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Author Topic: Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?  (Read 1269 times)

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Offline Charlemagne

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  • I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I believe it's Catholic teaching that we are to love our country. But lately I've come to the conclusion that I want America to be brought to her knees - figuratively and literally. The fools who run this country - and don't believe the lie that it's "We the People" - are greedy, pompous, arrogant, zionist cretins who care only about themselves and their personal interests. America involves herself in needless foreign wars and conflicts, prints fake money that has no real value, and forces her God-fearing citizens to live under tyranny - ironically, the very tyranny from which today we are supposedly celebrating freedom, Independence Day.

    Speaking of Independence Day, should we celebrate it? The Irish in me says yes, because the colonists broke away from tyrannical England, and no one of Irish ancestry would argue against that normally. The Catholic part of me, however, hesitates to celebrate it because this new republic, I believe, was a creation of Satan, as I think many of us are starting to realize (in my case) or have known for a long time. I think this is a difficult question for many faithful Catholics. It's almost as if a book titled "The Catholic American Question" could be written just to examine the topic.

    Now, the first response you receive typically from so-called patriots (more like parrots) who defend 'Murika no matter what is, "Why don't you move somewhere else?" What a ridiculous response. As if people who feel the way I do wouldn't do just that if there were somewhere better to go. And that's part of the quandary: What to do? I protest this Godless creation in my own little ways. For example, I refuse to ever stand for or say the "Pledge of Allegiance." I refuse to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. My allegiance is to God and His one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church. Period. Besides, the Pledge is a lie. "One nation under God." Really? Unless God has somehow changed and now allows the murder of pre-born children and has decided that sodomites may now celebrate the sacrament of Holy Matrimony, this is hardly a nation that lives "under God." (Don't get me started on "God Bless America.") And the Pledge is also an (often unwitting) oath of allegiance to our government overlords, which is indoctrinated into children in public schools every morning. But as far as real change, what can be done? Vote? The process is rigged, and I refuse to vote simply for the lesser of two evils. Evil is evil. Join the political process? When you lie down with dogs, you get fleas. Moan and complain? THAT I can do! But seriously, prayer seems to be the only refuge remaining. And that's not a bad thing, of course, but are we to the point of just holding on and riding out the storm? It appears so.

    So, again, do you celebrate this day in any way if you're an American? I certainly hope BTNYC weighs in on this, as he always has an enlightening response.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline Matthew

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #1 on: July 04, 2015, 11:16:10 AM »
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  • You really missed something, regarding how we can protest.

    You can protest the most effectively and powerfully by exempting yourself from "The American Dream".

    Don't keep any money in the banks. Live on less. Pay less taxes. Be happy with other pleasures rather than materialism. Reject materialism. Pay as little interest as possible. Don't watch the mainstream media at all, unless you are inoculated against the errors they push. And even then, watch it only out of curiosity to see what they're trying to push on us. Go to alternative news sources. Reject the big corporations, which have merged with our government into a de-facto Fascist State (the merger of government and business is the essence of Fascism). Don't buy name-brand; those products are more expensive by X%, the same % that goes right to the Big Media for advertising. Don't support it! By living a reduce/reuse/recycle/share philosophy you deny them their money.

    Support fellow Catholics whenever possible -- IN EVERY CASE you get a chance. Support local rather than national brands. Big Corporations are a huge % of the problem today (guess who probably owns them?)

    Sock it to them EVERY WAY YOU LEGALLY CAN. And yes, that includes taking full advantage of any welfare and subsidies The Beast will give you. You're taking away from The Beast and giving it to Catholic Tradition. Don't talk about where The Beast got it from -- they are going to get it either way. Might as well help some large Trad Families to have more resources in the meantime.  Of course, every chance you get you must vote against such communist nonsense -- you can't vote for Obama or Hillary in hopes of getting the same/more government handouts. But since Welfare isn't going anywhere, might as well avail yourself of it if they think you qualify. NOTE: The system is actually skewed in favor of Trads at this time, since the larger your family, the more you can make and still qualify. Make sure to file your taxes each year, too -- large families will usually qualify for Earned Income Tax Credit and/or 1,000 tax credit per child.

    Almost everything in 2015 is set against big families -- except for the tax system, food stamps, and WIC. Property taxes are expensive, and all go to public schools. Full time jobs are rare. College education is almost prohibitively expensive. Houses are expensive, since everyone is programmed to
    pay for homes over a 30 year term. Etc. And the cost of health care -- need I say more? If there is ONE ounce of good we can take with all of the bad, I say we MUST take it!

    That free food from the government each month means you need to work less to get by each month. That time can be spent in some honorable pursuit -- studying, adding to your marketable skills, being present more to raise your children, helping the Church, or you can work extra and use the money to pay down debt and/or prepare for the future -- the list goes on.

    Remember, the existence of Welfare is the only reason our system is still functional (without collapse, riots, etc.) Just remember that. It's a package deal that THEY designed. You can't cherry pick parts of Reality 2015 and leave out other parts. It simply doesn't work.

    My grandmother was (and is) a staunch Republican. She watched the mainstream news, listened to Rush Limbaugh, etc. and was filled with bitterness at the thought of all those "welfare queens" (blacks) who got all that free money, food, health care, etc. She probably aged herself prematurely. She was often angry and always had a chip on her shoulder about this injustice.

    I won't become that. I don't believe in the two-party system at all. I reject both major parties. I won't let myself be consumed with pride OR frustration when faced with the welfare system. My philosophy is, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Take advantage of it for the sake of Catholic Tradition. Get while the gettin's good. It won't last forever. I'll have to live off my garden someday, I'm sure. I'm working to be prepared for that day.

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    Offline pat

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #2 on: July 04, 2015, 11:16:16 AM »
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  • good question.  

    there are many many days  I say "I wish I took the blue pill" (please refer to The Matrix)

    Do I miss the "illusion"? maybe...  but you can not go back and should not.

    for years I have not celebrated... just didn't.  now I wouldn't.  can't celebrate something that is not real.
    Patti

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #3 on: July 04, 2015, 11:44:53 AM »
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  • I do not really "celebrate" it. I'll have a cheeseburger or two, light some small fireworks (larger ones are illegal in my state) and that's it. That's how it's always been because I've never been patriotic and never will be patriotic. I recognize that all countries are deeply, deeply flawed and choose not to exalt one or the other.

    I can appreciate the United States for being a livable, seemingly together first-world country that is not a shoddily glued together mess of squalor 30 minutes away from total cινιℓ ωαr like some other parts of the world are - but that's really it.

    Next year, it's on a Sunday, which means we might as well not celebrate it at all.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #4 on: July 04, 2015, 11:51:53 AM »
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  • Use the day to spend time with your family and reflect on what truly makes a nation great.  

    Quote
    He who is faithful to God
    is faithful to his country and to his family,
    and the more the fear of God animates the citizens of a country,
    the greater and the more respected will the nation be.

    St. Frances Xavier Cabrini



    Quote
    Many people [in authority] oppose us, persecute us, and
    would like even to destroy us, but
    we must be patient.
    As long as their commands are not against our conscience,
    let us obey them, but when the case is otherwise,
    let us uphold the rights of God and of the Church,
    for those are superior to all earthly authority.

    St. John Bosco


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #5 on: July 04, 2015, 11:55:03 AM »
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  • Thank you for the response, Matthew. We do most of what you say. We do have money in savings, but I'm preparing to remove it and store it in a safe place. As for frugality, our family of seven is $2200 under budget each month, and our tax liability annually is near zero. (My wife runs a home daycare, including our own five children, so there are write-offs aplenty. And her food costs are reimbursed by The Beast. We save every cent of it.) Our annual  tax refund is approximately $4000. We haven't paid credit-card interest in nearly five years. We put nearly every purchase on the credit card just to get the bonus cash back, then pay it off every month. Our only debt is the house and my vehicle; the van was paid off long ago. We reinvest our savings into rental properties, mainly, with a good sum being socked away. Tradition gets its cut, too, of course. We take full advantage of this capitalistic society without being materialistic. For example, I just bought four new shirts - the first new shirts I've bought in nearly three years. We eat meals at home (my wife is an excellent cook). Yes, we eat out occasionally, but it's rare. (It's funny: We almost never complete a meal out without someone stopping to compliment our children's behavior. It's sad in a way, because it just underscores how far we've fallen as a nation when it comes to basic manners.) We don't have cable. We use MagicJack for phone service ($2.50 per month, roughly). And yes, our children are covered by Medicaid and we receive WIC, so we grab our share from The Beast. So, we're in this world ("'Murika") without being of this world. And I agree with you regarding The Beast: Grab EVERYTHING you can!
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline BTNYC

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #6 on: July 04, 2015, 12:23:16 PM »
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  • It gives me a few days off of work in the warm weather, during which I may or may not have a barbecue, and may or may not sit outside to enjoy some fireworks, but none of which is done in specific commemoration of this day. At no point do I tell my children that we're celebrating the glorious foundation of America, or the defeat of an oppressive tyrant or some such thing, and I do not fly (indeed, do not even own) an American flag.

    There was one part of your post, Charlemagne, that I found particularly insightful and relevant:

    Quote from: Charlemagne

    Speaking of Independence Day, should we celebrate it? The Irish in me says yes, because the colonists broke away from tyrannical England, and no one of Irish ancestry would argue against that normally. The Catholic part of me, however, hesitates to celebrate it because this new republic, I believe, was a creation of Satan, as I think many of us are starting to realize (in my case) or have known for a long time.


    I too am half Irish. And I've mentioned it in other threads, but whenever I speak of the prophecies of the Great Catholic Monarch to the Irish half of my family, they balk and show a distinct discomfiture. One even pleadingly queried "Couldn't these prophecies about a 'monarch' actually be referring to a Catholic elected official?" Hatred of British Monarchy has given the Irish a pathological mistrust and dislike of Monarchy per se, and, as Monarchy is the one and only form of civil government given official approval by the Catholic Church, I think that that's a particularly virulent pathology for any primarily Catholic ethnic / national group to suffer from.

    The Irish were the first Catholic national group to arrive en masse in America, and, despite a rocky start, were the first to assimilate, being, as they are, English-speaking and fair-skinned. Their blinding hatred of England gave them a skewed view of America as a friend merely for being their enemy's enemy. Better still, America had defeated the hated English at her very birth, and so I think good old fashioned schadenfreude, and a desire to partake vicariously in the defeat of an ancient nemesis who otherwise could never be vanquished, led to the Irish becoming Americanized too quickly, too uncritically. The Irish soon became master politicians in the US, and that includes clerics as well as laymen. A genuine spirit of gratitude at being allowed to be left alone and practice the Faith also pervaded, and the result was an embrace of the Masonic error of "religious liberty" which afforded them that peace. That peace came at a terrible price, namely the heresy of Americanism, the blame for which, I think, rests upon Irish Americans more than it does any other single group.

    Being half Irish and half Maltese gives one a pretty schizophrenic view of the English monarchy. The Irish half reviles them and hates them to the bloody core as a pack of empurpled murderers and oppressors sent from the pits of hell to plague the sons of Eire. The Maltese half regards them with admiration and gratitude as the (at least nominally) Christian crown that came to the defense of embattled Malta, rescuing our beloved homeland from the clutches of the godless Napoleonic French, who ousted the Knights, looted the Churches, and (literally) trampled upon the Blessed Sacrament.

    The truth, of course, lies somewhere in between. England was cruel to the Irish, and kind to the Maltese, for one and the same reason: political expediency. They were an heretical monarchy (I say "were" because I'm not sure if they qualify as Christian monarchs anymore, even in an heretical sense), but still a legitimate monarchy, with legitimate authority over their colonies, including the 13 in America. A just and licit overthrow of British authority over the colonies would have possible, if it were a Catholic one that wanted to establish the rights of the One True Church definitively in the New World. As it is, however, "taxation" does not meet the criteria for a just war, and the American Revolution was little different from other evil rebellions like the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution, in that it was motivated by the greed of a small, wealthy cabal, and imposed upon a largely unwilling populace (certainly the Catholics of the colonies were largely loyalists, as Charles Coulombe has pointed out).

    So, no, I do not celebrate the waging of an unjust war against a legitimate monarch for the establishment of the world's first Secular Masonic Republic. I do not feel any swell of pride over being a citizen of a nation which refused to acknowledge Our Blessed Lord in its Constitution, and which refused to amend that Constitution accordingly in 1863, even when the nation was torn in two and more in need of God's Grace than ever. Patriotism is a Catholic virtue, yes... a minor virtue. It is a good and natural thing to love the land where one grew up; to love what is local and familiar. There's a world of difference between that and celebrating a nation which, as a nation, has been one of the great forces for evil in the world in the modern age - the elevation of Sodomy to the level of matrimony being only the most recent and glaring example. Our duty as Catholic patriots is to pray for and work for the Catholic America that ought to be, not to celebrate the Jєω-serving, godless, Masonic America that is now and ever has been.

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #7 on: July 04, 2015, 12:33:34 PM »
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  • You never disappoint, BTNYC. There's nothing I can add. Thank you.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline OHCA

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #8 on: July 04, 2015, 12:48:11 PM »
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  • This is consistent with my sentiments on the matter:


    Offline Marlelar

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #9 on: July 04, 2015, 12:52:29 PM »
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  • I love my country but hate my government.

    I love my countrymen in general but I don't love them all for who they are as individuals.

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #10 on: July 04, 2015, 08:00:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I believe it's Catholic teaching that we are to love our country. But lately I've come to the conclusion that I want America to be brought to her knees - figuratively and literally. The fools who run this country - and don't believe the lie that it's "We the People" - are greedy, pompous, arrogant, zionist cretins who care only about themselves and their personal interests. America involves herself in needless foreign wars and conflicts, prints fake money that has no real value, and forces her God-fearing citizens to live under tyranny - ironically, the very tyranny from which today we are supposedly celebrating freedom, Independence Day.

    Speaking of Independence Day, should we celebrate it? The Irish in me says yes, because the colonists broke away from tyrannical England, and no one of Irish ancestry would argue against that normally. The Catholic part of me, however, hesitates to celebrate it because this new republic, I believe, was a creation of Satan, as I think many of us are starting to realize (in my case) or have known for a long time. I think this is a difficult question for many faithful Catholics. It's almost as if a book titled "The Catholic American Question" could be written just to examine the topic.

    Now, the first response you receive typically from so-called patriots (more like parrots) who defend 'Murika no matter what is, "Why don't you move somewhere else?" What a ridiculous response. As if people who feel the way I do wouldn't do just that if there were somewhere better to go. And that's part of the quandary: What to do? I protest this Godless creation in my own little ways. For example, I refuse to ever stand for or say the "Pledge of Allegiance." I refuse to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. My allegiance is to God and His one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church. Period. Besides, the Pledge is a lie. "One nation under God." Really? Unless God has somehow changed and now allows the murder of pre-born children and has decided that sodomites may now celebrate the sacrament of Holy Matrimony, this is hardly a nation that lives "under God." (Don't get me started on "God Bless America.") And the Pledge is also an (often unwitting) oath of allegiance to our government overlords, which is indoctrinated into children in public schools every morning. But as far as real change, what can be done? Vote? The process is rigged, and I refuse to vote simply for the lesser of two evils. Evil is evil. Join the political process? When you lie down with dogs, you get fleas. Moan and complain? THAT I can do! But seriously, prayer seems to be the only refuge remaining. And that's not a bad thing, of course, but are we to the point of just holding on and riding out the storm? It appears so.

    So, again, do you celebrate this day in any way if you're an American? I certainly hope BTNYC weighs in on this, as he always has an enlightening response.

    It seems to me that this country was founded on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. Late!y, I have been reading pope Leos encyclical on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. The freemasons, according to him, are enslavers of men with somewhat communistic values. If this is true, then it seems to me that this country is not truelly the land of the free. At least not everyone is free. Perhaps that freedom only applies to the Freemasons themselves along with other anti-religionists.


    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 11:54:39 AM »
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  • All power and authority is ultimately from God.  Is there a country on the face of the earth that is pure and free of all stain of immorality?  Yet, God permits power to be transferred from one ruler to another often by immoral means.  So we have no right before God to reject the authority of the country we were born in or emigrated to unless as St. John Bosco (see earlier post in this thread) says we are commanded to do something against God's Law.  Many Catholics saved their souls in worse circuмstances than what we are experiencing now.  But if we live off the land that enables us to save our souls, how can we be bitter about it?  Why shouldn't we take a day to thank Our Lord for giving us a country in which to save our souls?  If any of the wheat or wine that was used in the consecration on First Saturday was from the land of our country, why shouldn't we be thankful for that?  Isn't the more Catholic thing to be hesitant to criticize and quick to be grateful?  I understand the bitterness.  What with all the bad things happening in our country now it is hard not to be deeply concerned and disappointed.  But nevertheless, I will not apologize for putting out a flag and being thankful for all that this country has provided me.  I learned the Catholic faith on this soil.  I will do all that I can to help fight immorality but I will not call down fire upon my homeland.  We got the leaders we deserve.  Let those without sin cast the first stone.

    PS. Abraham asked God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah.  Let's have Abraham's attitude.

    Offline songbird

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #12 on: July 06, 2015, 02:37:39 PM »
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  • The French Catholics, won our freedom from England.  Thank God for them!

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Do You Celebrate Independence Day (and America in General)?
    « Reply #13 on: July 08, 2015, 07:33:34 AM »
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  • We celebrated God and Country.  We put a float together and decorated it with bunting.  Catholic homeschoolers made Rosaries, with prayer books and candy.  They rode on the float too with their parents.
    We placed a statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Our Lady of Fatima with Crucifix on a altar.  
    We sang Catholic Hymns and Patriotic Hymns.  We also prayed the Glorious mysteries too.  
    Four hundred Rosaries were handed out with prayerbooks and candy that day.  



    May God bless you and keep you