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Author Topic: Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?  (Read 8079 times)

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Offline the smart sheep

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If not, why?

the smart sheep


Offline parentsfortruth

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Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 08:46:44 PM »
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  • If you understand that Our Lady herself gave us the Rosary...

    If you understand that it signifies the 150 psalms in 15 decades...

    You see the utter and complete pride that was used by the Freemasons to add their "luminous" mysteries to an already complete devotion.

    How DARE JPII add to something Our Lady instituted through Saint Dominic?

    It's akin to Martin Luther adding to Our Lord's words in the Our Father with his, "For the kingdom, the power," et cetera.

     :barf:

    Disgusts me!
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 08:48:16 PM »
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  • What parentsfortruth said. JPII had no place to add a mystery. That's not the way Our Lady wanted it. So no, Traditional Catholics do not say the Luminous mysteries.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline the smart sheep

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 09:09:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    If you understand that Our Lady herself gave us the Rosary...

    If you understand that it signifies the 150 psalms in 15 decades...

    You see the utter and complete pride that was used by the Freemasons to add their "luminous" mysteries to an already complete devotion.

    How DARE JPII add to something Our Lady instituted through Saint Dominic?

    It's akin to Martin Luther adding to Our Lord's words in the Our Father with his, "For the kingdom, the power," et cetera.

     :barf:

    Disgusts me!


    Right when I heard the word "luminous" I thought of Freemason. Me and a close relative almost said it at the same time. But our NO Catholic friend's (who also go on and on about how bad the evil's of the freemasons ) were furious at us that we would think such a thing.

    I also didn't get one of the mysteries, the  Institution of the Eucharist. I didn't like the word Institution, why didn't they call it the Last Supper?

    I can answer that now - to avoid the TRUTH- the Sacrifice of the Mass.
     
    I'm with you.
    Thanks for your input.
    the smart sheep

    Offline Daegus

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 09:11:48 PM »
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  • The Rosary is a gift from God, straight from heaven, that God chose Mary to give to us. God did not give us the "Luminous" mysteries, even if there is nothing wrong in contemplating them. They are a John Paul novelty. They were given to us by the Blessed Pope John Paul II and have no place being said as part of the Rosary. If you wish to say it as an individual chaplet, there's not a problem with that, but the Rosary should remain unchanged, as all Holy things should.

    I'm sure that BPJPII's intentions weren't malicious, but the mere imprudence on his part (especially given that it is recurring) here is inexcusable. To suggest that the Rosary should have something added to it as if it weren't already perfect (given that it came from Heaven) is only one of the many symptoms of the second Vatican Council's apostasy.

    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra


    Offline Raoul76

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 09:40:03 PM »
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  • Daegus, you're a smart guy, don't fall into superstition.  If you think JPII is a real Pope, mistakenly, then you still don't have to go out of your way to call him Blessed.  You can also criticize him, as you have done.

    One of the main reasons so few are sedes is because of superstition, people are afraid that in case someone is the Pope, they don't want to go against him...  You can tell it's superstition when you read AngelQueen and they rapidly toggle between angry tirades against JPII and Ratzinger and cringing obsequious flattery of the "Holy Father," treating him as if he's traditional after all and is just afraid to act on it... You know they don't believe what they're writing but they think they have to say it, because they're superstitious.  

    In the 20th century, the Pope ceased to be a man and became sort of a numinous rock star that people blindly worship as if he were the Wizard of Oz.  That is not the right spirit.  You can criticize even a real Pope.  For instance, I routinely criticize Pius XII, I think he was maybe a terrible Pope -- a valid one, but terrible.  There is nothing wrong with having that opinion, even if God sees it differently, because He sees more...  That is just how I see it from my limited perspective.  Urban VI doesn't seem to be winning any popularity contests.  

    You can disagree with the Pope about politics, about his style and approach, whom he favors and disfavors, about any number of things.  What you can't disagree with him about is his teaching on faith and morals.  Yet lots of trads routinely disagree with JPII about that and still think he was Pope!  This is what happens when you let fear and superstition take over.  Everything turned on its head.  

     
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline the smart sheep

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 09:58:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Daegus, you're a smart guy, don't fall into superstition.  If you think JPII is a real Pope, mistakenly, then you still don't have to go out of your way to call him Blessed.  You can also criticize him, as you have done.

    One of the main reasons so few are sedes is because of superstition, people are afraid that in case someone is the Pope, they don't want to go against him...  You can tell it's superstition when you read AngelQueen and they rapidly toggle between angry tirades against JPII and Ratzinger and cringing obsequious flattery of the "Holy Father," treating him as if he's traditional after all and is just afraid to act on it... You know they don't believe what they're writing but they think they have to say it, because they're superstitious.  

    In the 20th century, the Pope ceased to be a man and became sort of a numinous rock star that people blindly worship as if he were the Wizard of Oz.  That is not the right spirit.  You can criticize even a real Pope.  For instance, I routinely criticize Pius XII, I think he was maybe a terrible Pope -- a valid one, but terrible.  There is nothing wrong with having that opinion, even if God sees it differently, because He sees more...  That is just how I see it from my limited perspective.  Urban VI doesn't seem to be winning any popularity contests.  

    You can disagree with the Pope about politics, about his style and approach, whom he favors and disfavors, about any number of things.  What you can't disagree with him about is his teaching on faith and morals.  Yet lots of trads routinely disagree with JPII about that and still think he was Pope!  This is what happens when you let fear and superstition take over.  Everything turned on its head.  

     


    Maybe they are not fearful or superstitious. Maybe they just don't know. There are a lot of hidden facts and it takes a lot of reading, asking questions, etc. They are so busy trying to put food on the table for 11+ children. All they can do is go to Church and if they don't here about these hidden truths in the homily  then they wouldn't  know.

    the smart sheep

    Offline Daegus

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 10:02:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    Daegus, you're a smart guy, don't fall into superstition.  If you think JPII is a real Pope, mistakenly, then you still don't have to go out of your way to call him Blessed.  You can also criticize him, as you have done.

    One of the main reasons so few are sedes is because of superstition, people are afraid that in case someone is the Pope, they don't want to go against him...  You can tell it's superstition when you read AngelQueen and they rapidly toggle between angry tirades against JPII and Ratzinger and cringing obsequious flattery of the "Holy Father," treating him as if he's traditional after all and is just afraid to act on it... You know they don't believe what they're writing but they think they have to say it, because they're superstitious.  

    In the 20th century, the Pope ceased to be a man and became sort of a numinous rock star that people blindly worship as if he were the Wizard of Oz.  That is not the right spirit.  You can criticize even a real Pope.  For instance, I routinely criticize Pius XII, I think he was maybe a terrible Pope -- a valid one, but terrible.  There is nothing wrong with having that opinion, even if God sees it differently, because He sees more...  That is just how I see it from my limited perspective.  Urban VI doesn't seem to be winning any popularity contests.  

    You can disagree with the Pope about politics, about his style and approach, whom he favors and disfavors, about any number of things.  What you can't disagree with him about is his teaching on faith and morals.  Yet lots of trads routinely disagree with JPII about that and still think he was Pope!  This is what happens when you let fear and superstition take over.  Everything turned on its head.  

     


    Raoul, sometimes I refer to Pope John Paul as Blessed, other times (read: most times) I do not. I don't see why it matters, it's merely a title (in this case I only used it to emphasize that I don't believe he was trying to be malicious). Anyways, I hesitate to say that he is not a Pope because that is a very serious charge to level against someone who is being purported to be the Supreme Pontiff. I simply have not studied the case against him well enough and weighed the objective evidence to say that he was not a true Pope. That is a charge that is so very serious that it cannot be dealt with lightly.

    I'm also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as we should. I do not believe that his intentions were to specifically destroy the Church, but at the same time,

    By the way, I am not afraid of criticizing John Paul's ways. I do believe I have referred to him as a false ecuмenist, like Mother Teresa, and I've said that he was a horrible man. Hell, even Benedict the XVI is a terrible Pope. He is rather toothless in his instruction, and he moves at a turtle's pace for no conceivable reason. It's like he's battling his own conscience in pushing traditional Catholic teaching, yet at the same time, he wants to maintain his predecessor's status quo and not have people get mad at him for not opening up his arms to sing Kumbaya with them. (Bit of a run-on sentence there)

    Anyways, I think you get the point. It has nothing to do with superstition. It has everything to do with being careful with what you say until you are absolutely positive.  
    For those who I have unjustly offended, please forgive me. Please disregard my posts where I lacked charity and you will see that I am actually a very nice person. Disregard my opinions on "NFP", "Baptism of Desire/Blood" and the changes made to the sacra


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 10:10:49 PM »
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  • No.

    Quote from: the smart sheep
    If not, why?


    There are several reasons, but...

    I cannot even remember all of the Illuminati Mysteries, but the first time I heard the list, it struck me that, as far the Gospel accounts relate, the BVM was not even present at some/all of them.  HeL-Lo-O!!!

    What kind of a man, acting entirely on his own without even pretending God told him to do it, ADDS to what God revealed?  :scratchchin:
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline LordPhan

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 10:15:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    No.

    Quote from: the smart sheep
    If not, why?


    There are several reasons, but...

    I cannot even remember all of the Illuminati Mysteries, but the first time I heard the list, it struck me that, as far the Gospel accounts relate, the BVM was not even present at some/all of them.  HeL-Lo-O!!!

    What kind of a man, acting entirely on his own without even pretending God told him to do it, ADDS to what God revealed?  :scratchchin:



    lol

    Offline TKGS

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #10 on: July 01, 2011, 07:07:02 AM »
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  • The Luminous Mysteries brought me to traditional Catholicism.

    I had bought a short biography of St. Dominic for my children to read for school.  After buying it, the book didn't make it into the school boxes and sat around the house for a few months.  One cold day, my wife was bored and picked it up to read.

    Very soon afterwards, the announcement was made of the Luminous Mysteries.  I was estatic and told my wife that we would have to incorporate these new, and wonderful (they were, after all, wonderful because John Paul the Great had given them to us) mysteries into our (largely non-existent) prayer life.  My wife asked one question:  "Who gave them to him?"

    I re-read the article in the diocesan paper and told her I didn't know and I guessed that he came up with them himself.  My wife replied, "Why should we pray new mysteries invented by a man when the Blessed Virgin herself gave the ones we already have to St. Dominic?  If what we have is good enough for Mary, why do we need to add more?"

    Well, I began to research this question and I was convinced I would find a very good explanation as to the historical issues surrounding the Rosary and why this change would be perfectly acceptable in an historical setting of development.  I began the search on a medium that was pretty new to me at the time:  the internet.

    I read dozens of articles about why the Luminous Mysteries were great and wonderful and how they were a great gift to the Catholic Church, but the only reason any of the articles gave for this was because they were given to us by the great and wonderful Pope John Paul II.  I then stumbled upon an article from The Remnant newspaper that went in a whole new direction.  The article started off saying that the author hated to be criticle of yet another action by the pope, but went on to be very critical of the Luminous Mysteries from an historical and theological point of view.  I suddenly had no answer for my wife and was beginning to doubt my initial enthusiasm.

    When I finally did find websites that loved the new mysteries and defended them from an historical point of view, they essentially explained that the reception of the Rosary by St. Dominic was nothing more than a pious myth.  They explained how the Rosary had changed over the centuries and how its original creation was based on Muslim prayer beads and its original purpose was to provide a devotion for illiterate peasants who didn't know the bible.

    The more I researched, the more I discovered that many of the recommended changes in the Rosary were changes originally proposed by Bugnini, the creator of the New Mass.  I also saw how the Luminous Mysteries completely upset the historical flow of the Rosary and, once again, change for the sake of change was being foisted upon the faithful from on high.  

    The Luminous Mysteries are not evil, per se.  They are simply not part of the Rosary.  If one wants to pray the Chaplet of John Paul 2, that's fine, but no traditional Catholic should be saying them in place of the Rosary.  However, I would no more say the Luminous Mysteries than I would sing Martin Luther's hymns at Mass (which, by the way, is common in the Novus Ordo).


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #11 on: July 01, 2011, 07:48:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    The Luminous Mysteries brought me to traditional Catholicism.


    That is wonderful, really.  Life is full of surprises and God can and does use all sorts of means to achieve His designs.

    Quote
    I discovered that many of the recommended changes in the Rosary were changes originally proposed by Bugnini.


    Interesting tidbit.  Not exactly a shock, but very interesting...  Thanks for sharing it with us.

    Quote
    The Luminous Mysteries are not evil, per se.  They are simply not part of the Rosary.


    Exactly.  They are real incidents from the life of Our Lord, so there cannot be anything bad about the incidents or meditating upon them.  However, as you say...
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #12 on: July 01, 2011, 07:57:37 AM »
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  • I don't like the word "luminous" . . . reminds me of Lucifer.

    In private I always only pray the sorrowful, in public I pray what the public is praying.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #13 on: July 01, 2011, 08:10:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    My wife asked:  "Who gave them to him?" ... "Why should we pray new mysteries invented by a man when the Blessed Virgin herself gave the ones we already have to St. Dominic?  If what we have is good enough for Mary, why do we need to add more?"


    She sounds like a good woman :)

    Again, thanks for sharing your story with us, sir.  In early 1999, I "discovered" that there had been changes in the Mass only because I started reading books to better understand the only 'Mass' (the NOM) I knew up to that point.  The books I got were from TAN and spoke of things I had never seen or known about.  That got me wondering about what it was like before, although I was not 'suspicious' when I started to 'investigate' the changes.  From there, the proverbial snowball grew at an exponential rate...and I have never been back to the NOM.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Jaynek

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    Do Traditonal Catholics say the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary?
    « Reply #14 on: July 01, 2011, 09:22:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    I don't like the word "luminous" . . . reminds me of Lucifer.

    In private I always only pray the sorrowful, in public I pray what the public is praying.  


    Lucifer is Latin for light bearer - "lux, lucis" means light and "fero" means bear or carry.  It is used as a title for Christ too and appears in the Vulgate in II Peter 1:19 , although the Douay Rheims translates it as morning star. Christ is the true Light while Satan deceptively appears as a creature of light.  Lucifer is also the Latin name for the Morning Star, i.e. Venus.  

    The word "luminous" comes from the Latin "lumen, luminis" which also means light.  Both "lumen" and "lux" are related to each other, going back to the same Proto Indo-European root that our word "light" comes from.

    I used to pray the Luminous Mysteries before I became more traditional.  The mysteries themselves are edifying because they are events from the life of Christ.  Like Myrna, I still will pray them when with others doing so.  For example, I have prayed the Luminous Mysteries at pro-life demonstrations.