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Author Topic: Divorce  (Read 4127 times)

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Offline Clearwater14

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Divorce
« on: November 11, 2014, 05:36:42 PM »
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  • It seems like the divorce rate is skyrocketing.  What justifies a divorce in the Catholic Church's eyes?  I know that divorce is permitted for adultery, but what actually defines adultery?  Is looking at porn or kissing another woman considered adultery? If so, does this justify a divorce. Is a one night stand considered adultery? What if your husband repents and asks for forgiveness? Should a wife forgive a one night stand? Sometimes adultery isn't black and white.  There seems to be many gray areas of adultery.  For example a husband that cheats over and over again has a bigger sin than a husband who does it just one time and regrets it.  Can you please explain what justifies divorce and when should a wife forgive her husband and stay married? Thank you!


    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 06:11:55 PM »
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  • Divorce is not allowed in the Catholic Church under any circuмstance. It is considered a mortal sin and this will never change because Christ Our Lord condemned it. Having said that, the Church sometimes does permit a "separation" or that the spouses cease to live together either temporally or permanently according to the spouses will. This must be done with the permission of the bishop and for extreme circuмstances ONLY. The "justifiable" reasons for Separation could include:

    1. Abuse (physical, mental, sɛҳuąƖ)
    2. Drugs / Alcohol
    3. Adultery
    4. Continuous failure to do one's duty as a spouse.

    Even if one separates from the spouse, he / she will continue being your husband / wife before the eyes of God and the Church regardless; and one is never allowed to re - marry again unless the spouse dies.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Divorce
    « Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 08:10:51 PM »
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  • Under certain circuмstances, if there's no danger of scandal, a merely civil divorce might be allowed, but NEVER in such a way that it would allow a false re-marriage.

    Offline Clearwater14

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    Divorce
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 08:24:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Divorce is not allowed in the Catholic Church under any circuмstance. It is considered a mortal sin and this will never change because Christ Our Lord condemned it. Having said that, the Church sometimes does permit a "separation" or that the spouses cease to live together either temporally or permanently according to the spouses will. This must be done with the permission of the bishop and for extreme circuмstances ONLY. The "justifiable" reasons for Separation could include:

    1. Abuse (physical, mental, sɛҳuąƖ)
    2. Drugs / Alcohol
    3. Adultery
    4. Continuous failure to do one's duty as a spouse.

    Even if one separates from the spouse, he / she will continue being your husband / wife before the eyes of God and the Church regardless; and one is never allowed to re - marry again unless the spouse dies.


    What is the definition of adultery?  This is what confuses me.  What if your husband attends strip clubs, watches porn and made out with a woman at a bar? Is this adultery? Is this serious enough to get an annulment?  What if he stopped doing these things and promises not to do them again? Does this change the decision for a divorce "Separation" being justified in the Catholic Church?

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Divorce
    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 08:32:54 PM »
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  • Are you Catholic?  


    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 09:00:57 PM »
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  • Divorce is not a "mortal sin" the church does not recognize it as dissolving a marriage.

    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 09:07:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Clearwater14

    What is the definition of adultery?  This is what confuses me.  What if your husband attends strip clubs, watches porn and made out with a woman at a bar? Is this adultery? Is this serious enough to get an annulment?  What if he stopped doing these things and promises not to do them again? Does this change the decision for a divorce "Separation" being justified in the Catholic Church?


    In short:
    Quote
    Adultery is defined as carnal connection between a married person and one unmarried, or between a married person and the spouse of another. It is seen to differ from fornication in that it supposes the marriage of one or both of the agents.
    see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01163a.htm

    Annulment is not divorce. An - NUL - ment = there never was a marriage, for some reason, such as one or both persons not free or able to make such a commitment.

    Annulment is tantamount to saying that a couple were never married in the first place.

    Adultery is not grounds for annulment.

    If a person repents of sin, you must forgive her/him.

    You should discus these issues with a traditional priest.
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    Offline Mabel

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    Divorce
    « Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 09:10:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Divorce is not a "mortal sin" the church does not recognize it as dissolving a marriage.


    Catholics don't believe in divorce as a breaking of bonds of a sacramental marriage. However, civil divorce or legal separation are sometimes necessary for legal reasons, which vary by state and usually pertain to the safety of one or more parties involved.

    I'm glad you made that distinction, Tiffany. I know quite a few traditional Catholics who have had to use the civil law in regard to their situation, nevertheless, they all consider themselves married and live a life of chastity according to their separation. They even pray for their spouses.

    It is important to distinguish civil law from Church law.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 09:18:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nadir

    1. Adultery is not grounds for annulment.

    2. If a person repents of sin, you must forgive her/him.

    3. You should discuss these issues with a traditional priest.


    I numbered your points, so I could respond to them.

    1. True

    2. This is not true.

    Remember, GOD always forgives. Man SOMETIMES forgives. Nature never forgives.

    The wronged spouse can choose to NOT forgive the adultery. I'm not a theologian (nor do I play one on TV) but I believe the wronged spouse can A) withhold the Debt indefinitely for this cause and/or B) pursue a separation. But once forgiven, it's forgiven (you can't go back on your decision when you're mad at your spouse later, for example) But I could very well be wrong about this. See #3. But regardless, marriage is for life. Separation doesn't mean you can marry again.

    3. This can't be emphasized enough. Don't get your solid Catholic marriage advice from the Internet!
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    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Divorce
    « Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 09:51:34 PM »
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  • In the old days, adultery was punished with execution.  

    Then, at that point, the victimized spouse could start anew.

    Seems much simpler that way.
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    Offline poche

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    « Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 10:53:39 PM »
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  • abandonment


    Offline Marlelar

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    « Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 11:51:44 PM »
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  • I always thought adultery had to be sex, am I wrong?  We can't know what goes on in someones heart or mind so committing adultery in the "heart", I assume, must be left to the judgement of God.

    Sounds like an issue for a good priest to sort out.

    Marsha

    Offline Dolores

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    Divorce
    « Reply #12 on: November 12, 2014, 07:52:36 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Divorce is not allowed in the Catholic Church under any circuмstance. It is considered a mortal sin and this will never change because Christ Our Lord condemned it. Having said that, the Church sometimes does permit a "separation" or that the spouses cease to live together either temporally or permanently according to the spouses will. This must be done with the permission of the bishop and for extreme circuмstances ONLY. The "justifiable" reasons for Separation could include:

    1. Abuse (physical, mental, sɛҳuąƖ)
    2. Drugs / Alcohol
    3. Adultery
    4. Continuous failure to do one's duty as a spouse.

    Even if one separates from the spouse, he / she will continue being your husband / wife before the eyes of God and the Church regardless; and one is never allowed to re - marry again unless the spouse dies.


    This pretty much sums up Church teaching on the matter.  I quibble with a few points, however:

    It's not that divorce isn't "allowed," rather divorce is impossible.  The marital bond is for life; it's not that the Church simply forbids the bond from being broken, rather the bond cannot be broken except by the death of one of the spouses.

    I also am not sure about your statement that divorce is "considered a mortal sin."  Certainly getting a civil divorce and remarrying is the sin of adultery, but I do not believe that merely obtaining a civil divorce is necessarily sinful, it would depend on the circuмstances.  For example, if a man abandons his wife and family, and the wife obtains a civil divorce for financial reasons, and remains celibate, I highly doubt that the wife has committed any sin.

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    « Reply #13 on: November 12, 2014, 09:24:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
    Are you Catholic?  


    OP, if you're still there, are you Catholic?

    Offline Clearwater14

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    « Reply #14 on: November 12, 2014, 11:54:40 AM »
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  • Moderator: Since CathInfo has mixed company of all ages, I took out some of the explicit details.

    I am so happy to read all the responses to my thread. I will get down to the nitty gritty. My husband and I are both Catholic. We were married in the Catholic Church.

    Recently, I found out that my husband went to multiple strip clubs (touched stripper and had lap dances), was watching porn at home on his computer, chatting with ex girlfriends online from high school, went to lunch/dinner with female coworkers, and made out with another woman at a bar (Kissing & more). I am deeply saddened by all of this. I feel betrayed.

    As far as I know, he did not have sex with another woman. He denies having sex with another woman. He has stopped going to strip clubs and bars and he seems to be remorseful. He says he is very sorry. Currently, we are both in Catholic Marriage Counseling.

    I guess my question to you all is: Is this enough for grounds for a Catholic Canon Separation (Divorce)? Did my husband commit adultery on me? Is adultery only considered sex?

    In the Catholic Church's eyes, should I forgive my husband even if it through me into major depression? Or, does the Catholic Church see this as justification for a separation of the marriage?

    I am extremely saddened and disappointed by what my husband has done. However, we have been married for 20 years and I value marriage. I am deeply hurt by his choices and I am finding it difficult to forgive him and move forward. I still love him, but I am having trouble forgiving him and I am very depressed. My husband seems remorseful after he realized how much damage he has done to our marriage.  He said he did not view his behavior as cheating.  However, he does now.  Since I found out about what he has done he stopped going to strip clubs. He stopped having lunches and dinners with female co-workers. He stopped watching porn. He said he made very bad decisions. He said he still loves me, wants to work things out, and is sorry.  We are seeing a Catholic Marriage Therapist.  I have been diagnosed with major depression due to my husband's sinful behavior.  I have flashbacks of what he has done.  I am trying very hard to forgive and move forward. However, it has been very difficult, because trust has been broken.

    Please help me make the best decision. What would Jesus want me to do?

    Where does the Catholic Church stand on this type of situation?

    Thank you! God Bless.