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Author Topic: Feeneyism Destroyed  (Read 4900 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2019, 11:03:07 AM »
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    • I'm flabbergasted that you're not seeing the distinction.

    There is a transition here from being a non-Catholic to adhering to the Catholic faith, at the hour of death.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #16 on: August 10, 2019, 11:04:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on August 10, 2019, 09:53:01 AM
    If God is "creating souls just to damn them" by creating the invincibly ignorant, then how is He not doing so when he creates a baby who gets aborted or otherwise dies before/without baptism? There is no way around that. If believing that those who die invincibly ignorant cannot achieve the beatific vision is Calvinist or Jansenistic, then believing that unbaptised babies can't achieve it either would also be. It's hypocritical and contradictory to assert otherwise.
    Seán is still ignoring this point, as he has done in multiple threads over the course of the last week.
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    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #17 on: August 10, 2019, 11:13:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on August 10, 2019, 11:02:17 AM
    You said an angel or preacher would be sent to them by God. Why would the angel or the preacher not baptise them?
    An angel can not baptise. 
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #18 on: August 10, 2019, 11:14:22 AM »
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    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #19 on: August 10, 2019, 11:14:40 AM »
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    • This is Fr. Muller’s rebuke of Feeneyite pride

    Q. Is it then right for us to say that one who was not received into the Church before his death, is damned?
    A. No.
    Q. Why not?
    A. Because we cannot know for certain what takes place between God and the soul at the awful moment of death.
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    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #20 on: August 10, 2019, 11:15:10 AM »
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #21 on: August 10, 2019, 11:17:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
    This is Fr. Muller’s rebuke of Feeneyite pride

    Q. Is it then right for us to say that one who was not received into the Church before his death, is damned?
    A. No.
    Q. Why not?
    A. Because we cannot know for certain what takes place between God and the soul at the awful moment of death.


    Quote
    "Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned."
    Pope St. Pius X

    The distinction you're missing is that we should not comment on whether or not INDIVIDUALS are damned, but Fr. Feeney didn't do that. He never said "Abdul Ibn Whatever specifically is damned", he said "Non-Catholics are damned." The former is wrong(but Fr. Feeney never did it), the latter we are REQUIRED to do by order of Pope St. Pius X.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #22 on: August 10, 2019, 11:19:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 11:15:10 AM
    An angel is immaterial
    All it has to be able to do is speak and pour some water on the convert's head. 
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    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #23 on: August 10, 2019, 11:23:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on August 10, 2019, 11:17:01 AM
    The distinction you're missing is that we should not comment on whether or not INDIVIDUALS are damned, but Fr. Feeney didn't do that. He never said "Abdul Ibn Whatever specifically is damned", he said "Non-Catholics are damned." The former is wrong(but Fr. Feeney never did it), the latter we are REQUIRED to do by order of Pope St. Pius X.
    From the Catechism of St. Pius X
    29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
    A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #24 on: August 10, 2019, 11:24:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 11:23:01 AM
    From the Catechism of St. Pius X
    29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
    A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation
    What's that got to do with what I said? You accused Fr. Feeney of arrogance for saying infidels are damned, I showed you proof that we are in fact REQUIRED to testify that infidels are damned. 
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    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #25 on: August 10, 2019, 11:29:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on August 10, 2019, 11:19:37 AM
    All it has to be able to do is speak and pour some water on the convert's head.
    An angel can’t pour water. If this were possible we would’ve seen it
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #26 on: August 10, 2019, 11:30:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Augustinus21 on August 10, 2019, 11:29:56 AM
    An angel can’t pour water. If this were possible we would’ve seen it
    Have you seen an angel convert someone either? I haven't. 
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #27 on: August 10, 2019, 11:33:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on August 10, 2019, 11:17:01 AM
    The distinction you're missing is that we should not comment on whether or not INDIVIDUALS are damned, but Fr. Feeney didn't do that. He never said "Abdul Ibn Whatever specifically is damned", he said "Non-Catholics are damned." The former is wrong(but Fr. Feeney never did it), the latter we are REQUIRED to do by order of Pope St. Pius X.

    I was about to post that.

    It's not registering to him that there is a change from adhering to a non-Catholic sect to now adhering to the Catholic faith.

    Quote
    Q. Is it then right for us to say that one who was not received into the Church before his death, is damned?

    The point being made is that we don't know if someone had a conversion at the hour of death. CONVERSION. Augustinus21, you're so focused on Baptism of Desire that you're missing the necessity of the Catholic faith. Fr. Mueller's position is akin to Baptism of Desire for catechumens.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Augustinus21

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #28 on: August 10, 2019, 11:36:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on August 10, 2019, 11:24:32 AM
    What's that got to do with what I said? You accused Fr. Feeney of arrogance for saying infidels are damned, I showed you proof that we are in fact REQUIRED to testify that infidels are damned.
    If what you’re saying is that infidels  who die infidels are damned, then there’s no disagreement here. All I’m saying is that a naturally virtuous infidel will receive a chance to accept the Faith from God at the moment of death. If he accepts the Faith, he will certainly be saved, even without water Baptism. Fr. Feeney would disagree with that 
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Feeneyism Destroyed
    « Reply #29 on: August 10, 2019, 11:36:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2019, 07:12:31 AM
    https://novusordowatch.org/2019/04/father-leonard-feeney-justification-salvation/

    Justification and Salvation: What did Fr. Leonard Feeney teach?
    April 24, 2019



    Sean,

    You are so mischievous.  



    You know this topic is verboten under Cathinfo's open categories.

    It is to be placed in the "Father Feeney Ghetto" category Matthew so graciously made for us.

    Why, if you don't remove it, I'll counter you with a fusillade of evidence on +ABL's theology of four Baptisms, which supports Karl Rahner's heresy of universal salvation.

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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi
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