive source of truth, and thus that at least some truths and true values exist in other religions." 18
     
       It means religious tolerance: "... the condition of harmonious co-existence between adherents of different religions or religious denominations. 18
     
       It means religious ecuмenism."... the promotion of some level of unity, co-operation, and improved understanding between different religions or different denominations within a single religion. 18
     
       It means religious diversity: "... the fact that in a given society there exist a multiplicity of religions together." 19

    Is it any surprise that sincere folks from different religions -- or from different denominations within a single religion -- have communication difficulties when attempting dialogue.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_plur1.htm



    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 05:02:15 PM »
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  • Marcelino, you should never link to that site.

    Offline Malleus 01

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    « Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 05:05:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marcelino
    "... Many had hoped that immigration from the Catholic countries of Latin America might reinforce traditional values.  That hope appears forlorn...
     .... Traditional values have been dying in Latin America as they have in the United States.  Though Mexico is nominally Catholic and restrictive on abortion, Mexican women now have more abortions than American women."  

    "The Myth of The Redemptive Hispanic," pg. 136, chapter four, "The End of White America," from the book, "ѕυιcιdє of a Superpower," by Patrick J. Buchanan.


    "Mexico’s 2006 abortion rate (33 per 1,000 women) was more than 40% higher than the abortion rate in the United States (19.4 per 1,000 women), where abortion is broadly legal and available."

    http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2009/02/02/index.html

    U.S. hispanics now have extremely high rates of illegitimate births (over 50%).

    As far as conservatism goes, they score higher than any other racial groups on a progressive cultural index, according to the center for american progress.

    Forget it.  Hispanics are not going to save American morality.  They have become part of the problem.



    But the problem doesnt lie with the Fact that Mexico was once Catholic - it lies with the Advance of Progressivism. Europe and America is the source.  It isnt racially motivated. US Hispanics have Issues not because they were once Catholic - but rather because that have been corrupted. That is a sign of the times in which we live - not to mention that Hell isnt Preached from the pulpit in the Novus Ordo any longer.

    The rise of the Novus Ordo is more to blame IMO

    Offline catherineofsiena

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    « Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 05:09:38 PM »
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  • If there is one thing the coming regularization has made clear it is that we have two completely different, competing religions - pre VII and modernism.  Sister Lucia was right.  We can't sit on the fence anymore.  We have to choose a side.
    For it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be dispersed. Matthew 26:31

    Offline Marcelino

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    « Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 07:10:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Marcelino, you should never link to that site.


    Why not?