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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: AnonymousCatholic on August 01, 2016, 11:38:46 PM
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There seems to be this misconception amongst Catholics that natural law is God's law. Now when I say Catholic I mean any and all who identify as Catholic. We often will hear someone argue against sodomy with "it's not natural" and if we analyze that statement we will find it is wrong. Natural law is the law of nature. Rules of the jungle. Anarchy. It's natural for me to raid an pillage neighboring villages for food if I'm starving. It is also natural for me to own slaves if I have the strength to conquer my fellow man. These things are natural law. Barbaric and counter productive to civilization. They are natural because they ensure my survival and humans are by nature survivalists. So if I'm merely interested in just my survival and the survival of my offspring I am following the law of nature by doing these barbaric acts. So we can't go throwing the term "natural law" around like a protestant throws around bible verses for God knows what. So what do we say when questioned about morality and moral law? Where does it come from? Morality comes from God because God is a transcendent being. His law transcends natural law and humans are obliged and capable to follow God's transcendent laws because we as humans transcend nature. We know God's transcendent laws are what are necessary for a functional society and that without them we would dissolve into our natural state of chaotic survivalism. Now when one talks about sodomy we don't want to admit this but it is natural. Sodomy is natural. Now before you all go get the queer spray let's also consider what else is natural. Smallpox is natural. Leprosy is natural. These diseases are natural, but they aren't healthy. Sodomy isn't healthy. Thus God made a law forbidding it for the tremendous health hazards and sins that come with that sin. Killing your neighbor isn't healthy for a society. It generally undermines friendly neighborhood relations and therefore divides the community and makes the city weak. Thus God made a law against it.
So in light of all this one must understand the danger of throwing around the term "natural law" when speaking of the justification of God's laws. Natural law and God's law are two very different things and must be treated as such otherwise you muddle the purity of God's productive laws and mix in the unproductive laws of nature. Whether or not you know the laws of God, if you follow them your society will prosper. Your society will survive. You transcend nature as a human and therefore follow transcendent law accordingly.
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Natural law is that moral law that does not rely upon revelation for its justification. It is a part of God's law because God is the author of all moral law.
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Natural law is that moral law that does not rely upon revelation for its justification. It is a part of God's law because God is the author of all moral law.
But without revelation how would one even know what morality is? It isn't natural to practice Christian charity. I have my own problems and got to focus on me. Why should I help the weaker one who will only hinder my survival?
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Natural law is that moral law that does not rely upon revelation for its justification. It is a part of God's law because God is the author of all moral law.
But without revelation how would one even know what morality is? It isn't natural to practice Christian charity. I have my own problems and got to focus on me. Why should I help the weaker one who will only hinder my survival?
Natural law is the law that is written in our hearts.
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AnonymousCatholic,
Given your errors regarding natural law, it seems you have never attended a catechism for adults. It is rather important for a Catholic to know what is natural law, which is not "the law of jungle", but the law written in our hearts.
Before the law of Moses and the law of the Gosepl, natural law was the only thing that allowed men to get saved. Of course, the gates of heaven were shut, as long as the Sacrifice of Christ had not been performed; but following natural law was the only way to get saved at the end.
See the article of the Catholic encyclopedia:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09076a.htm
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I would suggest looking the subject up in a reliable Catholic source before going off into these unstructured mental ramblings.
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AnonymousCatholic,
Given your errors regarding natural law, it seems you have never attended a catechism for adults. It is rather important for a Catholic to know what is natural law, which is not "the law of jungle", but the law written in our hearts.
Before the law of Moses and the law of the Gosepl, natural law was the only thing that allowed men to get saved. Of course, the gates of heaven were shut, as long as the Sacrifice of Christ had not been performed; but following natural law was the only way to get saved at the end.
See the article of the Catholic encyclopedia:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09076a.htm
What laws are written in our hearts if they aren't taught to us in childhood? If my parents raise me to believe survival is the utmost important thing in my life then that is what I will practice. There is no law written in our heart except for that of base survival. Thus God gave laws to the Israelites.
People before then I would imagine, were judged based on what they did and what they knew. How else can one be judged if not by what they knew and how they acted with what they knew?
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19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools
Romans 1:19-22
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Grab a coffee or monster and take your time and read this OP:
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/10/whose-nature-which-law.html?m=1
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Sodomy is natural.
[26]For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. ~ Romans 1: 26-27
Smallpox is natural. Leprosy is natural. These diseases are natural, but they aren't healthy.
Diseases are natural but they're ABNORMAL, hence they go AGAINST the NATURAL ORDER.
fαɢɢօtry is also abnormal and goes against the Lord's natural order.
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I read up on some catechism and feel quite foolish honestly. Apologizes for my... well... heresy.
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Grab a coffee or monster and take your time and read this OP:
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/10/whose-nature-which-law.html?m=1
Great read indeed.
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Sodomy is natural.
[26]For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. ~ Romans 1: 26-27
Smallpox is natural. Leprosy is natural. These diseases are natural, but they aren't healthy.
Diseases are natural but they're ABNORMAL, hence they go AGAINST the NATURAL ORDER.
fαɢɢօtry is also abnormal and goes against the Lord's natural order.
If someone disobeys the natural law then there are consequences.