Author Topic: Discord Amongst Traditionalist (Read 4020 times)

s2srea · « **on:** March 16, 2011, 01:24:42 PM »

It is so sad that there is so much bickering amongst traditionalists. Why is that? (no need to answer, speaking rhetorically) It seems that the majority traditionalist groups each believe that they are the light which will bring the Church back to her ways. They are so pompous and arrogant as to think their way only is correct.

Of course we all may have differing views, but in this time of crisis in the church, why are we not working together for the greater good of spreading the message of Truth? We don't need to compromise our dogmatic interpretations to do this! This is a, and the, Crisis of Crisis' the Church has ever been through.

It is frustrating that instead of using our belief's in the One True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as passed down through Tradition to unify ourselves, we use our stupid differences to cause schisms amongst each other.

Sorry just rambling! :ape: *hmmpf*

ora pro me · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2011, 01:34:01 PM »

Human nature. Spiritual families are not immune to human nature, just as physical families are not.

Name a family that doesn't have some bickering and I'll tell you that's either a family that you don't know well or they are blessed with calm, docile temperaments, or they are truly trying to do God's Will.

I pray every day for peace and unity among Catholics. It will come, but probably not until the Reign of Mary.

Pray for Holy Mother Church every day. It's one of the requirements in order to gain your indulgences, too.

s2srea · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2011, 02:15:16 PM »

Ora Pro Me-

I agree- I await Her reign !

Raoul76 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2011, 03:53:57 PM »

Because the SSPX and the sedes can't both be right.

Why was there bickering between Arians and Catholics? The SSPX are not heretics, like Arians, this is an entirely different situation. They have an irrational, emotion-driven viewpoint, which is not the same as heresy. But they are still deadly wrong about something that is deadly important.

The disagreements are necessary, but this doesn't rule out friendship or mutual respect, especially since the infiltration we're seeing is very subtle, in its way. It's not a light thing to say "The Pope is not the Pope." But come on -- what more do these guys have to do short of saying "Hail Satan" and openly having black masses?

Jehanne · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2011, 04:14:58 PM »

The Pope is not willing to unite the Church.

s2srea · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2011, 05:05:37 PM »

Quote

Because the SSPX and the sedes can't both be right.

Raoul- your response seem to imply I spoke only of SSPX vs sede's and that they are the only groups which exist and bicker? I know thats not the case, but in my experience, I've seen so much more than that. Its between sede's and SSPX, yes. But also SSPX vs independents, independents vs independents, sede vs sede, sede vs independents. Its much more than SSPX vs sedes- if it wasn't then I'm sure it would be SSPX vs "S" (capitol) Sede's.

Anyways, two weeks ago we had the reading of 1 Corinthians about faith hope and charity- charity being the most important of all- and is what many trads (layity, priest, and others) lack. If 'we' do not have charity (objectively) we will go to hell for it :thinking:

Lighthouse · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2011, 05:16:19 PM »

Quote

charity being the most important of all- and is what many trads (layity, priest, and others) lack. If 'we' do not have charity (objectively) we will go to hell for it :thinking:

Seems a bit sweeping. How many trads do you know?

s2srea · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2011, 05:43:22 PM »

Quote from: Lighthouse

Seems a bit sweeping. How many trads do you know?

Hey Lighthouse- A lot.

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2011, 06:12:15 PM »

I know alot of sedes, trads, and anyone with an incline to traditional Catholicism with charity actually. Have you seen Novus Ordos? I could almost say that the sweeping majority of them have not an ounce of love in them.

Your sweeping generalization is not accepted here.

PS. I don't like using the term "sede" because a sede is really just a traditional Catholic, but for clarity-sake on forum posts, I usually term us "sedes".

s2srea · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2011, 06:52:07 PM »

Quote

Your sweeping generalization is not accepted here.

Respectfully, you speak for yourself, as I speak for myself. I guess I've had the unfortunate circuмstance of seeing politicking amongst too many priests as of late (from different groups), and it's upsetting.

Emerentiana · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:15:02 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote
Because the SSPX and the sedes can't both be right.

Raoul- your response seem to imply I spoke only of SSPX vs sede's and that they are the only groups which exist and bicker? I know thats not the case, but in my experience, I've seen so much more than that. Its between sede's and SSPX, yes. But also SSPX vs independents, independents vs independents, sede vs sede, sede vs independents. Its much more than SSPX vs sedes- if it wasn't then I'm sure it would be SSPX vs "S" (capitol) Sede's.

The explination can be simple. We DONT have a good Holy Father to unite all. If the head is gone in a body, how can the body function.
These groups have evolved since the late 60"s. They huddle together for survival. After a while, because they dont mingle, they consider their opinions or ways the only truth out there.

Anyways, two weeks ago we had the reading of 1 Corinthians about faith hope and charity- charity being the most important of all- and is what many trads (layity, priest, and others) lack. If 'we' do not have charity (objectively) we will go to hell for it :thinking:

Emerentiana · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2011, 07:16:25 PM »

The explination can be simple. We DONT have a good Holy Father to unite all. If the head is gone in a body, how can the body function?
These groups have evolved since the late 60"s. They huddle together for survival. After a while, because they dont mingle, they consider their opinions or ways the only truth out there.

Sorry, my comments got pasted in the middle of a post!

TraceG · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2011, 08:42:22 PM »

A friend of mine pretty much said it best. She is a sedevacantist, but primarily she wants a valid Mass wherever it may be. SSPX, sspv, many independent priests, CMRI as far as I have seen are all valid Mass Sacrifices. Novus ordo is not valid...just another prottie hoopla

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:24:05 PM »

SSPX'ers know how to make proper distinctions and have a measured approach to the crisis, don't go to extremes, and are in touch with reality.

Dogmatic Sedes accept an absurd thesis as a fact, use it as a pretext to spew vitriol at the Pope and do whatever they'd like, fracture into a million independent sects, separate themselves from the Church as they are schismatic, argue from emotion and the warped Neo-Cath understanding of infallibility, ascribe to almost every kook-nutter conspiracy theory ever made, and show lack of Christian charity to most everybody, harboring bitterness and complete despair as they believe, de facto, that Christ abandoned His Church and left them orphans.

There can be no compromise between the two. The latter should be ignored. The Society and friends of the Society are the only ones carrying the true mantle of Tradition. The Ecclesia Deists have sold out for a piece of paper and their silence.

s2srea · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:36:01 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

SSPX'ers know how to make proper distinctions and have a measured approach to the crisis, don't go to extremes, and are in touch with reality.

Dogmatic Sedes accept an absurd thesis as a fact, use it as a pretext to spew vitriol at the Pope and do whatever they'd like, fracture into a million independent sects, separate themselves from the Church as they are schismatic, argue from emotion and the warped Neo-Cath understanding of infallibility, ascribe to almost every kook-nutter conspiracy theory ever made, and show lack of Christian charity to most everybody, harboring bitterness and complete despair as they believe, de facto, that Christ abandoned His Church and left them orphans.

There can be no compromise between the two. The latter should be ignored. The Society and friends of the Society are the only ones carrying the true mantle of Tradition. The Ecclesia Deists have sold out for a piece of paper and their silence.

Yep- well this is a prime example. And though this person shows a prime example of the mentality that I originally posted about. This of course isn't the only arrogant position out there, just a more prevalent one.

Its the classic statement by trads- the one that says, "We are pompous enough to think we are the ones who will bring back Rome to her glory days and not God. It will not come from the Top, but from us!"