This is from the Kelopi website. Now, I might have an idea how to debunk this whole argument, but I need some feedback.

Here it is:

Did St. Paul Pray With Other Religions?

Numerous sedevacantists try to point out that because the Pope went into a Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє, that makes him a heretic or an apostate.  St. Paul and the Apostles did the same thing  and clearly the Apostles are not considered heretics.

    Saint Paul addresses those in the ѕуηαgσgυє, not as worshipers of a false god, but as men who believe in the one true God: “. . . you that fear God, give ear” (Acts 13, 16).

 

    Our Blessed Lord says to all Jєωs, what He said to His Apostles: “You believe in God, believe also in Me” (Jn. 14, 1). {meaning Jєωs believe in the same God as Catholics}

 

    Saint Paul: “They came to Thessalonica, where there was a ѕуηαgσgυє of the Jєωs. And Paul, according to his custom, went in unto them; and for three sabbath days he reasoned with them out of the Scriptures.” (Acts 17, 1-2).

 

    “Paul and they that were with him . . . came to Antioch in Pisidia: and entering into the ѕуηαgσgυє on the sabbath day, they sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the ѕуηαgσgυє sent to them, saying: Ye men, brethren, if you have any word of exhortation to make to the people, speak” (Acts 13, 13-12; 17, 1-2;17, 10-11 ).

 

    “Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jєωs I became like a Jєω to win over Jєωs; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.” 1 Corinthians 9:19-23:

This is from the Kelopi website. Now, I might have an idea how to debunk this whole argument, but I need some feedback.

Here it is:

Did St. Paul Pray With Other Religions?

Numerous sedevacantists try to point out that because the Pope went into a Jєωιѕн ѕуηαgσgυє, that makes him a heretic or an apostate. St. Paul and the Apostles did the same thing and clearly the Apostles are not considered heretics.

Saint Paul addresses those in the ѕуηαgσgυє, not as worshipers of a false god, but as men who believe in the one true God: “. . . you that fear God, give ear” (Acts 13, 16).



Our Blessed Lord says to all Jєωs, what He said to His Apostles: “You believe in God, believe also in Me” (Jn. 14, 1). {meaning Jєωs believe in the same God as Catholics}

The religion of the Jєωs today, which is that of the Pharisaical тαℓмυdists of around 300-400AD, is not the religion of Israel nor Abraham nor Solomon. It, just as the Protestant religion is, is an invented religion of man.

Saint Paul: “They came to Thessalonica, where there was a ѕуηαgσgυє of the Jєωs. And Paul, according to his custom, went in unto them; and for three sabbath days he reasoned with them out of the Scriptures.” (Acts 17, 1-2).

From the Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 2. It was customary with St. Paul to open the Scriptures first to the Jєωs, (Acts xiii. 46.) and to argue with them from the law and the prophets. (Acts xxviii. 23.) St. Paul made use of the same passages of Scripture to convince the Jєωs, as Jesus Christ did on a similar occasion. (Mat. Polus.)

That is quite different than praying out of the тαℓмυd, no?  

“Paul and they that were with him . . . came to Antioch in Pisidia: and entering into the ѕуηαgσgυє on the sabbath day, they sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the ѕуηαgσgυє sent to them, saying: Ye men, brethren, if you have any word of exhortation to make to the people, speak” (Acts 13, 13-12; 17, 1-2;17, 10-11 ).

Again, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 14. . .... but here is rather meant the Jєωιѕн sabbath, as St. Paul went into their ѕуηαgσgυєs. And in this his first sermon to them, which St. Luke has set down, he speaks nothing that could offend or exasperate the Jєωs, but honourably of them, to gain them to the Christian faith; he commends in particular David, whose Son they knew the Messias was to be: and of whom he tells them, that God had given them their Saviour, Jesus. He mentions this high eulogium, which God gave of David, Psalm lxxxviii. 21. that he was a man according to God's heart, who in all things should fulfil his will, that is, as to the true worship of God; though he fell into some sins, of which he repented, and did penance. (Witham)

This is different then the False Ecuмenism practiced today, where it is forbidden, in practice, to convert the Jєωs from their 'perfidious' ways. Remember this is a time when Christianity and the Church were growing; he went not for the sake of converting them, not for mere prayer. Let the apostates sit on that for a while.

“Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jєωs I became like a Jєω to win over Jєωs; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.” 1 Corinthians 9:19-23:[/i]

Haydock COmmentary again:

Ver. 19. Free as to all. That is, whereas I was under no obligation to any man, yet I made myself the servant of all, &c. (Calmet)

Ver. 20. I became to the Jєωs as a Jєω. That is, upon occasions, not to hinder their conversion, I practised the ceremonies of their law; though I am not under their law, which is no longer obligatory, but only under the new law of Christ. (Witham)

Ver. 21. To them that were without the law. That is, to the Gentiles, who never were under the law of Moses. (Witham)

Ver. 23. How convincing is this and many similar texts against those who deny the merit of good works, and who would not have men to act with a view to any recompense, though rewards and recompenses are very frequently mentioned in holy writ. (Haydock)

Thanks S2rea. I was thinking also of the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, when all the remains of the Old Covenant disappeared. It could also be argued that the Jєωs of that time who did not hear a peep about Christ and who lived under the authentic Old Covenant did worship the same God. After the Temple and the priesthood ceased, the Old Religion became extinct and the so called "Jєωs" afterwards were worshiping a man-made god under the guidelines of the so callled rabbis and their uninspired тαℓмυd.

No prob bud. You bring up a good point as well, but I'm not too familiar with that- it'll take more reading. I don't know who thumbed you down for asking, but I'll go ahead an amend that now. I'm glad you're keeping the fight! Keep asking questions. Its good we help each other.

Quote from: Chus Brea

Thanks S2rea. I was thinking also of the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, when all the remains of the Old Covenant disappeared. It could also be argued that the Jєωs of that time who did not hear a peep about Christ and who lived under the authentic Old Covenant did worship the same God. After the Temple and the priesthood ceased, the Old Religion became extinct and the so called "Jєωs" afterwards were worshiping a man-made god under the guidelines of the so callled rabbis and their uninspired тαℓмυd.

No prob bud. You bring up a good point as well, but I'm not too familiar with that- it'll take more reading. I don't know who thumbed you down for asking, but I'll go ahead an amend that now. I'm glad you're keeping the fight! Keep asking questions. Its good we help each other.

Thanks, man. Pray for me

Remember too that Jesus of Nazareth could rightfully be called the God of the Jєωs too because He's part of the Holy Trinity.  The opening of the Last Gospel makes it clear that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.  I'm paraphrasing because I'm at work and don't have my books all opened in front of me...  

We don't rely on the Jєωs and their tribal history as much as the Jєωs like to think we do.  Jesus, through the Father, was a co-creator of the Israelites and handed the Law to Moses.  The Jєωιѕн people are traditionally just sacred satchel carriers.  Sure, they carried the bag for centuries but just like Our Blessed Redeemer told the Jєωs that God could raise children of Abraham from the stones at their feet, so too could God have designated any other people to prepare the way for the coming of the Lord.

That website, if it wants to make an argument against sedevacantism, should stick to issues closer to home in the Roman Catholic World and not unnecessarily promote the false grandeur of the Jєωιѕн people, who are really to be pitied.  I know they are haters and I know they've done much evil and will continue to do so but many of them should be pitied.  All of them should be prayed for.

Traditional Catholicism should not carry around the bag full of filth known as philo-semitism that is rampant in the novus ordo catholic world and is overbearing in the world of evanglical protestantism.

Remember too that Jesus of Nazareth could rightfully be called the God of the Jєωs too because He's part of the Holy Trinity.  The opening of the Last Gospel makes it clear that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.  I'm paraphrasing because I'm at work and don't have my books all opened in front of me...  

We don't rely on the Jєωs and their tribal history as much as the Jєωs like to think we do.  Jesus, through the Father, was a co-creator of the Israelites and handed the Law to Moses.  The Jєωιѕн people are traditionally just sacred satchel carriers.  Sure, they carried the bag for centuries but just like Our Blessed Redeemer told the Jєωs that God could raise children of Abraham from the stones at their feet, so too could God have designated any other people to prepare the way for the coming of the Lord.

That website, if it wants to make an argument against sedevacantism, should stick to issues closer to home in the Roman Catholic World and not unnecessarily promote the false grandeur of the Jєωιѕн people, who are really to be pitied.  I know they are haters and I know they've done much evil and will continue to do so but many of them should be pitied.  All of them should be prayed for.

Traditional Catholicism should not carry around the bag full of filth known as philo-semitism that is rampant in the novus ordo catholic world and is overbearing in the world of evanglical protestantism.

I thought that I could even live with Assisi and the New Mass and not consider the SV thesis. But the turning point for me was precisely the N.O Good Friday prayer for the Jєωs. I mean how could the Holy Catholic Church's universal discipline mandate to pray a heretical prayer every year? that even trumps the heresies these VII popes might have professed.

What amazes me the most is that even  some so called traditional catholics defend the prayer calling it merely an "ambiguous" prayer at best. It is NOT ambiguous, it is only ambiguous to those who want to force an orthodox interpretation on it.

The difference is in simple to understand english is that St.Paul went into
the ѕуηαgσgυє to attempt to convert the Jєωs. John Paul II and Benedict
XVI entered the ѕуηαgσgυє and did not attempt to convert the Jєωs,
but appears that he participated with their worship, and validated the concept
that the Jєωs old covenant is still in force.

Eggsactly. Few people remember that the very first thing the Apostles were sent to do was to convert the Jєωs. They were only sent to the Gentiles after the continued obstinacy of the (real) Jєωs. REAL Jєωs, Semitic descendants of Abraham, still exist and are our brothers, though they still need to be converted. Most "Jєωs" of today  however aren't even Semites, let alone descendants of Abraham.

Semites: Arabs, Syriac Christians (of Aramaic descent), Mhallami, many Jordanians (Moabites), Maronites, a handful of Africans (Shebans), and Maltese.

Jєωs: People of any race, ethnicity, color or creed who follow the modern "Jєωιѕн" religion.

Israelites: Actual real Jєωs.

There is no proof he was performing a "Jєωιѕн ritual" at all.bear in mind, until getting kicked outof temple, often CHristians would go to ѕуηαgσgυє and then break off for Eucharist and teachings of Christ, instructions,etc......It was not long before Christians started having their own seperate services..likely, prior to Paul converting and playing a leading role.....

your statement sums it up "I dont know how he prayed"...he did not attend ѕуηαgσgυє and pray as a Jєω.....recall that after the Cross, the Jєωιѕн religion was a dead letter......he might go and preach, call for conversions,etc....but he did not pray/worship as he did when he was an unconverted Pharisee......