It has been brought to my attention that Vox has been publicly bashing CathInfo:

Quote from: Dr Bombay

Yes, I will pray it doesn't happen again.  I was forced to lurk Cath Info.  What a bunch of misogynistic, Jєω-baiting, tin foil hatters.  It's what Trad Catholicism would be if it were populated exclusively by 6th grade boys.  Awful.

It's nice to be on a forum with people that have past times other than collecting clods of dirt and looking down their noses at fancy book lernin.  Cath MIS-Info they should call themselves.  Hmmm.  I might suggest that to the owner.  

LOL  Ya know, I have a general policy of not allowing a lot of talk about other forums, but they're so mean to Quis and me and say such WEIRD, untrue things about both of us that I'm letting this slide. Your description is pretty apt. Whew! It seems like all of FE's "rejects" go there and , uh, commence to calumniatin', as Jethro'd put it. And the the things they did that got them banned from here get reinforced there, and it all snowballs into a sort of freakshow.  It's kinda scary, really.

OK, I'm gonna stop before I start doing the detraction thing.

I'm disappointed in you, Vox.

Quis came over here once, and he was being pretty nice. I decided to be nice as well. But now it seems that Quis is gone, and Vox is made of different "stuff".

I haven't seen any weird or untrue things said about Vox on here. I've heard a few conversations about her soap-opera personal life, including a divorce and a civil marriage to another man (Quis) who also recently divorced. They made their relationship public, but never publicly mentioned an annulment on either side. What are we to think?

Scandal is scandal. You don't blame innocent Catholics for being scandalized at something scandalous.

I was there when Vox made the big announcement -- many people asked, "Why did she bring it up publicly in the first place?" and that's a very good question.

What is "scary" to me is the pseudo-traditional Catholic freakshow you have going on at Fisheaters. Like Frankenstein's monster, you have traditional trappings mixing with worldliness, banality, and secular culture -- and sometimes outright error such as feminism.

I'm speaking of several key members. I know there are hundreds of quieter members, and hundreds of lurkers. Any forum the size of Fisheaters can't be spoken of like a single person -- one can only make "broad generalizations". Same with CathInfo. So there are plenty of exceptions -- heck, we get all kinds of Fisheaters coming here (often after they're banned, or have a bad experience there) and they do just fine.

But it would also be a mistake to ignore the "general vibe" or dominant culture that pervades a given forum.

It would be like saying "You can't criticize America -- I've met a few hundred great traditional Catholics in my day!" Oh yeah? What about the other 299,999,700 citizens of this country?

Incidentally, this is why I try to stay on a "philosophical level" when criticizing large groups. If you want to apply my generalizations to individuals, then go ahead. But it's not with my stamp of approval. I might have said "Fisheaters is generally worldly" but I never said "The member ________ is worldly."

Just for starters, judging individuals is much more difficult, and prone to error.

Before anyone gets upset at the comments made here about us, lets take a moment and thank God for the insults.  

I know I am someone who is far, far, from perfect. And while it would be instinctive for me to lash back, I don't think that's the right thing, though I've done it in the past. I know that I'm trying the best I can in this world, even if I can be called a "tin-foil hat wearing Jєω-hater who wants my women pregnant in the kitchen". Of course, I know that's not true and I know that all I do I do for God and with Him in mind and that it is by His grace, that we can be called such names. Heck, I might have been one of those people at the Fisheaters forum if it wasn't for a work block when I decided to join a trad forum. I'm still glad I'm here (despite my overreaction to the Anonymous Forum issue recently *cough cough* lol ); I think its better here.

We can either focus on these negative comments, or thank God that he's placed us where we're at in our lives. Lets pray for these FE members, that together, we can all obtain heaven.

Thank you Matthew for your maturity in this matter too.

Just for starters, judging individuals is much more difficult, and prone to error.

This is a fair statement. I don't mind people saying "Fisheaters has problems because ...." (and they could then point to one of the many threads devoted to rock music, modesty, etc.), but I really do dislike it when particular forum members are singled out by name. As you said, it is often very hard to judge individuals, especially when all one is going on is internet postings. I don't subscribe to the view that people shouldn't be responsible for what they post on a public forum, but to label and pass judgement on them without knowing their background seems irresponsible to me.

For myself, I used to really enjoy Fisheaters. I remember discovering it shortly after I found the TLM, when it was called Apologia (if I remember correctly). There were a lot of really interesting discussions, and I have fond memories of many former members ... LumenGentleman, DominusTecuм (Eric), AdoremusTeChriste, TradCatholicMom (I think that was her name) and even you and MaterDominici, Matthew, among others. Those were the days when those who posted appeared to want to strive hard to hold themselves to a higher standard.

I stopped reading at the forum after the "marriage" fiasco. It just seemed so wrong to me, and I know that many very good members also left at that time. There was another forum started (forget the name) that was moderated by Eric, but it appears to be gone now.

"Dr" Bombay's insipid ramblings on Fisheaters are a waste of 1's and 0's. The fact that Cathinfo is drawing his ire is a feather in our collective cap.

This isn't the first time Vox has allowed criticisms of CatholicInfo on FE. After aquinasg was banned from here, he went over there and started a thread announcing he had been banned from here, and a few people harshly criticized this forum.

I like s2srea's post though, and totally agree with it.

Never mind. I'm walking away.

There are so many threads here about FE that I find it hard to believe that the first time I see Vox say something negative about CI, she gets an "I'm disappointed in you" thread. It really comes off strange. I enjoy different elements of both places so this isn't about preferences. But THIS forum has a say-anything-nasty-about-FE-because-it-"needs"-to-be-discussed policy, so you would think that that "tolerance" would go both ways. CI can discuss them but they can't discuss you? I didn't like her post, I thought it was condescending and unfair but neither do I like many FE posts here either for the same reason. Like it or not, many of both places are in the same boat on this one.

Having said that, I miss old FE too. I didn't even know it, but from the way people describe it I think I would miss it. I think there are still elements of it in the more serious areas like theology and philisophy.

On the face of it from that perspective it would appear so.

But....I believe this site is not as censored and stringent as FE in order to allow discussions to run their course freely and openly as they may. And that's on practically all discussions, not just on FE or any other forums, speaking of which, I've seen FE posters bash Catholic Answers and other trad forums pretty consistent over there and never really seen Vox come down too hard on anyone for it, granted she she stated that she doesn't like it, but it goes on there just as well. CI was never really in their sights until recently when this forum was starting to get their refugees due in part to tech problems over there amongst other things.

Also, it seems FE posters like to come lurk over here and go back and scandalize members or this forum as some kind of "freakshow" but the opposite never rarely if ever occurs. And I have yet to see the forum owner here pile on when there's any kind of negative talk of FE, I think he expects the same from Vox as well.

You are correct about the old FE and what it once was.

Sorry. I have to say that the sheepish tone of this thread on behalf of some CI posters is making me sick.

Do you realize this entire topic is all being analyzed on a teenage level. This is the level at which a majority of the FE crowd operates. This is the level they want US to operate on and which all liberals operate on. Because if we do, they win.

The tactic goes like this:


She said something "mean" about us.

Yeah, well he said something "mean" about her.

Your website was "meaner" to her.

No, your website was "meaner". You were "mean" 25 times, I was only "mean" 20 times.

Ok we were both "mean" and sinned horribly. Let's say we were both wrong, hold hands, and skip together.

Whew! You are right. Conflict is from the devil. I feel warm and fuzzy!  Let's sing. :guitar:



Please don't play this game. The key is WHAT was said about the other forum.

The criticism of FE on CI was based, in large part on facts, logic, the Faith, common sense.

The criticism of CI on FE is, in large part, based on name-calling, mockery, and emotion.

The FE mods' public relationship was a public fact that could be rightly criticized as it applies to the Church's moral teaching. The philosophical and theological and moral positions of the FE owner and her sychophants can be rightly dissected and criticized as compared to Catholic Tradition. The entire atmosphere of the FE forum, complete with immodest pictures and videos, praise of modern culture, immature posts is up for legitimate criticisms.

What is the criticism of CI by the Fishies? That we're a bunch of kooks, nuts, tin-foil hatters, bigots, racists, homophobes, freaks, losers, "rejects", puritans, misogynists, and haters. That we are "mean-spirited", "angry", "intolerant", rash, stupid, knuckle-draggers, etc. etc.

The very substance of their criticisms of us prove the very point we're trying to make. That they are a bunch of liberals! This is straight out the liberal playbook. Mock, ridicule, slander, intimidate your opponent into shutting up, and if he doesn't, then "ban" him. Silence him at any cost. The left cannot stand dissent. They stamp it out.

There is nothing "mean" about pointing out the obvious contradictions at FE compared to Tradition or discussing said contradictions. What is "mean" and reprehensible is having the audacity to run a Traditional Catholic website while you publicly announce you, the site owners, are proudly going to be entering into a morally illicit relationship. Then, when you get justly criticized for it, you play the victim and demonize your enemies as "haters", "mean-spirited", "obsessed with sex", "perverts", "judgers."

It is like they followed the Clinton playbook to a tee. He was caught perjuring himself, intimidating witnesses, having sex with an intern, lying to the public. Yet, he and his minions effectively demonized every one of his conservative critics, made himself into a victim of a "witch-hunt" and paid private investigators to dig up dirt on those impeaching him to intimidate and silence them. These are liberal tactics 101.

Don't fall for their schtick. Use your brain! They will use any means to silence you: intimidation, banning, name calling, ridicule, emotional manipulation, guilt, God, twisting the Faith, you name it. Don't play their game. Stick to the facts, stand up for the truth, be relentless, be heard, fight back.