Author Topic: ELEISON COMMENTS CXCVI (April 16, 2011) : STAY AWAKE ! (Read 10614 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #75 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:24:19 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

While you slandered me twice within a few simple lines...of course my "blindness" is a simple truth of fact,

Saying that you can't see, or pretend not to see what's right in front of your nose isn't slander.

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right? That I "slander" anyone with whom I discourse is a simple truth of fact, right? But your slander of the SSPX is simple truth telling. And your slander of people like me who check your madness is simple truth telling as well. I'm glad we're all truth tellers. That makes me feel better.

You morally impugn the people who disagree with you. That's your MO.

Caminus · « **Reply #76 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:25:42 PM »

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You morally impugn the people who disagree with you. That's your MO.

What does "morally impugn" mean?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #77 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:28:16 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

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You morally impugn the people who disagree with you. That's your MO.

What does "morally impugn" mean?

You attack the moral character of the people who disagree with you.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #78 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:31:32 PM »

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Still, even Traditional Catholics are being tempted to doze off, not to say fall asleep. Here are two recent testimonies. The first is from a teacher in a Traditional school :-- "I feel awfully alone in the battle, not the battle with external enemies in the world, but the battle inside the Society of St Pius X, which is being waged with such subtlety that nobody seems aware of it. It is the same as it was in the mainstream Church in the 1960's, the same slow gradual shift in behaviour."

The second comes from an inside observer of today's Traditional Catholic scene in the USA :-- " It appears to me that Catholic militancy is declining. I see many Traditional Catholics, especially family fathers, accepting the ways of the world. The fight is no longer important to them. They are happy to have their beautiful Mass on Sunday, but on Monday send their children to public school. Each November they go out and vote for the lesser of two evils, watch (conservative?) Fox News and declare the (conservative?) Republican Party to be the answer to all of the world's problems. In my humble opinion this lack of militancy is becoming more and more pervasive in the Traditional Catholic world. Are we (the laity) returning to the same set of circuмstances that led to Vatican II ? Is the Sunday Catholic now the predominant majority in the Traditional movement ? I'm afraid that the answer to both of these questions may be, yes."

These two paragraphs really are salient.

Ethelred pointed out that there were no ordinations from Austria, Germany, or Switzerland last year at Zaizkofen.

Now that's a pretty serious problem. There is clearly a part of the SSPX apostolate that is in very bad shape, to say the least. Yet we see the leadership putting men like Krah into top positions.

Caminus · « **Reply #79 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:34:15 PM »

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Yes, let's say there's a new convert who says something one day like "Maybe Mary wasn't a virgin." Then someone says "Oh, she was, you have to believe that, it's a dogma." The first woman says, "Oops, sorry, okay she was a virgin."

The context of the quote was regarding Simony considered as 'heretical'. It had nothing to do with the notion of being in good faith.

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However, to say this is the case for a trained theologian and expert on the history of the Church like Benedict, that he is just innocently mistaken when he does things like praying facing Mecca, when we know that Modernists were warned about and these men like Ratzinger fit the bill for countless reasons, is manifestly ridiculous.

I've never claimed that they are innocently mistaken.

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Not to mention that the post-VII Magisterium contains numerous heresies and this is impossible, the Holy Ghost protects against that. Of course, you will pretend that you've never heard me saying this.

Here again is a major point that should be devoted to another thread. I've seen you state this repeatedly, your entire position rests upon it. But upon closer examination it doesn't hold for a couple of reasons, de facto not necessarily de jure.

Caminus · « **Reply #80 on:** April 17, 2011, 06:37:43 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Caminus
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You morally impugn the people who disagree with you. That's your MO.

What does "morally impugn" mean?

You attack the moral character of the people who disagree with you.

Right, whatever you say partner.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #81 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:10:47 PM »

So, how about those recent Eleison comments?

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #82 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:18:56 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Caminus
I deny I slandered you. On the contrary, you slander the SSPX daily. And you slandered me as well.

I'm not slandering the SSPX. I'm telling the truth about them.

Blind society defenders can't handle the truth - that's what it all comes down to - so they lash out at people who give it to them.

They have treacherously suppressed the Archbishop's sermon.

You slander everyone you debate with.

You know Tele, Bishop Fellay is responsible for much of this. How can you say the Society as a whole is bad when Bishop Fellay hasn't even said much since he got in trouble for his comment over the h0Ɩ0cαųst? And you don't think you slander them? Come on, you called them "wicked pharisees". Please explain to me how anyone who says the TLM and refuses to say the freemasonic Novus Ordo could be wicked. Even if they kicked you out of your chapel when they shouldn't have, that's not wicked.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #83 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:24:17 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Come on, you called them "wicked pharisees"

That was a reference to the lying people who kicked me out of church and the people viciously impugning my character.

Learn to read, and learn not to slander other people because of your inability to read. (which you have done before)

Learn to stick to the topic of the thread. You people just can't stop making everything personal.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #84 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:31:24 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
Come on, you called them "wicked pharisees"

That was a reference to the lying people who kicked me out of church and the people viciously impugning my character.

Learn to read, and learn not to slander other people because of your inability to read. (which you have done before)

Learn to stick to the topic of the thread. You people just can't stop making everything personal.

What do you mean by "you people". Are you implying that the people on CatholicInfo like attacking someone's personal character? Trust me, I've been reading carefully. I even went back to the first page of this thread, and it looks like Caminus did not actually mention you being kicked out of your chapel directly, but rather pointed out that you have issues with the SSPX. Then you brought your personal issue up again. Why do you like talking about it so much? That won't do you much good on an SSPX forum full of people who know that you'd have to show more evidence than what you describe to prove the SSPX (or any other religious order, for that matter) is a cult.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #85 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:32:21 PM »

A kind of person you will sometimes meet among traditionalists are the kind of people who are obsessed with the faults of others - they make it seem like they want to help other people overcome their problems, but in fact, they have an obsession with finding out information about other people in order to gratify their perverse self-righteousness.

I am not so trusting of the seal of confession in SSPX chapels either. I'm not going to trust a priest who lies to my face to keep the seal of the confessional. Ever.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #86 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:36:57 PM »

Ok, and who here is obssessed with finding and pointing out the faults of other people? And what lie did the priest tell you?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #87 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:37:06 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

What do you mean by "you people".

The people I"m referring to as "you people" know exactly who they are and what they're doing. They have a personal animus against me that is not based on any Christian sentiment.

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Are you implying that the people on CatholicInfo like attacking someone's personal character? Trust me, I've been reading carefully.

No you haven't. You're going back a long way to dredge up the "wicked pharisees" quote then you claim I applied it to the entire SSPX. That's the same thread where you accused me of hitting on 14 year olds and stalking, remember? I sure hope you're not a typical SSPXer, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's not the way their minds work.

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I even went back to the first page of this thread, and it looks like Caminus did not actually mention you being kicked out of your chapel directly, but rather pointed out that you have issues with the SSPX.

He attacked my motivations for posting Bishop Williamson's column by saying it was motivated by personal issues and then mocked the suggestion that this thing I posted had anything to do with my situation. Then he kept pressing for details. His whole strategy was to divert the thread to me personally, because that's his MO - personal attack.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #88 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:39:24 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Ok, and who here is obssessed with finding and pointing out the faults of other people? And what lie did the priest tell you?

He pretended ignorance of many things, pretended not to countenance my story. I know absolutely the man is a malicious liar. Without shame. That's the sick thing about hypocritical priests. The complete absence of shame. There's absolutely no fear of God there.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #89 on:** April 17, 2011, 08:40:10 PM »

I never claimed you applied the "wicked pharisees" quote to the whole SSPX, but you're using what the parish priests did to say the SSPX is a cult. That's the only reason I brought it up. Why do you keep bringing up how I thought you dated a 14 year-old? I apologized for that. In case you haven't noticed, I'm being more reasonable about this to avoid what happened when you and I got in an argument about this on the original thread.