Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Computers, Technology, Websites => Topic started by: St Magnus on September 22, 2013, 12:39:43 PM

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 22, 2013, 12:39:43 PM
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.0.html

Unbelievable. Jayne is playing games. 'I don't want to be a mod. I'd be a bad choice. Then again I wouldn't refuse if asked" (paraphrasing)

She's licking her chops at the notion of power to ban trads and suppress the truth about the crisis.

The tranny is back and has publicly denied dogmas and doctrine and proudly accepts the title heretic. All the while promoting sɛҳuąƖ deviance and hurling bible verses at the few Roman Catholics left there.

Vox doesn't get it. She banned a catholic answers charismatic movement promoter that Jayne invited and then reversed the decision. The guy questioned Vox's integrity in a very insulting manner. I'm sure Jayne begged him back.

So there are about 6 of these members, including Jayne and the tranny, who have been emboldened by Vox's protection of them. Any of them can damn a trad to hell or promote modernist-like agendas, but a trad dare not speak to bluntly in a reply to them. The trad will be accuses of being mean, nasty, or worse.

So here she is wanting donations to increase. One one hand the main site is one of, if not the best one stop collection of orthodox Catholic material. But moving to the forum, we are now seeing a trad forum crumble under the weight of a full out assault of the few trads left there by liberals. I suppose we can't blame these neocats for striking while the iron is hot. Vox did open the doors.

Anyhow, this current cry for help from Vox is troubling. She is on a "I want my forum to represent trads in a positive light " kick, but allows Jayne to tell trads they are wrong to display anything but blind obedience to modernist teaching and errors.

Don't dare question the pope's ambiguous statements on FE Trad forum. Not these days. The neocats don't like it.


/rant
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 22, 2013, 12:47:40 PM
Sounds like the new SSPX.

Anyone who supports the neo-SSPX should have no problem with Fisheaters.

Vox has always been all about giving a "good impression about Trads" to the newbies, even as far back as 2006. I don't think she'd even disagree with that.

Which sounds good and all, but what about doctrine? What about morality? What about dangers to the Faith? One can go too far in censoring the "controversial" stuff, to the point that the very truth and important topics are squelched.

Thank you for posting a link -- so much better than just posting an assertion without any basis or proof.

Because from now on, I want to see PROOF or at least something CONCRETE like QUOTES when anything is alleged about another individual or forum.

CathInfo is not a rumor mill, or an axe grinding forum. It's also not a drama queen whoring for attention in some kind of "forum soap opera".

If someone comes on here and says that Fr. Rostand is against the Resistance, I'm going to have to ask for proof (which shouldn't be a problem of course!)

 :wink:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 22, 2013, 12:50:53 PM
I saw all of that.  Vox just can't stand the "nastiness" anymore.  The posters over there (including myself who was banned for "general rudeness") are not nasty by and large.    
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 22, 2013, 12:55:15 PM
Quote from: Matthew
Sounds like the new SSPX.

Anyone who supports the neo-SSPX should have no problem with Fisheaters.

Vox has always been all about giving a "good impression about Trads" to the newbies, even as far back as 2006. I don't think she'd even disagree with that.

Which sounds good and all, but what about doctrine? What about morality? What about dangers to the Faith? One can go too far in censoring the "controversial" stuff, to the point that the very truth and important topics are squelched.

Thank you for posting a link -- so much better than just posting an assertion without any basis or proof.

Because from now on, I want to see PROOF and QUOTES about anything alleged about another individual or forum.

CathInfo is not a rumor mill, or an axe grinding forum. It's also not a drama queen whoring for attention in some kind of "forum soap opera".

If someone comes on here and says that Fr. Rostand is against the Resistance, I'm going to have to ask for proof (which shouldn't be a problem of course!)

 :wink:


Fair enough.

And thanks for being a level headed owner of a trad forum. Seems to be a shortage of such imo.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 22, 2013, 12:56:10 PM
We should pray a novena that it does.  Seriously.  People will say that the main site (not the forum) the site is 'invaluable' but all the information on the FE main site can be found elsewhere, the only benefit is that it is well-organized.  So if the main site goes with the forum, so be it.  That place is a living, breathing scandal.  It only reinforces the modernist tendencies and neo-Catholic sentiments that exist among so many self described 'traditional' Catholics.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 22, 2013, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
I saw all of that.  Vox just can't stand the "nastiness" anymore.  The posters over there (including myself who was banned for "general rudeness") are not nasty by and large.    


Of course they aren't unless baited by the neocats.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 22, 2013, 01:02:09 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
I saw all of that.  Vox just can't stand the "nastiness" anymore.  The posters over there (including myself who was banned for "general rudeness") are not nasty by and large.    


Of course they aren't unless baited by the neocats.


True.  Or when some always blame the media.  Oh that annoyed the crap out of me over there.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 22, 2013, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
I saw all of that.  Vox just can't stand the "nastiness" anymore.  The posters over there (including myself who was banned for "general rudeness") are not nasty by and large.    


You are probably right.

Speaking of which, I'd like to bring up something that's been bothering me. I'd like to honestly consider the charge that FE is liberal and/or "all bad".
I mean, how can you make such a broad generalizations about a forum of hundreds or thousands of people?

Sorry, there is no such thing.

How can you summarize -- to any meaningful degree -- a group of hundreds or even thousands of young men and women, middle aged men and women, older men and women, OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE -- single, married, rich, poor, educated, not-so-educated...

How can you paint with a brush that broad? If you dab the ground with it, you'll be able to see the dot from space!

Let's look into it here...

I know people like to call FE "liberal" and maybe they're right -- at least to a point. I know there's at least a very vocal minority that defends outrageous things like a transsɛҳuąƖ man going by "she". Or cohabitation. There's no denying or defending that.

But how many people there just don't say anything? How many try to be Catholic, while not sticking out like a sore thumb? Maybe some of them would prefer not to get banned. For some people, it's in their personality to go with the crowd.

But again, maybe they are liberal. It's true that the moderator herself shows plenty of evidence for being liberal. She speaks the language, etc. and you can see it in most of her posts. And a forum owner will tend to MOSTLY favor people like himself, and be against those who diametrically oppose what he stands for.

I'll admit -- there are a couple members on CathInfo that are a thorn in my side. Maybe more than a couple :)  But they're my penance.

I don't want to excuse Fisheaters or Vox for how she's run that forum -- but let's just say I always want to look into each accusation, and always consider the other side. It's only fair. Things are seldom as cut & dried as people think. Especially when you're talking about a forum of hundreds or thousands of people!

Only in sports are things that cut & dried. "Bears good. Packers bad." (or vice-versa).


At any rate, my point is this: There are some malcontents and troublemakers that even call CathInfo (and myself) liberal, or leaning towards liberalism. Which is about as ridiculous as a pink rhinoceros selling drugs to the Amish.

To throw that word at me is to lose all credibility.

There's not the slightest shred of evidence or basis for that charge. They can't seem to tell the difference between a "devil's advocate" or "different perspective" and a forum that's generally favorable to liberals.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 22, 2013, 01:09:53 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
We should pray a novena that it does.  Seriously.  People will say that the main site (not the forum) the site is 'invaluable' but all the information on the FE main site can be found elsewhere, the only benefit is that it is well-organized.  So if the main site goes with the forum, so be it.  That place is a living, breathing scandal.  It only reinforces the modernist tendencies and neo-Catholic sentiments that exist among so many self described 'traditional' Catholics.


I wish I could argue otherwise, but you are spot on.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 22, 2013, 01:10:34 PM
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't get why you feel you need to defend FE from my post.  I'm saying that most posters are not nasty.  What is wrong with that?

Added:  This post was supposed to quote Matthew's post.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 22, 2013, 01:13:46 PM
Sorry about that -- it wasn't really aimed at you.

It was your defense of FE that reminded me of what I wanted to say, that's all.

I rephrased my post a bit (toward the beginning).

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 22, 2013, 01:18:31 PM
Quote from: Matthew
Sorry about that -- it wasn't really aimed at you.

It was your defense of FE that reminded me of what I wanted to say, that's all.

I rephrased my post a bit (toward the beginning).



I just saw your change.  But, I actually wasn't defending FE...LOL.  I was just pointing out that Vox said one of the reasons why it might get closed down was because she is tired of the nastiness over there.  I was trying to point out that what she considers "nasty" isn't really "nasty".



Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 22, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
Of course, it's very likely that Vox is simply saying this to get her daily bread.  Look at all the replies-- they're all based in sentimentality.  Not a single one of those replies correspons to the reality of FE, which is a terrific moral scandal and a stumbling block to traditional Catholicism.  Sentimental people are easy to get money out of.  That might be the entire purpose of the thread.  I noticed a few people wrote "I'll send more money, just don't shut it down!"

As I mentioned earlier, some people will plead to keep the main site up because of it's catechetical value.  While I've never found anything objectionable on the FE main site, I've also found nothing on there that can't be found somewhere else.  In other words, the only real benefit to the main site is that it is very well organized.  It may be a worthwhile venture for some actual traditional Catholics to undertake a similar project in organizing that type of material.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mama ChaCha on September 23, 2013, 06:04:24 AM
It is simply my personal experience and opinion so I am sure others have differing perspectives, but I found Jayne to be exceptionally uncharitable. Too often accusations of heresy and schism are aimed at people she disagrees with. Even if she is right and the other person is clearly incorrect, her way of correction is fierce and can do much damage to the fragile faith of new comers. Often in threads, she seems very determined to make it about herself, or simply hijacks a thread, shouting down dissenting voices.  :drillsergeant:

Perhaps FE could benefit from a retired priest as moderator?  This way charity and censure can be doled out from the perspective of one who genuinely wants to save souls.  :incense:
I would be sad to see it go. It is good to know that traditional catholics are just normal people with normal neurosis and frailties. Sometimes, New converts forget that wrapped up in the perfection, order and solemnity of the mass, there are still imperfect human beings.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Stubborn on September 23, 2013, 06:10:57 AM
FE deserves JayneK to be moderator.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 07:02:57 AM
Ok.

Earlier I mentioned that we need to back up anything we say that might be considered "negative" when talking about someone in their absence.

In the spirit of leading by example, here goes.

I found this post of Vox to be objectionable, and typical of what she posts these days. This post is only a few months old, so it's quite recent.

In the thread where a transsɛҳuąƖ boldly "came out of the closet", here was Vox's first post on the matter:

Quote from: Vox Clamantis
Wow, she did it. Gutsy, Impy! Very, very gutsy, especially at a place like this!

My two cents:  I think it'd be bizarre if there weren't congenital, genetic, and hormonal anomalies that can produce a syndrome in which one's chromosomal sex is masculine, while the apparent and/or "felt" sex is feminine (and vice versa, though the former would likely by a lot more common because of the "Androgen push" that's necessary for a fetus to become masculine with regard to secondary sex characteristics). There've been hermaphrodites that the Church has known about forever, there are chromosomal problems (XO, XXO, etc.), and there are hormonal issues (many of which can take place in utero, such as the failing of that "androgen push," for ex/, which likely affects brain-wiring itself) that can do a lot of weird things. Someone going through such a thing is likely living in a sort of Hell, especially given that so many people just lack the imagination enough or have the charity enough to even begin to empathize.

I think that because of the nature of some of these anomalies, the Church just hasn't caught up (i.e., because some of these problems are rooted in problems that Science couldn't touch until recently, the Church simply didn't have the tools to deal with them.)  But to imagine enduring this, just imagine being the sex you are chromosomally, right now -- and then imagine having your body not match up. Imagine being a man, feeling like a man, emoting (or not) like a man, thinking like a man, knowing you are a man -- but having [explicit references to genitalia removed]. Or if you're a woman, imagine knowing you're a woman, sɛҳuąƖly responding as a woman, feeling absolutely like a woman -- but having a [explicit reference to genitalia removed] (the more common scenario). Think about it!

These folks have all the sympathy I got. I pray that anyone suffering this tries his/her best to please God always, never gives up on Christ, never leaves the Church because of mistreatment by some of Her less charitable members, and finds peace, love, and happiness.

Thanks for your honesty, Impy. You might be a woman, but you've got a, um, set!


And then she stubbornly sticks to her position:

Quote from: Vox Clamantis


Quote from: Wallflower
Vox it is offensive for you to continue to equate medical treatment for children with genetic or chromosome defects to a man getting a sex change. Please stop.

The preponderance of the evidence is that Impy is a man. He was born a man, raised a man, lived as a man, has male chromosomes, male body parts and even his condition is male. If his brain says otherwise, there is something wrong with his brain. He is not a hermaphrodite choosing between two sexes either. He is one and choosing to become another. The attempts to explain it away using other examples that are not applicable are not working. But seriously, keep the kids with true genetic disorders out of it.

It is not "offensive" to equate medical treatment for a genetic or chromosome defect with medical treatment for a genetic or chromosome defect. You're not making sense and are only begging a couple of questions.  Please stop.

You don't know the preponderance of evidence, quite frankly. Have you seen his medical records or examined her genitals or checked out his chromosomes, etc.? This is a medical decision between Impy, her doctors, and her priests. She announced her decision. You have stated your mind. You've done your job.


And in this case (as in most others), the strong opinions of the leader are certainly going to affect what is considered "acceptable" to post there. Whether the views of the moderator make it into the actual RULES or not (usually a lot of them do), it will affect what IS posted, what is NOT posted, and what kind of person will stick around and feel welcome. That is undeniable.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 23, 2013, 10:57:15 AM
Vox started a recent thread in which she asks for help on how to dress or act like a wizard for 3-6 graders. As a former New-Ager from long ago, maybe I'm overly concerned out it (wouldn't be the first time).

But then, Tolkien had a wizard (Gandalf) in his LOTR series. I dunno. I don't want to start bashing Vox, but this seems wrong to me.

Here's the thread:

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460892.0.html

 :shocked:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 23, 2013, 11:06:34 AM
Gandalf wasn't really a Wizard proper, and the abilities he had and the means he used to achieve them were not witchcraft in the usual sense.  He was Istari, which basically means he was an angel delegated to earth by Iluvitar (sp?).  A guardian angel of sorts.  Tolkien had a rich Catholic sense that he filled Middle Earth with.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 23, 2013, 11:17:04 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Gandalf wasn't really a Wizard proper, and the abilities he had and the means he used to achieve them were not witchcraft in the usual sense.  He was Istari, which basically means he was an angel delegated to earth by Iluvitar (sp?).  A guardian angel of sorts.  Tolkien had a rich Catholic sense that he filled Middle Earth with.


Thanks for explaining the difference. I love the LOTR series, and Gandalf is one of my favorite characters, since he always wants to do the right, moral, and noble thing in any situation. The Harry Potter series is different, though. I don't want to take the thread off track by worrying about the difference too much. Maybe it's not a big deal.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Graham on September 23, 2013, 11:39:12 AM
Quote from: Matthew
[...] I'd like to bring up something that's been bothering me. I'd like to honestly consider the charge that FE is liberal [...]

I mean, how can you make such a broad generalizations [...] ?


An odd post, Matthew, and not doing you any favours.

CI is a longshot from FE - keep it that way!
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Tridentine MT on September 23, 2013, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Gandalf wasn't really a Wizard proper, and the abilities he had and the means he used to achieve them were not witchcraft in the usual sense.  He was Istari, which basically means he was an angel delegated to earth by Iluvitar (sp?).  A guardian angel of sorts.  Tolkien had a rich Catholic sense that he filled Middle Earth with.


Tolkien  :gandalf: used to answer in Latin when the Novus Ordo in English made its debut, probably irritating the clueless people around him who had simply surrendered.

But to turn to the thread, I think that FE should exist but should be wary of closet modernists  :devil2: who play the trad game.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 23, 2013, 11:55:37 AM
Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Gandalf wasn't really a Wizard proper, and the abilities he had and the means he used to achieve them were not witchcraft in the usual sense.  He was Istari, which basically means he was an angel delegated to earth by Iluvitar (sp?).  A guardian angel of sorts.  Tolkien had a rich Catholic sense that he filled Middle Earth with.


Tolkien  :gandalf: used to answer in Latin when the Novus Ordo in English made its debut, probably irritating the clueless people around him who had simply surrendered.

But to turn to the thread, I think that FE should exist but should be wary of closet modernists  :devil2: who play the trad game.



CI has closet modernists.  FE has loud and proud modernists.  It's a serious stumblingblock for those looking for the truth.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 11:57:42 AM
Quote from: Graham
Quote from: Matthew
[...] I'd like to bring up something that's been bothering me. I'd like to honestly consider the charge that FE is liberal [...]

I mean, how can you make such a broad generalizations [...] ?


An odd post, Matthew, and not doing you any favours.

CI is a longshot from FE - keep it that way!


I am not ashamed of always carefully considering both sides of an argument, or wanting to hear/consider the other side of the story. If everyone would do that, there would be a lot less rumors, gossip, detraction, backbiting, and other sins of the tongue.

If you read my more recent post in the thread, I explained how I came to the conclusion that Vox is liberal. Remember, I did admit that plenty of liberals exist on FE. In fact, I've also stated that because of Vox's orientation, the liberal view dominates the forum. I just don't know what % of Fisheaters is actually liberal. Maybe some of them are clinging to whatever shreds of Catholicism are left there, like Novus Ordo Catholics do in the Conciliar church.

But I want to emphasize that I'm not just repeating a mantra, trying to win brownie points from my members here, etc. I'm "showing my work" like in Math class. I'm demonstrating that if I call Fisheaters "liberal", it's after considering all points of view, and carefully weighing the evidence.

If only everyone did that.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 12:01:27 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Gandalf wasn't really a Wizard proper, and the abilities he had and the means he used to achieve them were not witchcraft in the usual sense.  He was Istari, which basically means he was an angel delegated to earth by Iluvitar (sp?).  A guardian angel of sorts.  Tolkien had a rich Catholic sense that he filled Middle Earth with.


Tolkien  :gandalf: used to answer in Latin when the Novus Ordo in English made its debut, probably irritating the clueless people around him who had simply surrendered.

But to turn to the thread, I think that FE should exist but should be wary of closet modernists  :devil2: who play the trad game.



CI has closet modernists.  FE has loud and proud modernists.  It's a serious stumblingblock for those looking for the truth.


Well, the game is to "out" them using Catholic doctrine. It will be good for the rest of us. Look what happened to the SSPX! They apparently forgot what Modernism is, and how bad the Novus Ordo is.

Soldiers need to continually train. This is a war we're in.

Generally speaking, on a forum like CI you're not going to slip in too much error of any kind without a pile-on ensuing. We simply have "too many" well informed Catholics here for a Modernist to get away with much heretical talk.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Graham on September 23, 2013, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: Graham
Quote from: Matthew
[...] I'd like to bring up something that's been bothering me. I'd like to honestly consider the charge that FE is liberal [...]

I mean, how can you make such a broad generalizations [...] ?


An odd post, Matthew, and not doing you any favours.

CI is a longshot from FE - keep it that way!


I am not ashamed of always carefully considering both sides of an argument, or wanting to hear/consider the other side of the story. If everyone would do that, there would be a lot less rumors, gossip, detraction, backbiting, and other sins of the tongue.

If you read my more recent post in the thread, I explained how I came to the conclusion that Vox is liberal. Remember, I did admit that plenty of liberals exist on FE. In fact, I've also stated that because of Vox's orientation, the liberal view dominates the forum. I just don't know what % of Fisheaters is actually liberal. Maybe some of them are clinging to whatever shreds of Catholicism are left there, like Novus Ordo Catholics do in the Conciliar church.

But I want to emphasize that I'm not just repeating a mantra, trying to win brownie points from my members here, etc. I'm "showing my work" like in Math class. I'm demonstrating that if I call Fisheaters "liberal", it's after considering all points of view, and carefully weighing the evidence.

If only everyone did that.


You're saying the words I quoted were rhetorical, and that the generalization that FE is liberal is perfectly accurate. Right?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 12:13:51 PM
After carefully re-considering it, yes. It's accurate.

Words mean things. When you say, "Fisheaters is a liberal forum", one assumes that liberalism generally dominates there.

And I believe that's simply the truth.

For example, if you were to start a thread entitled "Should I go to public beaches?" most people are going to tell you to go for it, and the few people who point out the occasion for sin will be booed off the stage, castigated, etc.

As further evidence, countless anti-Liberals have been banned from the forum. Not just one individual (which might be explained as a personality issue or conflict -- a problem with the individual rather than his position), but dozens of good Catholics have been booted from that forum.

So although I wish it weren't true, I must conclude that FE is indeed a liberal-leaning forum. You just can't have a forum that's diametrically opposed to its owner.

(That's why I always tell people to not worry about CathInfo becoming liberal!)
 :smirk:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: parentsfortruth on September 23, 2013, 12:27:38 PM
Quote from: Stubborn
FE deserves JayneK to be moderator.


It might be a dead forum before we know it.  :laugh1:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on September 23, 2013, 01:03:33 PM
How can it possibly be nasty over there??

Now that all the meanies and elitists have left or been banned it ought to be the mecca of niceness!

 :smile:


Seriously I would not doubt that she is overwhelmed. It really isn't the job for a woman and she has openly admitted that a lot depends on her mood. From her own posts she is a pretty emotional woman, (not necessarily in a bad way). Put that and liberal-leaning together and it's nearly impossible to keep order.

At the bottom of the admission is likely also a creative way to get people to put their money where their mouth is. She is right, she needs to be providing for herself and if FE doesn't do it then she has to put her energy elsewhere. I am not opposed to people making money off their websites although she likely didn't start out with that intention. I think the main website was a burst of generosity rather than a plan to make a living. Now that she needs it though, it's hard to turn it around into a profitable endeavor. Not to mention there's so much controversy on serious issues that it makes people wary of donating. I considered donating long ago but held off and in time realized it wasn't a cause I could support. This seems like a last call for those who are still there.



 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matto on September 23, 2013, 02:23:45 PM
I have not spent more than ten minutes at Fisheaters in my entire life, so I can't judge whether it is liberal or not, though I have heard that it is very liberal. I don't think cathinfo is liberal. But there are a few liberals here. But overall I think it is still mostly traditional. This site and Matthew have been called liberal on another forum, but I don't think it is true, I think he just allows a few liberals to post here to keep things interesting. Every once in a while I see Matthew post something that I think is liberal, but it is not very often. I called another poster here a liberal the other day, but thinking about it more I thought I was wrong and apologized.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: Matto
Every once in a while I see Matthew post something that I think is liberal, but it is not very often. I called another poster here a liberal the other day, but thinking about it more I thought I was wrong and apologized.


Huh?

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

You know, if a person (or a group of two dozen people) starts throwing the word "liberal" around to all and sundry, it begins to lose its meaning...

You did right in apologizing.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Stubborn on September 23, 2013, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: Matto
Every once in a while I see Matthew post something that I think is liberal, but it is not very often. I called another poster here a liberal the other day, but thinking about it more I thought I was wrong and apologized.


Huh?

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

You know, if a person (or a group of two dozen people) starts throwing the word "liberal" around to all and sundry, it begins to lose its meaning...

You did right in apologizing.


Must be that remark you made about collecting aluminum cans you tree hugger you! LOL
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Stubborn on September 23, 2013, 03:19:17 PM
Quote from: parentsfortruth
Quote from: Stubborn
FE deserves JayneK to be moderator.


It might be a dead forum before we know it.  :laugh1:


Exactly ha ha!
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matto on September 23, 2013, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: Matthew

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

OK. Right now I can only remember one thing you wrote that I thought was liberal. I forget which thread it was on, but you said that you think young men should leave the home to become independent instead of living with their parents until marriage. I thought that this was liberal. You have written and I have read a lot of things that you wrote. I think it is pretty good that I can only remember one liberal thing you wrote, and it was not really that liberal. I bet if someone checked my posts, they would find more than one liberal one.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: Matthew

I'd like to know what you're referring to. I don't have a liberal bone in my body.

OK. Right now I can only remember one thing you wrote that I thought was liberal. I forget which thread it was on, but you said that you think young men should leave the home to become independent instead of living with their parents until marriage. I thought that this was liberal. You have written and I have read a lot of things that you wrote. I think it is pretty good that I can only remember one liberal thing you wrote, and it was not really that liberal. I bet if someone checked my posts, they would find more than one liberal one.


That's not liberal.

Ok, I've decided to do it. I'm starting that thread I was thinking about. Stay tuned...
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Gaudium in Space on September 23, 2013, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: parentsfortruth
Quote from: Stubborn
FE deserves JayneK to be moderator.


It might be a dead forum before we know it.  :laugh1:


From a few of the FE threads I've looked at, it seemed that Jayne was already a defacto moderator. I dont have the thread(s) docuмented but I recall a few people complaining about that. If I remember correctly, GMU Alex may have been one of them.


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 23, 2013, 03:35:54 PM
I have a couple of posts to add to the discussion.

If we're discussing JayneK, what could be better (or more accurate) than words from her own mouth?

Quote from: JayneK

Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne, if Vox asked you to be the Moderator, would you be willing?


I would give her a list of the people who would be better choices than me.  It would include you.
There is no reason for me to be a moderator when there are so many people who would do a better job.  

I suppose I could not refuse her if she asked me, but I think it would be a bad idea to ask me.  I could make another list of reasons why it is a bad idea.



Quote from: JayneK
Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne. Jayne. You ARE ok!!  Give yourself a hug. You are ok.  You are good enough, smart enough, and doggonit people like you (Stuart Smalley, SNL)!!

Chris, it is flattering that you see me as capable of doing this job but it is not something I am suited for.  Many people understandably associate my posts with debates and controversy.  This is not an image that one wants associated with a moderator.  My ability to make good decisions would be negatively influenced by my reluctance to hurt people's feelings.  A significant number of people find me irritating.  I would be uncomfortable being in a position of authority over men.  I would also feel pretty weird making judgments about people who are better Catholics than me, which is virtually everyone on this forum.

It is reasonable to put some thought into who be might good moderators in case Vox decides to go that route and asks for opinions.  It is not reasonable to think of me.  I am not being coy or wanting to be persuaded.  I mean it.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 23, 2013, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Matthew
After carefully re-considering it, yes. It's accurate.

Words mean things. When you say, "Fisheaters is a liberal forum", one assumes that liberalism generally dominates there.

And I believe that's simply the truth.

For example, if you were to start a thread entitled "Should I go to public beaches?" most people are going to tell you to go for it, and the few people who point out the occasion for sin will be booed off the stage, castigated, etc.

As further evidence, countless anti-Liberals have been banned from the forum. Not just one individual (which might be explained as a personality issue or conflict -- a problem with the individual rather than his position), but dozens of good Catholics have been booted from that forum.

So although I wish it weren't true, I must conclude that FE is indeed a liberal-leaning forum. You just can't have a forum that's diametrically opposed to its owner.

(That's why I always tell people to not worry about CathInfo becoming liberal!)
 :smirk:


OK, so now I'm defending FE (sorta)...lol.

I honestly would not characterize that forum as "liberal" (if we're looking solely at the posters' relationships with Traditional Catholicism).  That "honor" belongs to CAF.  However, compared to here?  I can see why some would think it is liberal.

I think a large majority of the active posters over there are at least SSPX-traditional.  Then there are closet SV's or those who sympathize with the SV view or those who wish to learn more about SV (but know they can't discuss it). Then there are the not-so-closet liberal posters (including CAF liberal aka NO posters).  

I tend to think that perhaps outsiders looking in might consider FE "liberal" because these very vocal posters are given full reign.  I knew something was wrong when a very vocal CAF/NO poster bad mouthed Vox, was banned, and then Vox reinstated him. It reminded me of the crap I saw on CAF.  When that happened I knew I probably wouldn't be around for long.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 23, 2013, 03:53:24 PM
Quote from: Matthew
I have a couple of posts to add to the discussion.

If we're discussing JayneK, what could be better (or more accurate) than words from her own mouth?

Quote from: JayneK

Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne, if Vox asked you to be the Moderator, would you be willing?


I would give her a list of the people who would be better choices than me.  It would include you.
There is no reason for me to be a moderator when there are so many people who would do a better job.  

I suppose I could not refuse her if she asked me, but I think it would be a bad idea to ask me.  I could make another list of reasons why it is a bad idea.



Quote from: JayneK
Quote from: christulsa123
Jayne. Jayne. You ARE ok!!  Give yourself a hug. You are ok.  You are good enough, smart enough, and doggonit people like you (Stuart Smalley, SNL)!!

Chris, it is flattering that you see me as capable of doing this job but it is not something I am suited for.  Many people understandably associate my posts with debates and controversy.  This is not an image that one wants associated with a moderator.  My ability to make good decisions would be negatively influenced by my reluctance to hurt people's feelings.  A significant number of people find me irritating.  I would be uncomfortable being in a position of authority over men.  I would also feel pretty weird making judgments about people who are better Catholics than me, which is virtually everyone on this forum.

It is reasonable to put some thought into who be might good moderators in case Vox decides to go that route and asks for opinions.  It is not reasonable to think of me.  I am not being coy or wanting to be persuaded.  I mean it.


Like I have said before on this forum, she and I were like oil and water, but I saw these posts of hers and her remarks do seem genuine.  I respect the fact that she sees that she is not a good person to act as moderator.  However, I find it ironic because much of what bugged me was that she seemed to act as one naturally.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St George on September 23, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Of course, it's very likely that Vox is simply saying this to get her daily bread.  Look at all the replies-- they're all based in sentimentality.  Not a single one of those replies correspons to the reality of FE, which is a terrific moral scandal and a stumbling block to traditional Catholicism.  Sentimental people are easy to get money out of.  That might be the entire purpose of the thread.  I noticed a few people wrote "I'll send more money, just don't shut it down!"

As I mentioned earlier, some people will plead to keep the main site up because of it's catechetical value.  While I've never found anything objectionable on the FE main site, I've also found nothing on there that can't be found somewhere else.  In other words, the only real benefit to the main site is that it is very well organized.  It may be a worthwhile venture for some actual traditional Catholics to undertake a similar project in organizing that type of material.


I suspect anyone who brought up the sordid past of FE would quickly be banned or shredded by JayneK.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 23, 2013, 04:08:15 PM
Quote from: St George
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Of course, it's very likely that Vox is simply saying this to get her daily bread.  Look at all the replies-- they're all based in sentimentality.  Not a single one of those replies correspons to the reality of FE, which is a terrific moral scandal and a stumbling block to traditional Catholicism.  Sentimental people are easy to get money out of.  That might be the entire purpose of the thread.  I noticed a few people wrote "I'll send more money, just don't shut it down!"

As I mentioned earlier, some people will plead to keep the main site up because of it's catechetical value.  While I've never found anything objectionable on the FE main site, I've also found nothing on there that can't be found somewhere else.  In other words, the only real benefit to the main site is that it is very well organized.  It may be a worthwhile venture for some actual traditional Catholics to undertake a similar project in organizing that type of material.


I suspect anyone who brought up the sordid past of FE would quickly be banned or shredded by JayneK.


I believe this is why ggreg was banned.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 23, 2013, 04:20:24 PM
Quote from: Matthew


Well, the game is to "out" them using Catholic doctrine. It will be good for the rest of us. Look what happened to the SSPX! They apparently forgot what Modernism is, and how bad the Novus Ordo is.

.


I am confused.  I thought this site was mostly SSPXers.

Someone help a newbie out (both to this site and to traddy talk).
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Capt McQuigg on September 23, 2013, 04:21:29 PM
Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on September 23, 2013, 04:28:10 PM
In my mind this is the quote of Jayne's that is most telling. The personality things can be overcome but this kind of agenda cannot.

Quote
It is the only place where Ecclesia Dei trads can express our views without being shouted down or moderated away.  Since ED is the growing aspect of traditional Catholicism, that is a rather important contribution to make.


It was her very vocal wish from the beginning which is why, as the tide turned that way, people looked to her as having Vox in her back pocket. Jayne came around wanting trads to be seen in "a better light" and include conservatives and lo and behold Vox started bringing the hammer down and complaining about how trads are viewed. As much as it was denied that the trads were being targeted, they were.

Unbeknownst to her (at least at first, she must know now) there are differences in principle that make it very difficult for Ecclesia Dei types and trads to get along. You have to be uneducated on the issues or naïve to think they can co-exist because it runs deeper than personalities or niceness or virtue, it's about principle. They will always be at odds no matter how nice they are (although it doesn't hurt to try). So as Ecclesia Deis gained a voice, championed by Jayne, trads lost theirs and had to be content to howl in the wild or go elsewhere.

I don't have a problem with Ecclesia Deis or conservatives as such as long as they are in an environment where they realize they still have a lot to learn. If it's seen as a destination in itself rather than a stepping stone, then the clash of principles really becomes a problem. Vox seems to have a soft spot for new reverts which is likely why the Ecclesia Deis were systematically given the platform. I just wish she knew that she does them no favors by removing the trads who would challenge them, however brusquely, to grow past that.


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matto on September 23, 2013, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: Capt McQuigg
Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.


I don't think it would be a good thing. If FE closed and with IA closed, the posters there might come here and try to turn Cathinfo into another FE.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St George on September 23, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: Capt McQuigg
Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.


I don't think it would be a good thing. If FE closed and with IA closed, the posters there might come here and try to turn Cathinfo into another FE.


I suspect their first stop for the conservatives will be SD, the rest to Phat.

Vox should just give up and give the whole works to SD. It would be just rewards for Kaesekopf's work.

ed: spelling
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on September 23, 2013, 04:53:00 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Matthew


Well, the game is to "out" them using Catholic doctrine. It will be good for the rest of us. Look what happened to the SSPX! They apparently forgot what Modernism is, and how bad the Novus Ordo is.

.


I am confused.  I thought this site was mostly SSPXers.

Someone help a newbie out (both to this site and to traddy talk).


I think most here are SSPX but we still realize that the SSPX has some internal issues right now with +Fellay at the head. +Fellay has expressed the desire to put Doctrine on the backburner in order to cement a purely practical deal with Rome. This is contrary to the mentality and principles of Archbishop Lefebvre so it is being met with consternation. Younger seminarians are being taught to accept this as a viable option if +Fellay says so. It's not good.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 23, 2013, 05:30:02 PM
Quote from: wallflower
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Matthew


Well, the game is to "out" them using Catholic doctrine. It will be good for the rest of us. Look what happened to the SSPX! They apparently forgot what Modernism is, and how bad the Novus Ordo is.

.


I am confused.  I thought this site was mostly SSPXers.

Someone help a newbie out (both to this site and to traddy talk).


I think most here are SSPX but we still realize that the SSPX has some internal issues right now with +Fellay at the head. +Fellay has expressed the desire to put Doctrine on the backburner in order to cement a purely practical deal with Rome. This is contrary to the mentality and principles of Archbishop Lefebvre so it is being met with consternation. Younger seminarians are being taught to accept this as a viable option if +Fellay says so. It's not good.



I would agree that that does not sound good at all.

How does one put doctrine on the back burner?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 23, 2013, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: St George
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: Capt McQuigg
Whether it happens or not, FishEaters closing would be a good thing.


I don't think it would be a good thing. If FE closed and with IA closed, the posters there might come here and try to turn Cathinfo into another FE.


I suspect their first stop for the conservatives will be SD, the rest to Phat.

Vox should just give up and give the whole works to SD. It would be just rewards for Kaesekopf's work.

ed: spelling


SD is as liberal as FE, it's just a bit more tolerant of trads.  There are just a *few* more traditional Catholics there.  SD is basically FE of like four years ago.  I was informed recently that the owner of SD was publicly promoting his attendance of NO 'youth mass' performed by an NO bishop.  Half of the self described 'traditional' forums in the English speaking world are run by people who aren't traditional Catholics.  Not a good sign.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on September 23, 2013, 06:35:16 PM
I stopped posting there quite a while ago. There are some good posters there, but it's still Fish Kill 2.0.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 23, 2013, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: Charlemagne
I stopped posting there quite a while ago. There are some good posters there, but it's still Fish Kill 2.0.


Yeah, there are a few left, but they won't be around for long.  At this point, the majority of posters are FE refugees who couldn't handle the transsɛҳuąƖism, but didn't want to go to a forum that criticized the NO too much.  A community is defined by it's leader, and the majority of it's visible members.  SD is run by a liberal Novus Ordite and most of it's users don't reject the NO or VII wholesale.  The fact that a few trads like INPEFESS, Bonaventure or Mysterium Fidei stick around does not redeem what that community actually IS.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: GottmitunsAlex on September 23, 2013, 07:47:48 PM
Quote from: wallflower
In my mind this is the quote of Jayne's that is most telling. The personality things can be overcome but this kind of agenda cannot.

Quote
It is the only place where Ecclesia Dei trads can express our views without being shouted down or moderated away.  Since ED is the growing aspect of traditional Catholicism, that is a rather important contribution to make.






I wish it were  just that.


http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=265&num=5 (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=265&num=5)


http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=125&num=5 (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=125&num=5)


All the mods @ Sd support her. They will perma-ban any Traditional Catholic before ever thinking of reproaching her ambiguous diatribe.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mama ChaCha on September 24, 2013, 01:48:46 AM
Quote from: GottmitunsAlex
Quote from: wallflower
In my mind this is the quote of Jayne's that is most telling. The personality things can be overcome but this kind of agenda cannot.

Quote
It is the only place where Ecclesia Dei trads can express our views without being shouted down or moderated away.  Since ED is the growing aspect of traditional Catholicism, that is a rather important contribution to make.






I wish it were  just that.


http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=265&num=5 (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=265&num=5)


http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=125&num=5 (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=24837&min=125&num=5)


All the mods @ Sd support her. They will perma-ban any Traditional Catholic before ever thinking of reproaching her ambiguous diatribe.


I do owe her a debt of gratitude. She did cause me to reign in my own fiery passions and to work harder to be more charitable and less judgemental, and to defend my personal faith in kindness where possible. She also drove me out of FE and into CathInfo.  :smirk:

God forgive me if I am uncharitable in saying so, and always it is my opinion, but it maybe that Jayne is lacking in spirituality, or humility, or having faith, and so relies too much on legalistic arguments. I find this sad because our faith is just that: a faith. One could know all the ins and out and rules and regulations of anything, but still quite miss the point.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: ggreg on September 24, 2013, 02:40:27 AM
Quote from: 2Vermont
What does SD stand for?  I just tried googling "SD Catholic forum" and I don't see anything.


It stands for Susc!pe Dom!ne.  Turn the exclamation marks into i as the forum software is stopping me writing out the word.

Next time try Googling Traditional Catholic Forum.  There are not that many.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on September 25, 2013, 01:41:14 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
SD is run by a liberal Novus Ordite and most of it's users don't reject the NO or VII wholesale.  


I did a poll this week, and it seems that all of the participants do not like the Novus Ordo Mass.  According to the poll, the majority clearly regard the Tridentine Latin Mass as superior.  

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=3717.0
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Pius IX on September 25, 2013, 03:33:18 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
It is FE redux.  


So it added a French plantation scene, more Marlon Brando scenes, and so on?

Oh wait, that's the wrong redux.


Quote

All the mods @ Sd support her.


Mind reading, just one of the many abilities of a Mexican who wants to be a nαzι.

Quote

I did a poll this week, and it seems that all of the participants do not like the Novus Ordo Mass.  According to the poll, the majority clearly regard the Tridentine Latin Mass as superior.  


But Dylan has devised a way to determine if a forum is liberal or not. It's his own pet theory that we must adopt.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 25, 2013, 04:29:01 AM
Quote from: ggreg
Quote from: 2Vermont
What does SD stand for?  I just tried googling "SD Catholic forum" and I don't see anything.


It stands for Susc!pe Dom!ne.  Turn the exclamation marks into i as the forum software is stopping me writing out the word.

Next time try Googling Traditional Catholic Forum.  There are not that many.


After careful consideration, I decided to take off the block on that phrase.

SD is a completely different kind of forum. It's for ex-FE members that wish they could still be FE members.


In other unrelated news: McDonald's doesn't allow Burger King to advertise in its dining areas...
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: poche on September 25, 2013, 05:05:29 AM
Quote from: Meg
Vox started a recent thread in which she asks for help on how to dress or act like a wizard for 3-6 graders. As a former New-Ager from long ago, maybe I'm overly concerned out it (wouldn't be the first time).

But then, Tolkien had a wizard (Gandalf) in his LOTR series. I dunno. I don't want to start bashing Vox, but this seems wrong to me.

Here's the thread:

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460892.0.html

 :shocked:

I always thought that female wizards were witches.
 :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 25, 2013, 05:41:15 AM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: ggreg
Quote from: 2Vermont
What does SD stand for?  I just tried googling "SD Catholic forum" and I don't see anything.


It stands for Susc!pe Dom!ne.  Turn the exclamation marks into i as the forum software is stopping me writing out the word.

Next time try Googling Traditional Catholic Forum.  There are not that many.


After careful consideration, I decided to take off the block on that phrase.

SD is a completely different kind of forum. It's for ex-FE members that wish they could still be FE members.


In other unrelated news: McDonald's doesn't allow Burger King to advertise in its dining areas...


LOL ....or Coke at Pepsi facilities.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 25, 2013, 07:16:35 AM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: ggreg
Quote from: 2Vermont
What does SD stand for?  I just tried googling "SD Catholic forum" and I don't see anything.


It stands for Susc!pe Dom!ne.  Turn the exclamation marks into i as the forum software is stopping me writing out the word.

Next time try Googling Traditional Catholic Forum.  There are not that many.


After careful consideration, I decided to take off the block on that phrase.

SD is a completely different kind of forum. It's for ex-FE members that wish they could still be FE members.


In other unrelated news: McDonald's doesn't allow Burger King to advertise in its dining areas...


That is a terrific way to describe many, if not most who post over there.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MiserereMeiDeus on September 25, 2013, 01:10:31 PM
I briefly posted on SD. I found a thread there on rock music with soft-core pornographic hard rock videos posted -- the MTV sort -- and when I expressed my disgust I was overwhelming shouted down as a Puritan or Jansenist (actually, I doubt if 9 people out of 10 there know what a Jansenist is). Even the moderator discounted my concerns. So I quit.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Stubborn on September 25, 2013, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: Mithrandylan
SD is run by a liberal Novus Ordite and most of it's users don't reject the NO or VII wholesale.  


I did a poll this week, and it seems that all of the participants do not like the Novus Ordo Mass.  According to the poll, the majority clearly regard the Tridentine Latin Mass as superior.  

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=3717.0


I read the first page of replies - had to check to see if I was on FE or SD, may as well have been FE. Sameo sameo.



Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 26, 2013, 01:58:17 PM
It's official and undeniable now.

I want for anyone to post here if they mind the rules -- and especially if they love our Lord Jesus Christ, whether they're gαy, transgendered, schizophrenic, tax collectors, whores, lawyers (teehee), what have you.
- Vox Clamantis
"

It's over. The tranny still has his "clare brigid" account as well as the other one he is using and has been caught/called out for using a photo of another member as his avatar in order to taunt him.

No action taken, the tranny gets away with it and as usual, is emboldened and determined to harass anyone he pleases with Vox's apparent blessing.

What once was a forum dominated by trads, albeit many young ones having much to learn, is now a cesspool. Members who have been there less than a month or others who have surfaced out of nowhere attempting to gain access to member info such as email addys and IP addys by volunteering to be a mod or help with the administration of the site.

Sad to think someone will google "traditional catholic forum", find fe and right there at the top of the thread index of the first sub fora is a couple of threads with the tranny drama all over again. Vox says she wants to improve the image of trads yet allows that to be front and center.

I'm praying she shuts it down.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 26, 2013, 03:02:32 PM
Good assessment, St. Magnus, to which I would just add this: Vox mentioned on that thread that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Which is true, I think. But her description of what is meant by this seems to be that, for example, if an obviously very ill person ventures into or near the hospital but refuses to believe that he or she ill and also refuses treatment, that it's perfectly alright and acceptable for that person to stay in the hospital and harass others who try to rightly point out that that person suffers from a serious illness. What is the point of even going to the hospital if one refuses treatment because they don't believe that they are ill? But those on FE who rightly point out that sin is still sin, and that Our Lord told sinners to go and sin no more, are criticized on FE.

What's the point in even being a trad if sin is perfectly acceptable even to the point of being a protected right for a Catholic be able to engage in? That's where the scandal comes in, IMO.

I probably haven't explained it very well, but hopefully others here will get the gist of what I'm saying.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 26, 2013, 03:23:51 PM
I'm just wondering how transgendered folks show that they have converted and repent that they did wrong.  Can they even change their sex back?

(I recognize that this may be a really stupid question)
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matto on September 26, 2013, 03:27:29 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Can they even change their sex back?

(I recognize that this may be a really stupid question)

I don't think sex change operations are reversible, but I am not sure. If you have doctors cut off your penis, how can you get it back later when you change your mind?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 26, 2013, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: Matto
Quote from: 2Vermont
Can they even change their sex back?

(I recognize that this may be a really stupid question)

I don't think sex change operations are reversible, but I am not sure. If you have doctors cut off your ####, how can you get it back later when you change your mind?



LOL..I guess not...DUH.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 26, 2013, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: Meg
Good assessment, St. Magnus, to which I would just add this: Vox mentioned on that thread that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Which is true, I think. But her description of what is meant by this seems to be that, for example, if an obviously very ill person ventures into or near the hospital but refuses to believe that he or she ill and also refuses treatment, that it's perfectly alright and acceptable for that person to stay in the hospital and harass others who try to rightly point out that that person suffers from a serious illness. What is the point of even going to the hospital if one refuses treatment because they don't believe that they are ill? But those on FE who rightly point out that sin is still sin, and that Our Lord told sinners to go and sin no more, are criticized on FE.

What's the point in even being a trad if sin is perfectly acceptable even to the point of being a protected right for a Catholic be able to engage in? That's where the scandal comes in, IMO.

I probably haven't explained it very well, but hopefully others here will get the gist of what I'm saying.


You explained it fine.

Vox thinks she is being charitable and doing the right thing obviously, but she just isn't seeing the obvious harm done to the forum.

I continue to pray for her and also pray she shuts it down.

 As Mith said "That place is a living, breathing scandal. It only reinforces the modernist tendencies and neo-Catholic sentiments that exist among so many self described 'traditional' Catholics. "

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on September 26, 2013, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: Meg
Good assessment, St. Magnus, to which I would just add this: Vox mentioned on that thread that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Which is true, I think.


I also read Pope Francis comparing the Church to a field hospital after a battle.

I think this is a gross misrepresentation.  

The Church ought to be an army.  A batallion.  A force of God on Earth.  Church Militant.

A field hospital?  It's as if the Church is defeated already.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 26, 2013, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: Meg
Good assessment, St. Magnus, to which I would just add this: Vox mentioned on that thread that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Which is true, I think.


I also read Pope Francis comparing the Church to a field hospital after a battle.

I think this is a gross misrepresentation.  

The Church ought to be an army.  A batallion.  A force of God on Earth.  Church Militant.

A field hospital?  It's as if the Church is defeated already.  


I see what you're saying. Maybe it's both a hospital and batallion, though I know that sounds lame. It seems to me that we have to continually look at ourselves and admit our weakness and sin before God, if we are to do His will rather than our own, and to stand up for the Church.

On FE, the motto seems to be...."hey, we all sin, so what's the big deal?" To which I would say that sin is something that we should help each other overcome, rather than condone engagement in. I don't understand why Vox doesn't get that.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on September 26, 2013, 05:21:00 PM
I'm the one whose image Impy/Clare/Guacamole stole for his own profile. I made a different user name for this forum, as MorganHiver isn't my real name anyway. The positive response that HE is receiving is absurd. Jayne, Vox, Christulsa (supposedly a staunch SSPX supporter) and so on have already made it clear that HE, as an unrepentant sinner, is welcome and that I deserved that weird reaction from him.

The thing that I find most strange and unsettling is that the image he used was from a post I made back in October 2011 showing a few pics from my wedding (traditional nuptial mass). This means one of two things. 1: He went digging through every post I ever made just to find an image of myself (I don't use a profile pic). or 2: He saved it to his hard drive the very same day I posted it. 1 would definitely be creepy but 2 is just outright frightening. I don't even want to know why he would have any of my images of his hard drive.

God Bless,
Thom
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Graham on September 26, 2013, 05:38:11 PM
Are you telling us that they're OK with that possessed SOB using your photo for his profile without your permission?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on September 26, 2013, 05:43:55 PM
The reason behind it is, according to the transgendered Attorney (impy/clare/guac) is that. he was teaching me a lesson. He put my face on his account so that I can picture myself in his shoes. I don't believe that for one second. Total BS but they are all ok with it. Actually, the majority are disgusted but the prominent figures are ok with it.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 26, 2013, 06:12:33 PM
Quote from: Devekut
The reason behind it is, according to the transgendered Attorney (impy/clare/guac) is that. he was teaching me a lesson. He put my face on his account so that I can picture myself in his shoes. I don't believe that for one second. Total BS but they are all ok with it. Actually, the majority are disgusted but the prominent figures are ok with it.


Sounds like vengeance to me...and it seems that is against the forum rules as well.

But he won't get banned.

By the way MorganHiver, welcome!  Now if I can just get St Pius of Trent (and others) to come over here.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 26, 2013, 06:26:19 PM
Quote from: Graham
Are you telling us that they're OK with that possessed SOB using your photo for his profile without your permission?


Vox and Jayne are defending it. ChrisfromTulsa is as well. Is there an SSPX chapel in Tulsa ? If so, a heads up on this neocat is in order.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 26, 2013, 07:29:47 PM
Quote from: Stubborn
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: Mithrandylan
SD is run by a liberal Novus Ordite and most of it's users don't reject the NO or VII wholesale.  


I did a poll this week, and it seems that all of the participants do not like the Novus Ordo Mass.  According to the poll, the majority clearly regard the Tridentine Latin Mass as superior.  

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=3717.0


I read the first page of replies - had to check to see if I was on FE or SD, may as well have been FE. Sameo sameo.





Quite.  Laramie, traditional Catholics don't just 'not like' the Novus Ordo.  You're asking the wrong questions.  Before the prima dona crew over at SD gave me the boot and then lied about why I was banned, I started a thread "would you attend the NO" and then another thread I was involved in was "is the NO Catholic?"  Both threads: locked.  Things got too 'personal.'  

Anyways, it's irrelevant whether or not people 'like' the NO.  Catholics aren't at liberty to like or dislike CATHOLIC liturgies.  The question you should be asking is 'is the NO Catholic?'  Every person that replies to your thread and says some half-baked nonesense about the NO being extrinsically inferior and intrinsically identical is not earning SD 'trad brownie points,' it's merely re-inforcing the well-earned opinion of that place being an FE re-wind.

I was reprimanded for using the term 'neo-sspx' over there.  Because the 'official' stance of the forum is SSPX, even though NONE of the moderators regularly attend even neo-sspx chapels.  There's a sede, some indulters and only one of the moderators said he will never attend the NO.  I could go on, but we've been over all this before.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on September 26, 2013, 07:38:22 PM
Quote from: Devekut
The reason behind it is, according to the transgendered Attorney (impy/clare/guac) is that. he was teaching me a lesson. He put my face on his account so that I can picture myself in his shoes. I don't believe that for one second. Total BS but they are all ok with it. Actually, the majority are disgusted but the prominent figures are ok with it.


It really doesn't matter what Jayne, Vox or Christulsa think about it.  IMO I would think it was a criminal offense of some kind.  Identity theft possibly?  And if Vox knows about it and doesn't do anything to correct it seeing she is the owner of the forum then she is contributing to the criminal offense as well.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on September 26, 2013, 11:45:14 PM
I agree. HE shouldn't have been using my photo as some sort of face to his appalling lifestyle. After I called him out on it he posted 3 or 4 more times before finally removing my face from his disgusting account. Vox thinks it isn't all that bad because it was for "only 2 minutes". It seemed much longer than that. It reminds me of this young female model whose image was used for an HIV ad without her knowledge or her consent. He was embarrassed and outraged. I'd hate for anyone to see his filthy account and see me walking down the street and assume I am him.

Now that pseudo SSPX christulsa is making threats to Whitey and myself. He says that we should be banned, called us the Jєωs that pointed their fingers at Jesus and screamed "crucifiy him!!!". He's obviously comparing gImpy to our Lord.  He wants us to admit that we were wrong and promise to never bother gImpy, Clare, Guacamole or ANYONE ever again or he hopes that we are banned.

I think the real issue with this liberal SSPX (wow, never thought I would say that!) guy is that he had a crush on the female character GUACAMOLE and now that myself and others have brought it out to the day light that SHE is actually a HE christulsa feels like he has to continue the charade otherwise he'll have to admit he liked a man.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 27, 2013, 04:20:36 AM
And now I see that St Pius of Trent has been warned by Vox after posting a Resistance/Sede topic.  If I were still there I'd be leaving willingly.  If that site remains it needs a major overhaul.


http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461028.0.html

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: poche on September 27, 2013, 04:31:55 AM
Quote from: Devekut
I agree. HE shouldn't have been using my photo as some sort of face to his appalling lifestyle. After I called him out on it he posted 3 or 4 more times before finally removing my face from his disgusting account. Vox thinks it isn't all that bad because it was for "only 2 minutes". It seemed much longer than that. It reminds me of this young female model whose image was used for an HIV ad without her knowledge or her consent. He was embarrassed and outraged. I'd hate for anyone to see his filthy account and see me walking down the street and assume I am him.

Now that pseudo SSPX christulsa is making threats to Whitey and myself. He says that we should be banned, called us the Jєωs that pointed their fingers at Jesus and screamed "crucifiy him!!!". He's obviously comparing gImpy to our Lord.  He wants us to admit that we were wrong and promise to never bother gImpy, Clare, Guacamole or ANYONE ever again or he hopes that we are banned.

I think the real issue with this liberal SSPX (wow, never thought I would say that!) guy is that he had a crush on the female character GUACAMOLE and now that myself and others have brought it out to the day light that SHE is actually a HE christulsa feels like he has to continue the charade otherwise he'll have to admit he liked a man.

I have news for you, it was longer than two minutes.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: poche on September 27, 2013, 04:40:12 AM
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now I see that St Pius of Trent has been warned by Vox after posting a Resistance/Sede topic.  If I were still there I'd be leaving willingly.  If that site remains it needs a major overhaul.


http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461028.0.html


They have a rule that they are willing to enforce that says that if you disrespect the pope you will be in trouble.

Matthew here says "Christ founded a visible Church with a priesthood, with a hierarchy and Pope at the head."

There is a traditionalist French language forum that says that if you disrespect the pope or Vatican II then you will be banned.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Stubborn on September 27, 2013, 04:57:16 AM
He'd have be fine if he posted about how to accept perverted queers for what they are.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: poche on September 27, 2013, 05:05:17 AM
Quote from: Stubborn
He'd have be fine if he posted about how to accept perverted queers for what they are.


It would be better if he posted on how to overcome obstacles to holiness or how to overcome temptation.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Stubborn on September 27, 2013, 05:15:18 AM
The point is, for the most part FE is a Catholic forum in name only. When you post anything strictly Catholic or against the NO, you quickly find you are a minority at FE and not welcome.  
 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 27, 2013, 06:37:14 AM
Quote from: Devekut
I'm the one whose image Impy/Clare/Guacamole stole for his own profile. I made a different user name for this forum, as MorganHiver isn't my real name anyway. The positive response that HE is receiving is absurd. Jayne, Vox, Christulsa (supposedly a staunch SSPX supporter) and so on have already made it clear that HE, as an unrepentant sinner, is welcome and that I deserved that weird reaction from him.

The thing that I find most strange and unsettling is that the image he used was from a post I made back in October 2011 showing a few pics from my wedding (traditional nuptial mass). This means one of two things. 1: He went digging through every post I ever made just to find an image of myself (I don't use a profile pic). or 2: He saved it to his hard drive the very same day I posted it. 1 would definitely be creepy but 2 is just outright frightening. I don't even want to know why he would have any of my images of his hard drive.

God Bless,
Thom


That is the key problem. It's not about gently guiding sinners back to God -- it's about embracing BOLD, UNREPENTANT sinners.

All of us have sinned, but the difference is that we are REPENTANT. We hate our sins; we have been to confession, and we will TRY to not sin again.

If someone wishes to remain a public sinner, choosing their sins over God, then we of the Body of Christ can only remonstrate with and pray for that person -- we can't invite him back in like nothing happened, ignoring the white elephant in the room.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on September 27, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
Quote from: Meg
Good assessment, St. Magnus, to which I would just add this: Vox mentioned on that thread that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Which is true, I think. But her description of what is meant by this seems to be that, for example, if an obviously very ill person ventures into or near the hospital but refuses to believe that he or she ill and also refuses treatment, that it's perfectly alright and acceptable for that person to stay in the hospital and harass others who try to rightly point out that that person suffers from a serious illness. What is the point of even going to the hospital if one refuses treatment because they don't believe that they are ill? But those on FE who rightly point out that sin is still sin, and that Our Lord told sinners to go and sin no more, are criticized on FE.

What's the point in even being a trad if sin is perfectly acceptable even to the point of being a protected right for a Catholic be able to engage in? That's where the scandal comes in, IMO.

I probably haven't explained it very well, but hopefully others here will get the gist of what I'm saying.


You explained it exceptionally well. That pin points with incredible insight exactly what the issue is. He does not think he is ill, boldly AND subtly tries to spread that illness to others (at least the mentality behind it), and is just having a field day with the ensuing chaos.

 As usual I'm finding that cultures of old were right on track with the way they treated this. It has to be straight up quarantined or cut off like the gangrene that it is. There is something about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity that is truly deeply dangerous. It isn't so much the physical sin but the complete and utter twisting of the mind and soul that goes along with it. Even people who are not tempted by the sin have to twist their minds to it in order to live "in peace" with the unrepentant ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ. If it weren't so horrifying it would almost be fascinating to study the depths human nature will go to to justify itself rather than admit illness. Vox has bought into the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ martyr complex hook, line and sinker and anyone who wants to be there has to abide by it. The bad thing is new people who don't know Impy and all he stands for will automatically defend "attacks" against him. They will have no idea what they are doing or getting into unless they are honest enough to look back.


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 27, 2013, 11:47:32 AM
Quote from: wallflower
Quote from: Meg
Good assessment, St. Magnus, to which I would just add this: Vox mentioned on that thread that the Church is a hospital for sinners. Which is true, I think. But her description of what is meant by this seems to be that, for example, if an obviously very ill person ventures into or near the hospital but refuses to believe that he or she ill and also refuses treatment, that it's perfectly alright and acceptable for that person to stay in the hospital and harass others who try to rightly point out that that person suffers from a serious illness. What is the point of even going to the hospital if one refuses treatment because they don't believe that they are ill? But those on FE who rightly point out that sin is still sin, and that Our Lord told sinners to go and sin no more, are criticized on FE.

What's the point in even being a trad if sin is perfectly acceptable even to the point of being a protected right for a Catholic be able to engage in? That's where the scandal comes in, IMO.

I probably haven't explained it very well, but hopefully others here will get the gist of what I'm saying.


You explained it exceptionally well. That pin points with incredible insight exactly what the issue is. He does not think he is ill, boldly AND subtly tries to spread that illness to others (at least the mentality behind it), and is just having a field day with the ensuing chaos.

 As usual I'm finding that cultures of old were right on track with the way they treated this. It has to be straight up quarantined or cut off like the gangrene that it is. There is something about ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity that is truly deeply dangerous. It isn't so much the physical sin but the complete and utter twisting of the mind and soul that goes along with it. Even people who are not tempted by the sin have to twist their minds to it in order to live "in peace" with the unrepentant ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ. If it weren't so horrifying it would almost be fascinating to study the depths human nature will go to to justify itself rather than admit illness. Vox has bought into the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ martyr complex hook, line and sinker and anyone who wants to be there has to abide by it. The bad thing is new people who don't know Impy and all he stands for will automatically defend "attacks" against him. They will have no idea what they are doing or getting into unless they are honest enough to look back.




Thanks, wallflower. You've raised good points here. I agree with what you've said about the depths to which human nature will go to justify itself rather than admit illness. And yes, Vox has bought into the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ martyr complex hook, line and sinker, and it's sad that everyone who wants to be there has to abide by it.

From what I can tell, Impy has convinced Vox that he is really a woman trapped in a man's body. She keeps bringing up the secret Vatican directive among other things as proof of Impy's condition. So for her, I don't she believes it's a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ problem, but rather it comes down to science, rather than sin. But then there's the revelation of the porn website situation which is gravely sinful despite the denial of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity by Impy. We have seen firsthand in this situation just how disordered ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is, and how manipulative it can be, which is sad for everyone concerned.

I have encouraged her, via email, to seek the advice of the FSSP priest at her parish, and to not leave any of the details out regarding the situation. She may indeed consult with him. I certainly hope so. I can't imagine that an FSSP priest would condone such behavior if he's given a complete picture of the situation.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on September 27, 2013, 11:48:11 AM
The bottom line is that Vox is running an insane asylum - and I think she should be one of the inmates. Call that uncharitable if you must, but she's gone off the deep end.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 27, 2013, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: Stubborn
The point is, for the most part FE is a Catholic forum in name only. When you post anything strictly Catholic or against the NO, you quickly find you are a minority at FE and not welcome.  
 


 :applause:

Proof

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461046.0.html

The thread has been moved to "the Cornfield", so non-members can no longer read it. You should paste a link, yes, but also paste the text here. Trad forums can be very unstable "stores" of information. A thread is here today, gone tomorrow.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 27, 2013, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
I'm just wondering how transgendered folks show that they have converted and repent that they did wrong.  Can they even change their sex back?

(I recognize that this may be a really stupid question)


They never "changed" it to begin with. One's sex is immutably, ontologically stamped upon his or her soul.

Everyone understood that implicitly up until very recently. That's why the sodomite agentists (personified at FE by that disgusting malakos-castrato he-whore "Impy / ClareBrigid / Guacamole") have resorted to using the grammatical term "gender" in place of sex. In so doing they have successfully convinced great swathes of people - explicitly or implicitly - that sex is merely a mutable social construct known as "gender."

Short of a miracle, nothing will restore a mutilated generative member, but a truly penitent sodomite would return to dressing, acting and speaking as much like a normal man as possible. This vile pufta, however, has taken to proudly proclaiming himself a heretic to justify his perversion, and deceptively posting under a new name (identified as "female") in order to continue deceiving well-meaning, ignorant souls... and all with the moderator's seal of approval.

Better for them that millstones be hung round their necks...

As I've said before, this FE rot is the natural result of placing women in authority in matters proper to men.

Sancte Pie Quinte, ora pro nobis.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Elizabeth on September 27, 2013, 04:39:36 PM
Quote from: Devekut
I'm the one whose image Impy/Clare/Guacamole stole for his own profile. I made a different user name for this forum, as MorganHiver isn't my real name anyway. The positive response that HE is receiving is absurd. Jayne, Vox, Christulsa (supposedly a staunch SSPX supporter) and so on have already made it clear that HE, as an unrepentant sinner, is welcome and that I deserved that weird reaction from him.

The thing that I find most strange and unsettling is that the image he used was from a post I made back in October 2011 showing a few pics from my wedding (traditional nuptial mass). This means one of two things. 1: He went digging through every post I ever made just to find an image of myself (I don't use a profile pic). or 2: He saved it to his hard drive the very same day I posted it. 1 would definitely be creepy but 2 is just outright frightening. I don't even want to know why he would have any of my images of his hard drive.

God Bless,
Thom


A new low in forum ethics has arrived.  So squalid !!!
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 27, 2013, 04:48:32 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Stubborn
The point is, for the most part FE is a Catholic forum in name only. When you post anything strictly Catholic or against the NO, you quickly find you are a minority at FE and not welcome.  
 


 :applause:

Proof

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461046.0.html

The thread has been moved to "the Cornfield", so non-members can no longer read it. You should paste a link, yes, but also paste the text here. Trad forums can be very unstable "stores" of information. A thread is here today, gone tomorrow.



Oh, I meant to post Vox's response to not allowing discussion of SV:

Sedevacantism isn't a thought crime; it just can't be allowed to be discussed because every thread turns into a debate about it. I tried it once.

Well maybe that's because people actually.....want to discuss it! Because it's relevant!

I call BS on this.  It would be very easy to have a separate room fro discussions on SV.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on September 27, 2013, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Oh, I meant to post Vox's response to not allowing discussion of SV:

Sedevacantism isn't a thought crime; it just can't be allowed to be discussed because every thread turns into a debate about it. I tried it once.

Well maybe that's because people actually.....want to discuss it! Because it's relevant!

I call BS on this.  It would be very easy to have a separate room fro discussions on SV.  


Liberals don't discuss anything. Their view is correct on any subject, and dissent isn't allowed.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 27, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: 2Vermont
Oh, I meant to post Vox's response to not allowing discussion of SV:

Sedevacantism isn't a thought crime; it just can't be allowed to be discussed because every thread turns into a debate about it. I tried it once.

Well maybe that's because people actually.....want to discuss it! Because it's relevant!

I call BS on this.  It would be very easy to have a separate room fro discussions on SV.  


Liberals don't discuss anything. Their view is correct on any subject, and dissent isn't allowed.


But there were/are posters there that are not liberal and do want to discuss this.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on September 27, 2013, 05:17:30 PM
I agree, and those posters usually find their way here. What I'm saying is, Vox (and Quis before that), because she's a liberal, won't allow any debate. Her opinion is all that matters.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 27, 2013, 05:20:01 PM
Gotcha.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on September 27, 2013, 07:11:32 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Stubborn
The point is, for the most part FE is a Catholic forum in name only. When you post anything strictly Catholic or against the NO, you quickly find you are a minority at FE and not welcome.  
 


 :applause:

Proof

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461046.0.html

The thread has been moved to "the Cornfield", so non-members can no longer read it. You should paste a link, yes, but also paste the text here. Trad forums can be very unstable "stores" of information. A thread is here today, gone tomorrow.



Oh, I meant to post Vox's response to not allowing discussion of SV:

Sedevacantism isn't a thought crime; it just can't be allowed to be discussed because every thread turns into a debate about it. I tried it once.

Well maybe that's because people actually.....want to discuss it! Because it's relevant!

I call BS on this.  It would be very easy to have a separate room fro discussions on SV.  


I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed this.  Here I was, coming out of retirement to post something new there, and bam.  Immediately shoved into the Cornfield.  

I'm always a thread killer, I guess.  Speaking of thread killers, I'm betting this thread is over.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on September 27, 2013, 07:37:51 PM
Quote from: Matthew


That is the key problem. It's not about gently guiding sinners back to God -- it's about embracing BOLD, UNREPENTANT sinners.

All of us have sinned, but the difference is that we are REPENTANT. We hate our sins; we have been to confession, and we will TRY to not sin again.

If someone wishes to remain a public sinner, choosing their sins over God, then we of the Body of Christ can only remonstrate with and pray for that person -- we can't invite him back in like nothing happened, ignoring the white elephant in the room.


I agree with your statement. There is supposed to be a secret docuмent, conveniently titled SUB SECRETUM which advocates physical gender reassignment, as long as it puts inner turmoil to rest. However, after searching for the docuмent from the official source I came up fruitless. All the liberal sites that host it can trace their source back to TIA. Nothing official from the Vatican and no priest or bishop has heard of it. Apparently TIA isn't a very reliable source.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 28, 2013, 01:47:12 AM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Stubborn
The point is, for the most part FE is a Catholic forum in name only. When you post anything strictly Catholic or against the NO, you quickly find you are a minority at FE and not welcome.  
 


 :applause:

Proof

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461046.0.html

The thread has been moved to "the Cornfield", so non-members can no longer read it. You should paste a link, yes, but also paste the text here. Trad forums can be very unstable "stores" of information. A thread is here today, gone tomorrow.



Oh, I meant to post Vox's response to not allowing discussion of SV:

Sedevacantism isn't a thought crime; it just can't be allowed to be discussed because every thread turns into a debate about it. I tried it once.

Well maybe that's because people actually.....want to discuss it! Because it's relevant!

I call BS on this.  It would be very easy to have a separate room fro discussions on SV.  


I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed this.  Here I was, coming out of retirement to post something new there, and bam.  Immediately shoved into the Cornfield.  

I'm always a thread killer, I guess.  Speaking of thread killers, I'm betting this thread is over.  


 Please.

As noted after the thread was moved to the "cornfield", you are the one that got it moved. The OP did not present it as an argument for the Sede thesis. YOU had a knee jerk reaction and made it into a sede discussion which you know she won't allow. The op is nothing but solid Catholic info/reading/quotes from Saints and Popes.

You are just like the usual suspects at CA. Don't like a thread topic ? No problem, start crap and get it closed. And that is apparently what FE has become. The act of moving that thread to the "cornfield" instead of ripping your rear for introducing a banned topic into the thread is the second most appalling thing Vox has done, with the approval of the tranny freak being the first.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on September 28, 2013, 02:07:01 AM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Stubborn
The point is, for the most part FE is a Catholic forum in name only. When you post anything strictly Catholic or against the NO, you quickly find you are a minority at FE and not welcome.  
 


 :applause:

Proof

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461046.0.html

The thread has been moved to "the Cornfield", so non-members can no longer read it. You should paste a link, yes, but also paste the text here. Trad forums can be very unstable "stores" of information. A thread is here today, gone tomorrow.



Oh, I meant to post Vox's response to not allowing discussion of SV:

Sedevacantism isn't a thought crime; it just can't be allowed to be discussed because every thread turns into a debate about it. I tried it once.

Well maybe that's because people actually.....want to discuss it! Because it's relevant!

I call BS on this.  It would be very easy to have a separate room fro discussions on SV.  


I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed this.  Here I was, coming out of retirement to post something new there, and bam.  Immediately shoved into the Cornfield.  

I'm always a thread killer, I guess.  Speaking of thread killers, I'm betting this thread is over.  


 Please.

As noted after the thread was moved to the "cornfield", you are the one that got it moved. The OP did not present it as an argument for the Sede thesis. YOU had a knee jerk reaction and made it into a sede discussion which you know she won't allow. The op is nothing but solid Catholic info/reading/quotes from Saints and Popes.

You are just like the usual suspects at CA. Don't like a thread topic ? No problem, start crap and get it closed. And that is apparently what FE has become. The act of moving that thread to the "cornfield" instead of ripping your rear for introducing a banned topic into the thread is the second most appalling thing Vox has done, with the approval of the tranny freak being the first.


Oh, gosh!  You got me!  I conspired with Vox to take down the thread on sedevacantism.  I haven't posted there since TranssɛҳuąƖgate, but I've been in open communication with Vox the entire time.  In fact, I personally moved it to the Cornfield.  Yup.  It's true.  I went over to the computer wherever Vox is at, and I got on there and moved that thread straight away into the Cornfield.  Because I just don't want ANYBODY talking about sedevacantism, and the quicker all talk is snuffed out, the better.

 :farmer:

I'm glad.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on September 28, 2013, 02:23:40 AM
 Laramie,

I'm going to ask Matthew if it's ok to post the op and your reply from that thread here. I didn't realize non-members could not see the "cornfield" threads. I'll ask the OP if it's ok to do so as well.

I'm sure you won't mind if I quote your words here ?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on September 28, 2013, 02:36:35 AM
Quote from: St Magnus
Laramie,

I'm going to ask Matthew if it's ok to post the op and your reply from that thread here. I didn't realize non-members could not see the "cornfield" threads. I'll ask the OP if it's ok to do so as well.

I'm sure you won't mind if I quote your words here ?


Whatever is your fancy.

But my reply is already on Cathinfo: http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Sedevacantism-is-schismatic


# # # #

I saw that Fisheater thread as an opportunity to come out of dormancy for a minute and post something current that I thought.  

You'll be interested to note that I've posted basically the same statement at:

The Hirsch Files:  http://thehirschfiles.blogspot.com/2013/09/sedevacantism-part-3_26.html
Cathinfo
Suscipe Domine
Fisheaters
Catholic Answers Forum


I've posted in these places because...well, because.  I've posted in these places many times in the past, so why not?

What is interesting, St Magnus, is the fact that Vox took the thread down in the first place.  I mean, it was not even a thread attacking transsɛҳuąƖism.  Yet, Vox Clamantis still had the energy and hair-trigger reaction paranoia to take a conversation about sedevacantism down.  

If anything, people here would say that my thoughts on sedevacantism are in line with what Vox would parrot over at Fisheaters.  If so, why would Vox take the thread down because of me?  

The thing that frustrates me about that thread is the fact that the conversation is not being allowed.  I thought we saw eye to eye on that.  

Meh.


# # # #

Oh, PS.  When I posted my statement over at CAF, they immediately took it down, and it's nowhere to be found on their forum.  

Yet another place where the conversation is disallowed.  But folks sort expect that from them.  I wonder how their fundraiser is going.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 28, 2013, 07:25:43 AM
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 28, 2013, 07:37:22 AM
Quote from: Devekut
Quote from: Matthew


That is the key problem. It's not about gently guiding sinners back to God -- it's about embracing BOLD, UNREPENTANT sinners.

All of us have sinned, but the difference is that we are REPENTANT. We hate our sins; we have been to confession, and we will TRY to not sin again.

If someone wishes to remain a public sinner, choosing their sins over God, then we of the Body of Christ can only remonstrate with and pray for that person -- we can't invite him back in like nothing happened, ignoring the white elephant in the room.


I agree with your statement. There is supposed to be a secret docuмent, conveniently titled SUB SECRETUM which advocates physical gender reassignment, as long as it puts inner turmoil to rest. However, after searching for the docuмent from the official source I came up fruitless. All the liberal sites that host it can trace their source back to TIA. Nothing official from the Vatican and no priest or bishop has heard of it. Apparently TIA isn't a very reliable source.


Sub Secretum or no, it's a newchurch docuмent.  Trads don't hang their hats on newchurch docuмents period.  That was what really made it a joke.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 28, 2013, 02:15:39 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




You'll notice that on that thread that Vox posts an email exchange between herself and the "former forum member." Well, that's me. I contacted her to try to get her see reason and to consult with a qualified priest. But what's she's doing  now is asking that everyone use her material to take to traditional priests in order to ask their advice on the subject. But that's her job - to seek out a good priest to talk to - which she is unwilling to do.

It's all so bizarre.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 28, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




That sodomy-enabling harridan has now sunk to sub-CAF levels.

No Catholic should post there. I advise everyone reading these words who still posts on FE to flee that fag-haven, pray for its demise, and never look back.

"Remember Lot's wife."
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 28, 2013, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: Meg
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




You'll notice that on that thread that Vox posts an email exchange between herself and the "former forum member." Well, that's me. I contacted her to try to get her see reason and to consult with a qualified priest. But what's she's doing  now is asking that everyone use her material to take to traditional priests in order to ask their advice on the subject. But that's her job - to seek out a good priest to talk to - which she is unwilling to do.

It's all so bizarre.


She's complicating something that is entirely uncomplicated. She'd see that herself if her own sins hadn't darkened her intellect.

Her Sensus Catholicus is about as well developed as Aleister Crowley's.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on September 28, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
Quote from: BTNYC
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




That sodomy-enabling harridan has now sunk to sub-CAF levels.

No Catholic should post there. I advise everyone reading these words who still posts on FE to flee that fag-haven, pray for its demise, and never look back.

"Remember Lot's wife."


I spoke to my priest, a good Trad priest who is in full communion with Rome and he basically said the same thing with a bit more charity. He said that she allowed Satan to enter the forum. He thinks I should (and everyone else) should "shake off the dust and walk away from it". I couldn't agree more.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 28, 2013, 03:09:42 PM
Quote from: Devekut
Quote from: BTNYC
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




That sodomy-enabling harridan has now sunk to sub-CAF levels.

No Catholic should post there. I advise everyone reading these words who still posts on FE to flee that fag-haven, pray for its demise, and never look back.

"Remember Lot's wife."


I spoke to my priest, a good Trad priest who is in full communion with Rome and he basically said the same thing with a bit more charity. He said that she allowed Satan to enter the forum. He thinks I should (and everyone else) should "shake off the dust and walk away from it". I couldn't agree more.


Couldn't you find a good trad priest who is closer to 65% or maybe 58% in communion with Rome?  

Watch the triumphalism, now.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on September 28, 2013, 03:26:23 PM
I didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess you didn't read Vox's demands, though. She said that anyone who wishes to continue the tranny discussion on her forum without being banned had to have presented her weird print out to at least two trad priests in full communion with Rome. She prefers that they not be NO or sedes.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 28, 2013, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: Devekut
I didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess you didn't read Vox's demands, though. She said that anyone who wishes to continue the tranny discussion on her forum without being banned had to have presented her weird print out to at least two trad priests in full communion with Rome. She prefers that they not be NO or sedes.


Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed; then Eve. And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

First Epistle of St Paul to Timothy 2:11-15
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 28, 2013, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: Devekut
I didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess you didn't read Vox's demands, though. She said that anyone who wishes to continue the tranny discussion on her forum without being banned had to have presented her weird print out to at least two trad priests in full communion with Rome. She prefers that they not be NO or sedes.


Trad priest in full communion with the VII sect and not Novus Ordo?

So.... there are probably, what, five people in the entire world that could sign that docuмent?  Very good.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 28, 2013, 03:41:39 PM
I will say this about that --

Abstracting from everything Vox has done and said, she is also a female. It is fundamentally a bad idea for a woman to be a leader of anything, except for maybe the head of a classroom of children, maybe the head nurse in a given wing of a hospital, or Mother Superior of a convent.

But certainly nothing that has a lot of men in it.

It's just not what God had in mind for women.

And only a liberal would suggest that "women are as good as men" or that the difference between the sexes amounts to trivial differences in "plumbing" or anything like that.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 28, 2013, 04:05:34 PM
Quote from: Matthew
I will say this about that --

Abstracting from everything Vox has done and said, she is also a female. It is fundamentally a bad idea for a woman to be a leader of anything, except for maybe the head of a classroom of children, maybe the head nurse in a given wing of a hospital, or Mother Superior of a convent.

It's just not what God had in mind for women.

And only a liberal would suggest that "women are as good as men" or that the difference between the sexes amounts to trivial differences in "plumbing" or anything like that.


I agree. We can also look to the Latin Mass as an example of this. Women are not allowed in the sanctuary at all. Nor are they ushers, and they don't collect the offeratory money. They also do not lead the Rosary if it is prayed before Mass. Not that women are completely passive, since both sexes participate at Mass in the same manner. But it seems that the role of a woman at Mass should also reflect a woman's role outside of Mass as well. That's something I'm beginning to realize more and more. So the fiasco at FE is at least good for something, as an example of why it's not a good idea for a woman to have a forum or control over others.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 28, 2013, 06:09:05 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: Devekut
I didn't mean to offend anyone. I guess you didn't read Vox's demands, though. She said that anyone who wishes to continue the tranny discussion on her forum without being banned had to have presented her weird print out to at least two trad priests in full communion with Rome. She prefers that they not be NO or sedes.


Trad priest in full communion with the VII sect and not Novus Ordo?

So.... there are probably, what, five people in the entire world that could sign that docuмent?  Very good.  


::snort::

When we started this thread I did not think that forum should shut down but more and more I think it should (or at least get new ownership).
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: GottmitunsAlex on September 28, 2013, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: Matthew
I will say this about that --

Abstracting from everything Vox has done and said, she is also a female. It is fundamentally a bad idea for a woman to be a leader of anything, except for maybe the head of a classroom of children, maybe the head nurse in a given wing of a hospital, or Mother Superior of a convent.

But certainly nothing that has a lot of men in it.

It's just not what God had in mind for women.

And only a liberal would suggest that "women are as good as men" or that the difference between the sexes amounts to trivial differences in "plumbing" or anything like that.

This.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: DominvsSabaoth on September 28, 2013, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: GottmitunsAlex
Quote from: Matthew
I will say this about that --

Abstracting from everything Vox has done and said, she is also a female. It is fundamentally a bad idea for a woman to be a leader of anything, except for maybe the head of a classroom of children, maybe the head nurse in a given wing of a hospital, or Mother Superior of a convent.

But certainly nothing that has a lot of men in it.

It's just not what God had in mind for women.

And only a liberal would suggest that "women are as good as men" or that the difference between the sexes amounts to trivial differences in "plumbing" or anything like that.

This.


what about mother superior of a womens religious order?
a girls school?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: GottmitunsAlex on September 28, 2013, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Quote from: GottmitunsAlex
Quote from: Matthew
I will say this about that --

Abstracting from everything Vox has done and said, she is also a female. It is fundamentally a bad idea for a woman to be a leader of anything, except for maybe the head of a classroom of children, maybe the head nurse in a given wing of a hospital, or Mother Superior of a convent.

But certainly nothing that has a lot of men in it.

It's just not what God had in mind for women.

And only a liberal would suggest that "women are as good as men" or that the difference between the sexes amounts to trivial differences in "plumbing" or anything like that.

This.


what about mother superior of a womens religious order?
a girls school?

Please read the complete quote.  :reading:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: DominvsSabaoth on September 28, 2013, 09:09:58 PM
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 28, 2013, 09:29:12 PM
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: DominvsSabaoth on September 28, 2013, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.

gee, to think I thought the dimond brothers were the most spiteful folk around
you take the bacon now, bub
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: GottmitunsAlex on September 28, 2013, 09:46:32 PM
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.

gee, to think I thought the dimond brothers were the most spiteful folk around
you take the bacon now, bub


We can actually eat bacon without incurring in sin.
 :pray:

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: DominvsSabaoth on September 28, 2013, 09:53:13 PM
Dimond throws around the word "notorious heretic" a ton.
if you ask me, when he says it it doesn't mean a thing.  He calls Lefebvre, Fr ringrose of st athanasius, all NO bishops, and McKenna by this name.
he also says "mother Theresa is surely one of the greatest apostates of the twentieth century"
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on September 28, 2013, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




Yeah I like how Devekut (MorganHiver) is holding Vox's feet to the fire by posting what a priest had to say about it in that thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.msg33929355.html#msg33929355

But Vox is twisting it by saying "one for my side".

Wallflower gave Vox a lot to think about in this post in that same thread too.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.msg33929354.html#msg33929354

But even that is flying over Vox's head.  She's not catching anything.

I totally agree with Matthew, Meg and BTNYC when they say that a woman should not be running a traditional Catholic forum.  But it goes a lot further than that.  Back in March of this year in that "homo come out" thread at the FE lavender forum, where Vox, Jayne and a couple of others were putting Impy and a view others up on a pedestal for coming out, well in that same thread Vox came out herself saying that she is bipolar.  Personally I don't think Vox is in a proper mental state to be running a traditional Catholic forum.  You can find where Vox came out herself in this long thread, I think it's about three quarters of the way through the thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3457508.0.html

I got banned from that lavender forum shortly after that topic last March, when I called Impy out for making a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ innuendo and for scolding Impy when he slandered a title of Our Lady.  So I have thought that lavender forum should have been shut down long ago.  Yeah, the web site part of the forum is good, but like Mithrandylan said everything that's on the web site part of the forum can be found elsewhere on the internet.

I haven't missed the lavender forum at all but I am following this hoping that it will be shut down.  That forum needs to be shut down.  I don't even think that the forum should be passed on to someone else.  I say that because if Vox handed it over to someone else it would be to someone that would keep it's traditional lavender agenda, like Jayne the self professed former gαy rights activist.  That's right, Jayne said that she used to be a gαy rights activist before she converted.  It seems like she hasn't fully converted yet.  If I need to find where Jayne said this in the SD forum to prove what I just said then I will.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: poche on September 28, 2013, 11:20:39 PM
Quote from: GottmitunsAlex
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.

gee, to think I thought the dimond brothers were the most spiteful folk around
you take the bacon now, bub


We can actually eat bacon without incurring in sin.
 :pray:


On Friday?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 29, 2013, 01:40:22 AM
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Dimond throws around the word "notorious heretic" a ton.
if you ask me, when he says it it doesn't mean a thing.  He calls Lefebvre, Fr ringrose of st athanasius, all NO bishops, and McKenna by this name.
he also says "mother Theresa is surely one of the greatest apostates of the twentieth century"


What do the Dimonds have to do with anything?

What has any of this to do with Fisheaters having become notable (read:notorious) for being the "trad" forum that's owned by an adulteress and promotes fαɢɢօtry and transsɛҳuąƖism?

If it's spiteful to pray for the demise of a forum that spits on Natural Law and flouts the Rights of God to a degree that even heresy havens like CAF have never approached - all while falsely representing itself as "Traditional" - then count me among the most spiteful.

A little more "spitefulness" and a little less "Who Am I To JudgeTM" and maybe the Church wouldn't be in such dire straits.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 29, 2013, 06:38:27 AM
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.

gee, to think I thought the dimond brothers were the most spiteful folk around
you take the bacon now, bub


There are certain posters on this board who I think could give the DB's a run for their money for being uncharitable, spiteful etc but MD is not one of them.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 29, 2013, 06:54:06 AM
Quote from: BTNYC
Quote from: Meg
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




You'll notice that on that thread that Vox posts an email exchange between herself and the "former forum member." Well, that's me. I contacted her to try to get her see reason and to consult with a qualified priest. But what's she's doing  now is asking that everyone use her material to take to traditional priests in order to ask their advice on the subject. But that's her job - to seek out a good priest to talk to - which she is unwilling to do.

It's all so bizarre.


She's complicating something that is entirely uncomplicated. She'd see that herself if her own sins hadn't darkened her intellect.

Her Sensus Catholicus is about as well developed as Aleister Crowley's.


Seriously.  What a circus.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 29, 2013, 08:33:45 AM
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.

gee, to think I thought the dimond brothers were the most spiteful folk around
you take the bacon now, bub


Hi DS.

I'm going to fry up some bacon when I get back from mass this morning.  Thanks for reminding me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 29, 2013, 11:13:07 AM
Quote from: Devekut
Quote from: BTNYC
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




That sodomy-enabling harridan has now sunk to sub-CAF levels.

No Catholic should post there. I advise everyone reading these words who still posts on FE to flee that fag-haven, pray for its demise, and never look back.

"Remember Lot's wife."


I spoke to my priest, a good Trad priest who is in full communion with Rome and he basically said the same thing with a bit more charity. He said that she allowed Satan to enter the forum. He thinks I should (and everyone else) should "shake off the dust and walk away from it". I couldn't agree more.


I just saw your latest post there.  Of course it's "too challenging".  I don't sense a genuine desire there.  It was doomed to failure.  It's a joke.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on September 29, 2013, 11:22:27 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: DominvsSabaoth
Please pray for FE
fisheaters has been doing good work for the furtherance of the one true catholic faith.
you sedes and resistance-ers may not like it. But we must agree, the site holds a great deal of useful information


We'll pray that it shuts down.

All the information on FE can be found other places on the internet.

There is no longer any justification for that stain to remain.

gee, to think I thought the dimond brothers were the most spiteful folk around
you take the bacon now, bub


Hi DS.

I'm going to fry up some bacon when I get back from mass this morning.  Thanks for reminding me.


I just fried up some for the youngins.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 29, 2013, 11:53:29 AM
I think that Vox's idea of forum members giving her material on transgenderism to two priests in order to gain their input is going to have more negative consequences that she realized. But if it helps to quicken the shut down of the forum, that would be a good thing.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Immaculata001 on September 29, 2013, 12:45:48 PM
Oh my goodness. If what was stated below is true, that she is diagnosed as bipolar, she should not be running the forum.

"Mental illnesses" like bipolar disorder have been wildly overdiagnosed, so that pharmaceutical companies can turn profit; however, if her diagnose is valid, it's an extremely serious and severe illness akin to schizophrenia (Virginia Woolf was bipolar and committed ѕυιcιdє). Having intense debates with dozens of people and assuming leadership responsibility for a highly visible outlet like FE is NOT the job for someone who is bipolar. It may be a manic trigger for her, making her symptoms worse.

There's a larger issue, though, of how this is related to the collapse of the Catholic Church. I've heard of her forum referred to as an "apostolate." In the past, the Church always had priests leading and guiding apostolates and any outlet that affected a large number of parishioners. There was abundant monetary and social support for the Church in every country.

All of that is gone. There are not enough priests. So, lay people who are vulnerable, sometimes in error, have character defects and are mentally ill are hosting and leading outlets that affect thousands of Catholics. This shouldn't be happening and is the real problem, but there is no solution because of the post V2 collapse.


Quote from: mikemac
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




Yeah I like how Devekut (MorganHiver) is holding Vox's feet to the fire by posting what a priest had to say about it in that thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.msg33929355.html#msg33929355

But Vox is twisting it by saying "one for my side".

Wallflower gave Vox a lot to think about in this post in that same thread too.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.msg33929354.html#msg33929354

But even that is flying over Vox's head.  She's not catching anything.

I totally agree with Matthew, Meg and BTNYC when they say that a woman should not be running a traditional Catholic forum.  But it goes a lot further than that.  Back in March of this year in that "homo come out" thread at the FE lavender forum, where Vox, Jayne and a couple of others were putting Impy and a view others up on a pedestal for coming out, well in that same thread Vox came out herself saying that she is bipolar.  Personally I don't think Vox is in a proper mental state to be running a traditional Catholic forum.  You can find where Vox came out herself in this long thread, I think it's about three quarters of the way through the thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3457508.0.html

I got banned from that lavender forum shortly after that topic last March, when I called Impy out for making a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ innuendo and for scolding Impy when he slandered a title of Our Lady.  So I have thought that lavender forum should have been shut down long ago.  Yeah, the web site part of the forum is good, but like Mithrandylan said everything that's on the web site part of the forum can be found elsewhere on the internet.

I haven't missed the lavender forum at all but I am following this hoping that it will be shut down.  That forum needs to be shut down.  I don't even think that the forum should be passed on to someone else.  I say that because if Vox handed it over to someone else it would be to someone that would keep it's traditional lavender agenda, like Jayne the self professed former gαy rights activist.  That's right, Jayne said that she used to be a gαy rights activist before she converted.  It seems like she hasn't fully converted yet.  If I need to find where Jayne said this in the SD forum to prove what I just said then I will.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 29, 2013, 12:48:48 PM
Quote from: Immaculata001
Oh my goodness. If what was stated below is true, that she is diagnosed as bipolar, she should not be running the forum.

"Mental illnesses" like bipolar disorder have been wildly overdiagnosed, so that pharmaceutical companies can turn profit; however, if her diagnose is valid, it's an extremely serious and severe illness akin to schizophrenia (Virginia Woolf was bipolar and committed ѕυιcιdє). Having intense debates with dozens of people and assuming leadership responsibility for a highly visible outlet like FE is NOT the job for someone who is bipolar. It may be a manic trigger for her, making her symptoms worse.


That's a really good point although I would think someone who is bipolar would be medicated appropriately.  Then again, it might explain some of her flip-flop decisions.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on September 29, 2013, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Immaculata001
Oh my goodness. If what was stated below is true, that she is diagnosed as bipolar, she should not be running the forum.

"Mental illnesses" like bipolar disorder have been wildly overdiagnosed, so that pharmaceutical companies can turn profit; however, if her diagnose is valid, it's an extremely serious and severe illness akin to schizophrenia (Virginia Woolf was bipolar and committed ѕυιcιdє). Having intense debates with dozens of people and assuming leadership responsibility for a highly visible outlet like FE is NOT the job for someone who is bipolar. It may be a manic trigger for her, making her symptoms worse.


That's a really good point although I would think someone who is bipolar would be medicated appropriately.  Then again, it might explain some of her flip-flop decisions.


I somehow missed mikemac's post as well as Vox's admission of bipolar disorder*. Had I known, I may not have written that post. I pick up a super-intense emotional roller-coaster vibe from her, especially in the posts about the forum being an apostolate. I chalked it up to temperament (as well as being a woman). Some temperaments are much more touchy-feely and emotionally-driven than others. That's why I thought she just had a big heart and went overboard with it to her detriment.

But if bipolar is involved, it changes things quite a bit. I agree it's all the more reason to take down the forum. Leave up the main part and let it be an anonymous gift to those who come upon it. She doesn't HAVE to get letters, let God count up the graces in heaven. The "fame" and pressure for good and for bad would be hard for anyone to balance, much less someone who is bipolar. Even if it's over-diagnosed, there still has to be a basic instability to allow for the misdiagnosis in the first place.

*Now I know why, it was a thread I thankfully missed. Just read the last few pages. People really need to get away from the idea that it's ok for someone with SSA to identify as ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ. Does a husband with temptations against his vows run around identifying as an adulterer who just wants to be loved and needs to talk about his temptations with his lovely assistant? Would Vox make t-shirts that say "I am Trad Catholic and I love adulterers?" just to make him feel better that his temptations are not his fault? (Which isn't quite accurate btw, we are often responsible for our temptations. Not always, but often.) Identifying with your temptations as if they are some profound part of your being is such a bad idea. NO other sin/temptation demands this special treatment. "I am Trad Catholic and I love murderers!" "I am trad Catholic and I love thieves!" "I am trad Catholic and I love aborters!" Yes, we love the people and they often need someone to talk to, preferably a good priest or psychiatrist, but this whole idea that homos need a special pedestal to talk to the world about how frail and downtrodden they are is insane.

Step 1: familiarity, remove the stigma, desensitize the populous. The "ew, sick" reaction is God-given instinct and has likely saved many souls from experimenting down that path, so the first thing to do is wear away that reaction. Make fun of those still innocent enough to react that way; shame those still smart enough to react that way; and most importantly teach young ones that it's mean to react that way. You'll have a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ population within 50 years, and bonus -- with Catholics enabling it with their false charity.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 29, 2013, 05:27:09 PM
I am extremely leery of modern psychology and its diagnoses.

I often hear modernist exegetes dismiss the accounts of demonic posession in Church history and in the Gospels... The usual line is "these people were probably mentally ill," i.e. bipolar, schizophrenic, etc.

To that I say: Maybe they really were demonically possessed. And maybe many of those going about today wearing such exculpating diagnoses on their sleeves are possessed as well.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on September 29, 2013, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Immaculata001
Oh my goodness. If what was stated below is true, that she is diagnosed as bipolar, she should not be running the forum.

"Mental illnesses" like bipolar disorder have been wildly overdiagnosed, so that pharmaceutical companies can turn profit; however, if her diagnose is valid, it's an extremely serious and severe illness akin to schizophrenia (Virginia Woolf was bipolar and committed ѕυιcιdє). Having intense debates with dozens of people and assuming leadership responsibility for a highly visible outlet like FE is NOT the job for someone who is bipolar. It may be a manic trigger for her, making her symptoms worse.

There's a larger issue, though, of how this is related to the collapse of the Catholic Church. I've heard of her forum referred to as an "apostolate." In the past, the Church always had priests leading and guiding apostolates and any outlet that affected a large number of parishioners. There was abundant monetary and social support for the Church in every country.

All of that is gone. There are not enough priests. So, lay people who are vulnerable, sometimes in error, have character defects and are mentally ill are hosting and leading outlets that affect thousands of Catholics. This shouldn't be happening and is the real problem, but there is no solution because of the post V2 collapse.


Quote from: mikemac
Quote from: 2Vermont
And now Vox has banned discussions of transgenderism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.0.html




Yeah I like how Devekut (MorganHiver) is holding Vox's feet to the fire by posting what a priest had to say about it in that thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.msg33929355.html#msg33929355

But Vox is twisting it by saying "one for my side".

Wallflower gave Vox a lot to think about in this post in that same thread too.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461063.msg33929354.html#msg33929354

But even that is flying over Vox's head.  She's not catching anything.

I totally agree with Matthew, Meg and BTNYC when they say that a woman should not be running a traditional Catholic forum.  But it goes a lot further than that.  Back in March of this year in that "homo come out" thread at the FE lavender forum, where Vox, Jayne and a couple of others were putting Impy and a view others up on a pedestal for coming out, well in that same thread Vox came out herself saying that she is bipolar.  Personally I don't think Vox is in a proper mental state to be running a traditional Catholic forum.  You can find where Vox came out herself in this long thread, I think it's about three quarters of the way through the thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3457508.0.html

I got banned from that lavender forum shortly after that topic last March, when I called Impy out for making a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ innuendo and for scolding Impy when he slandered a title of Our Lady.  So I have thought that lavender forum should have been shut down long ago.  Yeah, the web site part of the forum is good, but like Mithrandylan said everything that's on the web site part of the forum can be found elsewhere on the internet.

I haven't missed the lavender forum at all but I am following this hoping that it will be shut down.  That forum needs to be shut down.  I don't even think that the forum should be passed on to someone else.  I say that because if Vox handed it over to someone else it would be to someone that would keep it's traditional lavender agenda, like Jayne the self professed former gαy rights activist.  That's right, Jayne said that she used to be a gαy rights activist before she converted.  It seems like she hasn't fully converted yet.  If I need to find where Jayne said this in the SD forum to prove what I just said then I will.


It's true Immaculata001.  I took the time to find it in that long disgusting thread.  In Reply #244 on page 25 of the thread Vox Clamantis says;

"BTW, hello, I'm Tracy, and I'm a bipolar person who smokes way too much and suffers from a busticated heart, both physically and metaphorically. Nice to meet you."

You can read it here.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3457508.msg33876813.html#msg33876813

By the way that thread titled "Catholics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity" is when the homo love fest started at that lavender forum.  It almost seemed like it was orchestrated where Impy and a couple of other homos were waiting in the sidelines to "come out" so Vox, Jayne and a couple others could congratulate them, put them up on a pedestal and encourage them.

Meanwhile if you read the opening post in the thread Beno started it to complain about the homos in a seminary that he attended.  But right from the first reply Impy (Clare Brigid) tried to change the tone of the thread.  I've often thought that thread should have followed the line where members could post about good seminaries that were not infiltrated with homos, you know so good young men that were discerning the priesthood wouldn't get turned off or approached by ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs in the seminaries they attended.  But it didn't take long for that thread to turn into a "homo come out" love fest.  It wasn't a good experience at all.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on September 29, 2013, 08:08:34 PM
Quote from: BTNYC
I am extremely leery of modern psychology and its diagnoses.

I often hear modernist exegetes dismiss the accounts of demonic posession in Church history and in the Gospels... The usual line is "these people were probably mentally ill," i.e. bipolar, schizophrenic, etc.

To that I say: Maybe they really were demonically possessed. And maybe many of those going about today wearing such exculpating diagnoses on their sleeves are possessed as well.


I have often thought the same BTNYC.  It's a shame, cause in reality these poor souls that have been diagnosed with a mental illness could get real help from an exorcist.  Well if modernist bishops hadn't have said that we don't need exorcists anymore.  Father Gabriele Amorth is trying to change that direction.  Personally I think the Freudian industry does more harm than good.  I have read that all of the mass shootings like Columbine, Colorado and the like have been done by people that were being treated for mental illness with psychotropic or anti-depressant medication prescribed by psychiatrists.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 29, 2013, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: mikemac


It's true Immaculata001.  I took the time to find it in that long disgusting thread.  In Reply #244 on page 25 of the thread Vox Clamantis says;

"BTW, hello, I'm Tracy, and I'm a bipolar person who smokes way too much and suffers from a busticated heart, both physically and metaphorically. Nice to meet you."

You can read it here.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3457508.msg33876813.html#msg33876813

By the way that thread titled "Catholics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity" is when the homo love fest started at that lavender forum.  It almost seemed like it was orchestrated where Impy and a couple of other homos were waiting in the sidelines to "come out" so Vox, Jayne and a couple others could congratulate them, put them up on a pedestal and encourage them.

Meanwhile if you read the opening post in the thread Beno started it to complain about the homos in a seminary that he attended.  But right from the first reply Impy (Clare Brigid) tried to change the tone of the thread.  I've often thought that thread should have followed the line where members could post about good seminaries that were not infiltrated with homos, you know so good young men that were discerning the priesthood wouldn't get turned off or approached by ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs in the seminaries they attended.  But it didn't take long for that thread to turn into a "homo come out" love fest.  It wasn't a good experience at all.


There's an older thread from 2012 that's similar:

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3454922.msg33828256.html#msg33828256
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on September 29, 2013, 10:34:32 PM
Oh right, I remember that thread now Meg.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: AlligatorDicax on September 29, 2013, 11:27:59 PM
Quote from: mikemac (Sep 28, 2013, 11:28 pm)
[....] well in that same thread Vox came out herself saying that she is bipolar. [....]  You can find where Vox came out herself in this long thread, I think it's about three quarters of the way through the thread.

The last time I looked, 1/2 year ago, Vox's open confession to being bipolar could be confirmed on a more directly accessible Web page (thus sparing readers an exercise in slogging thro'  a long unpleasant thread): http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html (http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html).  

In my draft of this reply, I'd already included a brief excerpt below, under the 'critical review-&-comment' exemption of U.S. copyright law, but decided to withdraw it, after noticing that no one here seems to excerpt or quote FE postings.

I apologize for being unable to verify that it's still out there. For the last few months, DNS for my Internet service inexplicably insists that FE is out at an IPA beginning "192.", making it inaccessible to me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on September 30, 2013, 04:28:39 AM
Quote from: mikemac
Quote from: BTNYC
I am extremely leery of modern psychology and its diagnoses.

I often hear modernist exegetes dismiss the accounts of demonic posession in Church history and in the Gospels... The usual line is "these people were probably mentally ill," i.e. bipolar, schizophrenic, etc.

To that I say: Maybe they really were demonically possessed. And maybe many of those going about today wearing such exculpating diagnoses on their sleeves are possessed as well.


I have often thought the same BTNYC.  It's a shame, cause in reality these poor souls that have been diagnosed with a mental illness could get real help from an exorcist.  Well if modernist bishops hadn't have said that we don't need exorcists anymore.  Father Gabriele Amorth is trying to change that direction.  Personally I think the Freudian industry does more harm than good.  I have read that all of the mass shootings like Columbine, Colorado and the like have been done by people that were being treated for mental illness with psychotropic or anti-depressant medication prescribed by psychiatrists.


I always thought that even the Church recognizes certain mental issues.  It's been years since I read it, but I thought Father Amorth stated in a book about exorcisms that the Church first determines whether there is a psychological/mental reason for whatever the person is experiencing.  When the Church determines it is not, then it will consider exorcism.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Jerry on September 30, 2013, 04:48:44 AM
Modern day psychology has long been denounced by the Church. It is closely tied to Marxism which is of course atheistic. Freud was Marxist he also had sɛҳuąƖ perversions which manifest in his writings and he had an addition to cocaine.

Bishop Sheen who held a degree in psychology cautioned against Catholics receiving psychological counceling. In most cases it does more harm than good as the vulnerable patient is fed doctrine diametrically opposed to our faith. Just one example is the Freudian-Marxist tenet of "the relativity of truth". To them there is no truth, it is subject to whatever the individual wants it to be.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MaterDominici on September 30, 2013, 05:38:58 AM
Quote from: AlligatorDicax
http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html (http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html).  


That's a pretty thorough "about me" page. More than I needed to know, but she does mention suffering with manic depression.

 :pray: 3 Aves for Tracy.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 30, 2013, 07:12:02 AM
I can't believe she's sharing that much about herself with the whole world.

But here it is!

Quote from: AboutTracy.htm
General Stuff

I was born on January 21, 1963 in Indianapolis, Indiana, and have lived here all my life except for four hellish years I spent just outside Seattle. I never want to live outside of Indiana again.

I'm Italian-Irish and, according to my maternal Grandma, Native American (if so, likely Ojibwa. I have no proof of that at all, though, "just" Grandma's insistence).

I'm an INFJ, curious, emotionally intense but generally laid-back with regard to worrying, passionate, sickly, myopic, neurotic, self-conscious, shy but often able to hide it, good-willed, Franciscanesque in spirituality, awed, inspired by beauty, and prone to sadness -- but just as prone to silly goofery. I can be a total froot loop.

I am very sleep-disordered, tending to be up at night but sometimes cycling around the clock in a haphazard fashion.

I'm generally introverted with bursts of extraversion that can make me come off as the class clown, and after which I have to be alone to "re-charge."

My life has had a few interesting twists and turns that make describing it all rather difficult. Lots of long stories...

I can be friends with pretty much anybody -- from firemen to doctors to bikers to professor to everyone in between. I can pal up with people of all races, creeds, colors, ages, gender identities and sɛҳuąƖ persuasions -- none of that matters to me friendship-wise, though I generally tend to befriend and relate to men more often than women. I love men! I love masculine protectiveness and how physically strong men are. I even love how men smell.

At any rate, when it comes to friends, I don't have to agree with someone about everything in order to pal up. What matter to me are integrity, good will, "chemistry," and a sense of humor. I like it, too, when someone can teach me things.

I have three years of college behind me but didn't graduate. I worked in my family's bakery for 20 years and then, after it closed, spent 10 years as an almost literal hermit. It was during this "hermit phase" that I wrote the bulk of the FishEaters website. I so rarely left the house that when I finally did venture forth, I didn't recognize the new currency! It's kind of funny thinking back.  I went from being a "hermit" here in Indiana to moving to a place outside of Seattle for a few years (long story). I'm now back in the house I'd left and where I've now lived for almost 30 years (minus those 4 Washington years).


Politics

Believe it or not, no joke, I'm a paleoconservative constitutional monarchist -- for the little guy and the smallest, least divisive, most sane form of government possible. I've thought a lot about such things... I'd be glad to explain my thoughts to you so you'll know I'm not a (complete) nut..

As things are, though, given our political system and how most people freak out at the very idea of monarchy, I guess I can be described as "libertarian-ish" (though I'm not a Party member and definitely am not an Objectivist). I really admire Ron Paul and would vote for him in a heartbeat.


Intellectual Interests

I'm into learning about: History; social and cultural phenomena; human nature; psychology; sex; relations between the sexes and between parents and children; men's rights; the importance of patriarchy; personality theories and classification; analyzing dreams; art and architecture; movie-making; medieval astrology; symbolism; the preternatural world; human evil, puzzles and riddles; and a slew of other things.
 

Things I Do For Fun

I'm into games and puzzles and such; having my few friends over to hang out; studying; reading; writing; making music; baking; making memory books; surfing the net; watching movies; watching animals; listening to old time radio; and going to the library when I can.

I love trying to do little "crafty" things, but can't say I'm talented at it.

One of my very favorite things to do is to go through 19th c. newspapers, medical journals, women's magazines, and other old publications. Tripped-out and fascinating!


Things I Love

Impersonators and impressionists; books; natural history, history, medical, and science museums -- especially the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago; watching animals eat (I love having birdfeeders!); beautiful old buildings; bells; cemeteries; symbolic depictions of the cosmos; old clocks; automatons; marionettes; music boxes; iridescence; brooches; the stars; the sea; bonfires; fireplaces (wish I had one); the Zodiac; kaleidoscopes; telescopes; microscopes; stereograms (I see them inverted; it's weird!); 3D effects; optical illusions; beautiful polished stones; Christmas cards; willow trees; certain animals (especially wolves, elephants, octopi, whales, porpoises and dolphins, birds, cats, dogs, fancy rats, hens, owls, frogs, praying mantises, fish); ballet (I know nothing about it, though) and watching really good dancers; flowers and flowering houseplants; Niagara Falls; those giant trees in California; snow; Sailors' Valentines; Autumn and Winter; artful memento mori; Christmas and Christmas cards; Hallowe'en; Easter; St. Valentine's Day and valentines; adults who still have a sense of wonder and awe... so many things. Oh yeah, nothing pleases me more than getting massaged by someone who knows what they're doing and where I ache. Sigh!

I love slang and Ebonics (though not in a P.C. way) and sometimes find myself talking that way and in a million other (bad) accents and voices just to be silly.


Idea of a Good Time

Having family or a friend or two or three or more over and, always with food and drink at hand, doing random stuff -- like watching movies, playing games, making things, writing things, baking or cooking stuff, getting buzzed and grabbing scripts and "rehearsing" for plays we'll never be in because we suck, planning on and practicing for going caroling at Christmastime, taking personality tests together, trying to use Tarot cards as a psychological tool (NOT in a divinatory way, which is against Church teaching!), doing I Ching (ditto), analyzing dreams, planning little parties, having a picnic, listening to old time radio shows, having bonfires, making  informal book clubs, watching meteor showers at the right times of the year (one year I saw the Leonids put on a breathtaking show. I couldn't believe what I was seeing!). Anyway, just hanging and coming up with stuff, or sometimes, when the friends are close friends, just hanging and doing nothing together. Or doing different things separately, but in the same place, together.


Favorite Reads

I like: books about my intellectual interests; true crime; the Douay-Reims; Poe; Guy de Maupassant; fairy tales; beautiful art books; biographies of interesting people; strange old books like "Anomalies and Curiosities of Medicine"; M.F.K Fisher; and short stories.

Magazine-wise, I like Culture Wars; Chronicles; New Oxford Review; Taste of Home; and Vogue (I'm so not a fashionista type, but I love looking at the pictures).


Favorite Movies and TV Shows

I'm into old noirs, Hitchcock's stuff; and most anything with Barbara Stanwyck, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Cary Grant, or Cagney (Cagney dancing to "Give My Regards to Broadway" in "Yankee Doodle Dandy" is one of my all-time favorite movie moments. It totally kills me every time!).

I love: "A Streetcar Named Desire"; "All About Eve"; " The Women" (the original); "Mildred Pierce"; "Braveheart"; flicks with crazy-good dialogue -- like "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf?" and "Glengarry Glen Ross" -- and great characters, like "Jackie Brown" with Pam Grier, "Ramblin' Rose" with Laura Dern, or "Freeway" with Reese Witherspoon.

One of the greatest movies ever is, in this Catholic's opinion, "The Passion of the Christ" -- but it's more a meditation than a "flick."

I totally love " The Outlaw Josey Wales", "Tombstone" and a very small handful of other Westerns, but that's not my favorite genre by any means.

I  love the Godfather movies, gritty, 70s-era, set-in-NYC movies, horror (not slasher) flicks (I love 1958's "The Fly"!); schlocky, so-bad-they're-good movies and 70's-era made for TV horror stuff.

I usually prefer drama over comedy, and love good docuмentaries ("Grey Gardens").

I really like Robert Duvall, Jimmy Stewart, Johnny Depp, Vincent Price, Mel Gibson, Irene Dunne, Claude Rains, Clint Eastwood, Fred Astaire, and Laura Dern.

Television-wise, I'm pretty old school and adore Columbo, old American sit-coms (Beverly Hillbillies, Andy Griffith, etc.), Fawlty Towers and other old British stuff. I also, though, like some of the true crime stuff on certain channels now, and docuмentary type shows. Some reality TV can be fun sometimes -- at least those shows where wives get traded,  nannies deal with out-of-control kids, and Not-So-Sweet Sixteens spend trillions on parties. That last's a train-wreck I gotta watch if I see it's on. Sometimes it's good to just vege on "The Little Rascals" or "The Three Stooges." Sometimes I like to watch old movies or old TV just to feel a nostalgic sense of normalcy.


Favorite Music

Beethoven is The One classically (OK, "Romantically"), and I also dig Chopin, Bach, and Tchaikowsky.

I love 40s swing and the kind of jazz that was in "The Man with the Golden Arm" (I know nothing about jazz; I just know what I like when I hear it).

I love Caruso and great crooners like Bennett, Ella, Piaf, Billie Holiday, Judy Garland, and Nat King Cole.

I love doo-wop, the young Elvis, Zeppelin; the Stones; the Beatles; the Doors; Jimi; T-Rex; old Aerosmith; Uncle Ted; Neil Young; Nirvana; Ozzy; Black Sabbath; Cream; BLS; Pantera; Bjork, and tons of others.

I dig old country, like Hank, Sr., Johnny Cash, and Loretta, and I love music I grew up with for sentimental reasons. I also like some rap/hip-hop, a few catchy pop tunes that come about now and then, and off-the-wall stuff like Gregorian Chant and Native American flute and drums.


Favorite Foods and Drinks

Greek; Italian; Thai; Indian; seafood; cheeses; bread; macaroni and cheese; bacon; Mom food (R.I.P.); teriyaki; fair food; popcorn; pineapple; cherries; peaches; watermelon; almondy or lemony stuff; Amaretto; coffee; tea (mint, Earl Grey, Almond, and Chai are my favorites).

I've got a MAJOR sweet tooth and looove: ice cream; pecan pie; sugar cream pie; lemon, and coconut pies; spicy cakes; cookies; caramel apples.. My favorite things to get for Christmas are Mrs. Prindable gourmet jumbo apples with the milk chocolate, caramel, and pecans or walnuts, or chocolate-dipped Australian glaceed apricots. Oh, my gosh! Yes, sweets are the thing.


Favorite Flowers

Peonies, water lilies, gerbera daisies, white, pink, or green carnations, African violets, ranunculus, roses, lilacs, wisteria... I love 'em all, but these stand out.


Main Vices

Here's the big, politically incorrect deal-killer: I smoke. A lot. And am not all apologetic about it. I don't believe the "second-hand smoke" hype at all (though, of course, I don't want to won't smoke around people who are allergic and such). I don't freak out at the site of a pregnant woman having a smoke, like Lucy and every other mother did for generations, or of people smoking around (Oh God, no!) children. I find the tobacco hysteria very annoying. It seems, though, that to many non-smokers, tobacco smoke smells awful, something I'm very self-conscious about, knowing my clothes and person are suffused with it.

As long as it's not mean-spirited and I have a sense of the motivations of the joker, I don't mind humor that some might consider "racist" or "sexist" and think that people are way too uptight lately.

I also tend to cuss. I don't mean to offend, and try to behave around people I think it'd bother.


Quirks

I'm a hair-twirler from way back.

I have to have water, coffee, and cigarettes with me at all times.

I'm Italian-American and can get touchy-feely with people, often too quickly.

I prefer to sit cross-legged or with legs up somehow, even when sitting on chairs.

I'm a total nester and feel a little awry outside of my home, so I much, much, MUCH prefer that friends come to my house rather than me going to theirs. I'm not a big "goer-outer".

I'm a "behind the scenes" type, not digging at all the idea of being famous. Being respected and loved would be nice, but "famous"? Ah, hell no!

I hate, hate, HATE to have my picture taken. It's not that I'm hideous (I'm not, actually, by non-Photosthopped standards LOL), but I am on film and despise cameras aimed in my general direction.

I loathe fluorescent lighting (that sort of atmosphere does no favor to Italians at all) and non-smoking environments.


Challenges

The biggest one for me is manic depression, with those really fun and entertaining "mixed episodes." I can get sorta nuts. Yay! You've been warned!  I usually hole-up and disappear when I'm crazy and try not to afflict my friends. We mixed-state people are the folks most likely to kill ourselves. Isn't that nice? Scares the heck outta me! And I'm someone who knows very well what the Church teaches about ѕυιcιdє! Gulp!

Physically, I have a messed up heart (left ventricular hypertrophic cardiomyopathy) that makes exertion difficult and can make me dizzy, want to faint, and out of breath sometimes. I've also got myofascial pain syndrome (as one doctor puts it; another calls it fibromyalgia. Who knows? Whatever it is, it hurts, sometimes like Hell, and I need a masseur.).

Aside from the above, money is my main challenge. Keeping the website going is always a worry. My kitchen is gutted down to the wall studs. I don't even have flooring in there -- just unfinished wood. No stove even! I miss having a kitchen so much. I miss baking! Sigh! It won't take much, objectively, to fix if all up and make it normal (I live in a TINY little house -- 700 square feet LOL); I just need a gig. I need to find work or win the lottery so I can dig myself out of the hole I'm in, keep this website going, get that kitchen set up, not worry about eating, go to a dentist, keep going to my doctors about my heart stuff, and make sure I have Social Security when the time comes. Ohhh, and there's a guitar I SO covet I can't stand it. I know that's a luxury, but -- sigh! My nephew has one and it's a thing of beauty! I don't have a car either. Poor me!


Symbols That are Important to Me

The willow tree, the sea, the wolf, elephant, the sand dollar, the Moon, Saturn, the North Star.


What I Want Out of Life

For my family and friends and I to be OK spiritually, emotionally, financially, and health-wise, and for us all to get to Heaven are the main things. I want to serve Christ's Church by spreading Tradition, and to be helpful.

On a selfish level, I want emotional intimacy -- to find some friends who "get" me and for it all to be real and totally trustworthy. I crave financial security (Saturn's my ruling planet, see :P) I don't need a lot, but I just "need" to know that enough is there so I'll never be homeless -- that is such a terrifying thought to me!.  

I want to make some stuff before I die (music, videos, crafty stuff), and to have some fun along the way (play some games, learn some stuff, teach some stuff, etc.).  That's about it, I reckon.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on September 30, 2013, 08:40:15 AM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: mikemac
Quote from: BTNYC
I am extremely leery of modern psychology and its diagnoses.

I often hear modernist exegetes dismiss the accounts of demonic posession in Church history and in the Gospels... The usual line is "these people were probably mentally ill," i.e. bipolar, schizophrenic, etc.

To that I say: Maybe they really were demonically possessed. And maybe many of those going about today wearing such exculpating diagnoses on their sleeves are possessed as well.


I have often thought the same BTNYC.  It's a shame, cause in reality these poor souls that have been diagnosed with a mental illness could get real help from an exorcist.  Well if modernist bishops hadn't have said that we don't need exorcists anymore.  Father Gabriele Amorth is trying to change that direction.  Personally I think the Freudian industry does more harm than good.  I have read that all of the mass shootings like Columbine, Colorado and the like have been done by people that were being treated for mental illness with psychotropic or anti-depressant medication prescribed by psychiatrists.


I always thought that even the Church recognizes certain mental issues.  It's been years since I read it, but I thought Father Amorth stated in a book about exorcisms that the Church first determines whether there is a psychological/mental reason for whatever the person is experiencing.  When the Church determines it is not, then it will consider exorcism.


Yes, I think there is a lot of both. When the bible says a devil was cast out, I believe a devil was cast out. But the brain is just as much a part of the body and prone to illness as anything else, so I don't think all mental illness can be classified as possession. Even if the brain itself is not ill, it is influenced by all other systems and can manifest symptoms of illness until the other system is healed. Low blood sugar is a classic. Hormone imbalances also very commonly affect mental health. Some mineral deficiencies affect the brain pretty badly. It's a really mixed bag. It would take ruling out physical causes and a holy priest/psychiatrist to discern the difference. Also I think people can be possessed but seem perfectly rational. They don't display mental illness and think very clearly, just towards evil designs instead of good ones. So possession doesn't equal mental illness at all imo.

Anyway it no longer matters if you speak to a priest. She is so convinced they would agree with her that if you report that they didn't, it's either because you didn't tell the story objectively, or you misunderstood their answer, or you're a lying liar who lies. The world is full of lying liars who lie, unless you're a heretic, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ-porn-addicted transgender. Then you absolutely 100% must be taken at your word because you're the soul of objectivity and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a hypocritical jerk.

 :facepalm: I tried to chalk it up to misdirected good will as long as I could. Time to take my own advice.



Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 30, 2013, 08:40:32 AM
Quote from: Jerry
Modern day psychology has long been denounced by the Church. It is closely tied to Marxism which is of course atheistic. Freud was Marxist he also had sɛҳuąƖ perversions which manifest in his writings and he had an addition to cocaine.

Bishop Sheen who held a degree in psychology cautioned against Catholics receiving psychological counceling. In most cases it does more harm than good as the vulnerable patient is fed doctrine diametrically opposed to our faith. Just one example is the Freudian-Marxist tenet of "the relativity of truth". To them there is no truth, it is subject to whatever the individual wants it to be.


But the Church does not deny that certain mental issues exist.  Psychology and psychiatry is the the practice of treating those mental issues, and it is this practice that is at least looked at with disdain for the reasons you mentioned.  Is it denounced outright?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 30, 2013, 09:09:48 AM
Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote from: AlligatorDicax
http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html (http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html).  


That's a pretty thorough "about me" page. More than I needed to know, but she does mention suffering with manic depression.

 :pray: 3 Aves for Tracy.


It's an excellent idea to pray for her, which I will do also.

It's unfortunate that she suffers from depression. She also has an idea that people who disagree strongly with her stance on this issue hate her, which she's mentioned on FE. I, for one, certainly don't hate or even dislike her, even though I feel she's completely wrong about the transgender and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ issue.

 :pray:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on September 30, 2013, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: wallflower


Anyway it no longer matters if you speak to a priest. She is so convinced they would agree with her that if you report that they didn't, it's either because you didn't tell the story objectively, or you misunderstood their answer, or you're a lying liar who lies. The world is full of lying liars who lie, unless you're a heretic, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ-porn-addicted transgender. Then you absolutely 100% must be taken at your word because you're the soul of objectivity and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a hypocritical jerk.

 :facepalm: I tried to chalk it up to misdirected good will as long as I could. Time to take my own advice.



Well said.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 30, 2013, 10:02:15 AM
The Church most certainly has not "denounced" doctors of mental health.

In fact, the Church teaches that in certain situations, it is a job for a "doctor" rather than a priest. Doctors specialize in many things, all of which are parts of the human body. The mind is only one part. It's not the soul, but it's a very real part of our being.

The body can be sick. The soul can be sick. And the mind can be sick.
For each of these departments, men are needed to treat the sickness.

If your soul is sick, see a priest.
If your mind is sick, see a Catholic psychologist.
If your body is sick, see a doctor.
If your car is sick, see a mechanic.

It would be foolish to see a priest for a broken leg, or a mechanic for schizophrenia. Each has his own specialty and area of competence.

The Church condemns atheism and Freud, but it does not condemn psychology or psychologists as such. Why else would it refer to "Catholic psychologists"?


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 30, 2013, 10:03:55 AM
Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote from: AlligatorDicax
http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html (http://www.fisheaters.com/abouttracy.html).  


That's a pretty thorough "about me" page. More than I needed to know, but she does mention suffering with manic depression.

 :pray: 3 Aves for Tracy.


That's one of the more disturbing things I've read recently (or rather skimmed through, its length is interminable).

This is a woman with a clearly darkened intellect and a non-existent Sensus Catholicus. I'm shocked to learn she is 50 (!) years old. She should be settling into grandmotherhood, an age when women are able to more easily concentrate on their spiritual life, as the passions and cares of youth have (or should have) long since diminished. Instead she is going about weilding false authority, causing (or exacerbating) scandal after scandal, and publishing a dating ad-style autobiographical article that would be embarassing coming from a woman in her twenties, let alone one who is half a century old.

Well, we can gather from this pathetic epic paean to infantile self-obsession that she is absolutely in love with the world, and all the meaningless secular distractions concomittant with such love. She seems to see no conflict at all in being a "traditional" Catholic, and listening to the garbage "music " of out-and-out satanists like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath (even Roscoe doesn't go that far)... So why should she see any conflict in being a "traditional" Catholic and promoting transsɛҳuąƖism?

She was obviously formed in the miasma of post sɛҳuąƖ revolution feminist America, and if she's 50 years old, she was there when it was all still "new and exciting." It's so deeply ingrained she likely sees it as integral to her and she is unable to jettison it despite the demands of the Catholic Faith that she do so. So for her, "traditional Catholicism," and "paleoconservative constitutional monarchism" are just two interests of many; conversation fodder for her many "friends" of all moral stripes and walks of life. She can converse with them in the language of secular garbage pop culture that they hold in common, and then impress them by adding "'Believe it or not, I'm a paleoconservative constitutional monarchist and a traditional Catholic!" Worst of all, she no doubt believes that she's evangelizing to these infidels by name dropping the Latin Mass at her indifferentism-celebrating wine and cheese soirees, despite the fact that nothing at all about her thought, speech or behavor sets her apart from them in any way.

She's a living, breathing example of the female version of what I've described in the "Stephen Heiner" thread... a woman totally sodomitical in her thought and behavior. She rejects genuine femininity (domesticity, motherhood, pious silence and deference to men in matters of debate and apologetics) in favor of the mockery of femininty which is sodomitical effeminacy - vapidity, morbid self-absorption, preoccupation with popular culture, inordinate interest in sterile sex, etc). Is it any wonder at all then, that she is so protective of sodomites and reaffirms them in their vice?

I offer here the two Scripture passages that I believe she would do well to spend the rest of her days contemplating:

Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed; then Eve. And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

1 Timothy 2:11-15

No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other.

St Matthew 6:24

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 30, 2013, 10:07:33 AM
Quote from: Matthew
The Church most certainly has not "denounced" doctors of mental health.

In fact, the Church teaches that in certain situations, it is a job for a "doctor" rather than a priest. Doctors specialize in many things, all of which are parts of the human body. The mind is only one part. It's not the soul, but it's a very real part of our being.

The body can be sick. The soul can be sick. And the mind can be sick.
For each of these departments, men are needed to treat the sickness.

If your soul is sick, see a priest.
If your mind is sick, see a Catholic psychologist.
If your body is sick, see a doctor.
If your car is sick, see a mechanic.

It would be foolish to see a priest for a broken leg, or a mechanic for schizophrenia. Each has his own specialty and area of competence.

The Church condemns atheism and Freud, but it does not condemn psychology or psychologists as such. Why else would it refer to "Catholic psychologists"?




How well-developed a science is "Catholic psychology," and how relaibly free from modernist influence?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Jerry on September 30, 2013, 10:10:50 AM
I'm not sure whether it was actually denounced or condemned. For that I would have to review the encyclicals pertaining to psychology. I don't have the time to do that now as I'm tied up homeschooling our daughter.

It has been 3 or 4 years since I looked into this. As I remember Pope Leo XIII was very critical of modern psychology. You could try looking up some of his encyclicals.

I agree with you that this is very tragic. People need help and are unable to receive it.

But I took a quick look at what Bp Sheen wrote. This was taken from Peace of Soul: "Freud deals with contradictions within the psychic process, his method for explaining these contradictions follows a materialistic strategy....For Marx, in an analogous fashion, social peace is disrupted when the proletariat arises....Freud and Marx agree too that all events social and personal are strictly determined. Spiritual freedom is denied by both."  

Bp Sheen went on to mention the 5 arguments of St. Thomas, St. Augustine's Confessions and Boussuets treatise on concupiscence but stated that modern man has difficulty understanding those principles. I think understanding the teaching on suffering is also helpful. Prayer and meditation are I think the best way to counter severe depression. But it is true that some people need to be medicated.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 30, 2013, 10:30:55 AM
Quote from: BTNYC
Quote from: Matthew
The Church most certainly has not "denounced" doctors of mental health.

In fact, the Church teaches that in certain situations, it is a job for a "doctor" rather than a priest. Doctors specialize in many things, all of which are parts of the human body. The mind is only one part. It's not the soul, but it's a very real part of our being.

The body can be sick. The soul can be sick. And the mind can be sick.
For each of these departments, men are needed to treat the sickness.

If your soul is sick, see a priest.
If your mind is sick, see a Catholic psychologist.
If your body is sick, see a doctor.
If your car is sick, see a mechanic.

It would be foolish to see a priest for a broken leg, or a mechanic for schizophrenia. Each has his own specialty and area of competence.

The Church condemns atheism and Freud, but it does not condemn psychology or psychologists as such. Why else would it refer to "Catholic psychologists"?




How well-developed a science is "Catholic psychology," and how relaibly free from modernist influence?


It doesn't matter if few psychologists are Catholic. It doesn't change the fact that the profession of Psychologist is legitimate and sometimes extremely necessary.

I suppose if a person had no other options, a Catholic priest would be the best second choice.

But then again, I would have been the "second choice" if my wife hadn't had her midwife nearby when she went into labor. So that's not saying much!

What I'm trying to say is, most priests are woefully unequipped to deal with subtle disorders of the mind, being as they haven't studied for it. They know a bit about human nature, but that's about it. Catholic priests would be the first to admit their limitations in this matter.

In fact, I think some individuals are in such grave condition that the services of even a garden-variety Freudian psychologist are necessary. Again, criticizing the state of Psychology today is one thing. Saying that such psychologists should never be called upon, even in cases of necessity, is another.

I was certainly never taught, even by my Trad Catholic professors, that atheistic psychologists are as "off-limits" as a prostitute or Tarot Card reader.

Ideally we wouldn't need psychologists or mind-altering medications -- but the reality of the modern world is another matter.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on September 30, 2013, 11:15:20 AM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: BTNYC
Quote from: Matthew
The Church most certainly has not "denounced" doctors of mental health.

In fact, the Church teaches that in certain situations, it is a job for a "doctor" rather than a priest. Doctors specialize in many things, all of which are parts of the human body. The mind is only one part. It's not the soul, but it's a very real part of our being.

The body can be sick. The soul can be sick. And the mind can be sick.
For each of these departments, men are needed to treat the sickness.

If your soul is sick, see a priest.
If your mind is sick, see a Catholic psychologist.
If your body is sick, see a doctor.
If your car is sick, see a mechanic.

It would be foolish to see a priest for a broken leg, or a mechanic for schizophrenia. Each has his own specialty and area of competence.

The Church condemns atheism and Freud, but it does not condemn psychology or psychologists as such. Why else would it refer to "Catholic psychologists"?




How well-developed a science is "Catholic psychology," and how relaibly free from modernist influence?


It doesn't matter if few psychologists are Catholic. It doesn't change the fact that the profession of Psychologist is legitimate and sometimes extremely necessary.

I suppose if a person had no other options, a Catholic priest would be the best second choice.

But then again, I would have been the "second choice" if my wife hadn't had her midwife nearby when she went into labor. So that's not saying much!

What I'm trying to say is, most priests are woefully unequipped to deal with subtle disorders of the mind, being as they haven't studied for it. They know a bit about human nature, but that's about it. Catholic priests would be the first to admit their limitations in this matter.

In fact, I think some individuals are in such grave condition that the services of even a garden-variety Freudian psychologist are necessary. Again, criticizing the state of Psychology today is one thing. Saying that such psychologists should never be called upon, even in cases of necessity, is another.

I was certainly never taught, even by my Trad Catholic professors, that atheistic psychologists are as "off-limits" as a prostitute or Tarot Card reader.

Ideally we wouldn't need psychologists or mind-altering medications -- but the reality of the modern world is another matter.


The brain is merely the physical organ that the rational soul utilizes to operate in a corporeal body. Considering man as a whole, in the scheme of the union of body and rational soul, we must say that the "seat" of the mind is the soul and not the brain (else we would be entirely "mentally" absent after death in the absence of our physical brains).

Psychology is a materialist "science" that denies the existence of the soul and so proceeds from the false first assumption that the brain alone is the seat of the mind. Freudian psychoanalysis in particular is not even a "science" in any meaningful sense, and is basically an occultic-materialistic perversion of the traditional Catholic teachings of the Four Temperaments and the practice of Examination of Conscience.

I'm a bit confused as to why you would claim that priests are so ill-equipped to deal with problems of the mind. It is priests, after all, and not psychologists and psychiatrists (and certainly not secular psychologists and psychiatrists) who are equipped with the proper understanding of the role of the brain as the vessel of the rational soul. If anecdotal evidence counts for anything, my closest friend is an FSSP seminarian in his fifth year, and he has studied psychology in the seminary. From what he's told me, this study of psychology is essentially to verse the priests in the language of this science (which is so ubiquitous in its influence on modern thinking) and to provide a contrast to the traditional teaching of the Four Temperaments and a Thomistic understanding of the mind (this is the only sense which "Catholic psychology" would make any sense to me). They are not taught psychology as an end unto itself, though I expect many NO seminarians are.

Psychotropic medications are - even in their "best" applications - a ham-fisted materialistic solution to what is very, very often an essentially spiritual problem... Those who suffer from "Depression" would benefit from counseling with a good Catholic priest who knows how to advise a Melancholic type, and not from brain-mutilating chemicals like Prozac. Such drugs are valued for their practicality in silencing troubled souls, but we as Catholics should hardly be endorsing violence done to the dignity of persons in the name of "utility" (that's basically our gripe with Capitalism, isn't it)?  

And I would hasten to add that the "modern world" and "reality" are, to my mind, mutually exclusive concepts... Especially in fields where tradition has something to say (like the nature of the mind or economics).
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Elizabeth on September 30, 2013, 11:53:02 AM
Many, many afflictions of the mind are manifestations of the demonic.  A majority of American priests are either steeped in modern psychology, ignorant of spiritual warfare, or afraid to do combat with demons.  







 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Elizabeth on September 30, 2013, 11:58:49 AM
Quote from: Matthew

I was certainly never taught, even by my Trad Catholic professors, that atheistic psychologists are as "off-limits" as a prostitute or Tarot Card reader.




A huge number of them should be considered off-limits for vey serious reasons.  


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 30, 2013, 12:00:03 PM
Quote from: Elizabeth
Many, many afflictions of the mind are manifestations of the demonic.  A majority of American priests are either steeped in modern psychology, ignorant of spiritual warfare, or afraid to do combat with demons.  
 


Yes, anyone possessed today would be locked up in a mental institution.

That having been said, there is a role for non-priest psychologists, at least ideally.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on September 30, 2013, 12:06:43 PM
Quote from: BTNYC
And I would hasten to add that the "modern world" and "reality" are, to my mind, mutually exclusive concepts... Especially in fields where tradition has something to say (like the nature of the mind or economics).


Reality is what I see when I open my front door. That happens to be the modern world.

I won't withdraw into the inner recesses of my own mind in search of a perfect world -- in other words, detach myself from reality. Not even for all the ideals in the world.

I have the same ideals as you, by the way.

I know the history of Freud, his obsession with sex, the grievous, fundamental errors in modern psychology, etc.

But I'm just repeating what I've been told by my pre-Vatican II Catholic books and SSPX seminary professors. If I could be wrong, then you certainly could be.

I've also known some people IRL who needed help from a psychologist. And many priests just weren't equipped for the task.

Your view on the brain is deplorably simplistic. A priest knows nothing about neurology, for example. So if a person is obsessive-compulsive, he'll be that way in heaven too, since his "mind" goes with him? No, that's a disorder of the brain without affecting the soul. He could be in the state of grace -- a saint, even -- and living an ordered life and STILL have any number of mental conditions.

Your view of the brain is similar to Plato's. He believed we were a spirit trapped in a physical body. The truth is that we are body AND soul. While the soul is joined to the body, the body can affect the soul. And after we die, we will continue to exist but we will not be complete until we get our body back after the Resurrection. If the body were only a prison, God wouldn't re-incarcerate His Elect.

You speak about that which you are ignorant of.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Elizabeth on September 30, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
The legal influence of athiestic psychologists/psychiatrists in the court system is often overlooked.  Their word is what the judge listens to, no matter how incompetent or corrupt.  

They possess an enormous legal influence to which they are not morally entitled.  (thus, the horrible number of children killed in foster care)

~sorry this is off-topic of the FE debacle
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Elizabeth on September 30, 2013, 12:13:17 PM
Quote from: Matthew
...So if a person is obsessive-compulsive, he'll be that way in heaven too, since his "mind" goes with him? No, that's a disorder of the brain without affecting the soul. He could be in the state of grace -- a saint, even -- and living an ordered life and STILL have any number of mental conditions...



True.  The wisdom is in being able to make these distinctions. (by NOT saying such brain glitches are demonic, or derived from sin--by treating them as the Cross, etc)
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on October 01, 2013, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: BTNYC
And I would hasten to add that the "modern world" and "reality" are, to my mind, mutually exclusive concepts... Especially in fields where tradition has something to say (like the nature of the mind or economics).


Reality is what I see when I open my front door. That happens to be the modern world.

I won't withdraw into the inner recesses of my own mind in search of a perfect world -- in other words, detach myself from reality. Not even for all the ideals in the world.

I have the same ideals as you, by the way.

I know the history of Freud, his obsession with sex, the grievous, fundamental errors in modern psychology, etc.

But I'm just repeating what I've been told by my pre-Vatican II Catholic books and SSPX seminary professors. If I could be wrong, then you certainly could be.

I've also known some people IRL who needed help from a psychologist. And many priests just weren't equipped for the task.

Your view on the brain is deplorably simplistic. A priest knows nothing about neurology, for example. So if a person is obsessive-compulsive, he'll be that way in heaven too, since his "mind" goes with him? No, that's a disorder of the brain without affecting the soul. He could be in the state of grace -- a saint, even -- and living an ordered life and STILL have any number of mental conditions.

Your view of the brain is similar to Plato's. He believed we were a spirit trapped in a physical body. The truth is that we are body AND soul. While the soul is joined to the body, the body can affect the soul. And after we die, we will continue to exist but we will not be complete until we get our body back after the Resurrection. If the body were only a prison, God wouldn't re-incarcerate His Elect.

You speak about that which you are ignorant of.


I'm not a psychologist nor a theologian. Neither are you. To those who are, we're both "speaking about that which we are ignorant of." That's kind of the raison d'etre of internet fora, if we want to get cynical about it. And as you say, either one of us could be wrong, but you're not doing a terribly good job of convincing me that I'm that one.

For one thing, you initially stressed the importance of seeking a "Catholic psychologist." Then, when I pressed for your definition of a psychology informed by Catholicism, you dismissed your own caveat by stating "It doesn't matter if few psychologists are Catholic. It doesn't change the fact that the profession of Psychologist is legitimate and sometimes extremely necessary." You then go on to acknowledge that Psychology has "grievous fundamental errors." If a particular "science" contains "errors" that are "grievous and fundamental," how exactly does one go about declaring it "legitimate?" Darwinism contains "grievous, fundamental errors." It is for precisely that reason that, while I could find many words to describe Darwinism, "legitimate" would not be one of them.

In yet another inconsistency, you offer a condemnation of Freud as "obsessed with sex" (that's putting it rather mildly, and ignores his Illuminism, atheism, and occultism, but we'll take what we can get), and you then go on to refer to "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder" entirely uncritically, as though its legitimacy as a "disorder of the brain" should just be accepted a priori... despite this "disorder of the brain" having been discovered (invented?) by Freud himself.

Now, disordered behaviors of all kinds are certainly a real phenomenon. I don't question that at all. But disordered behavior is just that - disordered behavior.   And I have a hard time as a Catholic leaping from that premise to the conclusion that disordered behavior is a "disorder of the brain." If I were a materialist, like Freud, who denied the existence of a rational soul, I'd have no choice but to look to the brain as the source and fount of any disordered behavior. But in my (admittedly unprofessional) estimation, "OCD" is pretty clearly a disordered misplacement of man's natural, God-given inclination to ritual. The origin of said disorder is not some "short circuit" in the organ of the brain, but simply the result of a rational, religious creature seeking a means to indulge his innate need for ritual in the absence of true Religion.

In fact, Freud admitted as much, calling compulsive behavior "an individual religiosity." However, being a materialist, he went the extra step and condemned even legitimate religious practices as  "universal obsessional neurosis" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freud_and_religion#Obsessive_Actions_and_Religious_Practices). Bear that in mind the next time you've got rosary beads betwixt your fingers.

Disordered behavior should be "cured" by redirecting it toward its properly ordered end, not through psychotropic drugs. Psychotropic drugs are nothing like a scalpel cutting away cancerous tissue because psychology is not an empirical science. Such drugs are more like a large, blunt hammer that does far more harm than any (incidental) good.

I find your reference to Plato gratuitous, and I might find your attempt to smear me with an implied accusation of gnostic dualism as deplorable as you find my "simplistic view of the brain." But I'll err on the side of charity and assume that you simply overlooked the part where I clearly stated:

Quote from: BTNYC
Considering man as a whole, in the scheme of the union of body and rational soul


And there's the rub - The human soul is rational, and remains so even when separated from the body. The human body (brain and all) does not.

In closing, I want to summarize the thrust of my argument: In a discussion among traditional Catholics, the burden of proof for the "legitimacy" of a "science" that is, of its very nature, modernist, materialist and antitheist, lies squarely on the shoulders of the man arguing in favor of it. I hold the field of Psychology in extreme suspicion. You do not. It is incuмbent upon you to demonstrate why my suspicions are unfounded.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on October 01, 2013, 12:33:37 AM
Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP:

http://uvcr.catholicam.org/mp3s/FatherR_DangersofModernPsychology.mp3

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MaterDominici on October 01, 2013, 12:42:46 AM
Quote from: BTNYC
But in my (admittedly unprofessional) estimation, "OCD" is pretty clearly a disordered misplacement of man's natural, God-given inclination to ritual. The origin of said disorder is not some "short circuit" in the organ of the brain, but simply the result of a rational, religious creature seeking a means to indulge his innate need for ritual in the absence of true Religion.


 :laugh2:

I know of a few too many Trads with obsessive personalities to not find that hypothesis incredibly funny.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: BTNYC on October 01, 2013, 12:50:58 AM
Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote from: BTNYC
But in my (admittedly unprofessional) estimation, "OCD" is pretty clearly a disordered misplacement of man's natural, God-given inclination to ritual. The origin of said disorder is not some "short circuit" in the organ of the brain, but simply the result of a rational, religious creature seeking a means to indulge his innate need for ritual in the absence of true Religion.


 :laugh2:

I know of a few too many Trads with obsessive personalities to not find that hypothesis incredibly funny.


Human nature remains fallen, even for Catholics.

What Freud would call "obsessive compulsion" in the people to whom you refer, Catholic tradition would likely call "scruples," or perhaps "superstition" (depending on the particular nature of the disorder).
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 01, 2013, 04:31:20 AM
Check out this new thread (un-related to the transgender issue)

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461123.0.html

While no text of the sit-down has appeared of yet, La Repubblica's headline of the article reads: "Thus I will change the Church" ["Così cambiarò la Chiesa"], with a subhed quoting Francis that "'To open oneself to modernity is a duty.'


To which Vox responded:

There's a big difference between "modernity" and "modernism"!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernity


That makes me feel soooooo much better.   :facepalm:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 01, 2013, 09:32:27 AM
Hi.  I'd just like to say a few things.  First, thanks to the owner/moderator of this site for allowing discussion of other web sites.  Without these kinds of discussions, it's impossible for rank and file Catholics to know whether a site or forum is dangerous or not.  I know it must be tougher to moderate this type of thread than anything else, but it's important work and thank you.

Secondly, I was ejected from FE a few months ago, I arrived there from CAF which I was ejected from, where I arrived from a yet more liberal board I was ejected from.  I seem to be moving along a virtual axis of traditionalism.  Cool.  

Third, I can only suspect that, now that Pope Francis is in full swing with this program, a *whole lot* of Catholics will be moving along the same virtual axis and ending up, roughly, here.  I wish every one of them could just read the threads about CAF on FE, and then about FE on here, and hurry the process along.

That is all.      

 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 01, 2013, 07:49:37 PM
Well, I was banned finally. I'm probably one of the least confrontational people on that forum. Impy/Clare/Guac posted a follow up on the banned topic thread and made some corrections to Vox's outlandish school project that she was pushing on forum members to push on to their priests. He said that his SSPX priest actually told him NOT to live as a woman because he was born a man. Wallflower confronted him, making perfect sense, saying that he should've told everyone on the forum that vital piece of information months ago instead of sitting back watching the place devour itself. He replied saying that he did tell people this information before.

So, I replied and addressed Vox by saying something like "I don't want to be banned, I'm assuming it is ok to reply to Impy/Clare's comments, as you allowed him, as well as others, to keep commenting on here. If it isn't ok, then please remove my comment. This is the last time I speak on the transgender topic because it is getting out of hand". Then I said to Impy/Clare "If you truly did make a comment in regards to your SSPX priest telling you not to live as a woman then you should not have had any problem saying it again and again every time a person came to the defense of your female persona. Not only did you sit back and watch this all happening but you allowed others to defend your actions. You took advantage of Vox's friendship because she defended your female wishes from the very beginning. You possibly damaged Vox's credibility as a traditional forum owner. And now you tell the truth?"

And then I was banned. I guess I should be somewhat happy? Act like a Catholic on a trad forum and be banned.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on October 01, 2013, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: Devekut
And then I was banned. I guess I should be somewhat happy? Act like a Catholic on a trad forum and be banned.


Wear it as a badge of honor.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 01, 2013, 09:55:16 PM
Quote from: icterus
Hi.  I'd just like to say a few things.  First, thanks to the owner/moderator of this site for allowing discussion of other web sites.    


Here here.  

There is definitely an online Traditional Catholic community spread out over different websites.  There is nothing wrong with being psychoanalytic--taking a look at ourselves and others to see where we are going, whether we are simple forum pariticipants, blog commenters, or forum/blog owners.  

I wish other forums allowed for discussions of other sites.  But meh.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Geremia on October 01, 2013, 10:37:14 PM
I'm beginning to really like SuscipeDomine form as a FishEater (http://www.suscipedomine.com/) alternative.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 02, 2013, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: Devekut

So, I replied and addressed Vox by saying something like "I don't want to be banned, I'm assuming it is ok to reply to Impy/Clare's comments, as you allowed him, as well as others, to keep commenting on here.


She "CAF'ed" here.  

You challenged her moderation because she didn't wrist slap Impy.  How dare you?  She wrist-slapped you.  Liberals don't get wrist -slapped; only Trads.  YWIA.

Classic CAF-ing.  Although there are things that trads can speak about there that they can not speak about on CAF, I'm thinking FE isn't too far behind.

She really should quit.  




Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 02, 2013, 05:08:55 PM
I have been on the Catholic internet a while, and Vox is not the first board owner/administrator I've seen lose it.  I do not know if there is special temptation assigned to people who take on that job or not, perhaps there is.  In any case, there seems to be a progression at work.  

First, the owner/moderator starts to make really bad decisions.

Then, the most reliable and solid people start to dissent.  The strangest and most heretical people come to the owner's aid.  This happens pretty much regardless of the issue at hand.

The owner forms an echo chamber group with the strange people and the devolution accelerates.  

A purge occurs, with the most normal people expelled.
The purged gather somewhere else, and now the old board defines itself in opposition to their detractors in cyberspace.  

The board resumes relative normalcy, but the population, along with the owner, has taken a quantum leap away from orthodoxy.  A few more minor purges occur as the less active board population realizes what has happened.  

The new, more heterodox position of the board is codified in new rules.  This can happen many times, resulting in a board that eventually is very far away from where it began.



Since I'm not an expert on what has gone on at FE, I can only guess that this template is pretty close to what happened.  I've seen it happen several times, it seems to be the way.  

Thoughts?




 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 03, 2013, 01:06:43 AM
Quote from: icterus
I have been on the Catholic internet a while, and Vox is not the first board owner/administrator I've seen lose it.  I do not know if there is special temptation assigned to people who take on that job or not, perhaps there is.  In any case, there seems to be a progression at work.  

First, the owner/moderator starts to make really bad decisions.

Then, the most reliable and solid people start to dissent.  The strangest and most heretical people come to the owner's aid.  This happens pretty much regardless of the issue at hand.

The owner forms an echo chamber group with the strange people and the devolution accelerates.  

A purge occurs, with the most normal people expelled.
The purged gather somewhere else, and now the old board defines itself in opposition to their detractors in cyberspace.  

The board resumes relative normalcy, but the population, along with the owner, has taken a quantum leap away from orthodoxy.  A few more minor purges occur as the less active board population realizes what has happened.  

The new, more heterodox position of the board is codified in new rules.  This can happen many times, resulting in a board that eventually is very far away from where it began.



Since I'm not an expert on what has gone on at FE, I can only guess that this template is pretty close to what happened.  I've seen it happen several times, it seems to be the way.  

Thoughts?
 


Amazing.  Simply amazing.    Well stated.  

You know, Mith and I used to post on Fisheaters a lot a few years ago.  We've since moved here.  I've been here over two years, I think.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: GottmitunsAlex on October 03, 2013, 01:31:50 AM
Quote from: icterus
I have been on the Catholic internet a while, and Vox is not the first board owner/administrator I've seen lose it.  I do not know if there is special temptation assigned to people who take on that job or not, perhaps there is.  In any case, there seems to be a progression at work.  

First, the owner/moderator starts to make really bad decisions.

Then, the most reliable and solid people start to dissent.  The strangest and most heretical people come to the owner's aid.  This happens pretty much regardless of the issue at hand.

The owner forms an echo chamber group with the strange people and the devolution accelerates.  

A purge occurs, with the most normal people expelled.
The purged gather somewhere else, and now the old board defines itself in opposition to their detractors in cyberspace.  

The board resumes relative normalcy, but the population, along with the owner, has taken a quantum leap away from orthodoxy.  A few more minor purges occur as the less active board population realizes what has happened.  

The new, more heterodox position of the board is codified in new rules.  This can happen many times, resulting in a board that eventually is very far away from where it began.



Since I'm not an expert on what has gone on at FE, I can only guess that this template is pretty close to what happened.  I've seen it happen several times, it seems to be the way.  

Thoughts?



 

I agree.  There is a forum that fits perfectly in what you just described.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 03, 2013, 04:29:49 AM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Devekut

So, I replied and addressed Vox by saying something like "I don't want to be banned, I'm assuming it is ok to reply to Impy/Clare's comments, as you allowed him, as well as others, to keep commenting on here.


She "CAF'ed" here.  

You challenged her moderation because she didn't wrist slap Impy.  How dare you?  She wrist-slapped you.  Liberals don't get wrist -slapped; only Trads.  YWIA.

Classic CAF-ing.  Although there are things that trads can speak about there that they can not speak about on CAF, I'm thinking FE isn't too far behind.

She really should quit.  






And I see she deleted your comment after all.  Of course.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 03, 2013, 09:25:16 AM
Quote
I agree.  There is a forum that fits perfectly in what you just described.


I first saw it on a small forum run by a name-brand 'Catholic apologist'; you know, one of those guys who wears a hat that makes him look like an archaeologist and charges three grand to come speak at your parish, throwing in a little profanity to make it seem 'serious'.  I counted three separate 'purges' while I posted there, with each one it seemed the people I liked reading the most were the ones banished.  The sycophantic weirdos always remained.  At one point, most of the moderators were purged, leaving such a dearth of knowledgeable Catholics that Protestants were appointed to moderate a 'Catholic' message board.  Being a recent convert from Protestantism, this was too much, and I made my first migration.  Been migrating ever since.  



Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 04, 2013, 04:14:42 AM
So, the reason she banned me was because " You are banned because you mischaracterize what other say. Constantly." She is delusional. Anyone can look at my post history and see that this has never happened from me. Someone on here once said that her sins have darkened her own judgement; this couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps she doesn't like that I told her that FE is going to turn into a smells and bells cafeteria if it continues on the path that it has been set on.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 04, 2013, 04:34:13 AM
Quote from: Devekut
So, the reason she banned me was because " You are banned because you mischaracterize what other say. Constantly." She is delusional. Anyone can look at my post history and see that this has never happened from me. Someone on here once said that her sins have darkened her own judgement; this couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps she doesn't like that I told her that FE is going to turn into a smells and bells cafeteria if it continues on the path that it has been set on.


Geremia and St Pius of Trent are next.

How dare they speak of truth?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 04, 2013, 10:46:33 AM
Quote from: Devekut
So, the reason she banned me was because " You are banned because you mischaracterize what other say. Constantly." She is delusional. Anyone can look at my post history and see that this has never happened from me. Someone on here once said that her sins have darkened her own judgement; this couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps she doesn't like that I told her that FE is going to turn into a smells and bells cafeteria if it continues on the path that it has been set on.


I thought your posts were very astute and decribed the problems in a coherent and logical manner. She is delusional. She wants priests to weigh in anonymously to give their take on a secret docuмent that supposedly supports sex-change surgery. There's noting traditional about that at all. She believes that her summary of the situation regarding transgenders and Church teaching is the accurate summary, but what qualifies her to interpret Church teaching on the subject? Nothing at all.

This may sound like psychobabal, but it's possible that she just has problem with men in general, so that if a man wants to become a woman, she thinks that's a really good thing. I dunno. I could be wrong. She's been married and divorced (annulled?) twice. Sometimes women don't even realize that they have a big problem with men, since it's something that our culture now supports and endorses.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 04, 2013, 01:00:07 PM
Meg said:

Quote
She believes that her summary of the situation regarding transgenders and Church teaching is the accurate summary, but what qualifies her to interpret Church teaching on the subject? Nothing at all.


I feel badly for anyone who finds themselves running a Catholic message board.  It seems to me that it's going to be really, really tough for a lay person to do.  In the case of Vox, I think she should attempt to sell it.  I know it's not worth very much, but it is worth something and she apparently subsists on very little money.  Various free web calculators value her site at $10,000-$30,000.  Even if it's worth only 50% of the lowest estimate, if I were her I'd take the $5,000 and run.    

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 04, 2013, 01:26:55 PM
Someone has been thumbing down the posts here that are critical of FE and/or its owner. I'm not at all offended that my posts are thumbed down, but it would be nice to know why, if that person would be willing to let us know.

Trying to square Vox's views on transgenderism with traditional Church teaching is like trying to square Pope Francis views on Catholicism with traditional Church teaching. It just doesn't work.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2013, 01:45:42 PM
Quote from: icterus
Meg said:

Quote
She believes that her summary of the situation regarding transgenders and Church teaching is the accurate summary, but what qualifies her to interpret Church teaching on the subject? Nothing at all.


I feel badly for anyone who finds themselves running a Catholic message board.  It seems to me that it's going to be really, really tough for a lay person to do.  In the case of Vox, I think she should attempt to sell it.  I know it's not worth very much, but it is worth something and she apparently subsists on very little money.  Various free web calculators value her site at $10,000-$30,000.  Even if it's worth only 50% of the lowest estimate, if I were her I'd take the $5,000 and run.    



It would be in everyone's best interest if it was sold or managed by different people.

It serves a good starting point for many to discover Tradition and the TLM.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 04, 2013, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: icterus
Meg said:

Quote
She believes that her summary of the situation regarding transgenders and Church teaching is the accurate summary, but what qualifies her to interpret Church teaching on the subject? Nothing at all.


I feel badly for anyone who finds themselves running a Catholic message board.  It seems to me that it's going to be really, really tough for a lay person to do.  In the case of Vox, I think she should attempt to sell it.  I know it's not worth very much, but it is worth something and she apparently subsists on very little money.  Various free web calculators value her site at $10,000-$30,000.  Even if it's worth only 50% of the lowest estimate, if I were her I'd take the $5,000 and run.    



I'd say the value drops with each additional post of the tranny.

It's gotten so bad now that the tranny can say whatever he wants in whatever tone he chooses and vox says nothing. He knows he has her in his pocket and now he is baiting those he wants banned.

I suspect he isn't Catholic, but in fact a Catholic hater bent on tearing the forum to pieces.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 04, 2013, 03:07:39 PM
Quote from: Ursus
Quote from: icterus
Meg said:

Quote
She believes that her summary of the situation regarding transgenders and Church teaching is the accurate summary, but what qualifies her to interpret Church teaching on the subject? Nothing at all.


I feel badly for anyone who finds themselves running a Catholic message board.  It seems to me that it's going to be really, really tough for a lay person to do.  In the case of Vox, I think she should attempt to sell it.  I know it's not worth very much, but it is worth something and she apparently subsists on very little money.  Various free web calculators value her site at $10,000-$30,000.  Even if it's worth only 50% of the lowest estimate, if I were her I'd take the $5,000 and run.    



It would be in everyone's best interest if it was sold or managed by different people.

It serves a good starting point for many to discover Tradition and the TLM.



It served as a good starting point. Those days are over, and shall remain so as long as vox runs it.

Pray for her
 :pray:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 04, 2013, 03:24:36 PM
Vox (Tracy) has a personal page on an Indiana website called Smaller Indiana. On one of the personal profile links, she gives out personal info. Some of the things she says about herself is that she loves drag queens, and that she uses tarot cards and the I ching, though not in a divinatory way (I think that using them at all is bad). I can't see how her views can be compatible with traditional Catholicism.

Anyway, it offers a bit of insight into her contradictory stance on transɛҳuąƖism maybe. Here's a link to her page:

http://www.smallerindiana.com/profile/TracyTucciarone?xg_source=activity

Here's the info from the link on her page on the website:

http://www.comeupandsee.me/
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 04, 2013, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: Meg
Someone has been thumbing down the posts here that are critical of FE and/or its owner. I'm not at all offended that my posts are thumbed down, but it would be nice to know why, if that person would be willing to let us know.

Trying to square Vox's views on transgenderism with traditional Church teaching is like trying to square Pope Francis views on Catholicism with traditional Church teaching. It just doesn't work.


I noticed that unfair-downvoting troll business in the Malachi "Wojtyla-lover" Martin thread, people downvoting BTNYC and Knight Vigilant, so I spent a few minutes upvoting their posts to balance it out. Don't want people thinking Malachi Martin is someone they should waste good money on when a few trolls are downvoting BTNYC and TKV.

This thread? I'd imagine everyone thinks it's a "former poster" who left in a "huff" but isn't really gone.

Tarot cards? Transvestites?  :barf:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 04, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: Meg
Someone has been thumbing down the posts here that are critical of FE and/or its owner. I'm not at all offended that my posts are thumbed down, but it would be nice to know why, if that person would be willing to let us know.

Trying to square Vox's views on transgenderism with traditional Church teaching is like trying to square Pope Francis views on Catholicism with traditional Church teaching. It just doesn't work.


Honestly I don't care why they've down thumbed me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 04, 2013, 03:43:21 PM
Tarot cards and transvestites.  Seems par for the course.  At one 'catholic' message board I frequented it came out that the admin believed (literally, actually) in dragons (and that one had flown over her house) and liked to set up private chat rooms on the site server for virtual orgies with her 'friends' on the site.  The internet is a nasty, dirty place.  

I'll also note that, in my experience, people who put as much personal information online at Vox has done tend to have all sorts of personal problems.  Seems to be a thing.  

 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 04, 2013, 04:01:37 PM
At least the personal info she posted explains one thing for me. I couldn't figure out why she insisted that she was right and everyone else who disagreed with her was wrong. But she says on that site that she's been a member of Mensa on and off since she was 13. So I'm assuming that she just thinks she's smarter than the rest of us. I'm not very bright and would certainly never score high on an IQ test. But I can still tell right from wrong anyway, at least on a lot of things. Don't need a high IQ for that.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 04, 2013, 04:13:30 PM
Well, I know for a fact that Jayne still visits Cathinfo. She messaged me saying "I noticed you posted on Cathinfo about Impy/Clare/Guac using your picture" blah blah blah. I think she is the one thumbs downing us. Also, if Christulsa is a member here I'm sure he also thumbs downed some stuff. He came out and said that he demanded that Whitey and I be banned from FE. Well, Vox came out and said "I LIKE YOU, CHRISTULSA! I AM SOOOO GLAD YOU ARE HERE LIKE REALLY REALLY GLAD". That pseudo SSPX follower got what he wanted by my ban. I wonder if Joven, Whitey and MiriamM are next.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 04, 2013, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Devekut
Well, I know for a fact that Jayne still visits Cathinfo. She messaged me saying "I noticed you posted on Cathinfo about Impy/Clare/Guac using your picture" blah blah blah. I think she is the one thumbs downing us. Also, if Christulsa is a member here I'm sure he also thumbs downed some stuff. He came out and said that he demanded that Whitey and I be banned from FE. Well, Vox came out and said "I LIKE YOU, CHRISTULSA! I AM SOOOO GLAD YOU ARE HERE LIKE REALLY REALLY GLAD". That pseudo SSPX follower got what he wanted by my ban. I wonder if Joven, Whitey and MiriamM are next.


I would love to have all of those here along with St Pius of Trent (I know Geremia is already here).  They would make valuable additions.  I think many are hurting and need to work through this and that INCLUDES talking about SV not censoring it.  They don't need people constantly wagging their finger and threatening banning.  The threats to ban are constant.  How about actually allowing a conversation where people can prove SV is wrong.  I think the reality is that many over there who are in denial are afraid to open that door.

 

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 04, 2013, 04:37:27 PM
Woah, I read back to page 10 or so (on this thread). Never knew how "confused" that place had gotten since May (add a rule, subtract a rule, ban, use others' profile pics, and guacamole?). Sounds a lot like V2.

Too bad about the occult stuff though; that's a little scary.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 04, 2013, 05:40:39 PM
I have found the whole thing to be a bit depressing.

I didn't bother replying to Impy but I am 90% sure he specifically avoided saying that his priests had advised living as a woman. He was NOT clear about it and left it as a big question mark. It was one of Vox's biggest arguments, that he had already consulted with his priests, therefore we were just the peanut gallery. Consulted, yes. Permission to get off testosterone, yes. Permission to get on estrogen, possibly, I can't remember. Knowledge he would look feminine, yes. Permission to live as a woman and request being addressed as a woman, no.

I am also 90% sure Vox's other big argument was that he didn't get a sex change, which she admitted the Church never allows, but that he simply got a correction. Her theory was that people can have female brain wiring and "feeling", but male parts, and why should the parts be the highest authority. The Church and science will soon reveal that the brain wiring ought to be the highest authority, therefore, Impy was simply getting his body corrected to fit his brain, like any parent would do for a child born with operable defects. Matthew already quoted part of that argument early in the thread. This was a huge "thing" yet now she denies having denied he had a sex change.

I say I am only 90% sure and not 100% because they are running so many circles, I feel like I am a bit insane.

I wrote that last post carefully to try and end it peacefully because I still thought maybe she was just way too sweet and sympathetic and allowing others to take advantage of her sympathy. I warned her of those people even in positions of influence who might try to take advantage of her. Now I see perhaps I was preaching to the choir. The more I learn the more I realize she is one of the last people who ought to have influence over a large number of Catholics. Maybe she IS one of those people gravitating to positions of power for all the wrong reasons. Some of this goes beyond just "a big ole sinner", like everybody else. Everybody else I know avoids tarot cards like the plague and would never put drag queens in the category of delightful and enchanting. It's all very disheartening. But it explains the mixed up mind for sure.





Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 04, 2013, 05:48:43 PM
Quote from: wallflower

I have found the whole thing to be a bit depressing.

I didn't bother replying to Impy but I am 90% sure he specifically avoided saying that his priests had advised living as a woman. He was NOT clear about it and left it as a big question mark. It was one of Vox's biggest arguments, that he had already consulted with his priests, therefore we were just the peanut gallery. Consulted, yes. Permission to get off testosterone, yes. Permission to get on estrogen, possibly, I can't remember. Knowledge he would look feminine, yes. Permission to live as a woman and request being addressed as a woman, no.

I am also 90% sure Vox's other big argument was that he didn't get a sex change, which she admitted the Church never allows, but that he simply got a correction. Her theory was that people can have female brain wiring and "feeling", but male parts, and why should the parts be the highest authority. The Church and science will soon reveal that the brain wiring ought to be the highest authority, therefore, Impy was simply getting his body corrected to fit his brain, like any parent would do for a child born with operable defects. Matthew already quoted part of that argument early in the thread. This was a huge "thing" yet now she denies having denied he had a sex change.

I say I am only 90% sure and not 100% because they are running so many circles, I feel like I am a bit insane.


Kinda like the VII docuмents.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 04, 2013, 06:44:14 PM
Wallflower, I agreed with your postings on FE. My priest basically said the same stuff you said about rising to *power* with ulterior motives. Apparently he has seen way worse from self proclaimed trads. Trad Heretics is what he refers to Vox and her type as. Oh well...by her banning me she basically (in spirit) banned my priest. He still feels like she is working with the tranny to set up some sort of lawsuit against an unsuspecting priest.

Vox is constantly begging for money and ccomplaining about her living/financial situation,  just as CAF does but she ridicules them for it. She is very two faced. I honestly think FE needs to be boycotted. All the letters sent to Mel Gibson need to be retracted. Perhaps someone should write to him and advise him ignore her cries for funding. I really don't think he would fund a denof trannywolves and their sympathizers
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 04, 2013, 06:57:55 PM

Devekut I had no idea how she got that your priest was on her side by what you wrote!
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 04, 2013, 08:01:57 PM
Wallflower, I know, right?! My priest was like WHAT DOES SHE MEAN I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOUR? haha. I've been receiving PMs lately from an FE member trying to combat my comments that I've made on here. This person agrees that I do mischaracterize peoples' worlds constantly. I've never even ran into any sort of conflict with any member on FE before this tranny thing. I still feel like I handled it properly. This person also asked me to provide an exact time and date when Impy/Clare/Guac declared/implied that he was instructed to live as a female. Also, Vox has defended him by saying "She never once came out with boasting about her transgender confessions. It was never treated as a coming out party!". But does no one remember the title of the thread? "I'm.Coming.Out". Those are the lyrics from the PARTY song by Diana Ross! Sure sounds like boasting to me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 04, 2013, 08:48:28 PM
Well, I'm sure this qualifies as "stalking"....but I happened to be talking to a friend today about the FSSP in Indy, since Vox brought it up, and he contradicted what she said about Holy Rosary parish:

Quote
Forum-Owner's Response:

Yeah, I do when I can, and that parish is an FSSP parish called Holy Rosary Parish  -- the personal Italian parish -- in Indianapolis, where all the traditional sacramental rites are offered beautifully by FSSP priest Father  Magiera, who, by the way is not Italian. Why do you need to know? Why are you "grilling" me? What's your deal here?


Quote
Exactly. Fr. Duvelius was FSSP, Fr. Magiera who replaced him was FSSP until recently and he is still the priest there and is still traditionalist, whatever.

"Someone" (hint: letter-writer) needs to get a LIFE and stop worrying about where I go to Mass, about X's personal life and medical records -- what a BUSYBODY! I mean, she's apparently going around checking things out, trying to "get" me on something. How creepy!



He said no, Fr. Magiera is in LR, Arkansas, and is back with the FSSP, and this is not recent news.  So, I checked:

http://fssp.com/press/locations/diocese-of-little-rock-arkansas/

...and it looks like he's right.  

So, maybe there's some other explanation for why she doesn't seem to know her pastor's name...but I'd guess most people will just assume she doesn't go to Mass.  Who knows.  

Like I said, after knowing a board admin who believed in dragons and ran a virtual brothel, nothing about this shocks me.  I figure more and more weird stuff will come to light, and eventually FE will close down under the weight of it, which I think would be for the best.  Vox deserves anonymity in which to work out her salvation like the rest of us.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Immaculata001 on October 05, 2013, 01:52:27 AM
My thoughts are that we have too many "trads" who are interested in "smells and bells" and external, sinful trappings of the "movement" and are not focused on interior conversion.  We are not living lives of prayer and fully reliant on God. We are worldly, sinful, and arrogant.  We are perverse.

And when you take someone who is not at all focused on interior conversion, rather than external conformity to "a movement" and put them in a "leadership" position of a media outlet that -- at some level -- influences Catholics in faith and morals and offers community, their private spiritual cancer spreads like wildfire.

I am not talking about "Vox." I am talking about the destruction of the Church and modern society at every level so that it becomes virtually impossible to practice Catholicism without living as a secular monk and evening shunning contact with other "Catholics" so as not to become morally corrupt.

Just think about it.

At what other time in history have lay people become self-appointed leaders of organizations affecting thousands of Catholics? When has this ever happened in truly Catholic nations? Lay leadership is a Protestant ethos, and we are being forced to live under it.

Many traditionalists will spend thousands and thousands of years in Purgatory. If one doubts this, one needs spiritual direction and instruction from good priests and traditional teachings (saints, in particular). Many, many of those sins will be the result of interactions on the internet with other traditionalists, including presenting one's self as a moral authority or teacher when one is simply a lay person with no authority. Advancing political and social agendas that encourage hatred and pride among other Catholics is one of those sins. Espousing moral perversion because of a corrupt lay understanding of social teachings is another.

Many traditionalists will also go to Hell.

I may not know much, but the internet is being used by Satan to help people get to hell, even through Catholic outlets.

We must protect ourselves from spiritual corruption, even from each other.


Quote from: icterus
I have been on the Catholic internet a while, and Vox is not the first board owner/administrator I've seen lose it.  I do not know if there is special temptation assigned to people who take on that job or not, perhaps there is.  In any case, there seems to be a progression at work.  

First, the owner/moderator starts to make really bad decisions.

Then, the most reliable and solid people start to dissent.  The strangest and most heretical people come to the owner's aid.  This happens pretty much regardless of the issue at hand.

The owner forms an echo chamber group with the strange people and the devolution accelerates.  

A purge occurs, with the most normal people expelled.
The purged gather somewhere else, and now the old board defines itself in opposition to their detractors in cyberspace.  

The board resumes relative normalcy, but the population, along with the owner, has taken a quantum leap away from orthodoxy.  A few more minor purges occur as the less active board population realizes what has happened.  

The new, more heterodox position of the board is codified in new rules.  This can happen many times, resulting in a board that eventually is very far away from where it began.



Since I'm not an expert on what has gone on at FE, I can only guess that this template is pretty close to what happened.  I've seen it happen several times, it seems to be the way.  

Thoughts?




 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MaterDominici on October 05, 2013, 02:07:39 AM
Yes, many sins come from interacting with other human beings -- even Catholics! -- but, you can't hide from Satan.  :devil2:

Not all Saints were hermits and it's not necessary to isolate oneself to get to Heaven.

Much more powerful is a solid prayer life.

There are some sins which are more common when interacting with others and there are others which find fertile soil in the person who isolates themself.

The proper tools for attaining Heaven are the spiritual ones -- Sacraments, prayer, penance, etc.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2013, 07:36:05 AM
Well, I'm banned there.

Didn't really say or do anything other than agree with a priest for sharing a video pointing out how the pope is changing the church.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 05, 2013, 07:41:19 AM
Quote from: Ursus
Well, I'm banned there.

Didn't really say or do anything other than agree with a priest for sharing a video pointing out how the pope is changing the church.


I'm guessing it was this post:

I consider mockery to be wrong too. Which is why people need to speak up about the pope.

People feel validated in sin by this pope. And people keep saying its some sort of misunderstanding. This is mocking the faithful.

The rules need to be changed so faithful people have a place to discuss these changes in the church. So much has happened in just this year.



Again, how dare you suggest changing the rules and allow folks to openly discuss the issues without censorship!

::awaiting yet another FE down-thumb::  LOL
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2013, 07:58:09 AM
Yep. That's the one. Did the priest get banned too?

Funny how that one member so started all the drama there was so quick to call out the priest and compare him to "crowning of thorns" (mocking Jesus).  :applause:

Of course the unofficial moderator there spoke up in agreement
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 05, 2013, 08:06:59 AM
Quote from: Ursus
Yep. That's the one. Did the priest get banned too?

Funny how that one member so started all the drama there was so quick to call out the priest and compare him to "crowning of thorns" (mocking Jesus).  :applause:

Of course the unofficial moderator there spoke up in agreement


I don't know.  That is Fr Cekada and a very well known sedevacantist.  I always thought it was odd that she allowed him to post, but not the topic of sedevacantism.  I would love to see him post here.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Spork on October 05, 2013, 11:23:29 AM
So FE has not closed yet? I wonder if Mr. Awesome Moneybags whipped out the checkbook again.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 05, 2013, 12:02:12 PM
Quote from: Immaculata001
My thoughts are that we have too many "trads" who are interested in "smells and bells" and external, sinful trappings of the "movement" and are not focused on interior conversion.  We are not living lives of prayer and fully reliant on God. We are worldly, sinful, and arrogant.  We are perverse.

And when you take someone who is not at all focused on interior conversion, rather than external conformity to "a movement" and put them in a "leadership" position of a media outlet that -- at some level -- influences Catholics in faith and morals and offers community, their private spiritual cancer spreads like wildfire.

I am not talking about "Vox." I am talking about the destruction of the Church and modern society at every level so that it becomes virtually impossible to practice Catholicism without living as a secular monk and evening shunning contact with other "Catholics" so as not to become morally corrupt.

Just think about it.

At what other time in history have lay people become self-appointed leaders of organizations affecting thousands of Catholics? When has this ever happened in truly Catholic nations? Lay leadership is a Protestant ethos, and we are being forced to live under it.

Many traditionalists will spend thousands and thousands of years in Purgatory. If one doubts this, one needs spiritual direction and instruction from good priests and traditional teachings (saints, in particular). Many, many of those sins will be the result of interactions on the internet with other traditionalists, including presenting one's self as a moral authority or teacher when one is simply a lay person with no authority. Advancing political and social agendas that encourage hatred and pride among other Catholics is one of those sins. Espousing moral perversion because of a corrupt lay understanding of social teachings is another.

Many traditionalists will also go to Hell.

I may not know much, but the internet is being used by Satan to help people get to hell, even through Catholic outlets.

We must protect ourselves from spiritual corruption, even from each other.


Quote from: icterus
I have been on the Catholic internet a while, and Vox is not the first board owner/administrator I've seen lose it.  I do not know if there is special temptation assigned to people who take on that job or not, perhaps there is.  In any case, there seems to be a progression at work.  

First, the owner/moderator starts to make really bad decisions.

Then, the most reliable and solid people start to dissent.  The strangest and most heretical people come to the owner's aid.  This happens pretty much regardless of the issue at hand.

The owner forms an echo chamber group with the strange people and the devolution accelerates.  

A purge occurs, with the most normal people expelled.
The purged gather somewhere else, and now the old board defines itself in opposition to their detractors in cyberspace.  

The board resumes relative normalcy, but the population, along with the owner, has taken a quantum leap away from orthodoxy.  A few more minor purges occur as the less active board population realizes what has happened.  

The new, more heterodox position of the board is codified in new rules.  This can happen many times, resulting in a board that eventually is very far away from where it began.



Since I'm not an expert on what has gone on at FE, I can only guess that this template is pretty close to what happened.  I've seen it happen several times, it seems to be the way.  

Thoughts?




 


So much good food for thought here. Thank you for posting this.

Regarding the idea of lay leadership, wasn't it Pope St. Pius X who suggested that laypersons should have more responsibility standing up or teaching the Faith? I can't remember his exact words on the subject just now. I wonder if he had specific guidelines for lay leadership. He may have forseen that the hierarchy in the Church would be more influenced by modernism and thought that lay leadership would help combat this. But you're right. Unless there's a mind and heart for interior conversion, lay leadership can be a dangerous thing.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 05, 2013, 12:35:52 PM
Quote
Unless there's a mind and heart for interior conversion, lay leadership can be a dangerous thing.


True, but perhaps a bit poetic?  I'd say, when so much of the laity is heterodox, lay leadership is a dangerous thing.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 05, 2013, 12:39:33 PM
Quote from: icterus
Quote
Unless there's a mind and heart for interior conversion, lay leadership can be a dangerous thing.


True, but perhaps a bit poetic?  I'd say, when so much of the laity is heterodox, lay leadership is a dangerous thing.


Yes, I agree.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 05, 2013, 01:25:18 PM
And St Pius of Trent was banned.

FE=CAF Part Deux
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 02:10:44 PM
Quote from: Devekut
Wallflower, I agreed with your postings on FE. My priest basically said the same stuff you said about rising to *power* with ulterior motives. Apparently he has seen way worse from self proclaimed trads. Trad Heretics is what he refers to Vox and her type as. Oh well...by her banning me she basically (in spirit) banned my priest. He still feels like she is working with the tranny to set up some sort of lawsuit against an unsuspecting priest.

Vox is constantly begging for money and ccomplaining about her living/financial situation,  just as CAF does but she ridicules them for it. She is very two faced. I honestly think FE needs to be boycotted. All the letters sent to Mel Gibson need to be retracted. Perhaps someone should write to him and advise him ignore her cries for funding. I really don't think he would fund a denof trannywolves and their sympathizers


That was taken care of the first time it was mentioned. He has a heads up, trust me. And besides, all he has to do is look at the first page of the forum and see the tranny thread where she is trying to justify her support of the tranny.

Very telling how far off the deep end she has strayed when she states in that thread that she only allows posts of support for herself and anything else will get you banned.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 02:12:58 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
And St Pius of Trent was banned.

FE=CAF Part Deux


Seriously ? Any reason given ?

Proof that she has indeed turned NO to the core. The only trads left there are the ones giving her money.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 05, 2013, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Devekut
Oh well...by her banning me she basically (in spirit) banned my priest. He still feels like she is working with the tranny to set up some sort of lawsuit against an unsuspecting priest.


Could you elaborate on this a bit? I don't want it to turn into an unsubstantiated rumor, but why does your priest believe that she is working to set up a lawsuit against an unsuspecting priest? Is it because she's trying to gather info from trad priests? Or something else? I find it to be quite disturbing.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2013, 02:35:17 PM
The tranny stuff baffles me. First, why was it "accepted" on some sketchy church docuмent that couldn't be found or verified. Second, even if it was up for discussion wouldn't it just be another problem from VII. Third, the person in question was actively, publicly seeking people to fornicate with and posted vile photos.

Half the people in the forum left outright and the other half tried to be "charitable." No one comfortable with an active tranny talking tradition and seeking sɛҳuąƖ partners at the same time all while hiding under the "who are you to judge?" Motto that's gained more traction with Pope F.

^ now all of that has been discussed here and not worth rehashing.

Now after few months after the big fallout the tranny member was quiet is back and active. Why?! Under what sense of reality does this make sense? And seems to be influential!

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on October 05, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: wallflower
I have found the whole thing to be a bit depressing.

I didn't bother replying to Impy but I am 90% sure he specifically avoided saying that his priests had advised living as a woman. He was NOT clear about it and left it as a big question mark. It was one of Vox's biggest arguments, that he had already consulted with his priests, therefore we were just the peanut gallery. Consulted, yes. Permission to get off testosterone, yes. Permission to get on estrogen, possibly, I can't remember. Knowledge he would look feminine, yes. Permission to live as a woman and request being addressed as a woman, no.

I am also 90% sure Vox's other big argument was that he didn't get a sex change, which she admitted the Church never allows, but that he simply got a correction. Her theory was that people can have female brain wiring and "feeling", but male parts, and why should the parts be the highest authority. The Church and science will soon reveal that the brain wiring ought to be the highest authority, therefore, Impy was simply getting his body corrected to fit his brain, like any parent would do for a child born with operable defects. Matthew already quoted part of that argument early in the thread. This was a huge "thing" yet now she denies having denied he had a sex change.

I say I am only 90% sure and not 100% because they are running so many circles, I feel like I am a bit insane.

I wrote that last post carefully to try and end it peacefully because I still thought maybe she was just way too sweet and sympathetic and allowing others to take advantage of her sympathy. I warned her of those people even in positions of influence who might try to take advantage of her. Now I see perhaps I was preaching to the choir. The more I learn the more I realize she is one of the last people who ought to have influence over a large number of Catholics. Maybe she IS one of those people gravitating to positions of power for all the wrong reasons. Some of this goes beyond just "a big ole sinner", like everybody else. Everybody else I know avoids tarot cards like the plague and would never put drag queens in the category of delightful and enchanting. It's all very disheartening. But it explains the mixed up mind for sure.


And right after Impy finally posted the truth about what the priest told him, which included not to live as a woman or request being addressed as a woman, Vox called Impy a she in her very next post.  Vox has lost it.  Just wild.  I wouldn't doubt that she is possibly working along with Impy to set up a priest for a law suit too.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 05, 2013, 02:58:31 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
And St Pius of Trent was banned.

FE=CAF Part Deux


Seriously ? Any reason given ?

Proof that she has indeed turned NO to the core. The only trads left there are the ones giving her money.


He was quoting popes, doctors, theologians that say the Pope can indeed fall into heresy.  She believes he tends to promote SV.  I think it is in this thread:


http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461133.0.html

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 05, 2013, 03:25:58 PM
OOps, sorry it's this one (last few pages):

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461070.130.html

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Geremia on October 05, 2013, 03:49:21 PM
All I saw was "FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Mode...", and I thought Mode… = Modernist!  :shocked:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 04:00:20 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
OOps, sorry it's this one (last few pages):

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461070.130.html



Yea, notice austenbosten in that thread ? That's the one volunteering to be a mod after being member there less than a month. There are a handful of these noobs that imo are plants/friends of impy. They are so quick to pat him on the back and "correct" trads.





Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Geremia
All I saw was "FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Mode...", and I thought Mode… = Modernist!  :shocked:


You banned yet ?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 05, 2013, 04:44:22 PM
Well, I had a feeling that since Impy/Clare/Guac is a heretic lawyer he may attempt to do something sneaky in the future. Out of nowhere Vox posts a homework assignment for FE members that demands the opinions of a two priest minimum and the priests must also provide their personal information (name, parish, years ordained, etc.). Vox was not the least bit satisfied with my posts because I refused to give up his identity. Other FE members followed suit and refused to post their priests' identities. So, she posted yet again that her demands must be met 100% (names names names) or no one will be allowed to discuss and be at risk of a ban.

Before I even mentioned my feelings to my priest he came out on his own and said that they are most likely trying to put a lawsuit together, as her huge instruction list does not appear to be a simple question for a priest (CAN A TRANSGENDER LIVE LIFE PRETENDING TO BE A WOMAN/MALE? And the answer would be NO). He honestly thinks that they will try to force their agenda through the media/courts and into the church if they can get enough ammo (2 priests per FE member providing their opinions/church teachings can add up to quite a large number!) After I posted our view on this I received quite a few PMs that seemed to agree.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matto on October 05, 2013, 04:49:43 PM
I have heard so many scandalous things about Fisheaters that I am surprised people still go there anymore.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 05, 2013, 04:53:43 PM
 

So, the twice-divorced sometimes Catholic who claims to be traditionalist but doesn't know what her supposed pastor's name is, loves drag queens and has tarot cards is teamed up with the transgender-slut-attorney to convince unwitting Catholic minions to informally depose priests nationwide on their adherence to a secret supposedly official Vatican docuмent about sex change surgery?

Seriously.  If Dan Brown pitched that one, his publisher would say "Danny, that one is just too wild.  Try to stay closer to reality, like your last few books."

 :laugh1:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 05, 2013, 05:43:22 PM
Twice divorced? Really? And she is running a trad forum? I guess it truly is a smells and bells cafeteria.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 05:53:35 PM
"Any discussion should keep in mind that some people want FE to shut down, are following our discussions and will actively oppose any ideas we come up with.  For example, posters on CI are writing to Mel Gibson telling him to ignore any requests for funding from us.  Any ideas that are vulnerable to sabotage should be discussed with Vox privately rather than on the forum."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html

Hi Jayne  :dancing:

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 05, 2013, 06:15:22 PM
She begged to be banned from this forum but she sure returns quite frequently.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 11:18:11 PM
Now they are discussing suing CI for discussing Vox's personal biz that she herself broadcasts on the net.

She can't handle being scrutinized, but on HER forum, she allows the exact same thing she is whining about here, on her "where ca gets it wrong" thread SHE started.

Can we say "hypocrisy " ?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 11:29:10 PM
Here is the latest.. post 252 and 257 are vox losing it

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on October 05, 2013, 11:30:15 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Here is the latest.. post 252 and 257 are vox losing it

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html


Do you mind posting it or sending it to me via PM? I was banned long ago. Thanks.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 05, 2013, 11:42:21 PM
Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: St Magnus
Here is the latest.. post 252 and 257 are vox losing it

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html


Do you mind posting it or sending it to me via PM? I was banned long ago. Thanks.


sure


#252
LOL That's almost hilarious, or would be if it weren't so sick and nasty. What could they possibly say that'd make Mel not fund this place (assuming he would in the first place -- a big if) that would be true? That place is a cesspool of sin, ignorance, judgmentalism, calumny, gossip, detraction, lies, real ant-semitism (a word I do not use lightly and have had hurled at me because I defend the Gospels and the Church in History), and even nαzιsm (NOT that everyone who posts there fits that description, of course, but that place, taken as a whole, absolutely has that "spirit" about it).

Most of the people who post there are people who got booted off this forum (hence their nasty bitterness toward me) because I know that people like that do NOT represent traditional Catholicism and dont' want them here misleading people into thinking that that nastiness is what traditional Catholicm is. Their big hang-up? Though ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is a disorder and though acting sɛҳuąƖly on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ desires is a sin, I expect for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs to be treated with charity here, and I accept Vatican directives they, apparently mostly sedevacantists, don't like. And I am NOT going to change my mind about any of that. If folks disagree, they need to talk to their priests.

And, BTW, one of Mr. Gibson's great friends is Jodie Foster, a non-Catholic lesbian. Apparently Mel knows how to love people even if they're not perfect Christians. What a novel idea! (Luke 10:23-37 ) I'm guessing, too, that Mr. Gibson wouldn't describe himself as a perfect Christian and, like a sane trad, would be circuмspect of folks who think of themselves that way. Lots of the people at "that place," though, apparently think they are -- and worse than that , they take it upon themselves to judge others' souls, which means they put themselves in the seat of Christ Himself. That place is a scourge that harms the traditional Catholic "movement" (definition here: traditional Catholicism).


#257
Thanks, Jayne. Seriously. "Those people" (I speak of them as a group, mind you!) have been lying -- and I mean outrageously lying, or at least telling extreme unTruths -- about me for YEARS now, talking about my civil marriage which they know NOTHING about and is none of their business but about which they have all sorts of assumptions, tracking where I go and don't go to Mass, getting bent out of shape because I like Led Zeppelin's music, saying just WEIRD things about me -- like how I sent someone a sword (?),  about my being a devotee of Simone Weil (whom I know nothing about), accusing me and you of being LOVERS (Huh??),  otherwise calling me a lesbian (I am so NOT a lesbian it isn't even funny), calling me a "feminist" or "modernist," saying I don't like men (SO far off-base it's funny! I'm the biggest defender of men I know!), etc.

They're apparently now referring to FishEaters as something like "a lavender mafia" because I expect people to treat ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs with charity, like the Catechism and Christ Himself call for, and are now using the fact that I'm manic-depressive -- and a WOMAN -- to say I shouldn't be running a forum, though they seem to agree that the site itself is fine (I mean, how could I, a mere woman, teach so well at the main website -- but shouldn't be running a discussion forum here?). These people are sick. Really and truly sick.  At the least. And they do give traditional Catholicism a bad reputation -- an undeserved reputation because most trads are NOT nαzιs or (truly) anti-semitic, are NOT gossipy and nasty and wont to engage in the slander and detraction, etc. It's sad that we trads have to fight against that image because of places like that.

Further, because all the things I've mentioned are provable untruths, and because I do make money from advertising and could well show damages, I've been advised that my hiring an attorney and suing them is a serious option. Like I said, this has been going on for YEARS now. People get banned from here for being unwilling or "incapable" of talking about the problems in the human element of the Church without being nasty, being disrespectful toward the Pope, being snarky, sarcastic jerks -- and they run over to there and have at me. For YEARS they've been doing this. I almost think that forum wouldn't exist without me banning mean people from this place. And the banned ones go over there and instead of telling it like it is, say things like "I got banned because FE is now a modernist, lavender mafia den of Modernism, just another CAF where you can't even talk about the problems with what Pope Francis says" or "FE used to be great, but now Vox has sold out. She's admitted to being manic-depressive. She obviously has serious mental problems, which is why she's making such bad decisions" (which means "which is why she banned me" or "why she allows imperfect people --  sinners even! --  to post there"). It's insane.

I typically have dealt with stuff like this by just completely ignoring it. To give them any attention whatsoever is a bad idea, IMO, because it just leads to traffic for them and "lookie-lous" and treats them as more important than they are (and certainly tons more important than they think they are). But they are so outrageous, so unrelenting, and so nasty, that maybe it's time to fight back. They're hurting trads, are messing with the trad "movement," and they are hurting my work -- which brings souls to the Church and/or to Tradition (and I have the letters and PMs to prove it!) -- and I am sick of it. I have not ruled out legal avenues.

But praying for them -- you're right. To assume the best, I just have to think of them as -- well, as stupid, to be frank. The only other option isn't nearly as nice, and I hope that isn't the case. So "Father, forgive them; they know not what they do" is the best way for me to be able to pray for them, as my obvious enemies, with immediate and felt sincerity. If the other option's the case, it'd be much harder, so I have to go with the "stupid" angle (which, again, is assuming the best). Or maybe "stupid" isn't exactly the word, but "fearful," or "marked by anomie," "desperate," "scrupulous,"" rigorist" -- forms of emotional illness -- which they accuse me of -- and which is true; I can be emotionally screwed sometimes! and sometimes it can be quite bad for me! -- but which has little to do with my ability to run a forum and nothing to do with my ability to teach what I know and try to do my part in evangelizing and trying to help get on with the "Restoration"! Their emotional sicknesses apparently doesn't stop THEIR virtual lips from flapping. Dang!
- vox

   


You can probably clear your cookies and view the thread.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on October 06, 2013, 12:13:23 AM
Thanks for that. I was able to clear my cookies at work but not at home for some reason. Anyway, Vox is rather pathetic. She bans good posters as if it's a bodily function and then has the nerve to beg for money. Compared to the stench from Fish Kill, the Fulton Fish Market would smell like a rose garden. (Oh, and if Vox doesn't like what I typed, Jayne, tell her and her attorney that she can sue me. Just remember to thumb me down before you report back to her. Your childishness demands it.)
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 06, 2013, 02:40:17 AM
"they're hurting trads". She is the one that turned the church meeting hall into a smells and bells cafeteria. There were quite a few people on FE that messaged me before I was banned telling me not to delete my account because the forum needs more people to defend the faith respectfully, as I have been doing. These people are also people she considers to be her gang. So, CI and whatever other trad forums are out there aren't the embarrassments to traddom. The true embarrassment is FE. I was so ashamed that I belonged to that forum once Impy gate broke open.

Vox is sick. She truly is a strange woman. Like I said, I've never had any problems with anyone in that forum the entire time I was registered and now all of a sudden I am banned for showing concern for the forum/site. If she wants to continue to TRANSform fisheaters into a depraved coven she might as well join up with those butch *nuns* and get paid. The first prayer our Lord taught us contains the sentence "and lead us not into temptation". She mustve overlooked that part
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 07:16:08 AM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
OOps, sorry it's this one (last few pages):

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461070.130.html



Yea, notice austenbosten in that thread ? That's the one volunteering to be a mod after being member there less than a month. There are a handful of these noobs that imo are plants/friends of impy. They are so quick to pat him on the back and "correct" trads.







Yes, I have.  He fits in nicely.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 07:21:32 AM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Charlemagne
Quote from: St Magnus
Here is the latest.. post 252 and 257 are vox losing it

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html


Do you mind posting it or sending it to me via PM? I was banned long ago. Thanks.


sure


#252
LOL That's almost hilarious, or would be if it weren't so sick and nasty. What could they possibly say that'd make Mel not fund this place (assuming he would in the first place -- a big if) that would be true? That place is a cesspool of sin, ignorance, judgmentalism, calumny, gossip, detraction, lies, real ant-semitism (a word I do not use lightly and have had hurled at me because I defend the Gospels and the Church in History), and even nαzιsm (NOT that everyone who posts there fits that description, of course, but that place, taken as a whole, absolutely has that "spirit" about it).

Most of the people who post there are people who got booted off this forum (hence their nasty bitterness toward me) because I know that people like that do NOT represent traditional Catholicism and dont' want them here misleading people into thinking that that nastiness is what traditional Catholicm is. Their big hang-up? Though ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is a disorder and though acting sɛҳuąƖly on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ desires is a sin, I expect for ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs to be treated with charity here, and I accept Vatican directives they, apparently mostly sedevacantists, don't like. And I am NOT going to change my mind about any of that. If folks disagree, they need to talk to their priests.

And, BTW, one of Mr. Gibson's great friends is Jodie Foster, a non-Catholic lesbian. Apparently Mel knows how to love people even if they're not perfect Christians. What a novel idea! (Luke 10:23-37 ) I'm guessing, too, that Mr. Gibson wouldn't describe himself as a perfect Christian and, like a sane trad, would be circuмspect of folks who think of themselves that way. Lots of the people at "that place," though, apparently think they are -- and worse than that , they take it upon themselves to judge others' souls, which means they put themselves in the seat of Christ Himself. That place is a scourge that harms the traditional Catholic "movement" (definition here: traditional Catholicism).


#257
Thanks, Jayne. Seriously. "Those people" (I speak of them as a group, mind you!) have been lying -- and I mean outrageously lying, or at least telling extreme unTruths -- about me for YEARS now, talking about my civil marriage which they know NOTHING about and is none of their business but about which they have all sorts of assumptions, tracking where I go and don't go to Mass, getting bent out of shape because I like Led Zeppelin's music, saying just WEIRD things about me -- like how I sent someone a sword (?),  about my being a devotee of Simone Weil (whom I know nothing about), accusing me and you of being LOVERS (Huh??),  otherwise calling me a lesbian (I am so NOT a lesbian it isn't even funny), calling me a "feminist" or "modernist," saying I don't like men (SO far off-base it's funny! I'm the biggest defender of men I know!), etc.

They're apparently now referring to FishEaters as something like "a lavender mafia" because I expect people to treat ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs with charity, like the Catechism and Christ Himself call for, and are now using the fact that I'm manic-depressive -- and a WOMAN -- to say I shouldn't be running a forum, though they seem to agree that the site itself is fine (I mean, how could I, a mere woman, teach so well at the main website -- but shouldn't be running a discussion forum here?). These people are sick. Really and truly sick.  At the least. And they do give traditional Catholicism a bad reputation -- an undeserved reputation because most trads are NOT nαzιs or (truly) anti-semitic, are NOT gossipy and nasty and wont to engage in the slander and detraction, etc. It's sad that we trads have to fight against that image because of places like that.

Further, because all the things I've mentioned are provable untruths, and because I do make money from advertising and could well show damages, I've been advised that my hiring an attorney and suing them is a serious option. Like I said, this has been going on for YEARS now. People get banned from here for being unwilling or "incapable" of talking about the problems in the human element of the Church without being nasty, being disrespectful toward the Pope, being snarky, sarcastic jerks -- and they run over to there and have at me. For YEARS they've been doing this. I almost think that forum wouldn't exist without me banning mean people from this place. And the banned ones go over there and instead of telling it like it is, say things like "I got banned because FE is now a modernist, lavender mafia den of Modernism, just another CAF where you can't even talk about the problems with what Pope Francis says" or "FE used to be great, but now Vox has sold out. She's admitted to being manic-depressive. She obviously has serious mental problems, which is why she's making such bad decisions" (which means "which is why she banned me" or "why she allows imperfect people --  sinners even! --  to post there"). It's insane.

I typically have dealt with stuff like this by just completely ignoring it. To give them any attention whatsoever is a bad idea, IMO, because it just leads to traffic for them and "lookie-lous" and treats them as more important than they are (and certainly tons more important than they think they are). But they are so outrageous, so unrelenting, and so nasty, that maybe it's time to fight back. They're hurting trads, are messing with the trad "movement," and they are hurting my work -- which brings souls to the Church and/or to Tradition (and I have the letters and PMs to prove it!) -- and I am sick of it. I have not ruled out legal avenues.

But praying for them -- you're right. To assume the best, I just have to think of them as -- well, as stupid, to be frank. The only other option isn't nearly as nice, and I hope that isn't the case. So "Father, forgive them; they know not what they do" is the best way for me to be able to pray for them, as my obvious enemies, with immediate and felt sincerity. If the other option's the case, it'd be much harder, so I have to go with the "stupid" angle (which, again, is assuming the best). Or maybe "stupid" isn't exactly the word, but "fearful," or "marked by anomie," "desperate," "scrupulous,"" rigorist" -- forms of emotional illness -- which they accuse me of -- and which is true; I can be emotionally screwed sometimes! and sometimes it can be quite bad for me! -- but which has little to do with my ability to run a forum and nothing to do with my ability to teach what I know and try to do my part in evangelizing and trying to help get on with the "Restoration"! Their emotional sicknesses apparently doesn't stop THEIR virtual lips from flapping. Dang!
- vox

   


You can probably clear your cookies and view the thread.



LOL.  And I was banned for "general rudeness".
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 07:38:48 AM
Quote from: St Magnus
"Any discussion should keep in mind that some people want FE to shut down, are following our discussions and will actively oppose any ideas we come up with.  For example, posters on CI are writing to Mel Gibson telling him to ignore any requests for funding from us.  Any ideas that are vulnerable to sabotage should be discussed with Vox privately rather than on the forum."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html

Hi Jayne  :dancing:



I'm wondering why Jayne would want to tell her friend about our thread (and publically).  She must know that no good will come of it, no?  

My mother always used to tell me that true friends refrain from informing you when others speak poorly of you.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 07:45:18 AM
And I would just like to say that I am thankful that I was able to come over here and make my own judgments about those who post here (rather than base it on how CI posters are spoken about over there).
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 06, 2013, 08:04:20 AM
Man, with friends like Jayne who needs enemies? Vox has repeatedly said how emotional, tired and frail she is right now, so what does Jayne do? Tattles and gets Vox into a fretting and ranting state about TWO forums now. Lovely.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 06, 2013, 08:54:47 AM
Quote
I have been on the Catholic internet a while, and Vox is not the first board owner/administrator I've seen lose it.  I do not know if there is special temptation assigned to people who take on that job or not, perhaps there is.  In any case, there seems to be a progression at work.  

First, the owner/moderator starts to make really bad decisions.

Then, the most reliable and solid people start to dissent.  The strangest and most heretical people come to the owner's aid.  This happens pretty much regardless of the issue at hand.

The owner forms an echo chamber group with the strange people and the devolution accelerates.  

A purge occurs, with the most normal people expelled.
The purged gather somewhere else, and now the old board defines itself in opposition to their detractors in cyberspace.  

The board resumes relative normalcy, but the population, along with the owner, has taken a quantum leap away from orthodoxy.  A few more minor purges occur as the less active board population realizes what has happened.  

The new, more heterodox position of the board is codified in new rules.  This can happen many times, resulting in a board that eventually is very far away from where it began.


So, I'd say we've reached stage 4.  Vox and those most supportive of her are now defining Fisheaters in opposition to Cathinfo, although apparently the minor purges are also occurring, so probably a combination of stage 4 and 5.  All that is left is for the new official position regarding transgenderism to be codified in the board rules and I think the cycle has completed.  

 
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Larry on October 06, 2013, 10:08:34 AM
Can I say something(and I'm sure there are going to be lots of thumbs downs for this post)?

Has anyone considered that Jayne is very sincere? I've had tons of disagreements with her, but I think she truly means what she says. I think she truly believes, for instance, that if the Pope ordered Catholics to stop attending Traditional Liturgies, she would have to obey. Do I agree with her? No way! But I remember myself 20 years ago or so, and I probably would have agreed with her, because I was misinformed. So she really believes what she says, and I think is sincere in wanting to follow Our Lord.

As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 06, 2013, 12:04:40 PM
Vox has mentioned in recent posts that FE is about the 'restoration.' But how is it that her campaign to make the world of tradition a safer and more tolerant place for transɛҳuąƖs in any way, shape or form about restoration? Rather it is about the introduction of novelty. Traditionalists rightly oppse error and novelty. How then can trads not oppose novelty in this case?

And it's a poor example of tradition when one appears to not live the life of tradition, but rather only pays lip service to it, introduces novelty, and makes a living from it as well. And then threatens a lawsuit when these problems, and especially the contradictions, are rightly pointed out.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 06, 2013, 12:41:03 PM
Something else I'd like to mention regarding Vox's statement about FE and the Restoration. If Vox or Jayne are going to read this post, please keep in mind that it is not Cath Info that is expressing these concerns. It is just me, an individual, who is doing so.

So what is it that Vox is trying to restore? It doesn't appear to be traditional Catholicism. But it does have similarities to gnosticism. Though gnostic views vary somewhat, something that the various gnostic goups have in common is that they like a beautiful liturgy, but they don't really believe that there's such thing as sin, at least the Catholic concept of sin. The phrase, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is common among them. ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ behavior is also not a problem for gnostics. It is not considered a sin. Also, the use of tarot cards, the I Ching, and listening to Black Sabbath would not be a problem either.

I could easily be wrong in making this correlation. I hope that I am.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Immaculata001 on October 06, 2013, 12:53:06 PM
The first thing that we should have done for Impy was to prey for him en masse. As many of us have been, his soul is in danger. We also need to pray for Vox. She is weary, she is frail, vulnerable, and she suffers from a mental illness. IMO, it would be in her best interest to let go of that forum. She needs to focus on getting legitimate income that doesn't affect her and others this way, and she may want to focus on sins that she admits to publicly but will not admit that they are wrong. She needs a good spiritual director and the help of the BVM to comfort her.

On the other hand, people interested in traditionalism need to protect themselves and  their own souls and they need to know what ideologies are being espoused in different "traditional" outlets. Also, being twice divorced or civilly married is NOT a private matter and has never, ever been acceptable in any Catholic society at any time in previous history. It is not okay. People have the right to know that.

Quote from: Larry
Can I say something(and I'm sure there are going to be lots of thumbs downs for this post)?

Has anyone considered that Jayne is very sincere? I've had tons of disagreements with her, but I think she truly means what she says. I think she truly believes, for instance, that if the Pope ordered Catholics to stop attending Traditional Liturgies, she would have to obey. Do I agree with her? No way! But I remember myself 20 years ago or so, and I probably would have agreed with her, because I was misinformed. So she really believes what she says, and I think is sincere in wanting to follow Our Lord.

As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on October 06, 2013, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: Larry
Can I say something(and I'm sure there are going to be lots of thumbs downs for this post)?

Has anyone considered that Jayne is very sincere? I've had tons of disagreements with her, but I think she truly means what she says. I think she truly believes, for instance, that if the Pope ordered Catholics to stop attending Traditional Liturgies, she would have to obey. Do I agree with her? No way! But I remember myself 20 years ago or so, and I probably would have agreed with her, because I was misinformed. So she really believes what she says, and I think is sincere in wanting to follow Our Lord.

As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.


No one (at least not me, who I CAN speak for) is doubting her sincerity. Her sincerity need not be doubted!

The problem is that sincerity and a dime will get you...a small pile of pinto beans.

Many of the modernists in Rome might be "nice guys" (mockingly pronounced "nithe" by +Williamson), or sincere -- but what does it matter? They are still extremely dangerous to the Faith and souls with the Liberalism and Modernism they espouse and exude.

And that, my friend, is the point. Which you seem to have missed.

And moral relativism is dangerous as well. I could be rusty on my definition of the term, what whatever "ISM" causes one to say "Joe Public getting mad at a car that cut him off in traffic is the same as a flagrant sodomite who joins a sodomite porn site and posts filthy words and pictures."

Whoever thinks they're both "sinners" and so "they're basically in the same boat" needs to have his head examined -- his common sense (as well as his Catholic sense) seems to be broken.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Graham on October 06, 2013, 01:20:02 PM
Whenever Vox gets on her soapbox about being charitable to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, I just remind myself that she says it's OK for them to "cuddle" each other. She's a wolf.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on October 06, 2013, 01:21:31 PM
Again, it comes down to distinguishing between converted/repentant sinners and unrepentant sinners.

Joe Public is a man who is trying to raise a family. He goes to Mass every week, frequents the Sacraments, and studiously avoids mortal sin.

He is NOT in the same boat as an unrepentant sodomite.

For starters, Joe only occasionally falls into venial sin. He would save his soul if he died suddenly.

Second of all, Joe is on the path to salvation. He is going to hit some bumps as he's not perfect (even the saints struggled with small venial sins), but in general he would never willingly commit a mortal sin.

How is that anything like an unrepentant prostitute, thief, atheist, murderer, or abortionist (but I repeat myself)?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 01:28:32 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
"Any discussion should keep in mind that some people want FE to shut down, are following our discussions and will actively oppose any ideas we come up with.  For example, posters on CI are writing to Mel Gibson telling him to ignore any requests for funding from us.  Any ideas that are vulnerable to sabotage should be discussed with Vox privately rather than on the forum."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html

Hi Jayne  :dancing:



I'm wondering why Jayne would want to tell her friend about our thread (and publically).  She must know that no good will come of it, no?  

My mother always used to tell me that true friends refrain from informing you when others speak poorly of you.  


Well, I could be wrong of course, but I'm guessing jayne is most comfortable at FE as far as forums go. She wants it to stay open.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
"Any discussion should keep in mind that some people want FE to shut down, are following our discussions and will actively oppose any ideas we come up with.  For example, posters on CI are writing to Mel Gibson telling him to ignore any requests for funding from us.  Any ideas that are vulnerable to sabotage should be discussed with Vox privately rather than on the forum."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html

Hi Jayne  :dancing:



I'm wondering why Jayne would want to tell her friend about our thread (and publically).  She must know that no good will come of it, no?  

My mother always used to tell me that true friends refrain from informing you when others speak poorly of you.  


Well, I could be wrong of course, but I'm guessing jayne is most comfortable at FE as far as forums go. She wants it to stay open.



Yes, but how is bringing us into the discussion over there helping to do that?  
Unless, I am completely missing your point here.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: Larry


As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.


Larry, please read the first few posts here
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3458857.0.html

This was a blatant and troll-like post contrived to tear the forum apart and he succeeded. This is a person who HATES traditional Catholicism. We don't have to rehash the drama. He does a fine job of it himself.

Pray for him, yes. I have as well. But his intent in starting this drama fest and the manner in which he has continued to taunt and bait trads is very easy to see for what it is.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
"Any discussion should keep in mind that some people want FE to shut down, are following our discussions and will actively oppose any ideas we come up with.  For example, posters on CI are writing to Mel Gibson telling him to ignore any requests for funding from us.  Any ideas that are vulnerable to sabotage should be discussed with Vox privately rather than on the forum."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html

Hi Jayne  :dancing:



I'm wondering why Jayne would want to tell her friend about our thread (and publically).  She must know that no good will come of it, no?  

My mother always used to tell me that true friends refrain from informing you when others speak poorly of you.  


Well, I could be wrong of course, but I'm guessing jayne is most comfortable at FE as far as forums go. She wants it to stay open.



Yes, but how is bringing us into the discussion over there helping to do that?  
Unless, I am completely missing your point here.


She simply saw it mentioned that someone has given Mel a heads up on any requests for money he may receive. So she advised any such ideas be discussed in private so they won't be sabotaged.

I doubt she wanted to get Vox upset.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: Meg
The phrase, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is common among them..



A tidbit :

Vox had a similar motto under her avatar for a long while. Aleister Crowley embraced it as well.
Her ex, Quis, was the go to man on FE if anyone had a question on the occult.

Now why would a trad Catholic inform everyone she uses tarrot cards ? A subtle hint perhaps ?

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 06, 2013, 02:53:33 PM
Interesting, St Magus.  Reminds me of a meme I made a few years back:

(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd385/Mithrandylan/keanufememe.jpg) (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/Mithrandylan/media/keanufememe.jpg.html)
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 06, 2013, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Larry
Can I say something(and I'm sure there are going to be lots of thumbs downs for this post)?

Has anyone considered that Jayne is very sincere? I've had tons of disagreements with her, but I think she truly means what she says. I think she truly believes, for instance, that if the Pope ordered Catholics to stop attending Traditional Liturgies, she would have to obey. Do I agree with her? No way! But I remember myself 20 years ago or so, and I probably would have agreed with her, because I was misinformed. So she really believes what she says, and I think is sincere in wanting to follow Our Lord.

As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.


Larry, I noticed your posts over there were quite good. I didn't know you had an account here too.

I have struggled openly with whether or not to trust Jayne is sincere. This is nothing I haven't said to her but there are several patterns of behavior that I have come not to trust. Cross-posting is one of them. Many times in the past few years that she has been on trad forums, Jayne posts what one says about the other then sits back and tsk-tsks the results. Not once. Not twice. Many times, and with full knowledge that it will lead no where good. A lot of people read both places, it's taken for granted, there's no need for a self-appointed messenger. It's like the third party who drops a bomb between two countries and lets them go at it while she sits innocently reminding everyone that it's against the rules to bash other forums.

This time it was a new line to pray for enemies. Now that she has dropped the facade of trying to get along here she is full on supporting the idea that people here are enemies. Strong word. One that no one here has ever used and very convenient of Jayne, considering Vox is struggling with the idea that people hate her personally when most people simply have a problem with her being in such an influential, leadership position. Way to cement this perception, knowing full well that it would cause even more disordered emotion and that many have stated clearly that it is false.

I've said for a long time that Jayne is either very shrewd or very ... Unintelligent. I don't really believe it's the latter so yes I have a problem trusting Jayne. Every single time there is a problem she is right in the thick of it. The possibility of it being coincidence becomes less probable or reasonable with each passing year.

No one has condemned Impy, only his desire to go through with his sex change and have it acknowledged by the trad community in a coming out party. Again it's not so much him and his issues but trying to pass the ideas off as traditional Catholic that is the problem. As long as he retains his female name and symbol over there, they keep it going themselves.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 02:59:32 PM
christulsa123 egging her on:



Ok I'm brainstorming here.

1. Contact CI owner and ask for the libel/defamation to stop.

2. Keep doing that. Docuмent everything.

3. Write the owner and ask, a couple of times.

4. Have an attorney write them a letter.

5. If the libel/defamation continues, talk to attorneys associated with the SSPX, FSSP, etc.  Consider a class-action lawsuit.

6. Be as peaceable and conciliatory as possible.  If the CI owner is not, that helps build your case.

7. You can always start in small claims court.

Hopefully you can avoid a lawsuit and get the CI owner to stop supporting libel/defamation.  If done rightly, this could help the traditional movement, and help the online aspect of the movement as well.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.260.html

btw, this person claims to be a member of a SSPX chapel  :facepalm:


How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.

I'm not an attorney, but would think an honest attorney wouldn't wasted his time with it.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 06, 2013, 03:09:14 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
christulsa123 egging her on:



Ok I'm brainstorming here.

1. Contact CI owner and ask for the libel/defamation to stop.

2. Keep doing that. Docuмent everything.

3. Write the owner and ask, a couple of times.

4. Have an attorney write them a letter.

5. If the libel/defamation continues, talk to attorneys associated with the SSPX, FSSP, etc.  Consider a class-action lawsuit.

6. Be as peaceable and conciliatory as possible.  If the CI owner is not, that helps build your case.

7. You can always start in small claims court.

Hopefully you can avoid a lawsuit and get the CI owner to stop supporting libel/defamation.  If done rightly, this could help the traditional movement, and help the online aspect of the movement as well.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.260.html

btw, this person claims to be a member of a SSPX chapel  :facepalm:


How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.


I'm not an attorney, but would think an honest attorney wouldn't wasted his time with it.


That's just the thing, Magnus.  A forum owner CANNOT be sued for libel committed by a poster.  It's the same reason that 3M can't be sued if someone uses their paper to write a libelous tract.  A blog is different.  Theoretically, a given poster could be threatened with legal action on account of libel, but as you say, this is viewed by most as a waste of time.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: St Magnus
"Any discussion should keep in mind that some people want FE to shut down, are following our discussions and will actively oppose any ideas we come up with.  For example, posters on CI are writing to Mel Gibson telling him to ignore any requests for funding from us.  Any ideas that are vulnerable to sabotage should be discussed with Vox privately rather than on the forum."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.250.html

Hi Jayne  :dancing:



I'm wondering why Jayne would want to tell her friend about our thread (and publically).  She must know that no good will come of it, no?  

My mother always used to tell me that true friends refrain from informing you when others speak poorly of you.  


Well, I could be wrong of course, but I'm guessing jayne is most comfortable at FE as far as forums go. She wants it to stay open.



Yes, but how is bringing us into the discussion over there helping to do that?  
Unless, I am completely missing your point here.


She simply saw it mentioned that someone has given Mel a heads up on any requests for money he may receive. So she advised any such ideas be discussed in private so they won't be sabotaged.

I doubt she wanted to get Vox upset.


Oh I don't think she wanted to upset her either, but I think Wallflower's reply to Larry makes good points.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MaterDominici on October 06, 2013, 03:14:17 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.


Among other things, she'd have to prove malice on your part, so be nice in your criticisms.  :smile:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote from: St Magnus
How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.


Among other things, she'd have to prove malice on your part, so be nice in your criticisms.  :smile:


Noted.

I did mention a need to pray for her !
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 06, 2013, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: wallflower
Quote from: Larry
Can I say something(and I'm sure there are going to be lots of thumbs downs for this post)?

Has anyone considered that Jayne is very sincere? I've had tons of disagreements with her, but I think she truly means what she says. I think she truly believes, for instance, that if the Pope ordered Catholics to stop attending Traditional Liturgies, she would have to obey. Do I agree with her? No way! But I remember myself 20 years ago or so, and I probably would have agreed with her, because I was misinformed. So she really believes what she says, and I think is sincere in wanting to follow Our Lord.

As for the whole Vox/Impy thing: I disagreed with the way that whole situation was handled,and publicly posted as much. But I don't think that regurgitating the details over and over again is helpful for anyone. Impy is a person created in the image and likeness of God. God loves him. Why don't we pray for him? Does anyone have any clue on how he must have felt when all of that dirt was dug up on him? Pray for him. Don't condemn him. I know I've committed many sins in my life that I would be aghast if they came to light. I'm no better than him. Can any of us claim to be?

And that is all. Please pray for me.


Larry, I noticed your posts over there were quite good. I didn't know you had an account here too.

I have struggled openly with whether or not to trust Jayne is sincere. This is nothing I haven't said to her but there are several patterns of behavior that I have come not to trust. Cross-posting is one of them. Many times in the past few years that she has been on trad forums, Jayne posts what one says about the other then sits back and tsk-tsks the results. Not once. Not twice. Many times, and with full knowledge that it will lead no where good. A lot of people read both places, it's taken for granted, there's no need for a self-appointed messenger. It's like the third party who drops a bomb between two countries and lets them go at it while she sits innocently reminding everyone that it's against the rules to bash other forums.

This time it was a new line to pray for enemies. Now that she has dropped the facade of trying to get along here she is full on supporting the idea that people here are enemies. Strong word. One that no one here has ever used and very convenient of Jayne, considering Vox is struggling with the idea that people hate her personally when most people simply have a problem with her being in such an influential, leadership position. Way to cement this perception, knowing full well that it would cause even more disordered emotion and that many have stated clearly that it is false.

I've said for a long time that Jayne is either very shrewd or very ... Unintelligent. I don't really believe it's the latter so yes I have a problem trusting Jayne. Every single time there is a problem she is right in the thick of it. The possibility of it being coincidence becomes less probable or reasonable with each passing year.

No one has condemned Impy, only his desire to go through with his sex change and have it acknowledged by the trad community in a coming out party. Again it's not so much him and his issues but trying to pass the ideas off as traditional Catholic that is the problem. As long as he retains his female name and symbol over there, they keep it going themselves.



Good points, Wallflower, though all are ultimately irrelevant (whether or not Jayne is sincere or in good will) when she is demonstrably wrong.  Wrongs are to be addressed and corrected, whether they proceed from ignorance OR malice.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 03:21:29 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: St Magnus
christulsa123 egging her on:



Ok I'm brainstorming here.

1. Contact CI owner and ask for the libel/defamation to stop.

2. Keep doing that. Docuмent everything.

3. Write the owner and ask, a couple of times.

4. Have an attorney write them a letter.

5. If the libel/defamation continues, talk to attorneys associated with the SSPX, FSSP, etc.  Consider a class-action lawsuit.

6. Be as peaceable and conciliatory as possible.  If the CI owner is not, that helps build your case.

7. You can always start in small claims court.

Hopefully you can avoid a lawsuit and get the CI owner to stop supporting libel/defamation.  If done rightly, this could help the traditional movement, and help the online aspect of the movement as well.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3460942.260.html

btw, this person claims to be a member of a SSPX chapel  :facepalm:


How can anyone be sued for slander or defamation in this situation anyhow ? We are talking about posts using user id's, not full names.


I'm not an attorney, but would think an honest attorney wouldn't wasted his time with it.


That's just the thing, Magnus.  A forum owner CANNOT be sued for libel committed by a poster.  It's the same reason that 3M can't be sued if someone uses their paper to write a libelous tract.  A blog is different.  Theoretically, a given poster could be threatened with legal action on account of libel, but as you say, this is viewed by most as a waste of time.


Good deal.

I figure it's all a scare tactic anyhow. And like I mentioned, her own little thread on CA is no different. Several posts there use full names. I think she ought to think about that  :laugh1:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 03:32:19 PM
But I tell you, sue your enemies.  (Matthew 5:44)
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 06, 2013, 03:37:44 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
But I tell you, sue your enemies.  (Matthew 5:44)


 :laugh1:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 06, 2013, 04:09:07 PM

Another complication going down that road is the forum owner is a "public" figure as in the forum/moderation/person are all interconnected. Forum owner freely shares private information inviting discussion.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on October 06, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
Here is my take on the matter --

Let's pray that Vox finds a nice, well-paying but time-consuming job (so that she no longer needs to make a living off the forum and its people/donations), and/or that she finds a priest to moderate and run the forum so she can keep the income but the bad influence of FE can be mitigated, etc.

Simply wishing for FE to be "closed down" is basically saying you want Vox to be penniless and on the street. Is that really what you want? I certainly don't. (Unlike certain traditional Catholics who would see no problem with putting a whole family with small children on the street... True story!)

What I want is for God's will to be done in the matter. Nothing more, nothing less. But I can't, in good conscience, say that God wants a laywoman like Vox  -- with all the traits she writes about own self on her About Tracy page -- to run the largest Catholic forum with the label "traditional".

So let's pray that God's providence finds a way to get the current FE (as we know it) "off the air" one way or another, without crushing Vox or rendering her penniless or worse. Vox, after all, represents a real human being who has a soul to save.

She's not a concept, a demon, or a monster. Nor is she among the condemned. She is still valid matter for Charity.

After all, we want only the good of all parties.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 06, 2013, 06:02:15 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: 2Vermont
But I tell you, sue your enemies.  (Matthew 5:44)


 :laugh1:


Aw, we've been down-thumbed.  Apparently someone needs a sense of humor.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 06, 2013, 11:47:20 PM
I find it very telling that Jayne is trying to compare Vox to Mel Gibson by pointing out his friendship with Jodie Foster. Yes, Mr. Gibson is friends with a lesbian but I don't recall a time when he out in a public forum to support her sins. I believe this is a perfect example of "hate the sin, love the sinner".
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: roscoe on October 07, 2013, 12:41:33 AM
I have not followed this  topic but knowing a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ & being friends with one are 2 different things. What do u mean by 'his friendship'? I am not a fan of M Gibson or his father--- who is after C's Rampolla, Del Val & by implication Popes Leo & St Pius.  :roll-laugh1:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 07, 2013, 01:26:44 AM
Quote from: Matthew
Here is my take on the matter --


Simply wishing for FE to be "closed down" is basically saying you want Vox to be penniless and on the street. Is that really what you want? I certainly don't. (Unlike certain traditional Catholics who would see no problem with putting a whole family with small children on the street... True story!)


Huh?  How about wanting FE to shut down because it's an anti-Catholic site full of immoral, sɛҳuąƖ and anti-Catholic scandal that is subverting the traditionalist cause?  I think it's the height of melodrama to think that the shutting down of FE means Vox goes penniless out into the street.

Quote

What I want is for God's will to be done in the matter. Nothing more, nothing less. But I can't, in good conscience, say that God wants a laywoman like Vox  -- with all the traits she writes about own self on her About Tracy page -- to run the largest Catholic forum with the label "traditional".


Then shut the damned thing down!  

Quote

So let's pray that God's providence finds a way to get the current FE (as we know it) "off the air" one way or another, without crushing Vox or rendering her penniless or worse. Vox, after all, represents a real human being who has a soul to save.


A soul that is objectively imperiled by promoting and protecting these scandals.  Shut it down.

Quote

She's not a concept, a demon, or a monster. Nor is she among the condemned. She is still valid matter for Charity.

After all, we want only the good of all parties.


Which is precisely why it should be shut down.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 07, 2013, 02:03:55 AM
Quote from: wallflower

I have struggled openly with whether or not to trust Jayne is sincere. This is nothing I haven't said to her but there are several patterns of behavior that I have come not to trust. Cross-posting is one of them. Many times in the past few years that she has been on trad forums, Jayne posts what one says about the other then sits back and tsk-tsks the results. Not once. Not twice. Many times, and with full knowledge that it will lead no where good. A lot of people read both places, it's taken for granted, there's no need for a self-appointed messenger. It's like the third party who drops a bomb between two countries and lets them go at it while she sits innocently reminding everyone that it's against the rules to bash other forums.

This time it was a new line to pray for enemies. Now that she has dropped the facade of trying to get along here she is full on supporting the idea that people here are enemies. Strong word. One that no one here has ever used and very convenient of Jayne, considering Vox is struggling with the idea that people hate her personally when most people simply have a problem with her being in such an influential, leadership position. Way to cement this perception, knowing full well that it would cause even more disordered emotion and that many have stated clearly that it is false.

I've said for a long time that Jayne is either very shrewd or very ... Unintelligent. I don't really believe it's the latter so yes I have a problem trusting Jayne. Every single time there is a problem she is right in the thick of it. The possibility of it being coincidence becomes less probable or reasonable with each passing year.


I cut the Impy part out. No pun intended.

This post needs to be repeated.  :applause:

Enemies? Hardly. I simply don't care, any more than I would care for a 12yo boy's Pokemon forum: not enemies, just not interested. Not praying for them either, though, because I'm not sure who I'd be asking intercession for.

I just can't back down on an avid shunning of liars and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, which was what happened in April and May to cause an exodus. Love the sinner not the sin? Not really. "Dust off your feet and leave". cuм dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum has been tortured into some "coexist" ecuмenical crap and entirely lost its meaning, which the Sodomites take full advantage of, but it seems pretty clear that St. Augustine meant to live your life "with love of mankind and hatred of sins", not to love "each man" who lives in a state of unrepentant sin.

In fact, we're not to be yoked with sinners, so we certainly can't EMBRACE the sinner in his (or her) sin, as happened on FE. That was disgusting!
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 07, 2013, 02:19:56 AM
Mithrandylan's spot on.
And anyway, THIS WHOLE THREAD started because Vox wanted to shut her forum down. HER OWN WORDS. I'm sorry she was panhandling depressed [excuse] when she said them, that's unfortunate, but shutting down that cesspool of Sodom was HER idea, and about the best idea she's had since "supporting" Sparky. Spanky. ...Impy. Whatever.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MaterDominici on October 07, 2013, 04:56:13 AM
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
Mithrandylan's spot on.
And anyway, THIS WHOLE THREAD started because Vox wanted to shut her forum down. HER OWN WORDS. I'm sorry she was panhandling depressed [excuse] when she said them, that's unfortunate, but shutting down that cesspool of Sodom was HER idea, and about the best idea she's had since "supporting" Sparky. Spanky. ...Impy. Whatever.


You do have a point. If she said herself that she wanted to shut her forum down, there's not much room for complaint when people agree with what she suggested.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: AlligatorDicax on October 07, 2013, 06:55:29 AM
Quote from: Matto (Oct 5, 2013, 5:49 pm)
I have heard so many scandalous things about Fisheaters that I am surprised people still go there anymore.

It seems that many Web pages must be still linking to FE, because FE often has its pages showing up high in the initial results of Web searches.  I suspect that quite a lot of "Catholic" Web sites or blogs list FE in their "traditional Catholic links" pages or columns.  Maybe especially those neocon "Catholic" Web sites or blogs that customarily use the phrase "extraordinary form" favorably & frequently, and maybe even more so if they routinely abbreviate it as "EF".

It's common for people to underestimate the effort that's needed to keep a Web site up to date, or a blog fresh.  If a Web query finds a "Catholic" site based, e.g., on the reference material it contains, many of the site's visitors might fail to notice whether there were any significant lapses elsewhere, e.g., that in October, its Mass-schedule still is titled "Holy Week 2013".  So there hadn't been a blogger or webmaster at the wheel for many months.  But if its "Catholic links" listed FE from before it began its hard turn to  port  the left, it'll stay listed.

Even for a Web site that's up-to-date, or a blog that's fresh, whoever is at the wheel is far more likely to expend effort in adding links to newly discovered sites or blogs, than in visiting sites already on their list, just to verify that their  existing links deserve to remain.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 07, 2013, 08:49:50 AM
Let us remember that, although everyone here seems in agreement that Vox's actions are indefensible, it is not IMO *primarily* her fault.  In any sane universe, a lay person would not be in a position of power like she is without adequate spiritual guidance and a direct commission from and oversight by her bishop.  

I can agree that a person enjoying perfect reason, in her situation, would walk away immediately for their own sake.  However, perfect reason is in awfully short supply since the Fall.  

I can only say "Where is her pastor?  Where is her Bishop?"  If she won't listen to her Bishop, then they're supposed to deal with her in a disciplinary manner.  But no, they're AWOL.  

Instead, lay Catholics are given a vague directive to "go out and share the faith" and do "new evangelization" and "make a mess", and so they do.  They make powerful messes.  

There but for the grace of God go I.  I have been so tempted so many times to start a forum.  However, God protected my by showing me this scenario many times.  I have been liberal, neo conservative, and traddy as I wander along this path, but (by the aforementioned grace) I managed not to put myself into a position of unregulated authority.

In the very fact that someone told Vox "You can do this", she is sinned against.  All of the people wanting power to moderate her forum need to think long and hard about taking that apple.  I'm sure the owner/moderator here can share stories about grave temptations that come with the territory.  

I know I would not be able to handle those temptations.  Vox, obviously, is like me, unable to handle it.  As Matthew noted, she's in a terrible situation, needing the forum but despising the meager sustenance it gives her.  Now it's like Gollum's precious, I suppose.  That is a terrible place to be.  It would be a severe, awful hardship for her to make a big change now.  It would, still IMO, be the right thing to do, for her soul and others, but we know it won't happen.  

...without a huge dollop of grace.  I don't know how I feel about anyone contacting Mel Gibson for any reason, which seems a lot like trying to wake a sleeping rhinoceros by tickling it behind the ear (NOT a good idea) but I do know one communique that should be sent:  From Vox to the superior of a good Catholic convent explaining her situation and asking Mother for advice.  

My sincere hope is that at judgement, Vox and the lot of us will be taken into the arms of Christ and He'll say "You poor, dirty little sheep.  Where was your shepherd?"


 


     
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Larry on October 07, 2013, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
Quote from: wallflower

I have struggled openly with whether or not to trust Jayne is sincere. This is nothing I haven't said to her but there are several patterns of behavior that I have come not to trust. Cross-posting is one of them. Many times in the past few years that she has been on trad forums, Jayne posts what one says about the other then sits back and tsk-tsks the results. Not once. Not twice. Many times, and with full knowledge that it will lead no where good. A lot of people read both places, it's taken for granted, there's no need for a self-appointed messenger. It's like the third party who drops a bomb between two countries and lets them go at it while she sits innocently reminding everyone that it's against the rules to bash other forums.

This time it was a new line to pray for enemies. Now that she has dropped the facade of trying to get along here she is full on supporting the idea that people here are enemies. Strong word. One that no one here has ever used and very convenient of Jayne, considering Vox is struggling with the idea that people hate her personally when most people simply have a problem with her being in such an influential, leadership position. Way to cement this perception, knowing full well that it would cause even more disordered emotion and that many have stated clearly that it is false.

I've said for a long time that Jayne is either very shrewd or very ... Unintelligent. I don't really believe it's the latter so yes I have a problem trusting Jayne. Every single time there is a problem she is right in the thick of it. The possibility of it being coincidence becomes less probable or reasonable with each passing year.


I cut the Impy part out. No pun intended.

This post needs to be repeated.  :applause:

Enemies? Hardly. I simply don't care, any more than I would care for a 12yo boy's Pokemon forum: not enemies, just not interested. Not praying for them either, though, because I'm not sure who I'd be asking intercession for. Most of this manufactured drama is from AN ACCOUNT named "JayneK", who for all I know is some retired V2 paedo prelate in Rome (who I WILL NOT pray for), or a Masonic robot designed to dredge up strife in Catholic communities. I know that particular account doesn't tend to bring glad tidings, peace, humor, or anything positive with it, so I avoid it.

I just can't back down on an avid shunning of liars and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, which was what happened in April and May to cause an exodus. Love the sinner not the sin? Not really. "Dust off your feet and leave". cuм dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum has been tortured into some "coexist" ecuмenical crap and entirely lost its meaning, which the Sodomites take full advantage of, but it seems pretty clear that St. Augustine meant to live your life "with love of mankind and hatred of sins", not to love "each man" who lives in a state of unrepentant sin.

In fact, we're not to be yoked with sinners, so we certainly can't EMBRACE the sinner in his (or her) sin, as happened on FE. That was disgusting!


See, this is the kind of post that I think hurts tradition. I hate to disagree with a lady, and I apologize. But the "Thank you, God, that I am not like other men" stuff is completely against the spirit of Christ, and the Faith. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club of people who are better than anyone else. I also think that imputing motives to others, saying that they are "a retired pedo prelate" or whatever is wrong.  We can pray for everyone. God is the one who hears our prayers, he'll apply the graces to people appropriately, He knows their heart, and their intentions.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 07, 2013, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: Larry
See, this is the kind of post that I think hurts tradition. I hate to disagree with a lady, and I apologize. But the "Thank you, God, that I am not like other men" stuff is completely against the spirit of Christ, and the Faith. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club of people who are better than anyone else. I also think that imputing motives to others, saying that they are "a retired pedo prelate" or whatever is wrong.  We can pray for everyone. God is the one who hears our prayers, he'll apply the graces to people appropriately, He knows their heart, and their intentions.



We can indeed pray for everyone. But if the Church really is a hospital for sinners, shouldn't sin be something that we are willing to admit to within ourselves, and shouldn't we also be willing to point out to others who are unrepentant in their sin, for their own sake, and for the sake of others who will be influenced by their bad example?

Sometimes posts here do go a bit over the top. But that's human nature, and it can't be completely avoided. I think that Vox mischaracterizes this forum in her extreme criticism. This forum expresses true tradition. The motto on FE, however, should be..."Love the sinner and don't worry about sin. Jesus loves you that's all that matters."

It reminds me of the Novus Ordo that I attend. It's amazing to me that the priests there can come up with so many ways to say that all you need is love. Love Jesus and your neighbor and everything will be just fine. But if that's all it takes to save one's soul, then there's really no need for a Church and the sacraments. All we would need then is a Bible and a pulpit, like the Prots.

Having said that, I think that Matthew is right in his recent post. Vox is indeed a real person with a soul to be saved, and we should care about her situation, even though she is wrong. I wouldn't want her out on the street because she can't pay bills, even though that forum of hers is a bad one.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on October 07, 2013, 11:25:59 AM
Quote from: Mithrandylan

Huh?  How about wanting FE to shut down because it's an anti-Catholic site full of immoral, sɛҳuąƖ and anti-Catholic scandal that is subverting the traditionalist cause?  I think it's the height of melodrama to think that the shutting down of FE means Vox goes penniless out into the street.


Mith, I'm sure you and I agree about Fisheaters.

Here is my point: (Not aimed at you personally, but at EVERYONE including myself)

Let's not let bitter zeal consume us. Let's try hard to stick to desiring ONLY justice and God's will, and not a bit more. Let's deny ourselves that "last little kick in the ribs" before we go on our way.

It's a very human temptation, and has tempted many others before us. Let's not let our apparent "enmity" with Vox (which is unavoidable, given our love for the Church and the Faith in general) get so personal that we forget we are Catholic.

That's all that I ask.

So, for example, if there were some way that would remove FE as a source of scandal and sin, but had the one "downside" that Vox wouldn't suffer, I would be for it in a heartbeat. Is it possible? Who knows. I agree that FE is not an asset to Tradition (to indulge in some understatement).

What I'm trying to say is -- let's not nurse any secret desire for revenge, or to see our enemies crushed. Praying that our enemies get crushed is very human and carnal (think: Old Testament) but Our Lord took the New Testament to a higher level than that.

I just know that Trads have a tendency to NOT get along with each other, and that's as scandalous as anything Vox has done. Let's let our charity show EVEN AS WE FIGHT Liberalism, error, and those who promote it.

Archbishop Lefebvre was a courageous, uncompromising hero of the Faith against Liberalism and Modernism. In a normal world, he would be canonized. But he was always charitable and not filled with bitter zeal. Zeal, yes. Bitter, no.

It's a sad truism that when Trads form a firing squad, it's shaped like a circle.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 07, 2013, 11:35:53 AM
Quote
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club of people who are better than anyone else.


Yeah.  Exactly.  And if you carry the hospital analogy a bit farther, dangerous things are not allowed inside a hospital.  A raving gunman, a bomb, an unsecured source of virulent infection...none of these things would be allowed inside until it had been neutralized for the safety of the other patients.  

This is something often lost in the 'all you need is hugs' modern Church.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 07, 2013, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: Larry
See, this is the kind of post that I think hurts tradition. I hate to disagree with a lady, and I apologize. But the "Thank you, God, that I am not like other men" stuff is completely against the spirit of Christ, and the Faith. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club of people who are better than anyone else. I also think that imputing motives to others, saying that they are "a retired pedo prelate" or whatever is wrong.  We can pray for everyone. God is the one who hears our prayers, he'll apply the graces to people appropriately, He knows their heart, and their intentions.


I can't believe you're equating "not being yoked with sinners" to "thank God I'm not like other men."

If someone is living in grave sin, which is pretty much what we're supposedly talking about here, you don't embrace them and say "it's all good." Because it's not. In fact, it's all bad. And you tell them so. To be charitable.

"Imputing motives": When a user account name has been associated with lies and deceit, it is also with charity that I don't associate that user account with a person, but rather with a troll, trolls, or a robot.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 07, 2013, 03:37:54 PM
Quote from: MaterDominici
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
Mithrandylan's spot on.
And anyway, THIS WHOLE THREAD started because Vox wanted to shut her forum down. HER OWN WORDS. I'm sorry she was panhandling depressed [excuse] when she said them, that's unfortunate, but shutting down that cesspool of Sodom was HER idea, and about the best idea she's had since "supporting" Sparky. Spanky. ...Impy. Whatever.


You do have a point. If she said herself that she wanted to shut her forum down, there's not much room for complaint when people agree with what she suggested.


To be fair to her, I may be wrong, but I don't think her main beef with this thread is its topic of FE shutting down.  It appears her main beef is that many comments got personal...whether true or not.

I stayed out of the Impygate because I wasn't there when it happened (and I really have no interest in going back and reading the drama). I've also tried to stay out of the personal jabs.

My biggest issue with her is the way she moderates... the fact that she is now banning good, traditional Catholics left and right despite the fact that they have very important (and VALID) points to make.  OTOH, she rarely if ever bans NO's or liberals. They are too busy wagging their fingers at the other folks and playing self-appointed moderator.  And when she did ban such a poster the one time I saw her do it, she flip-flopped almost immediately.  As far as I'm concerned this type of moderation is reminiscent of CAF and I have no respect for that place nor its moderators.  

I also happen to think that she should allow discussions of SV in a separate forum.  Clearly there are a number of trads who WANT to discuss it and nowhere has it been condemned by the Church.  This is pure censorship.  I get that it's her site, but there are good people who NEED to discuss this with others struggling in this crisis.  It is a DISSERVICE to them to not allow it and then to add insult to injury she threatens to ban them. And then where do they go?  Here, of course.  Because despite some of the more (a-hem) colorful posters (which I much prefer over the liberal, FE posters), Matthew allows this discussion. He is hands-off and although sometimes that makes it a bit more difficult (you actually have to IGNORE posters that piss you off or hurt your feelings, yada, yada), it allows for adults to actually have adult conversations without being reprimanded all of the time.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 08, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
Jayne, I deleted your PM without reading it as we've gone that route before and it simply does no good, which is why I think you're code. Probably basic. You have great history of saying hideous things, repeating it in a different way when called out, denying you said anything, wondering aloud why people are so mean to you, garnering sympathy, and then repeating your original assertion, over and over again. For no discernible reason. Which is why I prefer to think of you as code. We already knew you were downvoting. If you want to "be a real person", stop acting like code and JOIN the conversation since we know you didn't leave anyway.

 :stare:

Larry: this is why Jayne looks like code.

Well okay then! JayneK, feel free. Loqui! Sprechen! Say your peace publically. Why are you starting drama?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 08, 2013, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: icterus
Quote
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a club of people who are better than anyone else.


Yeah.  Exactly.  And if you carry the hospital analogy a bit farther, dangerous things are not allowed inside a hospital.  A raving gunman, a bomb, an unsecured source of virulent infection...none of these things would be allowed inside until it had been neutralized for the safety of the other patients.  

This is something often lost in the 'all you need is hugs' modern Church.  


That's exactly it. The pretense that "sinners" or "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs" get trashed because other Catholics think they are better than them is just that, a pretense. There are many people who go on both boards and ask for advice for some serious issues, from sɛҳuąƖ sins to doubts about the Faith. They don't automatically get trashed or pushed away or anything of the sort, whether the other members can relate personally or not. Most are treated with respect and dignity.

There are only a few who are consistently given a hard time and it usually doesn't have to do with their sins (albeit such attachments can give much insight on why they take the stances they do) but with the ideas they are pushing that are harmful to the hospital. On the "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ/transɛҳuąƖ" side, I can think of only three who get confronted for their posts on a regular basis. And the fascinating thing is there are always lurking Catholics with SSA who ALSO speak up against these posts.

If it were simply a matter of immaturity, ignorance and self-righteous "judgment", then every Catholic who has difficulties with SSA would get trashed immediately. But that's not the case. It's only those whose posts try to rationalize or put spins on it to satisfy their attachment to the sin or even to the identity, if they don't commit the sin. It's not all about sex.

There are a couple of people who repeat that those involved in this controversy only care about sex, are obsessed with sex, and try to discredit in this way. But the irony is they are the ones obsessed with sex. IOW, their view is a very simplistic "homo sex -- bad, homo not having sex -- good" as if there are no other elements to this, such as the attachment to or glorification of the identity or other erroneous ideas. A good example of it is that disclaimer about drag queens, that they are delightful and no guesses are made as to their sɛҳuąƖ activity. No one needs to! Drag is wrong and gravely sinful in itself. Not to recognize that and to think it only comes down to whether or not they are having ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ sex is an erroneous and very dangerous line of thought.

The reason why the ideas behind it are so much more dangerous than the actual actions is because those are the ideas that lead to the actual actions. Like murder and abortion, whose category of gravity it is in, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is not usually something that a person just wakes up and decides to do one day as if it's the most natural thing in the world. There is so much that leads up to it. All of those predispositions have to be recognized and combated, especially if they are being actively spread. That's why if I'd have a lot more sympathy for someone who rejects the sin entirely in his mind but has a weakness of flesh now and then, than for someone who never commits the sin but whose mind is still attached and rationalizing. It's not all about whether the sin is committed although that is obviously concerning too, but in the context of a forum it's more about what their posts are saying and whether that furthers the occasion of or the predisposition to the sin.


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on October 08, 2013, 10:57:07 AM
Did anybody else received this email from Fisheaters?  I never have
signed up nor registered for this forum.


 

 Oct 7 at 7:57 PM  






 Hi, everyone who's registered at the FishEaters discussion forum! This is Tracy Tucciarone, owner of the FishEaters website ("Vox Clamantis" at the discussion forum), and I want to send to you an appeal from Jason Fabaz, the Director of Development and Institutional Advancement at Fisher More College. Before I get the details of his request, I want to tell you 12 things you should know about Fisher More College:

 12 Things You Should Know About Fisher More College:

 1. We are the only accredited 4-year Catholic college that proclaims fidelity to the Traditional Latin Mass as essential to achieving its mission and we have a full-time chaplain from the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (F.S.S.P.) in residence.

 2. We strive to model for one another a genuine Catholic life following the Latin phrase that serves as Our Statement of Principles: Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi (“as we pray, so we believe, so we live”).

3. Our work calendar is the liturgical calendar of the Church. Every day we attend Mass, pray the Rosary, sing the Angelus, chant the Divine Office, study, and dine together as a community.

 4. We are led and staffed by committed traditional Catholics who have experience in business and higher education, including President Michael King, former Chair of the Business School at Benedictine College.

 5. We are located in the heart of Fort Worth, Texas, one of America’s best large metropolitan areas with easy access to jobs, internships, an international airport, and beautiful weather year round.

 6. We recently moved to our new campus, a beautiful edifice in the Gothic revival style built over 100 years ago by the Sisters of St. Mary of Namur as a boarding school, college, convent and provincial house.

 7. We operate Fisher More Academy (grades 4 thru 12) which offers full-service, live, interactive online programs for students at home, in cooperatives, and in hybrid schools.

 8. Enrollment in both Fisher More College and Fisher More Academy has more than doubled from last year as the College welcomes its largest freshman class and enrollment in the Academy exceeds 400 students.

 9. We have outstanding professors in the College and instructors in the Academy, many of whom are published authors and international lecturers who could teach anywhere but have chosen Fisher More because they are deeply committed to our unique mission.

 10. Each year our president and all faculty take the Oath Against Modernism (Pope Saint Pius X, 1910).

 11. We are committed to enrolling and graduating students who have not been reduced to debt dependency, so we choose not to participate in the federal student loan program and not to facilitate private borrowing.

 12. We are the home of Fisher More Chronicles, a center for publicizing activities of the College and Academy, and for promoting Catholic culture through new media, radio, publications, lectures, conferences, etc.


 And now, here's Mr. Fabaz's request!



 JMJ


 I'm sure you all read Vox Clamantis' recent post, she has done so much for all of us, we should all donate to Fisheaters.com...I'm making my donation right now, I hope you all will join me.

 I also want to let you know of another urgent appeal, America's only fully-accredited 4-year Catholic College that views fidelity to the Traditional Latin Mass as essential towards achieving its mission, The College of Saints John Fisher & Thomas More (Fisher More College). We are hosting our 1st ever Rogatio Moneyblast: throughout the next 7 days we need the support and prayers of 10,000 committed Traditional Catholics! Starting today, on this Glorious Feast of Our Lady of Victory, to whom our campus building was dedicated back in 1909, we are holding an urgent fundraising week, we call it our Rogatio Moneyblast.

 Here's the What, When, Where, Why and Who:

 What: We invite you to visit our website every day (http://fishermore.edu) from Oct. 7-13 as we post new videos and pictures featuring our students at the Traditional Latin Mass, praying the Holy Rosary, singing the Angelus, chanting Vespers as a community, taking classes, studying and just hanging out with each other; in short, living out the Catholic Faith as a college community!

 When: October 7th (Feast of Our Lady of Victory) through October 13th (Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima), including a special day on October 11th (Feast of the Maternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary).

 Where: Please make a secure online donation here. Your donations are tax deductible. What if 5000 Traditionalists made a donation, what if 10,000 of us did! That is the kind of support we urgently need to help America's only fully-accredited 4-year Traditional Catholic College alive and growing, educating tomorrow's leaders dedicated to the Traditional Latin Mass and Traditional Catholic Doctrines!

 Why: Help us raise a much-needed $250,000 enabling us to provide scholarships for deserving students and helping us restore our campus building (dedicated to Our Lady of Victory in 1909) back to its original purpose: Traditional Catholic Education and Formation.

 Who should participate: We are a unique college in many ways, one of which is our commitment to graduating students who have not been forced into debt dependency because of their education. We place our confidence in Divine Providence and in the generosity of good people like you to help us make this possible.

 http://fishermore.edu/rogatio/online-donation/

 May our Good God, through the intercession of Sts. John Fisher & Thomas More continue to bless you and your family!

 Best regards,

 Jason

 Jason Fabaz
 Director of Development & Institutional Advancement
 The College of Sts. John Fisher & Thomas More
 (Fisher More College)
 Ph. 817-653-2020
 jason.fabaz@fishermore.edu
 801 W. Shaw St.
 Fort Worth, TX 76110

 AMDG




Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Jaynek on October 08, 2013, 11:03:53 AM
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

Well okay then! JayneK, feel free. Loqui! Sprechen! Say your peace publically. Why are you starting drama?


When I said I had no intention of posting here again, I meant it, but I need to say this:

Whatever you all think of me, I think that you are Catholics and I value your prayers.  I am distressed to see SCG saying that I am not a real person and therefore it is an offense against God to pray for me. There is no point in me explaining my motives for anything because people don't believe me anyhow.  That's fine. Whatever else you want to believe about me, believe that I need your prayers and am grateful for them.

I have sent Matthew the names of priests who can vouch for my existence if he contacts them, although I dislike to bother such a busy man with doing this.  If anyone has an account on Suscipe Domine, a couple of posters there have met me in person.  You can PM me for their names and contact them, if you wish.  If that is what it takes to be recognized as a person who can be prayed for, then I will do it.  I need all the prayers I can get.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 08, 2013, 01:26:06 PM
Fishermore College should be made aware of the public scandal FE has committed. Perhaps Fisheaters will EAT Fishermore if they continue to associate themselves with Sodomite forum. I know very well that I would never allow my child to attend a university that is aligned with such trash.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 08, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
Jayne, I deleted your PM without reading it as we've gone that route before and it simply does no good, which is why I think you're code. Probably basic. You have great history of saying hideous things, repeating it in a different way when called out, denying you said anything, wondering aloud why people are so mean to you, garnering sympathy, and then repeating your original assertion, over and over again. For no discernible reason. Which is why I prefer to think of you as code. We already knew you were downvoting. If you want to "be a real person", stop acting like code and JOIN the conversation since we know you didn't leave anyway.

 :stare:

Larry: this is why Jayne looks like code.

Well okay then! JayneK, feel free. Loqui! Sprechen! Say your peace publically. Why are you starting drama?


Pretty much nailed it. All games with her.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 08, 2013, 03:05:05 PM
I'd not ever heard of Fisher More college. So, in wondering why on earth a supposed trad college would want to have anything to do with FE, I looked at the founders of the college. Or rather, just one founder, so far. Her name is Dr. Judith Shanks, and she taught philosophy at the college for quite awhile. She is now a senior fellow at the college. Unfortunately, it looks like she has a keen interest in existentialist philosophy.

In her college bio, it says that she managed a journal called Aletheia: International journal of philosophy, which is dedicated to the works of a Phenomenologist called Roman Ingarden. She also authored a paper called
"Freedom in the works of Gabriel Marcel, Martin Buber, and Gerald Manley Hopkins." Aren't all these guys existentialists?

I certainly wouldn't expect a trad college to be promoting works such as these. Here's her bio:

http://fishermore.edu/faculty/dr-judith-stewart-shank/

The journal of Internation Philosophy, with she formerly managed:

http://www.peterlang.com/index.cfm?event=cmp.ccc.seitenstruktur.detailseiten&seitentyp=produkt&pk=7003

I expect that if Vox reads this post she will shout..."They hate Fisher More college!" But no, I'm only raising a concern.

Hopefully none of the other professors or founders of Fisher More have these "unique" qualifications. We'll see.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 08, 2013, 03:16:58 PM
Oops, I made an orror in the above post. The International Journal of Philosophy is not dedicated to the work of Roman Ingarden; rather, it looks as if he was featured in one of their Journals. Sorry for the mistake.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Elizabeth on October 08, 2013, 04:18:39 PM
Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
Did anybody else received this email from Fisheaters?  I never have
signed up nor registered for this forum.






  How weird, I got an email from Fisheater's last night--could not imagine why--

so I deleted without reading, figuring it was a virus.

 

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 08, 2013, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: Jaynek
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl

Well okay then! JayneK, feel free. Loqui! Sprechen! Say your peace publically. Why are you starting drama?


When I said I had no intention of posting here again, I meant it, but I need to say this:

Whatever you all think of me...

I have sent Matthew the names of priests



Darnit, Jayne, it's as bad as I feared. We've been here before, especially with the
Code: [Select]

System.out.println{"Whatever you all think of me" + complaint.tradForum };


line, as well as the embedded process that declares and then PMs current forum moderators with various lists (this time of priests, sometimes of other groups). You're clearly stuck in an infinite loop, which of course pounds the CPU, drains memory, and will eventually cause a stack overflow.

All that can be done is to unjar and search/delete any lines that call functions in the novusordo.jar library (yes, filesize is tiny and it looks primarily empty, but don't let that fool you — bad code in there), or the notoriously problematic vatican2.jar virus library. That last one was written in spaghetti code and, being largely self-referential, of course practically defined "infinite loop". The author of those libs, the Bugnini daemon, was exposed eons ago, but sadly, the code lingers on and seems self-replicating. I think the daemon's primary motive was to alter or remove parts of the magisterium instruction set, but fortunately, that's impenetrable machine code.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: AlligatorDicax on October 10, 2013, 06:35:33 AM
I've wrestled with composing this posting for quite a few days.  Rather than use the words of CathInfo posters as hooks for my comments, I've decided that it's more prudent for me to use direct quotations from Vox Clamatis herself.
Quote from: abouttracy.html (via Matthew Moderator: Sep 30, 2013, 8:12 am)
I just need a gig. I need to find work or win the lottery so I can dig myself out of the hole I'm in, keep this website going, get that kitchen set up, not worry about eating, go to a dentist, keep going to my doctors about my heart stuff, and make sure I have Social Security when the time comes.

I assume that Vox knows the local bakery industry inside & out--assuming that there still is one in Indy--and which kinds of its work might fit her nowadays.  It seems unlikely that she could've worked for 20 years in that industry, and be left without any marketable or transferable skills to show for it.  But I know that I don't know nothin' 'bout bakeries.

Be that as it may, I do guard my own privacy as best I can against invasions by computer technology.  So I wouldn't be surprised if Vox's prospects for "a gig"--one distinct from FE--have been poisoned by the bad fruit of what's been her arguably bad judgment: Publicizing so much information about herself that would be customarily be kept private.  She hasn't merely shot herself in the foot, but aimed at it with a firearm set on 'automatic', and held in the trigger.

Considering the conventional wisdom that human-resources staffs nowadays routinely search the Internet for dirt on otherwise appealing prospective employees, Vox's extreme openness in "abouttracy.html" might've disqualified herself from multiple jobs that might otherwise have seemed entirely plausible.  And she'd be left without even a shred of evidence (except entries in server logs) to alert her that any such thing had happened.  A potential employer might not need to be especially cold-blooded to regard Vox less as a talented individual, but more as a set of 'pre-existing (medical) conditions'.

Encouraging news on U.S. employment is in short supply, and that might be the optimistic way to word the situation.  An on-line article I read a few months ago, probably by an h.r. or recruiting professional, could easily ruin the day for many job-seekers in the U.S.A.'s alleged "economic recovery": It claimed that statistically the most significant predictor of success in job searches nowadays, was whether or not the seeker had been employed full-time within the past 6 months.  Explaining how moderating FE would satisfy that requirement might be a really tall order.

Quote from: abouttracy.html (via Matthew Moderator: Sep 30, 2013, 8:12 am)
The biggest [challenge] for me is manic depression, with those really fun and entertaining "mixed episodes." I can get sorta nuts. [....] I usually hole-up and disappear when I'm crazy and try not to afflict my friends.

Would she have been able to hide her diagnosis of mental illness, e.g.: using prescribed medication, if she hadn't confessed it on her Web page?  That's mostly a rhetorical question, especially now: The reportedly widespread sharing of personal-health data under Obamacare will practically scuttle medical privacy.

Quote from: abouttracy.html (via Matthew Moderator: Sep 30, 2013, 8:12 am)
I have a messed up heart (left ventricular hypertrophic cardiomyopathy) that makes exertion difficult and can make me dizzy, want to faint, and out of breath sometimes.

Would this cause her physician to insist that her "gig" be limited to one that's completely sedentary?

Ironically for this topic, I see that "Catholic" Answers currently has a posted almost-certainly-sedentary "Employment Opportunit[y]": A 'non-exempt' "Customer Service Representative" who has "a basic knowledge of the Magisterium".  But that can't provide new entertaining episodes in the continuing tales of Vox Clamatis.  CA's posting plainly states that it will not pay for relocation.

Some sort of "customer service" position in a call-center might fit well enough, if all of those that were once unavoidably located locally in Indiana haven't now been all off-shored.  And if an employer with paying customers were willing to risk incoming complaints resulting from a customer-service agent "get<ting> sorta nuts" over the phone, especially one known to've been diagnosed with "manic depression".  And if the pace & stress of the job didn't increase her episodes of "get<ting> sorta nuts". And if she could find an alternative to her "hole-up and disappear" approach that met the demands of a time-clock.  And if she could restrict her tobacco habit to infrequent preapproved breaks during her work day.

One of the work-at-home Internet-based "customer service" jobs might be ideal, but extreme caution would be called for, to find one among the superficially appealing ones that's neither a scam nor multilevel marketing.

------
Note *: I've applied simple logical reasoning to what Vox has already confessed in "abouttracy.html", which is viewable by anyone having Internet access and a browser.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 10, 2013, 04:41:56 PM
Quote from: Jaynek

When I said I had no intention of posting here again, I meant it, but I need to say this:




Seriously, why post here then?


---
FE and how it all fell apart is disturbing. Now, you have a tranny who feels validated as a traditional Catholic because he has support there. So much support anyone who brings up the subject gets banned. How the  :devil2: did this happen?

From all I read on both forums this was a tranny who posted pornography and actively, publicly sought to have sɛҳuąƖ encounters on the Internet. All while being a "Traditional Catholic." And now somehow FE members are to be ok with all of this?

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 10, 2013, 07:28:43 PM
..and now I'm starting to get private messages here from Jayne.  Never met her, no interaction with her, no reason to have anything to do with her, and she wants to talk.  Talk about Vox.  With me, a complete and total stranger.  Amazing.

We poor humans are most blinded to those things right in front of us that are destroying us.  

Whether a person thinks that FE is great or terrible, that CI is great or terrible, or that Catholic Answers is great or terrible, any website can become an obsession for certain people and they'd be so much better off without it.  I have no idea who this Jayne person actually is, what her stake in all of this is, and don't care...but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that FE and Vox are a fatal obsession for her.  

Jayne, come out of it.  I don't mean FE, I mean the internet.  You're a poor little sheep, like me, and like me you have your fatal attractions.  For some it's alcohol, or drugs, or sex, but for you I think anyone can see it's the intrigue of the internet.  

Me, I don't figure into this at all.  I'm a passerby.  I stopped by to gawk at a train wreck and talk with some other bystanders about it.  Eventually I'll wander off to some other corner of the web and read about something else. I don't have this as my great temptation, Deo gratias.  I have others.  

Come out of it, Jayne.  It's bad for you.  Maybe some people can't be Catholic on the internet.  I've seen a few that seemed to fit that description, and you are one.  Be Catholic in the real world.  Just disappear, tonite, and never log in again.  Cold turkey.  Don't let yourself be fascinated with whether anyone misses you or not.  Don't let yourself be obsessed with what imaginary avatars are doing on message boards.  Let people with sɛҳuąƖ problems deal with it themselves, they don't need you.  Or me.  Or anyone except their priest.  

Unplug from it.  Not worth your soul.  Not worth anyone's soul.  All true Catholics love your soul.  Take good care of it.          
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 11, 2013, 12:06:07 AM
Quote from: icterus
come out of it...I mean the internet.  


... it's the intrigue of the internet.  

...Be Catholic in the real world....  

Unplug from it.  Not worth your soul.  Not worth anyone's soul.  All true Catholics love your soul.  Take good care of it.          


No kidding.  Doesn't anyone do real life anymore?  I haven't read most of this thread.  

Bah.  I'm bored already.  Gotta go do something.

-LH
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: RosaleeMarie on October 11, 2013, 07:05:51 AM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: icterus
come out of it...I mean the internet.  


... it's the intrigue of the internet.  

...Be Catholic in the real world....  

Unplug from it.  Not worth your soul.  Not worth anyone's soul.  All true Catholics love your soul.  Take good care of it.          


No kidding.  Doesn't anyone do real life anymore?  I haven't read most of this thread.  

Bah.  I'm bored already.  Gotta go do something.

-LH



For some people, the internet is real life.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 11, 2013, 09:35:49 AM
So, I've disabled the messenger function.  It was that, or get drawn into a debate with Jayne, a person I've never met, never spoken to, as far as I know never solicited conversation with, etc.  

I repeated my advice.  For Jayne, I think it's immaterial whether Vox is 'right' or 'wrong'.  Her position as head apologist for a lay person running a large-ish traditional apostolate without commission or oversight is a bad place to be.  

I'd like to point out that all of the people in this situation claim to be under the care of good, traditional priests who are well-informed of all of their activities and are being obeyed.  This, of course, cannot be true.  

I am willing to grant that, especially in these troubled times in the Church, the quality of priests can vary a lot.  However, I too have experience with traditional priests and have confessed a tremendous load of sins to them.  

They. Would.  Not.  put up with these shenannigans from me.  I would be (and have been, in the past when I was younger) told to log off of the internet for a period of time, if my passions were inflamed seriously be the goings-on there.  I have traditional friends.  We go to Mass together and we discuss all of these things, and their confessors do likewise.  

In fact, I think traditional priests, as a group, are pretty much on a hair-trigger to tell their penitents to log off.  As far as I can tell, among all of the traditionalists I know, this is something they are always saying in the confessional.  My experience is with FSSP priests.  SPPX any different?  Let me know.


So.  My point is, I'm calling BS on this idea that priests are involved and informed.  I think if they were, they'd be telling Vox and Jayne and Impy and others the same thing they tell me if I go in and confess problems on or related to the internet.  "Turn it off".  

If I happened to be angry at Jayne (I'm not, I love her soul and want the best for her and have no reason at all to be angry, just to be clear) and I went in to confession and said "Father, I became angry this week at someone on the internet over a matter of the faith" I can tell you from experience what he would say, and what any of the other trad priests I have known (and most NO priests to be fair) would say.  "It's not worth sinning over.  Turn it off.  Take a break.  Pray for discernment as to whether it is good for you."  

I don't think I can adequately describe how unbelievable Impy's continued presence on the web is, if a priest is being consulted there.  Even a bad priest would have taken that particular computer away a long time ago.  


So, that's why I'm calling BS.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 11, 2013, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: icterus


I'd like to point out that all of the people in this situation claim to be under the care of good, traditional priests who are well-informed of all of their activities and are being obeyed.  This, of course, cannot be true.  



Exactly. And though we cannot know with certainty that there are no good, traditional priests involved in the lives and activities of those concerned, there's good evidence that this is indeed true. Which means that there's intentional deception going on. But for what purpose?

On the internet, we need to wary and not just accept that a person is who he or she says that he or she is. If there are glaring contradictions, there's good chance that there's a problem with honesty.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: OHCA on October 13, 2013, 01:02:21 AM
Quote from: Jaynek

When I said I had no intention of posting here again, I meant it, but I need to say this:


Yeah - Yeah - Yeah.  Whatever...


Quote from: Jaynek
There are so many things that I find objectionable on this forum that I can no longer remain here in good conscience.  I do not want my name associated with it.

What is the procedure to have my membership ended?  Matthew, please ban me if that is what is required.

God bless you all.


So much for your principles, huh.

I have never suspected that you aren't a real person and still don't. You remind me too much of some of the hippie flower-child passive-aggressive types at the NO parish that I grew up in for me to think that you are cotrived.  Happy now?

Now maybe you can go back to the sixties in peace and light one up wih Impy or somebody, and play your passive-aggressive/aggressive relativistic morality games, and wish for a moment that hell was real so the "big meanies" opposed to fαɢɢօtry and such could go there.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 13, 2013, 01:27:45 AM
Jayne started a new thread where she was forced to defend church teachings against Impy and his best buddy Vox. Of course Gimpy kept his mouth shut and Vox stuck up for him and tried to kill Jayne off with niceness.
 
JayneK:
I have some objections to a post in another thread. http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461348.0/topicseen.html  Rather than express my objections there and derail that thread, I am starting a new thread.

Quote from: Clare Brigid
I just have to say something.  If I'm banned, so be it.

Vox, how low are you going to sink?  Shirley and Jenny?  Now you're celebrating LESBIAN ELEPHANTS?  This is supposed to make us emotional?  Well, I am.  I am DARNED emotional, but not in the way you and others apparently are.  I am extremely upset and I want this FILTH to end.  And I'm not the only one.

What are other forums going to think when they see this celebration of dyke elephants?  What kind of message are you trying to send?  Please, enough.  This is a new level of SCANDAL.  Pachyderm porn.  Bestial ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  Elephant Elephant  Wonderful.  Traditional Catholicism?  I don't think so.

This was not funny.  It was mockery and it was cruel.  It was completely out of place in this tender, lighthearted thread.

The Church teaching presented in the Catechism was difficult enough at the time it was written.  We have to recognize the serious sinfulness of acting on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies while, at the same time, having compassion and sensitivity for the people struggling with these disordered tendencies.  Since the Catechism was written, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activists have gained power until they are now at the forefront of enemies of the Church.  We have seen the beginnings of a persecution that is likely to become worse.  It has become a crime to merely state the truth that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ behaviour is gravely sinful.  Believing this truth is being portrayed as grounds for denial of public office.  More and more cases are reported of businesses sued for refusal to render services for same sex weddings.  It becomes more and more entrenched in law and culture that we may not speak out against ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ sins and that we are forced to make a show of support and acceptance of them.  Accusations of homophobia bring more and more social ostracism and legal persecution.  

So yes, some Catholics are over-sensitive and overly polemical on the subject of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  Some Catholics have trouble getting their heads around the important distinctions needed to understand Church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. Sometimes their completely justified opposition to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ sins and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activism interferes with their ability to have compassion for people with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies.  Our Lord's call to love our enemies has never been easy.  It is not going to become easier if we mock Catholics with a less than ideal attitude towards or understanding of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  How about having some compassion and sensitivity for scared people who are expecting persecution in the near future?  How about doing something that will help them to do better rather than mocking them for their weakness?  Have you never been weak or imperfectly followed Church teaching?  How did you want people to treat you then?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 13, 2013, 10:46:36 AM
Good for Jayne for complaining about that post, which was much needed. Notice that Vox didn't pay any attention to the concerns that Jayne raised on the issue, which is typical. Perhaps Jayne will now realize that there's something wrong there. And we should keep praying for Vox.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 13, 2013, 11:08:27 AM
I think it's interesting that guac/impy/Brigid Clare, was concerned she might get banned.

I highly doubt that will ever happen.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on October 13, 2013, 12:18:29 PM
The owner of the said forum was on the last ten minutes of this 'Forward Boldly' radio show, starting at about 47:30 minutes into the broadcast.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/forwardboldly/2013/10/13/forward-boldly-msgr-richard-soseman-and-kim-ketola

Um ... what can I say.  Um ... holy cow.

Meanwhile even though the NCR article in question is titled "Vatican says 'sex-change' operation does not change person's gender" and even though the man that had the sex change operation had finally told the truth about his priest telling him that he should not identify himself as a woman or request to be identified as a woman, the owner of said forum still insists on treating him like a woman and refers to him by the feminine name that he chose to identify himself with at the said forum.

And meanwhile last March the owner of the said forum along with some of the members of the said forum put this same man up on a pedestal and encouraged him with his same sex attraction identity when he came out as a person with same sex attraction.

And meanwhile last May the owner of the said forum along with some of the members of the said forum again encouraged this same man when he came out as a transgender person in a thread that he started titled "I'm. Coming. Out." and said that he had a sex change operation.  And the owner of the said forum changed this same man's forum member name from a masculine name to the feminine name that he chose and still allows it.

We all know that there is a lot more to this story but the owner of the said forum still does not get it, still identifies him as a her even though his priest told him not to identify as a woman and the forum owner still calls her forum a traditional Catholic forum.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 13, 2013, 12:56:21 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
I think it's interesting that guac/impy/Brigid Clare, was concerned she might get banned.

I highly doubt that will ever happen.



I think that guac/impy/clare wasn't really concerned about being banned - that was just part of the joke. I'm not surprised that Impy wrote something like that. What causes concern is that Vox said that she begged him to post it on the forum, after he sent it to Vox in a private email.

What also is cause for concern is an article on FE, posted by Vox yesterday, titled, "Men, women, love, respect, and romance." It contains sɛҳuąƖly explicit language, and I can't see that there's any good reason for posting something like that. It's disgusting.

That's why prayers for her are much-needed. When someone's mind is in the gutter, they need help to get out of it.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: mikemac on October 13, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: Meg
Good for Jayne for complaining about that post, which was much needed. Notice that Vox didn't pay any attention to the concerns that Jayne raised on the issue, which is typical. Perhaps Jayne will now realize that there's something wrong there. And we should keep praying for Vox.


Yeah I thought that was good of Jayne too.  Last night she posted this in the same thread.

"As I said in the OP, I think that a major obstacle in getting the charity part of the Church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, is that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activists are trying to destroy the Church.  These people to whom we are being told to show charity are our persecutors."
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 13, 2013, 01:13:31 PM
I can't believe how far gone Vox is. She really tried to guilt Jayne into thinking Gimpy's joke was light hearted and non offensive to Catholics. Christulsa is still a wolf in SSPX skins. Fisheaters is soon to become a lesbian hangout with its name taking on a different meaning
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Charlemagne on October 13, 2013, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: Devekut
I can't believe how far gone Vox is. She really tried to guilt Jayne into thinking Gimpy's joke was light hearted and non offensive to Catholics. Christulsa is still a wolf in SSPX skins. Fisheaters is soon to become a lesbian hangout with its name taking on a different meaning


Thumbs up for the last sentence alone. :laugh1:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 13, 2013, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Meg
Quote from: 2Vermont
I think it's interesting that guac/impy/Brigid Clare, was concerned she might get banned.

I highly doubt that will ever happen.



I think that guac/impy/clare wasn't really concerned about being banned - that was just part of the joke. I'm not surprised that Impy wrote something like that. What causes concern is that Vox said that she begged him to post it on the forum, after he sent it to Vox in a private email.

What also is cause for concern is an article on FE, posted by Vox yesterday, titled, "Men, women, love, respect, and romance." It contains sɛҳuąƖly explicit language, and I can't see that there's any good reason for posting something like that. It's disgusting.

That's why prayers for her are much-needed. When someone's mind is in the gutter, they need help to get out of it.


Exactly Meg. You see it as it truly is.

The thread that started it all....
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?topic=3458857.200

The op is a video of a song I'm Coming Out. First reply charitably reminds impy of Catholic teaching.

Impy's reply reveals the undeniable purpose of the thread. Read carefully. It is a troll post, blatant and intentional.
"Thanks, Dan, but I'm heterosɛҳuąƖ!  I'm exclusively attracted to men." This is a man saying this.

Then a few posts down, Impy states this....
"The Vatican also instructed that those who have undergone the procedure may not marry, be ordained or enter religious life.

I nevertheless intend to continue to date men, and hopefully someday marry a good man."


Now, here is a man who has threw this in the faces of the membership of what was once a trad forum, and follows by stating he intends to reject Church teaching.

vox's reply ?

"Wow, she did it. Gutsy, Impy! Very, very gutsy, especially at a place like this!"

There is is. Vox condones it, glorifies it, and reveals she knew beforehand Impy was going to do it !

I couldn't read any further. No need to.


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 13, 2013, 03:30:33 PM
Quote from: Devekut
I can't believe how far gone Vox is. She really tried to guilt Jayne into thinking Gimpy's joke was light hearted and non offensive to Catholics. Christulsa is still a wolf in SSPX skins. Fisheaters is soon to become a lesbian hangout with its name taking on a different meaning


I find it hard to believe this "chris" person is a SSPX chapel goer.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 13, 2013, 03:40:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Chris was Gimpy. I wonder how many other different names he has other than the known three. Vox is so far up his empty nut sack that I now fully understand why she had to ban me and give a bogus reason for it.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 13, 2013, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Meg
Quote from: 2Vermont
I think it's interesting that guac/impy/Brigid Clare, was concerned she might get banned.

I highly doubt that will ever happen.



I think that guac/impy/clare wasn't really concerned about being banned - that was just part of the joke. I'm not surprised that Impy wrote something like that. What causes concern is that Vox said that she begged him to post it on the forum, after he sent it to Vox in a private email.

What also is cause for concern is an article on FE, posted by Vox yesterday, titled, "Men, women, love, respect, and romance." It contains sɛҳuąƖly explicit language, and I can't see that there's any good reason for posting something like that. It's disgusting.

That's why prayers for her are much-needed. When someone's mind is in the gutter, they need help to get out of it.


Exactly Meg. You see it as it truly is.

The thread that started it all....
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?topic=3458857.200

The op is a video of a song I'm Coming Out. First reply charitably reminds impy of Catholic teaching.

Impy's reply reveals the undeniable purpose of the thread. Read carefully. It is a troll post, blatant and intentional.
"Thanks, Dan, but I'm heterosɛҳuąƖ!  I'm exclusively attracted to men." This is a man saying this.

Then a few posts down, Impy states this....
"The Vatican also instructed that those who have undergone the procedure may not marry, be ordained or enter religious life.

I nevertheless intend to continue to date men, and hopefully someday marry a good man."


Now, here is a man who has threw this in the faces of the membership of what was once a trad forum, and follows by stating he intends to reject Church teaching.

vox's reply ?

"Wow, she did it. Gutsy, Impy! Very, very gutsy, especially at a place like this!"

There is is. Vox condones it, glorifies it, and reveals she knew beforehand Impy was going to do it !

I couldn't read any further. No need to.




Regarding Impy saying on that thread that he's a heterosɛҳuąƖ, well, a year earlier he stated on one of the 'Catholics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity' threads that he suffers from SSA (same sex attraction). So which is it? Did he decide at some point that he's really a woman trapped in a man's body? It's just another example of the rampant contradiction that is the Fisheaters forum. Which Vox is just fine with.

Also, I think that Pope Pius X' Pascendi said something about being aware that there are those modernists who will try to use science and 'feelings" in order to introduce novelty.

No matter how many times she states that she believes in Church teaching on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, this cannot be true, given everything she's posted there. Still, we must be concerned with her immortal soul, and Impy's, and everyone who will be badly influenced by that forum. I offered this morning's Mass for the intention that Vox not any more be attracted to things of an impure nature. Many people, even Catholics of course, have this problem, but it can be overcome with help from Our Lord and Our Lady. No one is beyond help.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 13, 2013, 04:55:12 PM
Quote
Regarding Impy saying on that thread that he's a heterosɛҳuąƖ, well, a year earlier he stated on one of the 'Catholics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity' threads that he suffers from SSA (same sex attraction). So which is it? Did he decide at some point that he's really a woman trapped in a man's body? It's just another example of the rampant contradiction that is the Fisheaters forum. Which Vox is just fine with.



This is the meat of it.  Vox's reading of the situation is so simple-minded that many, you and me included, interpret it as dishonesty.  

Everyone, Vox included, knows Impy changes the story on a regular basis, and even if perhaps by some great pain-inducing stretch of the imagination ONE version of it could be reconciled with some Church teaching, the other concurrent versions cannot.  Plain conclusion - lying troll.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 13, 2013, 05:51:08 PM
Quote from: icterus
Quote
Regarding Impy saying on that thread that he's a heterosɛҳuąƖ, well, a year earlier he stated on one of the 'Catholics and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity' threads that he suffers from SSA (same sex attraction). So which is it? Did he decide at some point that he's really a woman trapped in a man's body? It's just another example of the rampant contradiction that is the Fisheaters forum. Which Vox is just fine with.



This is the meat of it.  Vox's reading of the situation is so simple-minded that many, you and me included, interpret it as dishonesty.  

Everyone, Vox included, knows Impy changes the story on a regular basis, and even if perhaps by some great pain-inducing stretch of the imagination ONE version of it could be reconciled with some Church teaching, the other concurrent versions cannot.  Plain conclusion - lying troll.  


Trad hating lying troll.  He even boasts about being a heretic on one thread.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 14, 2013, 01:48:59 AM
If Jayne really posted that thread and not in jest —wow, I'm truly amazed and applaud the woman.

 :applause:

I myself have been caught up in the "too charitable bordering on heretic" quandry this weekend, thinking I was being "charitable" only to be corrected that I was supporting anti-Christ heresy. I know it's quite a bitter pill to swallow, but swallow it we must.

I'm not heading over to The Kill to see; I'll trust Meg and others here that Jayne made a stand for the Church, and will certainly continue prayers for her.

I'm sorry Jayne for thinking you were code. Really, it is just a means of remaining at peace. I like peace. Better than the alternative.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 14, 2013, 06:41:13 AM
I hate to break up the party but Jayne isn't standing up for any more Church teaching than before. She still calls Impy Clare and believes they are correct but simply doesn't think those who are confused and oversensitive to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activists, fearing persecution (that's us) will learn anything through mockery. We have to be taught charitably. That's very nice of her to have sympathy for us poor fearful simpletons but it has nothing to do with her standing up for Church teaching on the issue.

As for the joke itself it's further proof of how desensitized we are to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. I wonder what would happen if someone started making sarcastic jokes about abortion. They'd offend everyone's senses pretty quickly. Add insult to injury and tell those not laughing that they're just sticks in the mud, God has a sense of humor. They wouldn't last long at all. Yet ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is in the same category and few bat an eye. I bet God's Ape has a sense of humor too. Everyone has a sense of humor, what they find funny reveals just how innocent or perverse they are (and all the shades in between).





Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on October 14, 2013, 01:31:11 PM
Wallflower has a history of wonderful posts, and I'm so glad she posts here. All I have to add to her testimony is a quite old but ever-true quote from Pope St. Peter:

Quote from: Pope St. Peter
For the time past is sufficient to have fulfilled the will of the Gentiles, for them who have walked in riotousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and unlawful worshipping of idols.

Wherein they think it strange, that you run not with them into the same confusion of riotousness, speaking evil of you.

Who shall render account to him, who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit.

But the end of all is at hand. Be prudent therefore, and watch in prayers.


Prudence brought us to CI, where we may resist in peace and not be constantly subject to things that have already been long decided. Which reminds me, I also like what Our Lord said during His Passion:

Quote from: God
It is finished
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 14, 2013, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: StCeciliasGirl
Wallflower has a history of wonderful posts, and I'm so glad she posts here. All I have to add to her testimony is a quite old but ever-true quote from Pope St. Peter:

Quote from: Pope St. Peter
For the time past is sufficient to have fulfilled the will of the Gentiles, for them who have walked in riotousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and unlawful worshipping of idols.

Wherein they think it strange, that you run not with them into the same confusion of riotousness, speaking evil of you.

Who shall render account to him, who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit.

But the end of all is at hand. Be prudent therefore, and watch in prayers.


Prudence brought us to CI, where we may resist in peace and not be constantly subject to things that have already been long decided. Which reminds me, I also like what Our Lord said during His Passion:

Quote from: God
It is finished


 :applause:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 14, 2013, 03:57:05 PM
This just in: Professed heretic lectures Catholics on schism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461408.0.html

He states he will ignore Church teaching and marry another man, then posts that. If FE had a Roman Catholic at the helm, that kind of crap wouldn't fly.

Money trumps truth in the halls of FE.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 14, 2013, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
This just in: Professed heretic lectures Catholics on schism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461408.0.html

He states he will ignore Church teaching and marry another man, then posts that. If FE had a Roman Catholic at the helm, that kind of crap wouldn't fly.

Money trumps truth in the halls of FE.


This is "rich" indeed.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: RosaleeMarie on October 14, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
This just in: Professed heretic lectures Catholics on schism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461408.0.html

He states he will ignore Church teaching and marry another man, then posts that. If FE had a Roman Catholic at the helm, that kind of crap wouldn't fly.

Money trumps truth in the halls of FE.



That is truly horrifying.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 14, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: St Magnus
This just in: Professed heretic lectures Catholics on schism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461408.0.html

He states he will ignore Church teaching and marry another man, then posts that. If FE had a Roman Catholic at the helm, that kind of crap wouldn't fly.

Money trumps truth in the halls of FE.


Was the whole transgender issue made "acceptable" because money was exchanged to keep the site from going under?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on October 14, 2013, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Ursus
Quote from: St Magnus
This just in: Professed heretic lectures Catholics on schism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461408.0.html

He states he will ignore Church teaching and marry another man, then posts that. If FE had a Roman Catholic at the helm, that kind of crap wouldn't fly.

Money trumps truth in the halls of FE.


Was the whole transgender issue made "acceptable" because money was exchanged to keep the site from going under?


It just seems that those who donate are given free reign. They can post whatever/however they like.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 14, 2013, 09:09:27 PM
Quote
It just seems that those who donate are given free reign. They can post whatever/however they like.


One of the (many) things that turned me off to Protestantism was the fact that congregations often hired and fired pastors....meaning that pastors had to preach acceptable theology or else lose their jobs.  Looks like Vox has re-invented the Protestant system...
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 15, 2013, 04:30:03 AM
Quote from: St Magnus
Quote from: Ursus
Quote from: St Magnus
This just in: Professed heretic lectures Catholics on schism.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461408.0.html

He states he will ignore Church teaching and marry another man, then posts that. If FE had a Roman Catholic at the helm, that kind of crap wouldn't fly.

Money trumps truth in the halls of FE.


Was the whole transgender issue made "acceptable" because money was exchanged to keep the site from going under?


It just seems that those who donate are given free reign. They can post whatever/however they like.


Not true. I stupidly donated.  And I was banned.  Of course I was only a blue fishy.  You would think that having been a contributor though that I would have at least been contacted prior to getting thrown out.  Or at least given another chance.  Got to love the preaching, but not the practicing of charity.....lol.

I stopped my paypal payment as soon as I was banned, but I just saw on my recent statement that I still had a Sept 2nd payment.  That had better be the last payment before my ban or I'll be contacting Paypal.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Solidus on October 15, 2013, 12:10:46 PM
This isn't surprising. The Fag Mafia operates this way. Sodomites tend to be very wealthy and usually have the money to make or break an organization that operates on public donations.

This is a text book example of how organizations get corrupted by the Fag Mafia. Vox wasn't getting enough money because many of her donors left after Tranny-gate, and who comes into the rescue? The man who started this financial exodus in the first place. The man who also happens to be lawyer with enough money to mutilate his genitals and then post pictures of the hack job on pornographic websites.

It's amazing to see how liberal/progressive the place has become in just a short time span. It seems like anyone with an ounce of traditionalism is banned. It's like CAF, except the "hardliners" are mickey mouse Catholics (FSSP, etc.).

It seems after Papst Ratzinger abdicated the throne the pseudo-trads (I'm speaking of those "in union" with Vatican II) have lost their minds. They're in complete symbiosis with Pope Obama Bishop of Rome Jorge. Genital mutilation and sodomy? Who am I to judge? As the Poles say, "Jaki pan taki kram".

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: wallflower on October 15, 2013, 01:12:04 PM
Quote from: wallflower
I hate to break up the party but Jayne isn't standing up for any more Church teaching than before. She still calls Impy Clare and believes they are correct but simply doesn't think those who are confused and oversensitive to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activists, fearing persecution (that's us) will learn anything through mockery. We have to be taught charitably. That's very nice of her to have sympathy for us poor fearful simpletons but it has nothing to do with her standing up for Church teaching on the issue.



Five thumbs up makes it a bit awkward for me to correct myself. Saying Jayne believes "they are correct" was a bit too simplistic to be fair to her. She disagrees with sex changes, the coming out thread and its handling. She calls Impy Clare as a part of picking battles so that he can be exhorted to chastity at least. Obviously I disagree with this tactic since there is sin in taking on another sex in itself, whether one is chaste or not, but I do not want to misrepresent Jayne's position since she does seem to be sincere in trying to find the best way to handle it. Hence I don't mind correcting myself to be a bit more specific.


Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 15, 2013, 01:48:42 PM
Quote from: mikemac
The owner of the said forum was on the last ten minutes of this 'Forward Boldly' radio show, starting at about 47:30 minutes into the broadcast.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/forwardboldly/2013/10/13/forward-boldly-msgr-richard-soseman-and-kim-ketola

Um ... what can I say.  Um ... holy cow.

Meanwhile even though the NCR article in question is titled "Vatican says 'sex-change' operation does not change person's gender" and even though the man that had the sex change operation had finally told the truth about his priest telling him that he should not identify himself as a woman or request to be identified as a woman, the owner of said forum still insists on treating him like a woman and refers to him by the feminine name that he chose to identify himself with at the said forum.

And meanwhile last March the owner of the said forum along with some of the members of the said forum put this same man up on a pedestal and encouraged him with his same sex attraction identity when he came out as a person with same sex attraction.

And meanwhile last May the owner of the said forum along with some of the members of the said forum again encouraged this same man when he came out as a transgender person in a thread that he started titled "I'm. Coming. Out." and said that he had a sex change operation.  And the owner of the said forum changed this same man's forum member name from a masculine name to the feminine name that he chose and still allows it.

We all know that there is a lot more to this story but the owner of the said forum still does not get it, still identifies him as a her even though his priest told him not to identify as a woman and the forum owner still calls her forum a traditional Catholic forum.


It would seem that Vox is trying to promote her views on sex-change and transsɛҳuąƖs in some of the Catholic media outlets (Novus Ordo type outlets). Now she is trying to arrange to interview Michael Voris, who seems to be starting to lean more toward tradition all the time, and though I doubt that he will ever criticize the Pope, he does make some good observations about the Crisis in the Church. I don't know if she's going to promote her cause of supporting transsɛҳuąƖs or not with Mr. Voris. I hope not.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: RosaleeMarie on October 15, 2013, 04:15:20 PM
Quote from: Meg
Quote from: mikemac
The owner of the said forum was on the last ten minutes of this 'Forward Boldly' radio show, starting at about 47:30 minutes into the broadcast.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/forwardboldly/2013/10/13/forward-boldly-msgr-richard-soseman-and-kim-ketola

Um ... what can I say.  Um ... holy cow.

Meanwhile even though the NCR article in question is titled "Vatican says 'sex-change' operation does not change person's gender" and even though the man that had the sex change operation had finally told the truth about his priest telling him that he should not identify himself as a woman or request to be identified as a woman, the owner of said forum still insists on treating him like a woman and refers to him by the feminine name that he chose to identify himself with at the said forum.

And meanwhile last March the owner of the said forum along with some of the members of the said forum put this same man up on a pedestal and encouraged him with his same sex attraction identity when he came out as a person with same sex attraction.

And meanwhile last May the owner of the said forum along with some of the members of the said forum again encouraged this same man when he came out as a transgender person in a thread that he started titled "I'm. Coming. Out." and said that he had a sex change operation.  And the owner of the said forum changed this same man's forum member name from a masculine name to the feminine name that he chose and still allows it.

We all know that there is a lot more to this story but the owner of the said forum still does not get it, still identifies him as a her even though his priest told him not to identify as a woman and the forum owner still calls her forum a traditional Catholic forum.


It would seem that Vox is trying to promote her views on sex-change and transsɛҳuąƖs in some of the Catholic media outlets (Novus Ordo type outlets). Now she is trying to arrange to interview Michael Voris, who seems to be starting to lean more toward tradition all the time, and though I doubt that he will ever criticize the Pope, he does make some good observations about the Crisis in the Church. I don't know if she's going to promote her cause of supporting transsɛҳuąƖs or not with Mr. Voris. I hope not.


I don't know that she would get very far with that if she tried.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 15, 2013, 04:27:18 PM
Haha well, I already contacted Mr. Voris in regards to all of this when she setup that challenge to all priests. So, he should be aware of this by now or will soon be, as his inbox is probably flooded.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 15, 2013, 04:36:13 PM
Quote from: Devekut
Haha well, I already contacted Mr. Voris in regards to all of this when she setup that challenge to all priests. So, he should be aware of this by now or will soon be, as his inbox is probably flooded.


Do you have a direct email for Michael Voris? I've been emailing the Church Militant TV site, and the emails go through one of his employees. I've requested that he be able to view the info I sent, but have not received any feedback that he's seen my concerns. And his spokesperson seems to have to have been taken in by Vox's view of the situation. Unfortunately.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: icterus on October 20, 2013, 10:06:51 PM
Since the transsɛҳuąƖism issue is still ongoing at FE, I thought it was worth posting a question that I hadn't seen posed before.  

Concerning the stance that FE has taken on transsɛҳuąƖs and sex-change surgery...

Do you think Vox understands that sex-change surgery does not produce a *functional* individual?  

Reading her posts about the subject, I get the distinct feeling that she is imagining a human with a penis and testicles who (with sub secretum Vatican permission) has the penis and testicles removed and somehow is given a functional uterus and ovaries via surgery...resulting in a functional female who is now eligible for marriage to a male.  

Or, vice versa, a person who has ovaries and uterus and vagina removed and is given a working penis and testicles that result in a functional male capable of inseminating a female.

This, of course, does not exist on Earth.  All that exists are cosmetic surgeries that produce external visual facsimiles - non functional ones.  People who undergo these procedures will never be eligible for a Catholic marriage again.  No longer able to in fact consummate a marriage, if they were ever able, they are now in a canonical limbo, unable to marry...and so what was the point?

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 21, 2013, 08:07:04 PM
Meg,
I don't have his direct contact. It's a shame that even Voris has liberals in his organization. I wonder if he knows.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2013, 09:10:36 PM
Quote from: icterus
Since the transsɛҳuąƖism issue is still ongoing at FE, I thought it was worth posting a question that I hadn't seen posed before.  

Concerning the stance that FE has taken on transsɛҳuąƖs and sex-change surgery...

Do you think Vox understands that sex-change surgery does not produce a *functional* individual?  





At this point who cares. Bottom line the tranny who started all that is almost running the place. Commenting, dishing out Catholic "teachings."

Any mention of transgender that's not supportive gets you banned. Devil works his deeds.

How many traditional or people leaning towards that will end up in sin? What a mess.

It should shut down. That was the all the talk last month.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Meg on October 22, 2013, 11:32:38 AM
Quote from: Devekut
Meg,
I don't have his direct contact. It's a shame that even Voris has liberals in his organization. I wonder if he knows.


I got the impression that Voris' employee - who answers the emails - is quite young, and doesn't understand tradition very well. He said that he'd discussed the issue of transgenderism with Vox for several hours on the phone. Sheesh! It may be the case, too, where Vox was very persuasive - even some trads are fooled into thinking that her views on transgenderism can be reconciled with tradition.

I did, however, send the links to Vox's site where she proclaims that she loves drag queens, and which also shows her interest in studying medieval astrology, and using tarot and the I ching. Voris' employee said that he would ask her about this, since he was concerned about it. I haven't heard back since then. I think that Voris is astute enough to know a fake trad when he sees one - but his employee - not so much.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 23, 2013, 01:39:52 PM
Meg,
Do you have an account with Church Militant? If so, threaten to cancel it, along with your other friends if the employee doesn't allow Voris to read the email.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 23, 2013, 02:58:51 PM
Quote from: Ursus
Quote from: icterus
Since the transsɛҳuąƖism issue is still ongoing at FE, I thought it was worth posting a question that I hadn't seen posed before.  

Concerning the stance that FE has taken on transsɛҳuąƖs and sex-change surgery...

Do you think Vox understands that sex-change surgery does not produce a *functional* individual?  





At this point who cares. Bottom line the tranny who started all that is almost running the place. Commenting, dishing out Catholic "teachings."

Any mention of transgender that's not supportive gets you banned. Devil works his deeds.

How many traditional or people leaning towards that will end up in sin? What a mess.

It should shut down. That was the all the talk last month.


It really is a joke to watch him wagging his finger over there.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Pheo on October 23, 2013, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Meg
It may be the case, too, where Vox was very persuasive - even some trads are fooled into thinking that her views on transgenderism can be reconciled with tradition.


Vox misrepresents quite a few of the important details.  I may not be a brilliant theologian, but I do have a good memory and I watched all of this play out.  She pretends that Impy got permission from trad priests to take estrogen and live as a woman.  Well that's demonstrably false.  But somehow she has a way of using those details and setting the story up in a way that turns people to her side.  I'm not sure why they just take her word for it, but they do (I think another victim of the tank was right with his "herd" theory).

She's also in way over her head.  She had a couple physicians and someone with a PhD in a related field pointing out where and why she was wrong...but that just didn't fit her narrative.  So she ignored those posts.

Is she still letting Impy keep "Exivi" under his avatar?  Or did she finally realize that his trans-triumphalistic motto didn't help the cause of Catholic tradition?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Petertherock on October 23, 2013, 07:46:02 PM
I am so glad I got banned from FE. That place is a cesspool.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Immaculata001 on October 23, 2013, 10:58:28 PM
Quote from: Petertherock
I am so glad I got banned from FE. That place is a cesspool.


I just cannot believe what Vox is stating over there.

She is now talking about "transɛҳuąƖs" having "female brain wiring" and male anatomy. She is saying that The Church maintains that the surgery is licit in cases where it can heal "the psychic trauma." She saying that "The Church heads science" as though Church teaching springs from or responds to scientific teaching. She's saying that "true" transɛҳuąƖs are intersexed. What is she even talking about?

Here is an amazing quote that grossly oversimplifies and distorts science:

Quote
All one has to do is to make scans of the brains of large populations of men and women and ask each person to self-identify as "male" or "female" and look at the results


She goes on to maintain that "transɛҳuąƖ" brains are more like the brains of the sex they want to become. What is she talking about? What types of scans? What areas of the brain? This is insane.

There is no evidence to support ANYTHING she is saying. NONE. She is deceiving people. This is outrageous.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Zeitun on October 23, 2013, 11:29:02 PM
If people believe a lie that they know contradicts the teachings of the Church they condemn themselves.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: MaterDominici on October 24, 2013, 12:07:19 AM
Quote from: mikemac
The owner of the said forum was on the last ten minutes of this 'Forward Boldly' radio show, starting at about 47:30 minutes into the broadcast.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/forwardboldly/2013/10/13/forward-boldly-msgr-richard-soseman-and-kim-ketola


So, they spend a couple of minutes talking about how Tracy cracks down on anyone who is disrespectful to the Sacred Office of the Papacy. And then, about 20 seconds later, Tracy uses "Oh my God" as an interjection.  :facepalm:


Blessed be the Name of the Lord
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on October 24, 2013, 02:21:06 AM
Well, Vox just admitted that she hates "radtrads". It was to my understanding that she once welcomed and fully supported such labels. FE is most definitely a smells and bells cafeteria now.

"What's going in is that I am getting rid of the rad trads and have been for the past couple of years, making periodic purges of the place. I hate radtraddism. Am DONE with it. Don't want it here. And some folks left of their own accord after "Transgendergate." The folks filling their ranks are a much kinder, gentler lot, and that's exactly what I want. I want people here who know Jesus, not people who want to play ego games or judge souls or call folks heretics for disagreeing with them and all the other stuff rad trads are into. Can't stand it, man.

QuisUtDeus was my ex-husband by civil marriage. He dumped me and broke my heart around the "Lauragate" time. I think that while he had good intentions with the "Laura thing," he mishandled it badly.

Moving forward, you listed a number of great things I'd LOVE to do if I had the time and money. I recently posted a list of things I want to add to the site itself if I were to ever have the time to do it. You can see the list here:  http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461535.0.html -- and in that same thread, you can read about some of the stuff you're talking about in this post. In fact, I think I will merge the threads after I know you've read this. Please post here so I'll know when that is."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461623.0.html
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: ggreg on October 24, 2013, 07:27:04 AM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: Ursus
Quote from: icterus
Since the transsɛҳuąƖism issue is still ongoing at FE, I thought it was worth posting a question that I hadn't seen posed before.  

Concerning the stance that FE has taken on transsɛҳuąƖs and sex-change surgery...

Do you think Vox understands that sex-change surgery does not produce a *functional* individual?  





At this point who cares. Bottom line the tranny who started all that is almost running the place. Commenting, dishing out Catholic "teachings."

Any mention of transgender that's not supportive gets you banned. Devil works his deeds.

How many traditional or people leaning towards that will end up in sin? What a mess.

It should shut down. That was the all the talk last month.


It really is a joke to watch him wagging his finger over there.


It's all he has left to wag.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 24, 2013, 08:04:11 AM
Quote from: Devekut
Well, Vox just admitted that she hates "radtrads". It was to my understanding that she once welcomed and fully supported such labels. FE is most definitely a smells and bells cafeteria now.

"What's going in is that I am getting rid of the rad trads and have been for the past couple of years, making periodic purges of the place. I hate radtraddism. Am DONE with it. Don't want it here. And some folks left of their own accord after "Transgendergate." The folks filling their ranks are a much kinder, gentler lot, and that's exactly what I want. I want people here who know Jesus, not people who want to play ego games or judge souls or call folks heretics for disagreeing with them and all the other stuff rad trads are into. Can't stand it, man.

QuisUtDeus was my ex-husband by civil marriage. He dumped me and broke my heart around the "Lauragate" time. I think that while he had good intentions with the "Laura thing," he mishandled it badly.

Moving forward, you listed a number of great things I'd LOVE to do if I had the time and money. I recently posted a list of things I want to add to the site itself if I were to ever have the time to do it. You can see the list here:  http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461535.0.html -- and in that same thread, you can read about some of the stuff you're talking about in this post. In fact, I think I will merge the threads after I know you've read this. Please post here so I'll know when that is."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461623.0.html


A gaggle of effeminate men and liberal women*, all of who are more worried about "what they're currently listening to" or "what the last movie they saw was" rather than anything uniquely Catholic.  For crying out loud, Vox doesn't even support the NEOsspx.  She's thoroughly Novus Ordo/Indult.  Whenever she appeals to "trad priests" it comes with some kind of disclaimer saying that he needs to be "in full communion with the Holy See."  Which, of course, probably narrows it down to five priests worldwide.  Her idea of traditional Catholicism, as has been made clear over the last several years, is based on the integration of traditionalism with modern values.  That has to be it.  No serious traditional Catholic goes to the courts to have their adultery civilly recognized, or lauds a perverted and predatory man for his "bravery" in announcing his disgusting perversion to the world (and then doing her best to protect him from the just backlash).  I could keep going and going, but that site is dedicated to blurring the lines between tradition and modern, to try to convince that modern values are "traditional."  

*Yes, there are a handful (maybe less?) of exceptions.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on October 24, 2013, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: Meg
Quote from: Devekut
Meg,
I don't have his direct contact. It's a shame that even Voris has liberals in his organization. I wonder if he knows.


I got the impression that Voris' employee - who answers the emails - is quite young, and doesn't understand tradition very well. He said that he'd discussed the issue of transgenderism with Vox for several hours on the phone. Sheesh! It may be the case, too, where Vox was very persuasive - even some trads are fooled into thinking that her views on transgenderism can be reconciled with tradition.

I did, however, send the links to Vox's site where she proclaims that she loves drag queens, and which also shows her interest in studying medieval astrology, and using tarot and the I ching. Voris' employee said that he would ask her about this, since he was concerned about it. I haven't heard back since then. I think that Voris is astute enough to know a fake trad when he sees one - but his employee - not so much.


This is the ONLY reason it bothers me that Fisheaters is so "big". The fact that she is more likely (the only one likely?) to get interviewed by a media outlet, since she owns and runs Fisheaters.

Numbers are always a siren song for any "leader", whether it's the owner of a small Catholic forum, or the Superior General of an international pious union.

Numbers are kind of like money, actually. A person can want money to buy a functional car for their family of 10 -- or they can want something base and worldly like a vacation.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 26, 2013, 08:21:03 AM
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461656.msg33936201.html#msg33936201

So now she's "allowing" SV to be discussed on her forum.  Too bad she's banned most of the folks who would actually like to discuss it.

Oh wait, this will be a great way to catch all those meanies and ban them all!

She decided to allow it after reading LH's post.  If she follows his advice completely then only anti-SV posts are allowed!
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 26, 2013, 08:43:47 AM
I noticed something very interesting.

Here is a link to the stats (pageviews, new posts, new topics, new members, etc. on a monthly basis):

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?action=stats

What I'm really paying attention to is the column of new posts.  You'll see that beginning in May of 2009, going all the way to March of 2013, FE was getting more than ten thousand (and averaging, at a cursory glance, probably fifteen thousand) new posts per month.  There is one anomaly in that stretch of March 2012, though I think that can be explained easily by Lent.  

After March of 2013, there is a marked decline (spanning seven months, until now) in new posts.  Definitely not an anomaly, but a clear trend.  What happened in March of 2013?  Well, I know that's when I was banned.  But that's when Francis was elected.  Is that also when Impy "came out?"  In any event, when April 2013 rolled around, FE was on a clear down trend and has continued thus.

Now, the actual page views have not suffered, though I think that can easily be owed to FE being discussed here often over the last six months.



Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 26, 2013, 11:54:05 AM
Quote from: 2Vermont
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461656.msg33936201.html#msg33936201

So now she's "allowing" SV to be discussed on her forum.  Too bad she's banned most of the folks who would actually like to discuss it.

Oh wait, this will be a great way to catch all those meanies and ban them all!

She decided to allow it after reading LH's post.  If she follows his advice completely then only anti-SV posts are allowed!


You should be happy about it.  Now, the issues can be laid out on the table.  If sedevacantism has nothing to fear in a debate forum, then you have nothing to worry about.

-L
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 26, 2013, 12:07:55 PM
Because allowing only anti SV posts is soooooo a debate.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 26, 2013, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Because allowing only anti SV posts is soooooo a debate.



If you step back, you will see that the debate is across the forums and across the internet.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 26, 2013, 12:30:11 PM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont
Because allowing only anti SV posts is soooooo a debate.



If you step back, you will see that the debate is across the forums and across the internet.


 I understand your desire to keep snarky nasty gossipy ankle-biters off the forum.  My suggestion then?  Allow discussions of the schism of sedevacantism, so long as the discussions are against it.  Do not allow pro-sedes to spread their pro-schismatic words.  I mean, if being a sedevacantist is wrong, then surely it would not be wrong to ban pro-sede talk here and encourage anti-sede talk, would it? - Laramie Hirsch


There may be debate on the Internet, but that is not what you are advocating at FE.

::goes back to ignoring LH::

And Matthew, notice again a very clear judgment on LH's Part:  "the schism of sedevacantism"; "pro-schismatic words"
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Jaynek on October 26, 2013, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont

And Matthew, notice again a very clear judgment on LH's Part:  "the schism of sedevacantism"; "pro-schismatic words"


It isn't simply a judgment on SV as a theological position, there are negative assumptions about the character and behaviour of people who hold the position.  I find that far more objectionable.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 26, 2013, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: Jaynek
Quote from: 2Vermont

And Matthew, notice again a very clear judgment on LH's Part:  "the schism of sedevacantism"; "pro-schismatic words"


It isn't simply a judgment on SV as a theological position, there are negative assumptions about the character and behaviour of people who hold the position.  I find that far more objectionable.  


Dogmatic sedevacantists are not allowed to spout that others are in schism or heretics, etc...they get banned here.  Dogmatic sedeplenists should not be allowed to do the same.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 26, 2013, 12:59:27 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
Dogmatic sedevacantists are not allowed to spout that others are in schism or heretics, etc...they get banned here.


Lol!  I've been called a schismatic all month!  Not that I care.  

It is no secret what I think, and it can be read in the Crisis subforu:  http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Sedevacantism-is-schismatic



Two recommendations to you, 2Vermont.  

1.  Make your own blog if you don't feel like you're completely stating what you want here.

2.  Click the red "HIDE" button if you are tired of listening to me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mithrandylan on October 26, 2013, 06:28:30 PM
You're a funny guy, OHCA.  Insightful, too.  If we ever run into each other, drinks on me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 26, 2013, 10:06:50 PM
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont
Because allowing only anti SV posts is soooooo a debate.



If you step back, you will see that the debate is across the forums and across the internet.

 I understand your desire to keep snarky nasty gossipy ankle-biters . . . - Laramie Hirsch


"snarky nasty gossipy ankle-biters"

Sounds more like something a pillow-biter would say than an ankle-biter.  Wasn't Hirsch speaking scoldingly of men being effeminate?  Yet this gαy-speak is attributable to him...

Hirsch is simply a weasel. A weasel for wanting to gag sedes and bash them. A weasel for expressing something to the effect of being turned off by FE yet making his hare-brained forum rule-changing suggestion on FE. A weasel for his ass-kissing gαy-ass wording directed to Vox. A weasel for having a blog to talk about things that he knows as much about as a random homeless dude. I suggest he rename his blog from Hirsch Files to Rambling Amateur Musings of a German Jєω.

Btw--I still laugh so hard that I fear hurting myself at the very thought of Hirsch having a blog.


Words from a holy man of God.   :smile:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 27, 2013, 04:10:26 AM
Okay.  Back for a minute.  So, we have this...

Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: 2Vermont
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont
Because allowing only anti SV posts is soooooo a debate.



If you step back, you will see that the debate is across the forums and across the internet.

 I understand your desire to keep snarky nasty gossipy ankle-biters . . . - Laramie Hirsch


"snarky nasty gossipy ankle-biters"

Sounds more like something a pillow-biter would say than an ankle-biter.  Wasn't Hirsch speaking scoldingly of men being effeminate?  Yet this gαy-speak is attributable to him...

Hirsch is simply a weasel. A weasel for wanting to gag sedes and bash them. A weasel for expressing something to the effect of being turned off by FE yet making his hare-brained forum rule-changing suggestion on FE. A weasel for his ass-kissing gαy-ass wording directed to Vox. A weasel for having a blog to talk about things that he knows as much about as a random homeless dude. I suggest he rename his blog from Hirsch Files to Rambling Amateur Musings of a German Jєω.

Btw--I still laugh so hard that I fear hurting myself at the very thought of Hirsch having a blog.
Quote from: Mithrandylan
You're a funny guy, OHCA.  Insightful, too.  If we ever run into each other, drinks on me.


Need I really say anything?  I mean...calumny.  Just observe it here.  From the minds and through the fingertips and onto the keyboards of two sedevacantists.  It's no wonder everyone avoids bothering with this tiny ignorable and insulting minority.  

At this point, any kind of direct communication with OHCA and Mithry-the-Church-is-a-whore-land is impossible and useless.  I am glad that my inquiries into sedevacantism have drawn them out, that they have exposed their nature for all to see.  Of course, folks already knew they were rather unlikeable and nasty people, terrible examples of Catholics, and viciously blind to what others see in them.  (Mith's banning from SD can be cited on that one.)  But the last month has really put it on the table.  I've enjoyed it.

In fact, perhaps the last month has been more about the character of sedevacantists, rather than their arguments.

Quote
I still laugh so hard that I fear hurting myself at the very thought of Hirsch having a blog.


 :stare:

I also have the ability to text people.

Will the technological wonders of the 21st Century never cease?

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 27, 2013, 07:39:50 AM
Quote from: OHCA
Anyway, wonder what provokes sedes to be such assholes?  Could it be calling sedes schismatics?  I even saw one empty-headed post by another genius on FE last night asserting that sedes are protestant.  There is a general undertone by many who are not sede that sedes are simply wacky conspiracy theorists.



Truth.  And what else is truth is I could have written so many of those same ignorant (and yes, hateful) posts at one time.  Unfortunately, when you actually take the time to learn about the position and remove the bias from your heart, you actually start to see what it's really about.  I've said it before:  when I watch the debates here between sedeplenism and sedevacantism, SV seems to persuade me the most.

I think anyone who leans SV or is SV needs to work harder at not reacting to the SV hate (or ignore it completely when it's downright harassment).  It is hard not to respond with personal, sarcastic attacks because the anti-SV folks really are just making personal attacks also. They just think they are justified in doing so.  And to be fair, I think it happens because they just can't understand why anyone could possibly question the validity of a pope. I mean, he's the POPE! They think they are defending attacks against the POPE!  Like I said, been there done that.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Jaynek on October 27, 2013, 07:48:06 AM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch

In fact, perhaps the last month has been more about the character of sedevacantists, rather than their arguments.


That is ridiculous.  Sedevacantists don't all have the same character.  Some are very knowledgeable and/or polite.  Others are less so.

Drawing attention to the flaws of certain individuals, tells us nothing about the behaviour of SVs as a whole and even less about the truth of their position.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: OHCA on October 27, 2013, 10:09:39 AM
Jayne just earned what is as best I can remember her first up-thumb from me.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: OHCA on October 27, 2013, 10:20:39 AM
2Vermont,
I too was not initially accepting of the sede position.  I don't remember venomously lashing out as I would characterize what Hirsch does and some at FE.  But Myrna and Emerentia straightened me out with some of my questions that that in hindsight may have been somewhat lacking in politeness.

Btw-- where is Myrna?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on October 27, 2013, 12:30:41 PM
Quote from: OHCA
2Vermont,
I too was not initially accepting of the sede position.  I don't remember venomously lashing out as I would characterize what Hirsch does and some at FE.  But Myrna and Emerentia straightened me out with some of my questions that that in hindsight may have been somewhat lacking in politeness.

Btw-- where is Myrna?


I don't think I was ever nasty towards sedevacantism (except in my reaction to the Dimond Brothers).  However, I definitely thought it was a cult, crazy, home for conspiracy theorists, much like Protestantism, you name it I thought it or said it.  But that was months before I joined CathInfo.

Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 27, 2013, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont


I don't think I was ever nasty towards sedevacantism.



I wouldn't say I've been nasty about sedevacantism.  Only stridently, objectively, and vocally opposed to it.  
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Mabel on October 27, 2013, 02:49:53 PM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont


I don't think I was ever nasty towards sedevacantism.



I wouldn't say I've been nasty about sedevacantism.  Only stridently, objectively, and vocally opposed to it.  


You have not been objective.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: OHCA on October 27, 2013, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont


I don't think I was ever nasty towards sedevacantism.



I wouldn't say I've been nasty about sedevacantism.  Only stridently, objectively, and vocally opposed to it.  


Do you believe that it would be possible for the Church to survive a period of sedevacantism?  If not, why not?
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 27, 2013, 02:58:22 PM
Quote from: Mabel
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont


I don't think I was ever nasty towards sedevacantism.



I wouldn't say I've been nasty about sedevacantism.  Only stridently, objectively, and vocally opposed to it.  


You have not been objective.


You're right.  I have not been objective.  I've been objectively opposed.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: LaramieHirsch on October 27, 2013, 04:38:49 PM
Quote from: OHCA
Quote from: LaramieHirsch
Quote from: 2Vermont


I don't think I was ever nasty towards sedevacantism.



I wouldn't say I've been nasty about sedevacantism.  Only stridently, objectively, and vocally opposed to it.  


Do you believe that it would be possible for the Church to survive a period of sedevacantism?  If not, why not?


OHCA, I answer you back at this thread, since I only want to keep any discussions of sedevacantism at the Crisis subforum.  

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=27397&min=220

Remember, this thread is about "the possiblity of FE Closing, and JayneK's potential of becoming a moderator there."

I be checking in later.

-LH
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Matthew on October 28, 2013, 09:00:21 PM
Quote from: Mithrandylan
I noticed something very interesting.

Here is a link to the stats (pageviews, new posts, new topics, new members, etc. on a monthly basis):

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?action=stats

What I'm really paying attention to is the column of new posts.  You'll see that beginning in May of 2009, going all the way to March of 2013, FE was getting more than ten thousand (and averaging, at a cursory glance, probably fifteen thousand) new posts per month.  There is one anomaly in that stretch of March 2012, though I think that can be explained easily by Lent.  

After March of 2013, there is a marked decline (spanning seven months, until now) in new posts.  Definitely not an anomaly, but a clear trend.  What happened in March of 2013?  Well, I know that's when I was banned.  But that's when Francis was elected.  Is that also when Impy "came out?"  In any event, when April 2013 rolled around, FE was on a clear down trend and has continued thus.

Now, the actual page views have not suffered, though I think that can easily be owed to FE being discussed here often over the last six months.


It says they've had 349 users on "today" -- does that count guests? Right now, FE has 290 guests and 22 users online.

The number of members that have logged in within a 24-hour period is probably the best metric for the activity level of a forum.

For example, CathInfo usually has around 180+ members online within a 24-hour period.  (I have a script that tells me this, complete with a list of which members!) It's hard to count or even consider "guests", since they could be anything from a search engine to a bot in China.
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: jen51 on October 28, 2013, 09:06:33 PM
I'm sure the decrease in FE activity has meant the increase of other forums activity.   :cheers:
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: St Magnus on November 04, 2013, 08:47:31 PM
For a while now, I've suspected Vox has some sort of fascination with the occult along with an unhealthy leaning toward the mixture of Catholicism and paganism.

I see she is now using Black Elk as her avatar. He was a native American that continued to perform pagan rituals even after his conversion to Catholicism.

This thread is telling..
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3461867.0.html

pray for her
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: 2Vermont on November 05, 2013, 04:28:30 PM
Quote from: jen51
I'm sure the decrease in FE activity has meant the increase of other forums activity.   :cheers:


I've noticed a huge number of threads started by Vox herself.  That can't be a good sign (for FE).
Title: FE Might Close - Or Jayne Might Become a Moderator There
Post by: Devekut on November 05, 2013, 09:03:34 PM
She posts these controversial topics on the FE facebook page too. Like, she asked everyone to watch this 20/20 video about this person with make brain and female DNA. She asked the FE FB members to post whether or not this is a male or female. She is trying so very hard to get all trads on her homo loving, pseudo science side. Not one person replied or gave the topic s thumbs up.