Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Do as they say...  (Read 623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Trinity

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3233
  • Reputation: +183/-0
  • Gender: Female
Do as they say...
« on: September 25, 2006, 10:43:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I was thinking that 2,000 years ago the pharisees, etc, had seized the religious leadership in Israel, just as they have now in Rome.

    They started the synogogue because before them it was the Temple. So now I'm confused. Did Our Lady stay at the synogogue? Did Joseph and Mary take the baby Jesus to the synogogue to presented to the Father? Etc, etc. Did Jesus study the talmud? Etc, etc.  
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline antyshemanic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 580
    • Reputation: +10/-0
    • Gender: Female
    Do as they say...
    « Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 11:46:38 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • hi Trinity,

    The story is in Luke 2.
    Jesus spent most of his life in Galilee,they went to Judea at certain times of the year for the feasts as was the custom.

    The talmud was more 'oral'  at that time. So no I don't think he studied it.But evidently he knew what it was by referring to it as 'traditions of the elders'.


    Offline thecolorandthenoise

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 67
    • Reputation: +9/-0
    Do as they say...
    « Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 05:57:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Trinity
    Luke 2 says they went to the temple. So when did they get the synogogue in??? Is it only in Revelations it is called synogogue?


    St Matthew 12:9 - "And when he has passed from thence, he came into their synagogues."

    St Matthew 13:54 - "And coming into his own country, he taught them in their synagogues, so that they wondered and said: How came this man by this wisdom and miracles?"

    St Mark 1:21 - "And they entered into Capharnaum, and forthwith upon the sabbath days going into the synagogue, he taught them."

    St Mark 5:35 - "While he was yet speaking, some come from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying: Thy daughter is dead: why dost thou trouble the master any further?"

    St Luke 4:16 - "And he came to Nazareth, where he was brought up: and he went into the synagogue, according to his custom, on the sabbath day; and he rose up to read."

    St John 9:22 - "These things his parents said, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had already agreed among themselves, that if any man should confess him to be Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue."

    Acts of the Apostles 19:8 - "And entering into the synagogue, he spoke boldly for the space of three months, disputing and exhorting concerning the kingdom of God."

    Apocalypse 2:9 - "I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

    There's a bunch more. I think the word synagogue is used in the Douay Rheims over 40 times.


    Offline thecolorandthenoise

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 67
    • Reputation: +9/-0
    Do as they say...
    « Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 07:33:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Trinity
    I have a 1941 Bible printed by the Douay Bible House.  It too uses synogogue where you said it did.  Why is it "temple" in the childhood of Jesus and "synogogue" in his adulthood?  Or is the temple just in Jerusalem?

    Yes, it appears to be the case.   Hmmm.  Anyone have any other insights?

    Yes, there was only one Temple and that was located in Jerusalem. It was destroyed in A.D. 70 by the Romans. Synagogues were just meeting places where the faithful would assemble to pray and read from the Holy Scriptures. They started to pop up sometime after the Babylonian captivity if I recall correctly.

    Many of the early Catholics were Jews and used these buildings to preach the Gospel. Eventually the unbelieving majority of the Jews kicked the Christians out of their synagogues and Judaism became thoroughly "talmudized".

    Offline thecolorandthenoise

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 67
    • Reputation: +9/-0
    Do as they say...
    « Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 10:06:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Trinity
    So the synogogue was more of a reading and studying room, while the temple was the place of worship.  What is the difference between the synogogue then and the synogogue now, if any?

    You know, that's a very good question! I would be very interested in reading a study that contrasts the two in a point by point manner.


    Offline antyshemanic

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 580
    • Reputation: +10/-0
    • Gender: Female
    Do as they say...
    « Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 11:07:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I think 'originally' the words synagogue & church meant 'assembly' or 'gathering'.

    as the verse below.
    Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    one source:
    Many have suggested that the synagogue arose in the Babylonian exile as a response to the loss of the Temple as the center of Jewish religious life. Though the suggestion is reasonable, no direct evidence exists for its presence and the biblical passages cited (Ezek. 11:16; 14:1) are far from convincing. In addition, no mention of the synagogue is made in Ezra and Nehemiah, nor is any destruction of synagogues mentioned during the Maccabean revolt.
    The public reading of Torah is described in Nehemiah 8 and mentioned in 1 Macc. 3:48, but these assemblies are extraordinary public gatherings; we do not know whether these practices were regularly done. Some scholars suggest that the Hellenistic crisis during the second century b.c., in which there was a conflict among Jews over acculturation and fidelity to tradition, produced the synagogue as a mode of resistance to Hellenism, i.e., Greek culture and custom. Since the synagogue existed in developed form in the first century a.d., it is likely that it came into being in the two centuries preceding, but no direct evidence for it then exists.

    another source:
    The actual origin of the synagogue is lost in history. The consensus of opinion, however, is that the synagogue originated during the Babylonian Exile, beginning in 586 B.C., when deprived of the Temple, Jews would meet from time to time to read the scriptures. Whatever the exact origin, it is during the first century C.E., particularly after the destruction of of the Second Temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. that the synagogue emerges as a well established institution and the center of the social and religious life of the people.

    another source:
    By the first century, synagogues emerge as the central institution of Jewish life once the Temple is destroyed, a place where study, worship, meeting, celebration, and civic meetings take place. There were synagogues not only in Babylonia, but in Alexandria and throughout the Land of Israel, in places such as Dora, Caesarea, Nazareth and Capernaum (the last four are mentioned by Josephus). The Talmud tells us that, at the time of the Destruction of the Second Temple, there were 394 synagogues in Jerusalem alone.
    Once the Temple no longer stood, however, the worship service in the synagogue came to be a substitute for the sacrificial cult, an alternative means of serving God.Thrice daily services were instituted, with Shacharit, Minchah, and Ma'ariv featuring a long prayer called the Amidah (also called Ha-Tefilah -- "the Prayer" -- or Shemonah Esrei -- "the 18 benedictions).
    In its essence and most import function, however, the synagogue was a Beit Midrash, a House of Study. :reading:

    So my conclusion is that at the time of Jesus & the Apostles, synagogues were more houses of study (assemblies, gatherings) which the pharisees taught THEIR oral traditions with the torah to the judeans.
    The Temple was the main worship building until 70AD.  :pray:

    Offline Kephapaulos

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1565
    • Reputation: +369/-5
    • Gender: Male
    Do as they say...
    « Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 12:51:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Keep in mind that the synagogue is analogous to the the Mass of the Catechumens and that the Temple worship is like the Mass of the Faithful, the part where the Sacrifice actually takes place. The offering of bread and wine though comes from the todah sacrifice, which Christ offered in a unique and new way at the Last Supper, i.e. the first Mass.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16