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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Malleus 01 on October 01, 2013, 08:42:16 PM

Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Malleus 01 on October 01, 2013, 08:42:16 PM
I felt it interesting to relay this information here. Last Sunday in a  sermon Bishop Pivarunas Confirmed as fact that 2 CMRI Priests performed a successful exorcism this past spring at the request of a mother whose daughter had been tormented for over two  years. This was not the purpose of his sermon ,  but given in relation to the overall subject matter of angels since it was the Feast of St Michael the Archangel.

I found the following facts interesting:

 The Novus Ordo with the permission of the local Archbishop had been attempting to exorcise for over two years without success.

The Mother contacted CMRI out of desperation

It Took 8 days for 2 CMRI Priests.

The Holy Water Blessed at Easter was extremely effective in actual use.

The signs of  possession were unmistakeable - Protrusions from the skin =  super human strength - knowledge beyond the limit of the person (inthis cas a young girl , Tongues - Cursing  etc.

The Bishop made it clear that "We do not like to perform exorcisms"  That they are only done where "absolutely necessary" and where the possession is "unmistakeable"

Finally, it demonstrates once again - that Traditional Catholicism is True Catholicism.

Pax Vobis



Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Luker on October 01, 2013, 09:39:20 PM
This is certainly interesting.  I have often wondered if any of the traditional groups performed exorcisms.  I wonder if the SSPX has ever done them?


Luke
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Malleus 01 on October 01, 2013, 09:48:49 PM
Quote from: Luker
This is certainly interesting.  I have often wondered if any of the traditional groups performed exorcisms.  I wonder if the SSPX has ever done them?


Luke


I believe they could even if they havent or havent let it out.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Hobbledehoy on October 01, 2013, 11:12:30 PM
Holy Mother Church supplies jurisdiction, but (I believe) with the CMRI there is a more profound and wondrous mystery at work:

The CMRI Fathers are totally consecrated to Our Lord through His Blessed Mother, whom the Eternal Father has given the power and mission to crush the head of the infernal serpent and all its minions. She has been predestined to her role of Victress over Satan and the curse of the serpent recorded in the Book of Genesis testifies to this.

Those acquainted with the revelations of Ven. Mary of Jesus of Agreda know that Our Lady fulfilled this office as Protectress of Holy Church after Our Lord's Ascension and the Mission of the Holy Ghost by various victories and wonders kept hidden from many until Our Lady revealed these to her predilect servants in latter times.

Those Priests of this day who are consecrated as slaves of Jesus through Mary, according to the spiritual doctrine of St. Louis-Marie, have been given extraordinary powers in the spiritual order insofar as they have faithfully observed with the utmost rigor of self-abnegation and the selfless generosity of soul the arduous ascetical programme outlines by the same St. Louis-Marie.

Our Lady and her Angels were there with those Priests to deliver that poor girl: the great Mother of God and Mother of the Church never ceases to be solicitous for the welfare of those children entrusted unto her by her Crucified Son in the person of St. John, when He decreed unto this greater and second Eve "Ecce, filius tuus" (S. Joann. cap. xix. 26).


(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d89/platonic123/Eva-Ave_zps0db6ae29.jpg)
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: songbird on October 02, 2013, 02:50:30 PM
Bishop Pivarunas has been given the rosary of Juacinta, the  child at Fatima.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Malleus 01 on October 03, 2013, 08:52:24 PM
Quote from: songbird
Bishop Pivarunas has been given the rosary of Juacinta, the  child at Fatima.


True I have seen it.  Hobbledehoy has a very eloquent way of writing , it is a pleasure to read the contributions

Pax
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Malleus 01 on October 03, 2013, 08:58:58 PM
Quote from: songbird
Bishop Pivarunas has been given the rosary of Juacinta, the  child at Fatima.[/quote

He also has an Agnus Dei from Pope Leo XIII from a Papal  paschal candle
 
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: MyrnaM on October 03, 2013, 10:40:52 PM
Father told me about it and since Bishop made it known, Father told me those Protrusions from the skin resembled horns.  It was most scary just hearing about it.  

Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on October 03, 2013, 10:56:21 PM
In the presence of a Very Holy Bishop from a Long, Long time ago.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Matto on October 04, 2013, 01:42:55 PM
I have heard that Bishop Mckenna had performed exorcisms, but this is the first time I have heard that the CMRI did exorcisms. I am glad it worked. I have heard that exorcisms required jurisdiction from the hierarchy, though it seems in this case supplied jurisdiction works.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Spork on October 05, 2013, 11:26:11 AM
Where and when did this happen?
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Meg on October 05, 2013, 12:34:30 PM
Quote from: Matto
I have heard that Bishop Mckenna had performed exorcisms, but this is the first time I have heard that the CMRI did exorcisms. I am glad it worked. I have heard that exorcisms required jurisdiction from the hierarchy, though it seems in this case supplied jurisdiction works.


Regarding Bishop McKenna, there are at least two episodes of a TV show called Hauntings that I used to watch, where he was featured in a reinactment of two exorcisms that he performed. An actor portayed him. One, if I recall correctly was for a house (expelling demons), and the other was on a person, if I recall correctly.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Malleus 01 on October 06, 2013, 12:51:33 PM
He revealed it in a Sermon.  It happened last Spring and two CMRI priests were involved.  He did not reveal any more details as the Exorcism up until  then was a rumor several of us had heard about.   The subject matter of the sermon was regarding the roles of Angels - therefore he didnt dwell on that.  But the fact that
Bishop Pivarunas revealed it as true , thats good enough for me.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Spork on October 07, 2013, 08:01:36 PM
Quote from: Malleus 01
He revealed it in a Sermon.  It happened last Spring and two CMRI priests were involved.  He did not reveal any more details as the Exorcism up until  then was a rumor several of us had heard about.   The subject matter of the sermon was regarding the roles of Angels - therefore he didnt dwell on that.  But the fact that
Bishop Pivarunas revealed it as true , thats good enough for me.


I am not doubting the veracity. I am just wondering out of curiousity.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Hobbledehoy on October 07, 2013, 11:17:41 PM
Quote from: Spork
Quote from: Malleus 01
He revealed it in a Sermon.  It happened last Spring and two CMRI priests were involved.  He did not reveal any more details as the Exorcism up until  then was a rumor several of us had heard about.   The subject matter of the sermon was regarding the roles of Angels - therefore he didnt dwell on that.  But the fact that
Bishop Pivarunas revealed it as true , thats good enough for me.


I am not doubting the veracity. I am just wondering out of curiousity.


The one of the CMRI Fathers may mention it during this week's annual Fatima Conference at Spokane, WA. If someone attends and hears the CMRI Fathers talk about it during one of the conferences, perhaps they can tell us.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Neil Obstat on October 08, 2013, 01:44:21 AM
.

A friend told me that Fr. Dominic Radecki, CMRI, from Queen of Angels
Catholic Church in Newhall, CA, gave a sermon a few weeks ago in
which he described his involvement in doing a recent exorcism.  I don't
have any of the details beyond the part that it was rather intense, and
that there was a lot of cursing and other conspicuous signs of demonic
possession.  He also said that the full-strength holy water that was
blessed during the Easter Vigil ceremony (or is it Holy Saturday?)
was most effective, and that the devil laughs at holy water sometimes
when it is blessed in a less thorough manner.  The ceremony that Fr.
Radecki uses for that blessing is lengthy and most precisely executed
at the altar rail in front of the packed chapel.  There is a lot more to
know about holy water.

The ritual that the Eastern Churches use to bless holy water is very
edifying.  I used to think they rather go "overboard" with the details,
but in retrospect, perhaps that all amounts to something special.  

Curiously, protestants deny that there is any such thing as holy water.  
One can only wonder how many of them are possessed!  Maybe they
are and don't even know it -- why would the devil care, when he's
got them hooked in a false religion where there is no salvation?

That the Novus Ordo diocese had been trying but had failed was not
among the points my friend told me about.  But maybe he just skipped
that part.  It seems the CMRI don't do this very often, though, so it
does not look like it would have been a different case, especially since
it took two priests.  I don't know who the other priest was.

My question was also about jurisdiction, as that has been a bone of
contention in discussions in regards to other exorcisms in years past,
from what I've heard.  The word was that without the local ordinary's
permission, no one should be attempting exorcism, as it can be very
dangerous, even life threatening, without such jurisdictional clearance.

On the surface, it would seem impossible that  A)  the CMRI priest
and/or bishop would have asked the local Newbishop for permission,
PLUS,  B)  even if they had done so, it's rather difficult to imagine
the local Newbishop granting such permission.  Any thoughts on that?

There was a news item a few months back saying that Fr. Gabriele
Amorth, the Vatican exorcist, had become "fed up" with all the failed
attempts in recent years using the "updated form" of exorcism, and
consequently, he declared that the Novus Ordo priests are being
instructed to abandon that form and to revert to the tried-and-true
form from before Vat.II, for one reason:  it works.

I've heard of iron frame beds being bent by unseen forces, and
that wood frame beds are not allowed because they usually just
break to pieces.  The crucifix the priest holds must have the Corpus
of Jesus attached with real nails, driven through WOOD, or else the
devil will laugh and ridicule the cross as a FAKE.  The most common
crucifix for effective use is the 8-inch St. Benedict Crucifix, which
has inlaid ebony set in a metal framework, and a St. Benedict
Medal behind the head of Our Lord.  The Medal itself, properly
blessed, is the most powerful solid sacramental for exorcisms, on
par with first class relics of the great saints, such as St. Therese of
Lisieux, Pope St. Pius X, St. John Marie Vianney, St. Philomena, etc.
It would seem that authentic relics of the True Cross would be so
as well, but I haven't heard anything about that.

Since the CMRI deny the validity of episcopal consecrations done
after 1968, and Holy Orders after 1969, one is left with unanswered
questions.  To presume that "supplied jurisdiction" is sufficient might
be the occasion for a very serious mistake, it would seem.  But again,
I am not passing any judgment, just looking for answers.  In any
case, serious exorcisms in serious cases are not something to be
treated with ANY DEGREE of cavalier attitude.  If there was ever a
thing that is SERIOUS BUSINESS, this is IT.

I'm not an expert in this, just saying what I have heard from others
who are more informed.  I heard Msgr. Perez describe an exorcism
he was a WITNESS to some months ago, in which it was successful,
and in which he received personal confirmation of the power of the
devil in that case, but I'm not going to describe it since there are
members here who will howl and whine over the validity of Orders.

I only wonder why jurisdiction is so lightly treated?  This applies to
the Menzingen-defenders, likewise, for +Fellay has said that unless
SSPX priests practice obedience to him, their sacraments will not
be valid, specifically regarding absolutions, which is closely related
to exorcism.  When questioned on this he as been typically silent,
and meanwhile, we all know he has no jurisdiction.


Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: AlligatorDicax on October 09, 2013, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat (Oct 8, 2013, 2:44 am)
There was a news item a few months back saying that Fr. Gabriele Amorth, the Vatican exorcist, had become "fed up" with all the failed attempts in recent years using the "updated form" of exorcism" [....]  I heard Msgr. Perez 
  • describe an exorcism he was a WITNESS to some months ago, in which it was successful, and in which he received personal confirmation of the power of the devil in that case, but I'm not going to describe it since there are members here who will howl and whine over the validity of Orders.
The "validity"?  Hah!  Had you missed the posting where someone already asserted, nearly 2 weeks ago (albeit in another topic 
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Hobbledehoy on October 09, 2013, 10:52:23 PM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
To presume that "supplied jurisdiction" is sufficient might
be the occasion for a very serious mistake, it would seem.  But again,
I am not passing any judgment, just looking for answers.  In any
case, serious exorcisms in serious cases are not something to be
treated with ANY DEGREE of cavalier attitude.  If there was ever a
thing that is SERIOUS BUSINESS, this is IT.


The Church does supply jurisdiction for exorcisms provided the Priests are valid and fulfill the requirements found in the Rituale Romanum.

If the contrary view is taken, then one would logically question whether Catholic traditionalist Priests can validly bless Rosary beads, invest the faithful with Scapulars, &c., since blessings and investitures into Confraternities (such as in the case with the Brown Scapular) rely solely on the possession of jurisdiction. There are, moreover, some blessings specially reserved for certain Sacramentals to certain Religious Orders, such as the Holy Rosary (Dominicans), the Stations of the Cross (the Franciscans), &c., so that these could not be done by just any Priest in the past.

A Priest ordinarily would have needed the requisite faculties granted by the local Ordinary or Religious Superior to validly perform any blessing, and for certain blessings an Apostolic indult or dispensation would have been required. Since this is no longer the case for the sedevacantist Priest, the Church supplies jurisdiction for each Sacramental in question.

An exorcism is not a Sacrament, but belongs rather to the category of Sacramentals, and if supplied jurisdiction suffices for blessings found in the Roman Ritual then it would suffice for exorcisms if the spiritual good of the faithful require it, according to the spirit of epikeia. However, in the case of exorcisms, the stringent requirements of the Roman Ritual are to be followed with unrelenting scrupulosity and not just any Priest should even be considered as a candidate for the role of exorcist. A Priest must have had many years of experience, extraordinary personal sanctity and probity of life, renown for exemplary conduct and sound doctrine, &c., to have been considered as a possible exorcist by the local Ordinary in the past.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Spork on October 10, 2013, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: Hobbledehoy
Quote from: Neil Obstat
To presume that "supplied jurisdiction" is sufficient might
be the occasion for a very serious mistake, it would seem.  But again,
I am not passing any judgment, just looking for answers.  In any
case, serious exorcisms in serious cases are not something to be
treated with ANY DEGREE of cavalier attitude.  If there was ever a
thing that is SERIOUS BUSINESS, this is IT.


The Church does supply jurisdiction for exorcisms provided the Priests are valid and fulfill the requirements found in the Rituale Romanum.

If the contrary view is taken, then one would logically question whether Catholic traditionalist Priests can validly bless Rosary beads, invest the faithful with Scapulars, &c., since blessings and investitures into Confraternities (such as in the case with the Brown Scapular) rely solely on the possession of jurisdiction. There are, moreover, some blessings specially reserved for certain Sacramentals to certain Religious Orders, such as the Holy Rosary (Dominicans), the Stations of the Cross (the Franciscans), &c., so that these could not be done by just any Priest in the past.

A Priest ordinarily would have needed the requisite faculties granted by the local Ordinary or Religious Superior to validly perform any blessing, and for certain blessings an Apostolic indult or dispensation would have been required. Since this is no longer the case for the sedevacantist Priest, the Church supplies jurisdiction for each Sacramental in question.

An exorcism is not a Sacrament, but belongs rather to the category of Sacramentals, and if supplied jurisdiction suffices for blessings found in the Roman Ritual then it would suffice for exorcisms if the spiritual good of the faithful require it, according to the spirit of epikeia. However, in the case of exorcisms, the stringent requirements of the Roman Ritual are to be followed with unrelenting scrupulosity and not just any Priest should even be considered as a candidate for the role of exorcist. A Priest must have had many years of experience, extraordinary personal sanctity and probity of life, renown for exemplary conduct and sound doctrine, &c., to have been considered as a possible exorcist by the local Ordinary in the past.


So in 1955, if Father O'Malley, a Benedictine, of Cleveland were asked to Bless Mary Sullivan's Rosary, he would have needed the proper dispensation from his Bishop?
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Miles Dei on October 17, 2013, 12:26:58 AM
    I posted in the Library forum Rev. Dominic Syzmanski notes about exorcisms entitled "The Truth about the Devil."   These notes were origninally were posted in 1973 in the Immaculata, the official publication of the St. Kolbe's Militia of the Immaculata aka the Army of the Immaculate Conception.

     These notes really are some of the best writings on the topic of exorcism in the Catholic Church written by a Franciscan Abbot.  Abbots are religious ordinaries who can perform solemn exorcisms using the Roman Ritual within the confines of their monastery or give the mandate to one of the priests under him to perform a solemn exorcism.

       I have heard over and over on Catholic Forums like CAF that "only a priest with the mandate of his Bishop can cast demons out."

       This is patently false.   Padre Pio never performed a solemn exorcism because he never had his Bishop's mandate to do so.  All of Padre Pio's exorcisms were minor or simple or rites of liberation.

      People should say that only a priest with the permission of the local ordinary may perform a public solemn exorcism, an official public (official) rite of the Roman Catholic Church.

      I understand all the enthusiasm concerning exorcisms.   But truthfully one has to be careful  because Christ said that not everyone who casts demons out knows Him.

      Bishop Emeritus Andrea Gemma goes even further citing examples of priests of little or no faith that the devil simply laughed at even though they had their Bishop's mandate to perform a solemn exorcism.

      I know priests who are faithful to the Vatican and the Pope who are exorcists and they have performed many exorcisms.

     I am not  a sedevacanist but  I certainly understand why one could be a sedevacanist.  I am studying the New Rite of Exorcism and I have read Fr. Amorth's comments on it.

     The New Book of Blessings came out and it seems to have done away with constitutive blessings, blessing that change the character of some object from the profane to a powerful sacramental.  

      Yes there are confused or ignorant priests and even some Bishops who just don't understand  the theology of the ministry of exorcism.   But there are Bishops and priests who do understand the theology of this ministry and they celebrate the Fullness of the Gospels daily.

      Yet, there are some, including clergy, that write and promote ridiculous statements because they either don't understand the theology of deliverance.  And many  Catholic laity then latch on to these strange notions that clearly deviate from the from what the Vatican puts forth.

      Only Jesus Christ can Save.  We must commit to Jesus Christ in sincere prayer for those including some clergy who are incredibly confused or ignorant concerning  the theology concerning exorcisms.

       I want all of you to know that one may after praying the Rosary pray Pope Leo's  famous  "Prayer Against Satan and His Apostate Hosts" as a matter of private prayer without violating Cardinal Ratzinger's famous letter written as Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith dated Sept. 29, 1985. Let me remind you Pope Leo wanted and instructed Catholics to pray the Rosary on the knees and then recite his famous prayer of exorcism.

       Today hardly a person follows the instructions of Pope Leo XIII concerning his prayer which was written for these very times.  

May the Peace of the Lord be with You and May Perpetual Light Shine Upon You,

Miles Dei

        PS.  I attend the Latin Mass as often as I can.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: MyrnaM on April 11, 2016, 03:55:36 PM
Bump...

 :incense:
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: McCork on April 11, 2016, 05:42:26 PM
This subject has nothing to do with jurisdiction.

There is no such thing as an "invalid" exorcism.

Nor is the effect of an exorcism intrinsically tied to other things the CMRI priests are doing religiously, etc.

It does have to do with having permission, so the exorcism might be sinfully performed by a priest and thus be "illicit", though it still can have its good effect.

Epikeia is what comes into play here. It means going against the letter of the law, but virtuously performing the spirit of the law by necessity. That necessity can only exist if the legitimate law giver is inaccessible and there is an immediate need.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Binechi on April 11, 2016, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: McCork
This subject has nothing to do with jurisdiction.

There is no such thing as an "invalid" exorcism.

Nor is the effect of an exorcism intrinsically tied to other things the CMRI priests are doing religiously, etc.

It does have to do with having permission, so the exorcism might be sinfully performed by a priest and thus be "illicit", though it still can have its good effect.

Epikeia is what comes into play here. It means going against the letter of the law, but virtuously performing the spirit of the law by necessity. That necessity can only exist if the legitimate law giver is inaccessible and there is an immediate need.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Binechi on April 11, 2016, 07:28:35 PM

Quote
This subject has nothing to do with jurisdiction.
 There is no such thing as an "invalid" exorcism.


In todays world to have Valid Priests who have the ability grace and strength to take on the devil in an exorcism is a big plus for us who are trying to live the Faith.  
What does that say for the "Sede vacante" position, I think a lot.
Having lived with Bishop McKenna for many years, and being considered a friend of him , attending his Mass s , I was piviy to what was going on around his circle, of which you never got from him. but from other sources.
Bishop Mc Kenna was a very holy Man, you would never know where he was , and usually found him in the Chapel praying all night, and fasting extensively before any serious exorcism.
He would take on the hopeless cases, of which no one else had any success with.  He wasn t 100 percent in all his endevors, but usually because the party wern t Catholic , or didn t want to live a Catholic life etc.

In this photo , this is a man who agreeded to be tied up, and go thru the exorcism, with a goup who brought him there.  He was put into a straight jacket, and tied to big eyelets in the floor beneath the pew.  When Bishop started his prayers , and routine, This nice gentleman became like a beast with all the foul mouth cussing etc. I ll leave it that.
The point , it takes a strong holy Priest to perform these, and they are very exhausting. Most go on for three or four hours.  We need to pray more for our Priests.
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Binechi on April 11, 2016, 07:52:55 PM
Bishop Mckenna
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on April 12, 2016, 01:20:34 AM
NJ school holidays (http://www.nj.com/education/2016/04/nj_approves_list_of_school_religious_holidays_1.html#incart_most-commented_hudson )After looking at the New Jersey school holiday list mostly of witchcraft and false religions, there is need of exorcists.  


http://www.nj.com/education/2016/04/nj_approves_list_of_school_religious_holidays_1.html#incart_most-commented_hudson
Title: EXORCISM performed by two CMRI priests
Post by: Incredulous on April 12, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
 
Never mind...