Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Matthew on February 07, 2010, 10:17:51 PM
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CathInfo has a new cardinal rule:
You may not post on CathInfo as an "outsider", or visit CathInfo as as "missionary". We are not a group of hell-bound heretics waiting for you to convert us with your bitter arguments and denunciations.
The majority of CathInfo is populated by Catholics (defined here as: members of Christ's Mystical Body; members of the Catholic Church -- possessing the One True Faith)
If you can't accept that premise, you are no longer welcome here.
You need not agree with everyone (or even most people) here, and you are free to disagree with the moderator. However, you have to consider most CathInfo members as your "fellow Catholics" -- you may strongly disagree with some of them, but you have to have enough humility to "live and let live" and "agree to disagree".
No one here can read hearts, or has a legitimate need to judge (as God does) the souls here on CathInfo.
There is a Crisis in the Church of unprecedented scale. If you disagree with this, you might as well leave now since you clearly don't belong on a Traditional Catholic forum.
But if there is a Crisis of that nature, and there is no manual around that EVERYONE could understand as to "what a Catholic should do" in such a situation, it follows that we must give our fellow Catholics the benefit of the doubt.
Calling them heretics clearly denies them that courtesy!
This applies to everyone it applies to: you know who you are. Consider this your warning. CathInfo is your missionary field no longer. Find another heathen land to convert.
In Christ,
Matthew
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Only a heretic would say that.
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Only a heretic would say that.
:confused1: Care to elaborate?
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Only a heretic would say that.
You're a heretic for even suggesting that he's a heretic!
Begone! :heretic:
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Only a heretic would say that.
:confused1: Care to elaborate?
You must be another heretic, otherwise why would you ask for explanations from a known heretic?
Begone with you, too! :heretic:
Hey, this is fun! Too bad I'm running out of matches...
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Only notorious, hell-bound heretics use emoticons.
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Only a heretic would say that.
:confused1: Care to elaborate?
You must be another heretic, otherwise why would you ask for explanations from a known heretic?
Begone with you, too! :heretic:
Ah, yes. Well, you better run fast or you might catch it too. :jumping2:
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Only notorious, hell-bound heretics use emoticons.
With the exception of the heretic-burning emoticon!
The fact that you didn't know that means... :heretic:
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blasted...you caught me....I hearby abjure all of my heresies.
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blasted...you caught me....I hearby abjure all of my heresies.
You can't abjure them because you are bad-willed!
I can't even pray for your conversion because I would be sinning by praying for a bad-willed heretic.
Then I would have to abjure my own heresy of believing my prayers for a heretic to be effective.
Except that I can't abjure to anyone because I've never met anyone who was not a heretic.
Therefore I condemn you for confessing your error, which incited me to commit a heresy by praying for your repentance and conversion.
I also ask you not to pray for me because then you would be putting me in communion with you, a confessed heretic, making me guilty of the same heresy, which I am unable to abjure or confess, due to the fact that I have no one to confess or abjure to, who is not a heretic.
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However, you have to consider CathInfo members your "fellow Catholics" -- you may strongly disagree with some of them, but you have to have enough humility to "live and let live" and "agree to disagree".
Cannot undersign. I consider some of them my fellow Catholics, all the rest my potential fellow Catholics who are a step or two removed from Catholicity, and all worthy of charity. That's the best I can do.
Are you saying no missionary activity is allowed, Matthew, that we cannot argue about the right position to hold? Or are you just saying that we can't call each other heretics? I can deal with the latter, not the former.
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Only a heretic would say that.
:confused1: Care to elaborate?
You must be another heretic, otherwise why would you ask for explanations from a known heretic?
Begone with you, too! :heretic:
MaterDominici cannot be "begone" because she is the wife of Matthew, the moderator of this forum. :fryingpan:
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They are indulging in some ribbing of Feeneyites, Alex.
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They are indulging in some ribbing of Feeneyites, Alex.
Oh...heehee.
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blasted...you caught me....I hearby abjure all of my heresies.
You can't abjure them because you are bad-willed!
I can't even pray for your conversion because I would be sinning by praying for a bad-willed heretic.
Then I would have to abjure my own heresy of believing my prayers for a heretic to be effective.
Except that I can't abjure to anyone because I've never met anyone who was not a heretic.
Therefore I condemn you for confessing your error, which incited me to commit a heresy by praying for your repentance and conversion.
I also ask you not to pray for me because then you would be putting me in communion with you, a confessed heretic, making me guilty of the same heresy, which I am unable to abjure or confess, due to the fact that I have no one to confess or abjure to, who is not a heretic.
That brilliantly and concisely sums up the last three weeks on Cathinfo.com. Well done!
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However, you have to consider CathInfo members your "fellow Catholics" -- you may strongly disagree with some of them, but you have to have enough humility to "live and let live" and "agree to disagree".
Cannot undersign. I consider some of them my fellow Catholics, all the rest my potential fellow Catholics who are a step or two removed from Catholicity, and all worthy of charity. That's the best I can do.
Are you saying no missionary activity is allowed, Matthew, that we cannot argue about the right position to hold? Or are you just saying that we can't call each other heretics? I can deal with the latter, not the former.
A dog with a bone.
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Matthew said
"No one here can read hearts, or has a legitimate need to judge (as God does) the souls here on CathInfo."
Thank You for trying to calm down the name calling.
I think so many that come here (members or not) are like me just looking for direction in these troubled times.
I am 70+ and no matter how many times I read some of these long arguments my mind just can't grasp what exactly being said! I would like to see more "to the point answers" and not so much name calling.
Just my thoughts.
May the Holy Spirit guide us through these trying days!
Joan
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blasted...you caught me....I hearby abjure all of my heresies.
You can't abjure them because you are bad-willed!
I can't even pray for your conversion because I would be sinning by praying for a bad-willed heretic.
Then I would have to abjure my own heresy of believing my prayers for a heretic to be effective.
Except that I can't abjure to anyone because I've never met anyone who was not a heretic.
Therefore I condemn you for confessing your error, which incited me to commit a heresy by praying for your repentance and conversion.
I also ask you not to pray for me because then you would be putting me in communion with you, a confessed heretic, making me guilty of the same heresy, which I am unable to abjure or confess, due to the fact that I have no one to confess or abjure to, who is not a heretic.
That brilliantly and concisely sums up the last three weeks on Cathinfo.com. Well done!
:roll-laugh1: Yup... that's about it!
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I think cm an fkpagnanelli are crazy. I agree that the calling of people heretics needs to stop. I just don't want this forum to become another angelqueen. Members on the forum know that I don't bring up sede debate issues as I have no need to discuss them. I prefer to discuss the economic and social realities affecting us.
Andy
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However, you have to consider CathInfo members your "fellow Catholics" -- you may strongly disagree with some of them, but you have to have enough humility to "live and let live" and "agree to disagree".
Cannot undersign. I consider some of them my fellow Catholics, all the rest my potential fellow Catholics who are a step or two removed from Catholicity, and all worthy of charity. That's the best I can do.
Well, I think one thing that people need to remind themselves of, is that Catholics as a whole are not infallible. (And only the Pope when he actually chooses to make use of that means, but... that's another topic.) This means that within the body of the Church, there are people who sincerely mean to be Catholic, and who sincerely want to do the right thing, but maybe they get a hold of the wrong literature, adopt some not-so-good ideas, and end up taking a position that isn't really Catholic.
In this sense, I believe it is possible that people who are Catholic to hold positions of error (unwittingly). Even if you slap them in the face with the truth, or the proofs of the true position, if they cannot see it, understand it or think there's some deeper problem... Only God can sort out where their heart is. But right now, we have pretty much no authority in the Church not touched by this modernism, who can come out and tell people "hey, that's in error," and who people will listen to. Many people don't even know who the real authorities are (given the scandalous positions held by some churchmen today)!
Read up on the normal methods of excommunication. If I remember correctly... I THINK that it basically says that the person should be warned of their error by the authorities in the Church (not really happening today), have the truth given to them, and then if they knowingly reject the true position of God's True Church...
But what are Catholics getting today? If the authorities are condemning everyone for not embracing Vatican II liberalism... you don't exactly have that normal, infallibly-backed guidance from the top down going on right now. That leaves all of the (usually well-meaning Catholics) lost at sea, grabbing onto whatever explanation they think is the right one.
Even the people (the laity, at least) following the novus ordo are, for the most part, I think, just thinking that this is what Rome says, so this is what they must do. God is going to judge those people upon what was in their minds and hearts that made them choose badly. We can't do that. So as long as people in their minds and hearts mean to be within the One, True Church, and are doing what they believe sincerely to be their best to do that... I don't see how we can condemn them without the proper authorities pointing out the actual truth of the matter to these people and correcting them.
I believe someone I know once remarked something along the lines that this mess won't be sorted out by anything less than a second (albeit un-bloody) inquisition. I'm inclined to agree. Once we get a 100% traditional-minded Pope back in the seat of St. Peter, it's only going to be the beginning. He then must sort out this mess, and then tell the people that it has been sorted out, and what the real, true, solidly Catholic position is, and that everyone else is simply wrong. But how will we ever know again who is holding the one, true Faith, unless the authorities took some special step to do prove them? (Eg, a new creed, some kind of oath or agreement in writing or something...)
Anyhow, that's why I have no problem calling even novus ordo Catholics, "Catholics" ... because... for the most part, these people are just confused, and doing what they THINK is the right, Catholic thing to do. WE may see how bad it is... but if you've grown up in it, it's all you know. Tradition is foreign to some of these people. Only God and a solidly traditional Pope can sort this mess out.
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I agree that the calling of people heretics needs to stop. I just don't want this forum to become another angelqueen... I prefer to discuss the economic and social realities affecting us.
Yeah... I know I've more or less heckled this board as a whole sometimes because of this. MOST of us have pretty much found what we think is the true position, and are holding onto it to the death, so... what good is all of the name calling, condemnations, public smear campaigns and what have you, going to do?
I had always lamented since the founding of this board, that it wasn't a place where people were discussing other issues... that it had become more or less a pitted and scarred battlefield of the sedevacantism issue, wherein just about the only thing you CAN hear on it is the whistling cannonballs from both sides.
Right now both Church and world are in crisis. There is a LOT going on out there that concerns all of us, such as what is happening to our country, or even everyday life as a Catholic, alternatives to the worldly life and living the world tries constantly to foist upon us by this death culture, and encouragement to good and virtue we could be giving one another. There is so much every person here must know and have to offer... and yet we've been stuck since day one, it seems, on whether or not every one of us is sedevacantist.
We've lost a LOT of time on this vicious debate already, which would perhaps be fine if anyone was willing to change their minds. Unfortunately, most people are not, so it's pointless.
The truth has a way of coming out eventually. This mess will be cleared up eventually. So for now, I think we would all be better served by sharing something better and more helpful than anathemas and nifty insults, and perhaps making this place finally a more social and friendly atmosphere that can give us additional support us as we carry the heavy cross of trying to live as traditional Catholics in this messed up, increasingly ungodly world.
Those who are searching sincerely for the truth will find it. And even those who aren't are usually proven wrong at some point. It's a vitally important issue, yes... but if everyone is decided and the door is slammed shut... you're just spewing hatred or wasting your time to keep pounding on it. This is one door the Good Lord Himself will have to open for all of us. There's a place on this forum already for those who want to keep trying, or for those who still are undecided, but... I've always lamented that the topic seemed to grow like weeds in every other corner of it, until the whole thing was seized up with the issue.
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I agree that the calling of people heretics needs to stop. I just don't want this forum to become another angelqueen... I prefer to discuss the economic and social realities affecting us.
Yeah... I know I've more or less heckled this board as a whole sometimes because of this. MOST of us have pretty much found what we think is the true position, and are holding onto it to the death, so... what good is all of the name calling, condemnations, public smear campaigns and what have you, going to do?
I had always lamented since the founding of this board, that it wasn't a place where people were discussing other issues... that it had become more or less a pitted and scarred battlefield of the sedevacantism issue, wherein just about the only thing you CAN hear on it is the whistling cannonballs from both sides.
Right now both Church and world are in crisis. There is a LOT going on out there that concerns all of us, such as what is happening to our country, or even everyday life as a Catholic, alternatives to the worldly life and living the world tries constantly to foist upon us by this death culture, and encouragement to good and virtue we could be giving one another. There is so much every person here must know and have to offer... and yet we've been stuck since day one, it seems, on whether or not every one of us is sedevacantist.
We've lost a LOT of time on this vicious debate already, which would perhaps be fine if anyone was willing to change their minds. Unfortunately, most people are not, so it's pointless.
The truth has a way of coming out eventually. This mess will be cleared up eventually. So for now, I think we would all be better served by sharing something better and more helpful than anathemas and nifty insults, and perhaps making this place finally a more social and friendly atmosphere that can give us additional support us as we carry the heavy cross of trying to live as traditional Catholics in this messed up, increasingly ungodly world.
Those who are searching sincerely for the truth will find it. And even those who aren't are usually proven wrong at some point. It's a vitally important issue, yes... but if everyone is decided and the door is slammed shut... you're just spewing hatred or wasting your time to keep pounding on it. This is one door the Good Lord Himself will have to open for all of us. There's a place on this forum already for those who want to keep trying, or for those who still are undecided, but... I've always lamented that the topic seemed to grow like weeds in every other corner of it, until the whole thing was seized up with the issue.
:applause: