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Author Topic: For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"  (Read 4558 times)

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Offline Jim

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For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
« on: December 06, 2011, 07:14:29 PM »
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    • Cardinal Siri pledging allegiance to the Conciliar Popes


    One variant of the sede-vacantists is the so-called 'sede-impeditist' current, which defends the thesis that Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was elected pope at the conclave of 1958 and took the name of Gregory XVII. According to this current, Siri was obliged to renounce the title and Angelo Roncalli was elected in his place. The Popes who ascended to the Roman Pontificate after this election would be nothing but usurpers. Hence the followers of this theory consider them anti-popes and treat them as such.

    Afterwards, Siri would have lived his whole life in a terrible oppression and persecution by the 'anti-popes,' his enemies. The theory continues, pretending that at his death, Gregory XVII named his successor, whose name is not known to the public...

    To show the lack of reality upon which this theory is based, we post here some photos showing how joyfully and amicably Card. Giuseppe Siri dealt with the conciliar Popes.

    Above at left, we see him in close and friendly conversation with John XXIII, at one of the general meetings of the Italian Bishops; at right, he appears smiling in a shot with the Pope and Cardinal Lercaro. Below first row, Card. Siri and Paul VI exchange cordialities on two different occasions. Second row, Siri is on his knees pledging allegiance to John Paul I after his election; third row left, he pledges allegiance to John Paul II after his election; right, at the end of his life he was still very cordial when meeting the same Pope.

    We believe that no serious person can consider these attitudes of Card. Siri as those of a prisoner kidnapped from his pontificate and deprived of it by force or some strong moral pressure. Instead, the photos show the normal activities of the Archbishop of Genoa, accepting without any difficulty the validity of the conciliar Popes as his normal superiors.


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    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 07:17:44 PM »
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    • Giuseppe Card. Siri pictured with John XXIII (Angelo Roncalli)

    One can also see the future Paul VI (Giovanni Battista Montini) to Siri's left.

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    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 07:19:20 PM »
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    • Here, Cardinal Siri meets with Paul VI, pledges allegiance to both John Paul I and John Paul II, and meets with John Paul II.

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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #3 on: December 06, 2011, 07:21:01 PM »
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    • Such actions would seem to present a snag, to say the least...

    Don't expect an answer (that makes sense)...
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    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #4 on: December 06, 2011, 07:26:47 PM »
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    • Gladius,

    Have you ever seen a picture of Abp. Lefebvre with any post-concilliar pope besides John XXIII?
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    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #5 on: December 06, 2011, 07:39:57 PM »
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    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #6 on: December 06, 2011, 07:45:11 PM »
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    • By all means, none of this is against the person of Cardinal Siri himself. May he rest in peace. Rather, I post these pictures against the Siri thesis.

    How I wish the His Eminence ascended to the Holy See after the death of Pope Pius XII (of blessed memory. May he also rest in peace.) Would that it were that Pope Pius XII named Cardinal Siri as his successor.

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    Offline roscoe

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #7 on: December 06, 2011, 08:19:55 PM »
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    • I have never said that he was a good Pope but he is at least better than Leo X, Clem VII, Urban VI or Alex VI. His election appears legal to me and any abdication would therefore not be. This is for a future Council to decide.  
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #8 on: December 06, 2011, 08:23:34 PM »
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    • If Siri knew he was  the pope, how could he have submitted to other putative popes and given credence to their claims to the papacy by his public acts of submission to them?



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    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #9 on: December 06, 2011, 08:54:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: roscoe
    I have never said that he was a good Pope but he is at least better than Leo X, Clem VII, Urban VI or Alex VI. His election appears legal to me and any abdication would therefore not be. This is for a future Council to decide.  


    Same answer as last time, I see... :detective:
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    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #10 on: December 06, 2011, 08:57:28 PM »
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    • Even if Siri was validly elected, the acts of denying it several times, publicly celebrating the NO and submitting to Vatican II really doesn't help his legacy.
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    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Jim

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #11 on: December 06, 2011, 09:00:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    Even if Siri was validly elected, the acts of denying it several times, publicly celebrating the NO and submitting to Vatican II really doesn't help his legacy.


    It does remind me a bit of the Jacobites. Except, the old and young pretenders fought for the throne.

    I decided I'm not going to hash out my old arguments against this thesis.
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    Offline roscoe

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 09:33:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    If Siri knew he was  the pope, how could he have submitted to other putative popes and given credence to their claims to the papacy by his public acts of submission to them?




    I have already answered this.
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 09:35:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jim
    Quote from: roscoe
    I have never said that he was a good Pope but he is at least better than Leo X, Clem VII, Urban VI or Alex VI. His election appears legal to me and any abdication would therefore not be. This is for a future Council to decide.  


    Same answer as last time, I see... :detective:
    :fryingpan:
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    For Roscoe, on the "Siri Thesis"
    « Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 09:41:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: roscoe
    Quote from: Roman Catholic
    If Siri knew he was  the pope, how could he have submitted to other putative popes and given credence to their claims to the papacy by his public acts of submission to them?




    I have already answered this.


    But your pathetic answer did not achieve anything.

    The question was  a rhetorical one at large, and not directed specifically to you.
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