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Author Topic: Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests  (Read 1109 times)

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Offline curiouscatholic23

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Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
« on: October 03, 2011, 10:57:05 PM »
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  • This question is intended for sedevacantists.

    Say you lived in a town where there were no valid catholic priests. By valid I mean priests who were ordained in the traditional right by TRUE catholic bishops.

    You are in a state of mortal sin and you are dying.

    There are no true catholic priests but there is a Novus Ordo priest, as well as a greek orthodox schismatic priest.

    Do you:
    -Confess to the NO priest
    -Confess to the Greek Orthodox Schismatic priest
    -Confes to neither since neither are true catholic priests


    (This hypothetical has always fascinated me, because are we to consider the NO priests "schismatics" or do they cease to be priests at all like the Anglicans???)


    Offline LordPhan

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 10:59:44 PM »
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  • According to Canon Law, which I don't have on me, the Church gives Jurisdiction to Schismatic Priests for the Sacrements to be given to Catholics in danger of death.

    It has to be a Priest mind you, it can't be some Proddy "Minister".


    Offline curiouscatholic23

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 11:01:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    According to Canon Law, which I don't have on me, the Church gives Jurisdiction to Schismatic Priests for the Sacrements to be given to Catholics in danger of death.

    It has to be a Priest mind you, it can't be some Proddy "Minister".[/quote

    so the greek orthodox priest would be ok in that situation since we know 100% that their priests are valid???

    Are we basically admitting that the eastern schismatics are "more catholic" than the Novus Ordo?

    Offline Baskerville

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 11:27:24 PM »
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  • The Orthodox. Because to use your words the orthodox schismatics are more Catholic than the NO.

    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 08:09:42 AM »
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  • @Baskerville:

    Please don't refer to the Eastern schismatics as 'Orthodox'. They were never referred to as such before the arrival of the Novus Ordo.

    I suppose my vote would have to be for the Eastern schismatic priest, but that question is a lot like 'if you have to die anyway, what kind of gun do you want used to finish you off?'

    I would get my closest friends (my family would NEVER do it for me) to drive, bus or fly a traditional priest in to see me ASAP. I know it would be a big undertaking, but, after all, it IS my mortal soul we're discussing.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar


    Offline Anna1959

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 09:38:50 AM »
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  • The one thing you're all forgetting is that Eastern schismatic priests are forbidden BY THEIR OWN CANON LAW to administer their sacraments to anyone who is not a member of the "Orthodox" church.

    I've wondered what to do in such a situation too. I was told as a last resort make an Act of PERFECT Contrition.
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.

    Offline LordPhan

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 12:15:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anna1959
    The one thing you're all forgetting is that Eastern schismatic priests are forbidden BY THEIR OWN CANON LAW to administer their sacraments to anyone who is not a member of the "Orthodox" church.

    I've wondered what to do in such a situation too. I was told as a last resort make an Act of PERFECT Contrition.


    If a Priest refuses extreme unction onto a dying man he is alot more then a schismatic. Are you sure it is not just ordinary law you're refering to?

    Offline s2srea

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 12:25:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stephen Francis
    @Baskerville:

    Please don't refer to the Eastern schismatics as 'Orthodox'. They were never referred to as such before the arrival of the Novus Ordo.


    Thats a bit silly to me. Common English considers the Eastern schismatics as 'Orthodox'; we are speaking 'common English', right? We are not officials in the Vatican; just simple lay people.  Yes, they are schismatics but there's nothing wrong with using the term Orthodox, without saying 'schismatic' each and every time. If you want to, hey, go for it. :wink:


    Offline LordPhan

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 02:34:06 PM »
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    Can a traditional Catholic go to confession to a Novus Ordo priest?

    It would certainly be valid to go to confession to a priest who still celebrates the Novus Ordo Mass, provided that the penitent were assured of the doctrinal orthodoxy of the priest, his intention of doing what the Church does, and his use of the correct formula of absolution. It would furthermore be permissible in a state of necessity, such as when a person is dying and no traditional priest can be found.

    However, it is not easy to have the assurance of a valid absolution, given the fact that the post-Conciliar Church consistently downgrades the reality and gravity of mortal sin, the benefits of confessing venial sins, the graces to be obtained from frequent confession, and the necessity of doing penance. Very often souls who have felt the urgent need to go to a Novus Ordo priest have come to me afterwards in confession, doubting the validity of their confession to this priest, on account of his trivializing of their sins.

    Furthermore, I do not hesitate to strongly recommend against going to confession to such a priest, even when there is an assurance of a valid absolution. A penitent does not go to confession simply to receive the absolution of his sins. He has the desire to receive all the effects of the sacrament, including the direction, and if need be reprimand of the confessor, growth in the love of God and in sanctifying grace, a firmer purpose of amendment and the satisfaction of the temporal punishment due to his sins. All this is only possible if he sees in the confessor a judge, a teacher, and a physician. It is to guarantee these full effects of the sacrament of Penance that the Church supplies jurisdiction so that the faithful can ask any priest to hear their confessions, for any just reason (canon 2261, §2, 1917 Code and canon 1335 of the 1983 Code).

    Manifestly it is not possible to have confidence in the guidance of a priest who compromises with modernism by celebrating the New Mass, even if he otherwise appears orthodox. Neither his judgment as to the reality of our contrition, nor his instruction as to the gravity of our sins, nor his remedies for the ills of our sins can be depended upon. The supernatural vision of Faith will necessarily have been undermined by the humanism and naturalism of the New Mass and the spirit of Vatican II. Our souls are much too precious to place in the hands of those who lack conviction.

    Consequently, outside case of danger of death, it is preferable to make an act of perfect contrition, and to wait until one can open one’s soul to a traditional priest that can be trusted.  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]

    Offline Sigismund

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    Eastern schismatics vs. NO priests
    « Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 06:09:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anna1959
    The one thing you're all forgetting is that Eastern schismatic priests are forbidden BY THEIR OWN CANON LAW to administer their sacraments to anyone who is not a member of the "Orthodox" church.

    I've wondered what to do in such a situation too. I was told as a last resort make an Act of PERFECT Contrition.


    Many Orthodox priests will in the case of someone who is dying, though.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir